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Old 26-11-13, 12:05 PM   #401
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that is the shittest paper in Sydney the Telegraph. Written for idiots.
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Old 26-11-13, 12:39 PM   #402
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for me it has to be eoin morgan - england are going to get peppered my mitchell johnson and it needs somebody able to dig in
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Old 26-11-13, 01:31 PM   #403
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for me it has to be eoin morgan - england are going to get peppered my mitchell johnson and it needs somebody able to dig in
I don't think I've ever seen Morgan dig in
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Old 26-11-13, 01:35 PM   #404
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Johnson won't do shit in Adelaide. The pitch will be slow, and yes, he had a day out in Brisbane, but he's still not a great bowler. He's never kept that sort of shit up for a whole series. Bell has to bat at 3.

If Bresnan is fit, he comes in for Tremlett, otherwise Finn. Finn must play in Perth, though, on a bouncy wicket.
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Old 26-11-13, 01:40 PM   #405
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I'd promote Root and keep Bell at 5 because he adds stability to our middle order.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:07 PM   #406
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Bell is arguably our best batsman (formwise), got two very good balls in Brisbane. Genuine number 3 for me at the moment. Aussies know what he can do to them. I want to keep Root away from the new ball, he's a good batsman but seems a little overawed on his first Ashes tour.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:21 PM   #407
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I agree. Tough call, both make sense to some degree, but I'd go Bell at 3 and keep Root where he is. Want Finn in for Tremlett, but as for who replaces Trott....no idea. All three - Ballance, Bairstow and Stokes - have stuff in their favour. Plenty of options.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:26 PM   #408
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I was reading today that Bell is our most technically sound batsmen. So having him in at Number 3 is a must. I have to say I agree now after hearing all the arguments.

Root needs to be out of the way and just left to get on with his own game. The Aussies seem scared of Bell. So I guess he is the answer. Its a strange occurrence that we have 4 specialist openers in the side. Cook, Carberry, Root and Bell can all do it. Root is questionable at Test level though I guess.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:31 PM   #409
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I would have liked to see your lots reaction to, lets say Phil Hughes, leaving the England tour the other month because of stress. You'd have been laughing your fucking cocks off at our next great hope cracking under pressure. All of you.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:34 PM   #410
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LOL. As if. Total BS. Trott hasn't "cracked under the pressure" anyway. He's ill. As if any of us would be laughing at anyone with a mental illness.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:39 PM   #411
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Yeah, no. I dont think we would be laughing.

Mental illness is just that. An illness. We have seen it in the past in this country with Trescothick. It can be debilitating, it was with him. It effectively ended his career for England.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:43 PM   #412
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Sure did.

It's emerged that Trott has had to manage this ever since he came into the side. Also appears that it's nothing to do with the intensity with which he plays...i.e. it's not really cricket related. You'd have to be a complete and utter bonehead to laugh at someone who is mentally ill.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:50 PM   #413
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I haven't got up to speed with the past couple of days events, but thats the first ive seen on "mental illness". Ive seen numerous reports on stress related leave though. Could just be the local slant though.

If it is mental illness then obviously all the best to him. Hope he sorts himself out and gets back to be an absolute bastard to get out (against every other side other than us of course )
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Old 26-11-13, 02:53 PM   #414
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Didn't Michael Yardy suffer similar? Left a tour recently and never really came back?
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Old 26-11-13, 02:54 PM   #415
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Sure did.

It's emerged that Trott has had to manage this ever since he came into the side. Also appears that it's nothing to do with the intensity with which he plays...i.e. it's not really cricket related. You'd have to be a complete and utter bonehead to laugh at someone who is mentally ill.
I'd hope you're not insinuating that that be me. Ive had my issues in the past and im very sympathetic to mental illness, and im fully aware of the awful situation you're in (i hope things are getting better btw)
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Old 26-11-13, 02:55 PM   #416
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I haven't got up to speed with the past couple of days events, but thats the first ive seen on "mental illness". Ive seen numerous reports on stress related leave though. Could just be the local slant though.

If it is mental illness then obviously all the best to him. Hope he sorts himself out and gets back to be an absolute bastard to get out (against every other side other than us of course )


It's not as if he can't handle the pressure. You could see in his batting, especially 2nd innings, that he was completely gone. Head had completely gone. Michael Vaughan said at the time, without knowing he had a condition and was struggling to control it, "Trott's head is clearly not right, that is one of the worst innings I've ever seen".

They haven't spelled out what the problem is specifically but it's under the depression/stress/anxiety umbrella, that he's managed it the whole time he's been in the England set up (since 2009) but is now at a stage where he isn't managing/controlling it, the pressure of the tour is just exacerbating an already tough condition.
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Old 26-11-13, 02:56 PM   #417
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Didn't Michael Yardy suffer similar? Left a tour recently and never really came back?
Yep. He came back to play county cricket though.

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I'd hope you're not insinuating that that be me. Ive had my issues in the past and im very sympathetic to mental illness, and im fully aware of the awful situation you're in (i hope things are getting better btw)
No man - of course not - I know you've had your problems. I meant in terms of you saying we'd all be laughing if the boot was on the other foot, and that none of us here are the total bonehead you'd need to be to find it amusing.
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Old 26-11-13, 03:00 PM   #418
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I wouldnt put general stress anywhere near those other two fwiw. Its not even in the same ball park. Obviously anxiety is in itself a form of stress, but its totally different. If you know what i mean.
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Old 26-11-13, 03:04 PM   #419
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I wouldnt put general stress anywhere near those other two fwiw. Its not even in the same ball park. Obviously anxiety is in itself a form of stress, but its totally different. If you know what i mean.
Yep totally agree - everyone feels general stress at some point or other. It's not the same, at all.

Trescothick last night talked about how it was for him - that every time he got out (during the height of his problems, just before he left the Ashes tour) he'd be dying to cry as he walked off and managed to hold it in until he got into the pavilion. Then burst into tears. Said he'd suffer horrendous anxiety and horrible, intrusive thoughts when he was alone in his hotel room, would lie awake staring at the ceiling all night, those long, horrible nights, crying etc. Then he'd get up and go and bat at the WACA or wherever. An absolute nightmare. If Trott's going through anything like the same then he did well to even get out into the middle.
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Old 26-11-13, 03:05 PM   #420
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Yep. He came back to play county cricket though.



No man - of course not - I know you've had your problems. I meant in terms of you saying we'd all be laughing if the boot was on the other foot, and that none of us here are the total bonehead you'd need to be to find it amusing.
I should make clear i made that comment thinking he's left due to "stress" and not a long standing mental condition which youve brought me up to speed on. Im still sure if Hughes or Warner or any other of our lot you guys hate had just cracked under the pressure you'd be having a wee giggle.
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Old 26-11-13, 03:09 PM   #421
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I should make clear i made that comment thinking he's left due to "stress" and not a long standing mental condition which youve brought me up to speed on. Im still sure if Hughes or Warner or any other of our lot you guys hate had just cracked under the pressure you'd be having a wee giggle.
Haha. If it was just a case of being unable to handle the pressure of top level cricket then fuck yeah we'd be having a bit of a giggle.

FWIW, here's Flower explaining:

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Flower said that he had been aware of Trott's condition since he made a stunning debut in the last Test of the 2009 Ashes series at The Oval, and that the 32-year-old had been "managing it" from the start of the tour. He had been "very concerned" about Trott when he walked out to bat late on the third day, having fallen cheaply to Johnson in the first innings but insisted there had been no doubts, and were now no regrets, about the decision to include him in the first Test team.

"There was always a possibility [of this occurring]," Flower said. "But he's always managed it really successfully and there was no reason to suggest that this Test should be any different. It is something that has always fluctuated. It was not particularly different this tour to any other time.

" He's been dealing with these issues for [all of] his cricket career and dealt with them extremely successfully.

"I can say on record now I have the utmost respect for Jonathan as a bloke, as a really successful international cricketer, I'm lucky that I've been coach while he's been our No3. He's been an absolute rock for us and hopefully he comes back and he has similar success when he comes back to play international cricket."

Trott set off for his family home in the Midlands on Sunday evening, Brisbane time, soon after Australia had completed their 381-run rout. After arriving in England he sent a message through a friend to say that he was doing well and was grateful for people's support.
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Old 26-11-13, 04:36 PM   #422
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I hope he recovers soon. He's such an incredible talent. Just took to International cricket with such ease.
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Old 26-11-13, 11:21 PM   #423
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I think it might go Bell 3 Root upto 5 and Bresnan in at 7.
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Old 27-11-13, 02:13 AM   #424
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If they think this pitch will favour the batsmen they might go for Stokes at 6 to be their 5th bowler. Harmy is a big fan and thinks he's a wicket taker.

I'm nervous about Bresnan coming into the side, he's been shit coming back after injuries in the past and if they do bring him back into the side then it makes picking Stokes a no brainer IMO.

I'm not really fussed whether they promote Bell or Root. Bell wants to bat at 3 and so I'm sure he'll put his hand up and I reckon he'll probably get the nod. It does significantly weaken our middle order though, which perhaps will influence their decision to get Bresnan in the side to bat at 8.
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Old 27-11-13, 02:54 AM   #425
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George Dobell has tweeted:

Thanks for the messages. Jonathan Trott is home now and doing well. Grateful for all the support.



Trotty
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Old 27-11-13, 11:39 AM   #426
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Who the fuck is Tymal Mills?
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Old 27-11-13, 11:49 AM   #427
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Has he been called up? Supposed to be an absolute grease lightning hostile fast bowler. Like super quick.
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Old 27-11-13, 11:53 AM   #428
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Grand total of 18 first class matches and 32 wickets.

He is a lefty.
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Old 27-11-13, 11:55 AM   #429
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Would look a bit desperate but I've heard a lot about him. Scary quick apparently, like 95mph job. Still, no good if he doesn't "put it in the right areas" and he gets carted all over the place.
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Old 27-11-13, 11:56 AM   #430
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Did anyone see that mahoosive bruise Cook had on his arm last week? Tymal Mills did that to him. Apparently he has had England batsmen hopping around all over the place in the nets.
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Old 27-11-13, 12:03 PM   #431
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Bit of info on Mills:

(Sounds like he is in contention for Perth, for obvious reasons)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cri...ills-nets.html
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Old 27-11-13, 12:56 PM   #432
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He got 6 wickets last season ha!
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Old 28-11-13, 03:58 PM   #433
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/693959.html

Quote:
The masks we wear

Often what we see of cricketers on the field is not their real selves. It's just a facade that hides the confusion that resides within

Martin Crowe
November 28, 2013

I admire the quote from Mark Twain where he said, "The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why."

It's a deep, thought-provoking observation. Why are we here and who are we?

The more fortunate ones have an inbuilt belief as to why they exist. They flow through life. Then there are the masses who ebb and flow, searching and evolving. There are also many who discover that for much of their lives they are unsure. Then one day they realise that, in fact, who they are is masked. They reach the point when enough frustration is enough. Only at that point does the real truth surface; the mask must be removed.

Jonathan Trott has reached a point. This is the point or the day he will find out why he was born, what his life is truly about. When I heard the news I felt I knew where he was in his mind. I have been in similar territory too. Many times.

If you are to choose one word to describe what he is feeling it is "confusion". Confusion is the opposite of clarity. The mind, and thoughts that come thick and fast at you, are muddled, twisted and distorted. You search for clues as to how to go forward at any moment, and as you decipher it all, you can become untrusting, unsure, and uncertain as to the clues you find. The higher the expectation of life, the harder it is to work out. Confusion is a killer.

Where does the core of this confusion grow? My feeling is that it grows in the first decade or so of your life. Then it becomes cemented between the ages of 15 to 20. From there you learn ways to wear the mask. As your body and mind reach maturity you realise the mask is necessary. The higher you expose your confusion, the more the mask becomes permanent.

My mask was firmly in position by the age of 22. I had tasted Test cricket for two years, played 13 Tests, averaging 21. I was supposed to be one of the best young players in the world. Expectations were high and I wasn't meeting them. I cried a lot, moods ebbed and flowed, emotions ran hot. My dream as a boy of scoring a hundred at Lord's was fading fast.

Then I found a mask, and I began to fake it until I made it. Part of the mask was to copy great players to hide my own inadequacies. The other part was: I was created from a fast-tracking system and had no emotional stability, so I had to make up time fast. As time went by I completely lost touch with that warm-hearted kid from Titirangi. Instead I became an aloof, intense, moody son of a bitch from New Zealand. Darth Vader, playing top-level cricket.

I made it, just. I scored the hundred at Lord's, I notched up hundreds around the world as my dream world wanted me to. I loved batting. But I grew to hate myself and the mask I wore. Off the field I was totally lost. As the expectations of a nation climbed, I knew the mask was not going anywhere. It had to stay on until the job was done.

England need to see Australia for who they are as a team and a nation right now: fully masked and in stage mode, well prepared and united

Then the body started to bend and break. The feet stopped moving smoothly. The failures arrived. In my last seven Tests I averaged 19. I broke down completely and retired depressed. To get back up on my feet the mask remained on, for television. Last year, when cancer knocked loudly, I had no choice anymore but to face the truth and start again. I unmasked in public and I surrendered to help. It was the only way.

Today, while some confusion exists, the mask has gone and I am happy to look at the real me for the first time in a long time. I accept who I am. When folks ask me what the meaning of success is, I reply that it's accepting who you are.

At this difficult moment in his life, Jonathan Trott is a very important story. It is about the courage and honesty that are driving his desire to remove the confusion and frustration and find his true fulfilment. And he will, slowly, he will. He has shown his resilience at certain points as a batsman, and he will do so again as he identifies that beyond the often boring expectations of being an international sportsman, he is an authentic, loving man.

On the other side of the pitch, wearing another mask, is David Warner. His recent behaviour of lashing out at people tells the story of a man also confused and frustrated, despite his talent. And he continues to lash out, with bat and mouth. That he wears the macho bravado mask, the loud arrogance that is more ego-driven, there is no doubt. His batting has hit a golden run and it's actually pleasant to watch. It's what he is good at. Yet his story has only just begun. Hopefully he will see that life isn't about beating up others but about accepting who you are. I'm sure deep down in Warner there is a genuine spirit.

Which makes me consider the Ashes. While one or two masks are being shed, there is no doubt that the gloves are off for Australia. Failure has forced them to secure the mask once and for all until the last ball is bowled; no drinks with the opposition, no warmth shared, and only a minimum respect. Australia have donned battle garb, to mask their frailties, and it has surprisingly caught England off guard.

Alas, it is not real. If we are honest, it's just a fašade. It's not really Michael Clarke's true self, or Darren Lehmann's. Clarke, up until five minutes to go in the Brisbane Test, displayed a real face and spirit to the challenge in front of him. Then, on the stroke of the kill, his face changed and the mask was there for all to see, ugly and not authentic.

The finger-pointing rant was a performance to lead into the next battle in Adelaide. He did not need to act the way he did. That he did is indeed the Australian way, given they have been humiliated so much recently and had smelled blood. At this point, for such a proud cricketing nation, failure is not an option.

It's all put on to frighten away the demons of the last three series. That is what the Ashes has become, a gladiator sport, fuelled by drama and controversy. As cricket entertainment goes, it's riveting and compelling. After it is done, they will all go home, try and take off the false ego, and try and be human again, especially in front of family and friends. The lucky ones will take the masks off easily, knowing they are fake, while for those who conceal it, confusion will continue to hit bumps in the road.

England need to see Australia for who they are as a team and a nation right now; fully masked and in stage mode, well prepared and united. Even sections of the media are on show, as the Broad ban showed. Nevertheless, if England see through the acting and ignore it, and instead focus on the energy, and on being true to themselves, then they can and will compete closely.

If Jimmy Anderson can pull his head in and concentrate on late swing, he will be doing his job for his country. He is not getting better as his body slows down, especially while acting a clown, so his efforts should be on hitting the top of off stump. Additionally KP and Prior could do with simply playing straight as a button for a while.

Whether they are good enough across the park right now in these "rather hot" foreign conditions, is another matter. What they must insist upon and lay down as their true intent is that they will not be fooled into noticing the act. Cook is the perfect man to lead this honest endeavour. He is truly grounded and real, with the fortitude to grind down the macho manoeuvring.

Martin Crowe, one of the leading batsmen of the late '80s, played 77 Tests for New Zealand
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Old 28-11-13, 10:43 PM   #434
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Great article that.
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Old 29-11-13, 02:24 AM   #435
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I don't think Warner wears a mask. He's just a thoroughly unpleasant person.
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Old 29-11-13, 09:33 AM   #436
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Not a very encouraging warm up ffs
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Old 29-11-13, 09:40 AM   #437
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Alice Springs Fire Brigade 2nd XI reduce England to 212-7
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Old 29-11-13, 09:41 AM   #438
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Back to the good old days.
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Old 29-11-13, 09:47 AM   #439
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Ballance made 55. So maybe they will have a little look at him.
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Old 29-11-13, 09:57 AM   #440
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Ballance and Bresnan in, Tremlett out. Ballance is the right age, if he does OK he'll be a permanent fixture.
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