Ozan Kabak

[Irishnev]

Surely at the moment the obvious pairing is Kabak and Phillips.

IMO with what we have available at the moment I think Kabak is 1st choice because of the situation more than form.

Kabak was v shaky at the start vs Everton but when Phillips came on the defence was much better. I really don’t know why Klopp persisted with Hendo at the back - he wasn’t comfortable there and it left a huge hole in midfield. Play defenders in defence and midfielders in midfield. I know Fab is an exception but I really hope he plays DM when he is back

[npinn001]

Kabak was v shaky at the start vs Everton but when Phillips came on the defence was much better. I really don’t know why Klopp persisted with Hendo at the back - he wasn’t comfortable there and it left a huge hole in midfield. Play defenders in defence and midfielders in midfield. I know Fab is an exception but I really hope he plays DM when he is back

Couldn't agree more. The logic of 'shoring up the defence with midfielders' just because they are senior players doesn't make sense. Because if we then blunt the attack, the only likely outcomes are draws and losses. At least if we had more attacking fluidity we would have a chance.

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[spud_gun]

Surely at the moment the obvious pairing is Kabak and Phillips.

IMO with what we have available at the moment I think Kabak is 1st choice because of the situation more than form.

Can we play with a high line with two of the slowest centre backs in the world?

If we played those two then i'd imagine it'd signal a move away from 4 3 3 to a more 4 4 2 with the team sitting much deeper and Hendo / Gini offering plenty of cover in front of the CBs.

[Paul12]

I would have been scared witless with R Williams and N Phillips in defence together, but I think Phillips has done OK. Yes he's not fast, but generally seems to be well-positioned and very sensible. Yes maybe he shouldn't have committed himself so far up the pitch (for Everton's second goal) but maybe Alisson should have held the shot or maybe TAA should have taken DCL out well before he got anywhere near the box.

[Fredo]

Kabak was v shaky at the start vs Everton but when Phillips came on the defence was much better. I really don’t know why Klopp persisted with Hendo at the back - he wasn’t comfortable there and it left a huge hole in midfield. Play defenders in defence and midfielders in midfield. I know Fab is an exception but I really hope he plays DM when he is back

I think the theory for this is ball rentention, in order to sustain attacks, then Hendo is an excellent passer of the ball from deep. We lose this with Phillips or Williams and I don't know about Davies.

[Paul12]

I think the theory for this is ball rentention, in order to sustain attacks, then Hendo is an excellent passer of the ball from deep. We lose this with Phillips or Williams and I don't know about Davies.

I actually thought that part of the problem had been how deep Hendo the midfielder was starting to play. When the full backs push on, this season he has become part of a back 3; last season he covered the space but was still in midfield. Maybe that's because the full backs are not making the same recovery runs.

[Irishnev]

I think the theory for this is ball rentention, in order to sustain attacks, then Hendo is an excellent passer of the ball from deep. We lose this with Phillips or Williams and I don't know about Davies.

Maybe - I guess Klopp thought we’d dominate the ball so it makes sense. It doesn’t make sense when you see the amount of people running off him as he’s not used to that position.

It’s all moot now anyway as I’m sure he’ll be out fir the season and it will be Fab + 1 again

[Norbs]

Injured

Ffs

[Paul12]

Injured Ffs

I have atheory, which goes as follows:

In a normal season Liverpool play a very intensive sort of football that places a lot of burdens on the body. The training is tailored to that. In this exceptional season we have had to moderate our style of football because it just is not sustainable because of the frequency of the games. We have tried to moderate the training too. But we have struggled to get the balance right so (a) performances have gone off (because a key plank of the way we play has had to be switched of) and (b) muscle injuries have increased (because we have tried to keep some intensity and have not got the balance right).


Of course, as the injuries pile up, it becomes difficult to rest players that are fit but tired without performances dipping even more, so we are in a vicious death spiral now.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I have atheory, which goes as follows:

In a normal season Liverpool play a very intensive sort of football that places a lot of burdens on the body. The training is tailored to that. In this exceptional season we have had to moderate our style of football because it just is not sustainable because of the frequency of the games. We have tried to moderate the training too. But we have struggled to get the balance right so (a) performances have gone off (because a key plank of the way we play has had to be switched of) and (b) muscle injuries have increased (because we have tried to keep some intensity and have not got the balance right).


Of course, as the injuries pile up, it becomes difficult to rest players that are fit but tired without performances dipping even more, so we are in a vicious death spiral now.

I think what counters that a bit is that the injuries to VVD, Jota, Thiago and Gomez do not fall under that banner. Then you have the likes of Matip, Keita, Chamberlain, Shaqiri and even Henderson, Alisson and Fabinho who have all been prone to injuries long before this season.

Think your final paragraph nails it though. We can carry the usual unreliables to some degree as long as the reliables are in the team, but once those that usually avoided too many injuries last season started joining the ranks of the injured the pressure on the rest of the team to compensate was too much as the drop off in quality, fitness, and whatever else seemed to break the team's ability to be cohesive.

In a twisted way, this may all have been a good thing as it may serve as a very hard lesson with regards who cannot be relied on and as a result who may need to be replaced.

[Irishnev]

My theory is this:

We play a high line in defence
This compresses the pitch and allows our athletic midfield to win the ball back quickly
When we win the ball back quickly their defence isn’t set and our forwards exploit that and score lots of goals
Losing our CBs has meant we have had to move midfielders back to defence
Our midfield can’t get rotated (it normally does) and are knackered
This means the opposition have time on the ball and can play it over our high line unopposed
Our defence is weaker and can’t deal with this
Our forwards aren’t getting the ball in transition but against a set defence and it’s harder to score
All of this has resulted in **** results and has manifested itself into a lack of confidence from the players
Factor in the ****ing over from refs and VAR and the team are feeling sorry themselves
Factor in the never ending games so we can’t work on different shapes and formations
Factor in Klopp’s loyalty/stubbornness and we roll out the same lads every week

It’s a self perpetuating cycle of **** - the season is done and I hope that the lads are bottling up the rage, the fans the same and players like Thiago, Curtis, Jota etc will have had this year to leap forward from next year

[Fredo]

Generally agree with Nev.

I don’t think Klopp is stubborn though and I think what he’s trying to achieve with playing the same team is consistency and rhythm, which is a big part of our play.

There has already been tweaks in our system, slightly different formations and player positioning. My worry is our home form though, as we do have our identity somewhat when we play away and been playing generally well. It’s the lack of clear opportunities at home which is annoying and this does originate from players taking the wrong pass etc.

At some point we’ll get out of this as this is the same team which won us the league and the champions league. You can’t just become finished in a couple of months, it’s a period we have to suck the bad and hope we come out of it quick. Klopp and his team are far too good for allowing this team to decline this way.

[baitman]

My theory is this:

We play a high line in defence
This compresses the pitch and allows our athletic midfield to win the ball back quickly
When we win the ball back quickly their defence isn’t set and our forwards exploit that and score lots of goals
Losing our CBs has meant we have had to move midfielders back to defence
Our midfield can’t get rotated (it normally does) and are knackered
This means the opposition have time on the ball and can play it over our high line unopposed
Our defence is weaker and can’t deal with this
Our forwards aren’t getting the ball in transition but against a set defence and it’s harder to score
All of this has resulted in **** results and has manifested itself into a lack of confidence from the players
Factor in the ****ing over from refs and VAR and the team are feeling sorry themselves
Factor in the never ending games so we can’t work on different shapes and formations
Factor in Klopp’s loyalty/stubbornness and we roll out the same lads every week

It’s a self perpetuating cycle of **** - the season is done and I hope that the lads are bottling up the rage, the fans the same and players like Thiago, Curtis, Jota etc will have had this year to leap forward from next year

A good assessment

https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=81539

[Resu]

Injured? One of the lads now, certainly.

[kev776]

What is the injury?