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Old 18-01-11, 11:04 PM   #81
GorbyPeacePrize
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Originally Posted by Craig_H View Post
We dont actually know anything about Carra 'getting rid' of rafa - more baseless Arn-type speculative bollocks.

As for the contract - cos you, in the same position, would've turned it down, yeah?
It's not the contract offer per se, it's the agitation that went on behind the scenes to secure it and the timing of the signing. Purslow didn't just amble up to Carragher right out of the blue and say: "Hey Jamie, d'ya fancy a nice big contract extension?".

Cue your usual "but, but, but, you don't know what went on behind the scenes" whining.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:05 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by GorbyPeacePrize View Post
It's not the contract offer per se, it's the agitation that went on behind the scenes to secure it and the timing of the signing. Purslow didn't just amble up to Carragher right out of the blue and say: "Hey Jamie, d'ya fancy a nice big contract extension?".

Cue your usual "but, but, but, you don't know what went on behind the scenes" whining.
I heard that you once robbed a bank, behind the scenes.

Of course i have no evidence for this at all, but it must be true.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:05 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by GorbyPeacePrize View Post
It's not the contract offer per se, it's the agitation that went on behind the scenes to secure it and the timing of the signing. Purslow didn't just amble up to Carragher right out of the blue and say: "Hey Jamie, d'ya fancy a nice big contract extension?".

Cue your usual "but, but, but, you don't know what went on behind the scenes" whining.
Now is this behind the scenes scenario 100% fact or is there a bit of poetic license here?
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Old 18-01-11, 11:06 PM   #84
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I would have waited until after the takeover. I wouldn't acted like an egoistic idiot. Then I would know if the club wanted me to stay or not.

I would have acted in a fair way against the club.
Did you consider the possibility that maybe his egoism could be an important reason why he has six million appearances for the one of the greatest clubs in world football and you have none?
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Old 18-01-11, 11:08 PM   #85
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All we know is that this season would have been Carragher's last one with us if Rafa had stayed and his only chance to stay was to get rid of Rafa.

Carragher is a Liverpool legend but he proved once and for all that he puts himself before the club if he had to make a choice.

The Carragher Liverpool heart thing is just bullshit, he proved that when he signed his new deal the day before the takeover.

If he stays at the club after he finish playing then it is a disgrace simply because he don't deserve it. He can go on and play with his money instead. He loves them more than Liverpool FC.
You are also an idiot with all due respect. where are the facts in all of what you say ? you love Rafa so much so you should be able to provide facts like he likes to do.
We had good times under Rafa but ultimately he lead to his own downfall. You will counter probably with saying he lead us to our highest league finish blah blah. but The Fact is we Lost the league that season when it was in our hands because of his stubbornness and negative approach. He alienated himself from everybody and lost his job.

stupid cunts with all due respect
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Old 18-01-11, 11:12 PM   #86
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I heard that you once robbed a bank, behind the scenes.

Of course i have no evidence for this at all, but it must be true.
If Joe Cole's mate's told you then that info is bang on the money.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:13 PM   #87
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Did you consider the possibility that maybe his egoism could be an important reason why he has six million appearances for the one of the greatest clubs in world football and you have none?
Of course it is a reason but only when he uses that ego on the pitch and not off the pitch.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:14 PM   #88
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He's got some idiotic irrational agenda against Carragher. He refuses to say what his problem actually is, preferring to spout shite instead.
You are obviously hard of learning; I've given you a convenient link to a thread that goes over a lot of it. If you don't like it then I guess it's just tough titty for you.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:14 PM   #89
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If Joe Cole's mate's told you then that info is bang on the money.
That probably sounded funny in your head.

As for your 'link' - you could very easily just say what the problem is, even if you DID post it before. But you choose not to. Obviously very convinced by the validity of your own opinion...
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Old 18-01-11, 11:19 PM   #90
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Of course it is a reason but only when he uses that ego on the pitch and not off the pitch.
Oh come on, mate, it's not that simple. It would be great if it were and of course some players are like that but not all can be all-round nice guys off the pitch and ultra-competitive on it.

I think you're being a bit too demanding of Carragher and Gerrard. They're not perfect, sure. They may even have not behaved well at all in some ways. But I don't think it's right to let unconfirmed, if plausible, speculations about recent behaviour outweigh the service they've given to the club (and yes, for which they've been amply rewarded, at the going, if obscene, rate).

Gorby not rating Carragher is a different argument (and one that seems incredibly one-eyed to me) but it's not fair to criticise them too much just because they're not saints.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:24 PM   #91
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That probably sounded funny in your head.

As for your 'link' - you could very easily just say what the problem is, even if you DID post it before. But you choose not to. Obviously very convinced by the validity of your own opinion...


You've asked me for my opinions and I've guided you to where they are (and also commented on how disingenuous you are) but it's still not good enough for you What do you want me to do, spoon-feed you like an 18month-old baby?
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Old 18-01-11, 11:26 PM   #92
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what a stupid thing to say. a Player who has played more than 600 games for the club and performed in the toughest stages is not a legend. You sir have proved that you are a stupid child.
It just demonstrates how far standards have fallen that a player so limited can make all those appearances. He wouldn't get anywhere near a side that routinely challenged for the League Title.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:27 PM   #93
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Now is this behind the scenes scenario 100% fact or is there a bit of poetic license here?
*taps nose*
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Old 18-01-11, 11:28 PM   #94
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You're worse than Duncan Oldham.
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Old 18-01-11, 11:43 PM   #95
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You're worse than Duncan Oldham.


Now I know how you have got up to over 40K posts. What a complete tit. I answer all of your queries to me, and debunk your 'myth busting' bollocks and this is all you've got left.

When are you going over to the "Jamie Carragher Will Be On Soccer Saturday" thread? You seemed a bit uppity that I was a tardy with a reply to one your 'genuine questions'. Look, here is a link I am now spoon-feeding you: http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/show...&postcount=107

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Old 18-01-11, 11:56 PM   #96
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Ah, the old 'loads of posts' chestnut. How original. The last refuge of the damned monomaniac.
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Old 19-01-11, 12:02 AM   #97
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Ah, the old 'loads of posts' chestnut. How original. The last refuge of the damned monomaniac.
Is that a 'no' then?
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Old 19-01-11, 10:27 AM   #98
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So you would've turned it down then? Cos you ignored that question.
its not the point he's making tho is it.

the issue is the screwing around behind the scenes. you're spot on that we dont know exactly what happened but we do know a few things:

Rafa wasnt offering him a contract as basically, his legs have gone
NESV wouldnt have offered the same contract
Timing of the contract being immediately before takeover completes smells fishy given NESVs view on older players
JC refusing to play where rafa wants him as yet doing just that for Roy a year later
JC & SG moaning to Owen about 'everything changing'
LFC players sounding out Danny Murphy about Roy
Purslow going from backing to sacking rafa within 12 months during which time we finish 2nd with some absolutely cracking football
Houllier claiming publicly that one of the senior players texted him about Rafa not beating him - clearly a 'fuck you' to rafa after he was sacked. This had to be JC or SG.

Bottom line is that JC got a contract that neither Rafa nor NESV approved of. Himself and purlsow pushed that through - even stevie wonder can see that. Do you agree?

So sure, if lfc offered any of us 90k a week we'd accept it. Especially if we had been upto devious games behind the scenes to get it. The issue is the deviousness to get it not that he actually signed the contract.

Edit: The alternative to 'devious games' view is that purslow, entirely of his on volition decides to offer the contract extension, days before NESV take over - or even say at roys request/with his approval. so I'm happy to say it wasnt all JC being some machiavellian evil master but rather one of a handful of people that have fucked about with the club.

Last edited by barnes10; 19-01-11 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 19-01-11, 12:08 PM   #99
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Rafa wasnt offering him a contract as basically, his legs have gone
Do we know this? We are fairly sure that Rafa wasn't offering him the longer deal he wanted but we have no information about why. For example Arsenal only offer one year deals to players over 30 and Rafa might have felt that was the way to go for us. Meaning he might not have felt his legs have gone but that they might.

Personally I think that our defense has been better when Carragher is in it this season. To some extent that might reflect the levels of the other defenders more than being great praise but I think he still has a lot to offer.
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Old 19-01-11, 12:12 PM   #100
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Do we know this? We are fairly sure that Rafa wasn't offering him the longer deal he wanted but we have no information about why. For example Arsenal only offer one year deals to players over 30 and Rafa might have felt that was the way to go for us. Meaning he might not have felt his legs have gone but that they might.

Personally I think that our defense has been better when Carragher is in it this season. To some extent that might reflect the levels of the other defenders more than being great praise but I think he still has a lot to offer.
lot's of guesswork here I think!

I actually agree with the United and Arsenal way of doing these contracts, keeps the players hungry and allows things if need be to be changed in a respectful way for both player and club - look at Giggs 37 now and still can do it at the top level.
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Old 19-01-11, 01:33 PM   #101
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Do we know this? We are fairly sure that Rafa wasn't offering him the longer deal he wanted but we have no information about why. For example Arsenal only offer one year deals to players over 30 and Rafa might have felt that was the way to go for us. Meaning he might not have felt his legs have gone but that they might.

Personally I think that our defense has been better when Carragher is in it this season. To some extent that might reflect the levels of the other defenders more than being great praise but I think he still has a lot to offer.
ok happy to call it as you've described it. that he wasnt offered what he wanted but he then ends up getting what he wants before the takeover completes. thats basically my point.
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Old 19-01-11, 01:47 PM   #102
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what a stupid thing to say. a Player who has played more than 600 games for the club and performed in the toughest stages is not a legend. You sir have proved that you are a stupid child.
Playing a lot of games does not make him a legend.

He started in the first team as a midfielder and wasn't good enough. He played both full-back positions and wasn't good enough. Then he had a few decent but unspectacular seasons at CB

For about three years he's been a slow, plodding, hoofing liability and is certainly not good enough to be in the first team, other than as back-up

I've seen may great players over half a century in Liverpool's teams that deserve to be called legends. Carragher isn't within light years of deserving such an accolade. He's not even one of our best ever centre-backs, much less one of our best ever players
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Old 19-01-11, 01:52 PM   #103
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You are also an idiot with all due respect. where are the facts in all of what you say ? you love Rafa so much so you should be able to provide facts like he likes to do.
We had good times under Rafa but ultimately he lead to his own downfall. You will counter probably with saying he lead us to our highest league finish blah blah. but The Fact is we Lost the league that season when it was in our hands because of his stubbornness and negative approach. He alienated himself from everybody and lost his job.

stupid cunts with all due respect
So can you explain to me in simple terms how, if Rafa had a "negative approach", we ended up as the Premier League's highest goalscorers that season? I'd really like to try to get my head around that seeming paradox. Maybe your towering intellect can get to the nub of the issue
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Old 19-01-11, 01:56 PM   #104
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Ah, the old 'loads of posts' chestnut. How original. The last refuge of the damned monomaniac.
To be fair, your record, which is equivalent to posting once a day for 118 years is a tad disturbing. I mean, how on earth do you fit your paper round in?
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Old 19-01-11, 02:37 PM   #105
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You still don't get it do you

He wasn't offered a new deal. Rafa didn't offer him a new deal. Rafa had the power to decide if Carra would stay or not. Purslow didn't had that power. Only after Rafa had gone then Purslow got the power to offer Carra a new deal.
If Rafa had stayed then it wouldn't been a contract offer to turn down.

The ONLY chance Carra had was to get rid of Rafa or else he would have been finished. That is one thing you never will understand or agree with.

You even defends the way he fixed his new contract and that is laughable to say the least. Even when he acts like a total egoistic idiot you defend him. When he piss all over the club you defend him. Totally laughable.

Carra is player that shouldn't play for us because the club and the manager didn't want him. Now he plays for us only because Purslow wanted him to do it.
I see Arn's been sitting in the LFC boardroom again and is privvy to this information!!
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Old 19-01-11, 02:46 PM   #106
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I see Arn's been sitting in the LFC boardroom again and is privvy to this information!!
x a million.

Rafa had the final say on every player in or out and on the contract situations. That was part of his five year deal. No fantasy, just plain facts. That has been covered to death by the media an in here.

That means that Rafa had the final say on if Carra would get a new deal and how long the deal should be.
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Old 19-01-11, 02:48 PM   #107
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How do you know he was not waiting until the end of the season? But then he got sacked and couldn't. Besides it would be right fuck up if he did get rid of Carra. Since every other centre back he signed isn't a patch on a 33 year old who's well on the slide.
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Old 19-01-11, 02:51 PM   #108
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How do you know he was not waiting until the end of the season? But then he got sacked and couldn't. Besides it would be right fuck up if he did get rid of Carra. Since every other centre back he signed isn't a patch on a 33 year old who's well on the slide.
Agger is miles better.

Rafa is the only reason to why Carra is considered a Liverpool legend, nothing more, nothing less. He was the one that started to play him in the middle and got the best out of him and improved him from average to a star.
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Old 19-01-11, 02:52 PM   #109
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You're deluded.

That is all.

PS. Agger couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag, and he'd probably get a paper cut on said bag and be out for the season.
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Old 19-01-11, 03:03 PM   #110
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You're deluded.

That is all.

PS. Agger couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag, and he'd probably get a paper cut on said bag and be out for the season.
whatever
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Old 19-01-11, 03:43 PM   #111
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Playing a lot of games does not make him a legend.

He started in the first team as a midfielder and wasn't good enough. He played both full-back positions and wasn't good enough. Then he had a few decent but unspectacular seasons at CB

For about three years he's been a slow, plodding, hoofing liability and is certainly not good enough to be in the first team, other than as back-up

I've seen may great players over half a century in Liverpool's teams that deserve to be called legends. Carragher isn't within light years of deserving such an accolade. He's not even one of our best ever centre-backs, much less one of our best ever players

So he fooled Houllier, Rafa, Roy, Capello (to a lesser extent) and probably Kenny no doubt. Fooled the 40,000 Liverpool fans who sang about a team of Carraghers at matches, fooled the millions of fans that have Carragher on the back of their shirt, fooled even more millions that appreciate that he was a very good player on his day but accept he is not the same player and have been left with a sour taste after recent rumours, but still appreciate what he has achieved at the club.

But he didnít fool you, no, no. Well done Sir.
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Old 19-01-11, 06:08 PM   #112
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You're deluded.

That is all.

PS. Agger couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag, and he'd probably get a paper cut on said bag and be out for the season.
How do you defend your way out of a paper bag?

Surely you'd have to attack your way out
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Old 19-01-11, 06:12 PM   #113
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Smartarse.
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Old 19-01-11, 07:17 PM   #114
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How do you defend your way out of a paper bag?

Surely you'd have to attack your way out
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Old 19-01-11, 07:49 PM   #115
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So he fooled Houllier, Rafa, Roy, Capello (to a lesser extent) and probably Kenny no doubt. Fooled the 40,000 Liverpool fans who sang about a team of Carraghers at matches, fooled the millions of fans that have Carragher on the back of their shirt, fooled even more millions that appreciate that he was a very good player on his day but accept he is not the same player and have been left with a sour taste after recent rumours, but still appreciate what he has achieved at the club.

But he didnít fool you, no, no. Well done Sir.
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Old 19-01-11, 08:19 PM   #116
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My take on this is Carra was playing full back before Rafa came in. Rafa picked him at centre back and for a couple of seasons helped turn Carra into one of the best centre backs in the PL then things behind the scenes somehow turned sour and Carra played a part in getting rid of Rafa and replacing him with the worst manager in our recent history (50 years or so)
The point here is no other aspiring top side plays a 33 year old who was never blessed with pace in the first place yet we reward one with a 2 year 90k a week contract.

Carra has been a phenomenal servant for LFC and had spells as a top player but he isn't good enough to be first choice anymore
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Old 19-01-11, 08:21 PM   #117
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My take on this is Carra was playing full back before Rafa came in. Rafa picked him at centre back and for a couple of seasons helped turn Carra into one of the best centre backs in the PL then things behind the scenes somehow turned sour and Carra played a part in getting rid or Rafa and replacing him with the worst manager in our recent history (50 years or so)
The point here is no other aspiring top side plays a 33 year old who was never blessed with pace in the first place yet we reward one with a 2 year 90k a week contract.

Carra has been a phenomenal servant for LFC and had spells as a top player but he isn't good enough to be first choice anymore
Interesting point.

So who is first choice then? The hapless Skrtel? Or the slow-as-a-snail, cant-deal-with-the-ball-at-his-feet Kyrgiakos?
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Old 19-01-11, 08:34 PM   #118
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He shouldn't be first choice any more, at least not for a club with top 4 / title aspirations.

He's only our first choice because Agger and Skrtel haven't developed the way we had hoped.
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Old 19-01-11, 08:35 PM   #119
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So, given they havent developed in the way we hoped, he IS first choice.
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Old 19-01-11, 08:57 PM   #120
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All we know is that this season would have been Carragher's last one with us if Rafa had stayed and his only chance to stay was to get rid of Rafa.

Carragher is a Liverpool legend but he proved once and for all that he puts himself before the club if he had to make a choice.

The Carragher Liverpool heart thing is just bullshit, he proved that when he signed his new deal the day before the takeover.

If he stays at the club after he finish playing then it is a disgrace simply because he don't deserve it. He can go on and play with his money instead. He loves them more than Liverpool FC.
If Cara's that scheming and clever he needs to get out of football and into politics

Think you lack just a little objectivity there.
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