Rafa Watch

[Kenneth]

And if someone said Kenny won the league with half of Rafa's squad, they would be correct, Kenny's achievement would still be appreciated and even loonies on the Internet wouldn't use as it as evidence that said person hated Kenny.

[Shanks]

So please do as he says. Thanks.

Oh the irony..

[Neil Young]

Of course, ive never once said otherwise! Doesnt make him immune to mistakes by default though. Which is why 99.9% of the forum were discussing who they wanted to be our next manager during the season.

What do you mean 'mistakes by default'? If they were someone else's mistakes, they're not his.

I think you're seriously overestimating the appetite for a change of manager. And 99.9% is simply wrong. That's one in a thousand didn't want change - well, there were quite a few of us who believed Benitez deserved at least another season. We understood quite clearly that, while he had made mistakes, he'd got us to within four points of the title the previous year and he was being undermined by the owners and the board acting in their own interests and against the interests of the fans.

It reached the point where people had to choose sides. The fact some chose the wrong side and some chose the right one is now history. It's the revisionism I can live without though.

[Vermilion]

It was a squad bought by Houllier ('fact'). For Carra to mention it is not adulterous. These are professional footballers/managers working together. They are not hormone riddled teenagers with romantic loyalties.

Really. I think you've been watching a different game to me then, because that's exactly how too many players come across.

[Chris]

What do you mean 'mistakes by default'? If they were someone else's mistakes, they're not his.

I think you're seriously overestimating the appetite for a change of manager. And 99.9% is simply wrong. That's one in a thousand didn't want change - well, there were quite a few of us who believed Benitez deserved at least another season. We understood quite clearly that, while he had made mistakes, he'd got us to within four points of the title the previous year and he was being undermined by the owners and the board acting in their own interests and against the interests of the fans.

It reached the point where people had to choose sides. The fact some chose the wrong side and some chose the right one is now history. It's the revisionism I can live without though.

It seems to be people like you wont admit Robbie Keane or Aquilani was a bad mistake because we were under Hicks and Gillett's ownership so it "doesn't count"

Good grief, you are such a pedant, I dont know why I bother. Last time I tried to discuss anything with you I got a load of psycho babble.

Loads of people wanted a change which is why were there was a huge thread on here with people suggesting all sorts of names, it was obvious we'd struggle to get anyone really good but people accepting or suggesting the likes of Roy Hodgson said it all about how bad we'd got. You can acknowledge Benitez ****ed up while also knowing Hicks and Gillett were evil. Who's fault was the Inter Milan failure? Revisionism indeed!

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=67274&highlight=manager

[Roboklopp]

What do you mean 'mistakes by default'? If they were someone else's mistakes, they're not his.

I think you're seriously overestimating the appetite for a change of manager. And 99.9% is simply wrong. That's one in a thousand didn't want change - well, there were quite a few of us who believed Benitez deserved at least another season. We understood quite clearly that, while he had made mistakes, he'd got us to within four points of the title the previous year and he was being undermined by the owners and the board acting in their own interests and against the interests of the fans.

It reached the point where people had to choose sides. The fact some chose the wrong side and some chose the right one is now history. It's the revisionism I can live without though.

Good sig too.

[Alex]

It seems to be people like you wont admit Robbie Keane or Aquilani was a bad mistake because we were under Hicks and Gillett's ownership so it "doesn't count"

Good grief, you are such a pedant, I dont know why I bother. Last time I tried to discuss anything with you I got a load of psycho babble.

Loads of people wanted a change which is why were there was a huge thread on here with people suggesting all sorts of names, it was obvious we'd struggle to get anyone really good but people accepting or suggesting the likes of Roy Hodgson said it all about how bad we'd got. You can acknowledge Benitez ****ed up while also knowing Hicks and Gillett were evil. Who's fault was the Inter Milan failure? Revisionism indeed!

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/show...hlight=manager

I don't think you can blame Keane on Rafa, it was hardly his choice of signing was it? Even if it was, he noticed the mistake and got shot immediately. Aquilani was probably a mistake in hindsight but, everyone loves a bit of that.

For what its worth I didn't want Rafa to go, but wanted something to change. There is a difference there. I also think even the most hardened Rafa fans can accept that he ****ed up a few times, hell even the man himself will admit that.

I don't think you can really blame the Inter thing on Rafa too, that's more to do with the clubs hierarchy. Moratti has a lot to sort out there. Jose ****ed the club up just enough to make himself look good. Look at the other two managers that haven't exactly set the world alight since. There on there 4th manager in 12 months. Hardly good going is it.

[Chris]

I don't think you can blame Keane on Rafa, it was hardly his choice of signing was it?

Are you genuinely serious?

I don't think you can really blame the Inter thing on Rafa too, that's more to do with the clubs hierarchy. Moratti has a lot to sort out there. Jose ****ed the club up just enough to make himself look good. Look at the other two managers that haven't exactly set the world alight since. There on there 4th manager in 12 months. Hardly good going is it.

Indeed, Moratti is far from blameless but equally taking the CL, League and Cup winners to 7th or whatever it was is hardly good either.

[Alex]

Are you genuinely serious?

Did you read the rest of the sentence, saying if it was his mistake he got shot straight away?

None of us know who signed him really do we?

[Chris]

Did you read the rest of the sentence, saying if it was his mistake he got shot straight away?

None of us know who signed him really do we?

This is sarcasm right? Rafa Benitez wanted and got Robbie Keane. There was suggestions he wanted Gareth Barry first then to get Keane after but we agreed a deal with Spurs so he got Keane first. Please, stop this crap its cringeworthy.

[Vermilion]

This is sarcasm right? Rafa Benitez wanted and got Robbie Keane. There was suggestions he wanted Gareth Barry first then to get Keane after but we agreed a deal with Spurs so he got Keane first. Please, stop this crap its cringeworthy.

You know this for sure how ? You see, i'm very much in the dark, i've heard nor seen any definitive evidence, just peoples opinion, and tbh, almost everything coming out from Anfield at the time of our last ownership is up for debate. so many lies and agendas, it's hard to know for sure wtf went on.

[Chris]

Hahaha this place is absolutely unreal. So Rafa didnt want Robbie Keane now? Didnt seem to mind parading him in a press conference all smiles and when he was upset the media would know about it.

[Alex]

This is sarcasm right? Rafa Benitez wanted and got Robbie Keane. There was suggestions he wanted Gareth Barry first then to get Keane after but we agreed a deal with Spurs so he got Keane first. Please, stop this crap its cringeworthy.

What exactly is Cringe-worthy? Me not knowing if Benitez wanted to sign Keane or not? Or that fact I like the guy and will defend it when people make assertions not based in fact, but heresy? You wrote there were 'Suggestions' well thats concrete proof of something if ever I have read it.

Dont jump down my throat and think you are superior because of 'Suggestions'

[Kenneth]

What do you mean 'mistakes by default'? If they were someone else's mistakes, they're not his.

I think you're seriously overestimating the appetite for a change of manager. And 99.9% is simply wrong. That's one in a thousand didn't want change - well, there were quite a few of us who believed Benitez deserved at least another season. We understood quite clearly that, while he had made mistakes, he'd got us to within four points of the title the previous year and he was being undermined by the owners and the board acting in their own interests and against the interests of the fans.

It reached the point where people had to choose sides. The fact some chose the wrong side and some chose the right one is now history. It's the revisionism I can live without though.

That's just wrong. Why was it a case of choosing sides? The view of the manager and view of the owners was not intrinsically linked in the way you suggest, pick your favourite etc. I was in favour of rafa leaving for a few reasons. The football wasn't doing it for me. Odd selections and a bizarre approach to substitutions are examples. Also, we didn't have much money, and rafa's later signings wasted much of the money we had. And the owners weren't budging (unless you're saying you saw the coup coming) and rafa clearly couldn't work with them. The infighting was only adding to our problems. To make it sound like people either favoured rafa or the owners is revisionism itself.

[Vermilion]

Hahaha this place is absolutely unreal. So Rafa didnt want Robbie Keane now? Didnt seem to mind parading him in a press conference all smiles and when he was upset the media would know about it.

Even if he'd had a player forced on him, would you expect him to come out and tell everyone at the press conference, come on, a bit of reality please.

Tbh, as i stated in my post, i don't know the truth, not sure anyone does, except the involved parties, so to me, no opinion is more 'cringeworthy' than the other.