It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892
Old 08-06-21, 12:12 AM   #9001
HamboCairns
Run the Jewels
 
HamboCairns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,949
Respect to Paul but zero respect for the both of them. This was no better than WWF.
__________________
Great Britain is really fucked.
HamboCairns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 09:22 AM   #9002
RichC
Meh
 
RichC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,886
Fury vs Wilder postponed then. Covid case in the Fury camp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/57770810
RichC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 10:06 AM   #9003
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
It's Fury that's tested positive?

Understandable that the fight has been postponed then

Given that Joshua isn't fighting till late September I was slightly sceptical at the prospect of Fury fighting in July then having an 10 month lay off before fighting Joshua in May / June of next year (provided they both win)
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 10:18 AM   #9004
RichC
Meh
 
RichC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,886
Yeah, looks like it's Fury then was reported as being someone in the camp but it's clearly him! :
RichC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 11:25 AM   #9005
fidget
Shankly
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,867
I'm amazed it's taken him so long to catch it to be honest.
fidget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 11:39 AM   #9006
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidget View Post
I'm amazed it's taken him so long to catch it to be honest.
Why?
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-21, 01:45 PM   #9007
fidget
Shankly
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Why?
He doesn't strike me as the type to adhere to social distancing etc.
fidget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-21, 11:24 PM   #9008
labourRed
Paisley
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 10,046
First time I saw Andy Cruz today. What a talent that fella is. Shame he'll probably be a amateur all his days.
labourRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-21, 02:16 AM   #9009
HamboCairns
Run the Jewels
 
HamboCairns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,949
Serious question - Is Jake Paul a decent boxer?
__________________
Great Britain is really fucked.
HamboCairns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-21, 12:44 PM   #9010
paulg
Dalglish
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,823
He's not a decent anything.
paulg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-21, 10:35 PM   #9011
HamboCairns
Run the Jewels
 
HamboCairns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 35,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulg View Post
He's not a decent anything.
__________________
Great Britain is really fucked.
HamboCairns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-21, 12:49 PM   #9012
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 132,094
This is embarrassing. A disgrace. Holyfield is 58 ffs. Everyone involved in putting this on should be ashamed.

__________________
That were absolute diabolical
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-21, 01:20 PM   #9013
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
This is embarrassing. A disgrace. Holyfield is 58 ffs. Everyone involved in putting this on should be ashamed.

Vitor Belfort vs Evander Holyfield Highlights - YouTube
It's a joke. I can't handle any of these "exhibitions". They're putting the sport into further disrepute. Freakshows popping up all over the place in the name of boxing. I refuse to watch any of them. Thought this article I read yesterday sums it up nicely.

Quote:
Heads Should Roll For Evander Holyfield Farce
https://www.boxingscene.com/heads-ro...OYFAXv4EEaBBWc

There were probably some who were looking forward to seeing Oscar De La Hoya in his comeback oddity fight with former MMA star Vitor Belfort.

It was due to happen on Saturday (September 11) but when the former boxing hero came down with Covid-19 the former world super-featherweight champion was replaced by the former world heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield.

Well, De La Hoya admitted he felt his career was over as a fighter halfway through the Floyd Mayweather fight 14 years ago. Holyfield was telling me in the last couple of years that he knew the right time to get out of the sport came when Andy Ruiz was kicking his ass in sparring.

But now, as the long-retired warrior nears his 59th birthday, he fights again.

This, however, is not just any 58-year-old man but one who has taken thousands upon thousands of blows to the head.

An amateur for 10 years, he boxed as a pro from 1984 to 2011. He was in wild shootouts at cruiserweight and heavyweight. His back catalogue of wars with Dwight Qawi, Riddick Bowe, Bert Cooper, Mike Tyson and Ray Mercer stacks up against just about any other fighter in terms of entertainment. Then there were fights with Michael Moorer, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and, as he got older and slower, John Ruiz, James Toney, Chris Byrd and Nikolai Valuev.

But by the end of his career, you could tell he was no longer the same fighter or the same man. His speech pattern had changed and he simply couldn’t do what he had done in his prime. He was growing old.

Plenty of commissions wouldn’t license him because, ultimately, they feared for his safety.

Yet here we go, boxing in 2021 rolls the dice with sideshow after freak show in events dressed as boxing matches but that are really curiosities rather than true sporting contests.

Florida has ludicrously sanctioned his fight with Belfort and it’s as outrageous as anything that’s gone on in recent weeks, be it the Oscar Valdez fiasco or anything else.

Because even if Holyfield fights, wins, loses or draws and whether the fight is good, bad or ugly a near-60-year-old man shouldn’t be doing this let alone one with Holyfield’s extraordinary mileage.

It’s cliched to say one punch can change anything but that is accurate. It’s also accurate to say there are links from boxing to chronic brain injuries and illnesses such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, dementia and ALS. You hate to speculate about who might or might not be at risk down the line but Holyfield should have been tracked by neurologists for more than a decade by now and they should have been able to monitor his brain function through a series of annual cognitive tests.

Damage from contact sports, including boxing, can remain hidden for years but ultimately the build of toxic protein in the brain from repeated trauma will start to compromise brain function and ultimately start to close the body down.

Holyfield has taken enough.

There might be some who think the choice is his to make, and it’s his life. But his age and past history makes him exceptionally vulnerable.

Of course, there are genuinely people who think they are helping these old guys by training them and managing them, that they’re trying to do their best by them and keeping them as safe as possible. Unfortunately, their lack of knowledge makes them both culpable and guilty. They are aiding and they are abetting.

As well-meaning as they might be – and sure, plenty will only be hanging around for money, selfies and a few moments in the spotlight – they are doing more harm than good. Even if no one else wants anything to do with the old timers and the top trainers won’t work with them, the top promoters won’t promote them and the major networks won’t broadcast them and no one is any longer looking out for them, by helping them get another payday, be it sparring or fighting or both, they are making an already bad situation far worse. They’re not allowing the fighter to get on with his life, to start a new trade, to change their focus, they wind up living off past glories doing the one thing they could do but no longer should be allowed to do.

Sure, it still boils down to choice but the risk goes up enormously if a near 59-year-old is boxing rather than a 29-year-old. This is a simple physical fact.

VADA, the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association is run by Dr. Margaret Goodman, an experienced voice in boxing, a deserved Hall of Famer who cares about the fighters and, arguably most importantly, is a neurologist. The VADA twitter account tweeted this week:

“After 40 our brain shrinks on average 5% per decade. This means the bridging veins connecting the brain to its coverings are at increased risk of brain bleeds when [the] head is hit.”

Saturday night in Florida is not boxing. This is not sport. This is science and these are facts.

Whoever is enabling this monstrosity – in any way, shape or form – should hang their heads and never be allowed to be involved with boxing again because they clearly don’t give a damn about what should be their priority, and that is fighter safety.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-21, 01:20 PM   #9014
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
That fight and all the other joke fights are a disgrace imo.

Years back you had people like Ali have exibition bouts but they were clearly seen as not being real fights.


These days you have shit like this, shit like McGregor or Youtube idiots all climbing into the ring and people treating it like it is real.

And you have all these idiots making more money from these freakshows that actual boxers who earn a fraction of the same money for having to train hard and fight for real.


Just another nail in the coffin for boxing imho.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-21, 01:27 PM   #9015
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,449
Anyone watch the Christy Martin documentary on Netflix? I'm not big on women's boxing. Not because I'm anti it, more because I seldom find the fights quality. So naturally, I didn't follow her career - always put it down to her being decent and them feeding her journeymen, a bum of the month kind of thing. Either way, thought it was a really good watch.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-21, 12:53 PM   #9016
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 132,094
Really enjoyed this. From the bigot of a few years ago, I have to say he's won me over in a big way. A likeable bloke.

__________________
That were absolute diabolical
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-21, 01:00 PM   #9017
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
Really enjoyed this. From the bigot of a few years ago, I have to say he's won me over in a big way. A likeable bloke.

Tyson Fury shares all on Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder & more to Gary Neville | The Overlap - YouTube

Every few year he does one of those redemption type interviews. I'm just a regular bloke who said stuff I regret and a lot of what I say is for the cameras blah blah blah.


Then the mask slips and the sexist, homophobic nasty comments come out again and a few years later another I'm a regular bloke interview comes out.


Man has shown too many times how backwards and ignorant some of his views are to now think he is anything but.


Even a bigot can pretend to be decent for a short span of time.



Plus that self appointed paragon of all that is right Neville is there so that is another strike.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-21, 01:02 PM   #9018
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Every few year he does one of those redemption type interviews. I'm just a regular bloke who said stuff I regret and a lot of what I say is for the cameras blah blah blah.


Then the mask slips and the sexist, homophobic nasty comments come out again and a few years later another I'm a regular bloke interview comes out.


Man has shown too many times how backwards and ignorant some of his views are to now think he is anything but.


Even a bigot can pretend to be decent for a short span of time.



Plus that self appointed paragon of all that is right Neville is there so that is another strike.
Absolute cunt. He beats Wilder and suddenly everyone thinks he's a good guy. Hermann Göring gave some pretty good sound bites, guess I'd have him round for a few pints.

I'm a bit disappointed with Neville for this one. Thought he was quite brave to stand up to Sky on the racism thing a few years back after that Chelsea game. If he's doing an interview out of his field and pretending to be a journalist a quick "you've said some controversial things in the past, do you cringe looking back at that?" or something like that. Fury gets a free pass.

Also there is no evidence that he is a "former bigot" and changed his views. He just hasn't spoken on the subject. Pretty sure you put a bible in his hand, get him going and the bullshit will start flowing freely.

Also his hypocrisy about "smashing them all to bits". You've fought Wlad in his worst night in 20 years, Wilder, Chisora and Cunningham. That's it. Plus that Wallin fight only had a couple of rounds in it. So he's beat 4 fighters and 20 odd taxi drivers, now he's amazing. It's a shit division but there are harder fights than he's had out there. Fair play, he was due to fight Haye twice and those fights didn't happen. I'm positive Haye would've won them if not for the injuries. I'm not saying that the division is good because it's pure shit but over the last 10 years there have been better than Pianeta, Kevin Johnson and Tom fucking Schwarz FFS.

Seeing this is the boxing thread - see Caleb Plant is next in with Canelo. Any bets on how much Canelo "hydrates" to? Probably weighs in on the button and comes in a cruiserweight on the night. Yawn the current crop (promoters and fighters) make it so hard to watch these days. So little to look forward to. Crawford vs Porter is possibly the only fight I'm keen to see this year.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-21, 01:36 PM   #9019
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapater View Post
Absolute cunt. He beats Wilder and suddenly everyone thinks he's a good guy. Hermann Göring gave some pretty good sound bites, guess I'd have him round for a few pints.

I'm a bit disappointed with Neville for this one. Thought he was quite brave to stand up to Sky on the racism thing a few years back after that Chelsea game. If he's doing an interview out of his field and pretending to be a journalist a quick "you've said some controversial things in the past, do you cringe looking back at that?" or something like that. Fury gets a free pass.

Also there is no evidence that he is a "former bigot" and changed his views. He just hasn't spoken on the subject. Pretty sure you put a bible in his hand, get him going and the bullshit will start flowing freely.

Also his hypocrisy about "smashing them all to bits". You've fought Wlad in his worst night in 20 years, Wilder, Chisora and Cunningham. That's it. Plus that Wallin fight only had a couple of rounds in it. So he's beat 4 fighters and 20 odd taxi drivers, now he's amazing. It's a shit division but there are harder fights than he's had out there. Fair play, he was due to fight Haye twice and those fights didn't happen. I'm positive Haye would've won them if not for the injuries. I'm not saying that the division is good because it's pure shit but over the last 10 years there have been better than Pianeta, Kevin Johnson and Tom fucking Schwarz FFS.

Seeing this is the boxing thread - see Caleb Plant is next in with Canelo. Any bets on how much Canelo "hydrates" to? Probably weighs in on the button and comes in a cruiserweight on the night. Yawn the current crop (promoters and fighters) make it so hard to watch these days. So little to look forward to. Crawford vs Porter is possibly the only fight I'm keen to see this year.

Nothing at all I can disagree with in all of that post right down to only having one to be somewhat keen to watch this year.

Fury is just a joke. A nasty racist homophbic joke and the Heavyweight division is dead in my eyes. Used to love the heavyweight and middleweight divisions above all others at one point in my life. Now the big boys are nothing more than being a divisions full of plodders with the best of the crop being nothing more than the level of record padders from yesteryear.

Said it years ago on here to the mirth of some that I saw Joshua as being a big Bruce Seldon and I still see him as being on that level. It is just that the rest of the division if for the most part far far worse than a Bruce Seldon level fighter.

Fury is just a big awkward lump who does have the ability to do a lot of the basics well, but like Joshua he stands out thanks to how much worse than him most of the rest of the divison is. Not sure I would include Cunningham as a decent name to have on his record either. Cunningham had lost five time before facing Fury and Fury was 12 years younger than him. Cunningham was a pretty average cruiserweight who had only just moved up to heavy for the money.

What is just as depressing is if you look at the next generation coming through. It somehow looks full of even less talented fighters with a few who will become "names" thanks to promoters with good media connections and a diet of East European plumbers.

Then I look at the middleweights. Govolkin is well past his best. Canelo has talent but will never get into a ring if there is a chance of a 50/50 fight. Andrade I do like to watch at times from a technical pov. Then it becomes a mish mash of hype jobs or fighters who are nice to watch but who have pretty low ceilings.


And as for Canelo's weight against Plant. My guess is he will on the night of the fight be around the 180 to 185lbs mark and at the weigh in will be 167.75 lbs. He often looks a very solid stone over the weight limit come fight night.

In a fair fight he is a better fighter than Plant and more than durable enough to take the best a relatively light hitter like Plant could dish out. But Canelo will want his 10+ lbs advantage along with any other advantages he may garner or ingest. Wonder how brightly his piss glows in the dark. Must make for easy night time trips to the loo as he does not have to fumble around for a light switch.


Damn you Zap for getting my dander up over the sport
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-21, 11:57 PM   #9020
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
I am so up for the fight Saturday night.

Should be a cracker.


Ahh who am I kidding.


Joshua should stop Usyk and if he does not, well am sure the hype folk will try to make out that Usyk, two heavyweight fight Usyk, is a world class heavyweight.

Usyk was a tidy cruiserweight but beating a tomato can in Chazz Witherspoon and being fitter than Chisora is not much of a heavyweight career. Yet somehow that record sees him highly ranked by a few organisations.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 09:49 AM   #9021
Angryred
Dalglish
 
Angryred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
I am so up for the fight Saturday night.

Should be a cracker.


Ahh who am I kidding.


Joshua should stop Usyk and if he does not, well am sure the hype folk will try to make out that Usyk, two heavyweight fight Usyk, is a world class heavyweight.

Usyk was a tidy cruiserweight but beating a tomato can in Chazz Witherspoon and being fitter than Chisora is not much of a heavyweight career. Yet somehow that record sees him highly ranked by a few organisations.
Smacks of desperation as fuck all left in that heavyweight division, peak time for that division was back in the 70s to 90s
__________________
Nope, don't need anger management, you just need to stop pissing me off!
Angryred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 10:00 AM   #9022
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Jaco,

Why bother posting in boxing? Any time you post you're generally taking a shit on the sport.

Is your contention that great cruisers can't transition to good heavyweights?

We had one of the best fights in years (the undisputed light welterweight fight) earlier in the year and there was hardly peep from either yourself or your fellow doom merchant Zapater about it.
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:12 AM   #9023
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,692
I know fuck all about the technicalities of Boxing

But I really like AJ as a sportsman. The chat this week seems to be that the fella he is fighting will be a genuine challenge. One he should win, but a challenge noetheless.

I watched the last Joshua fight the other night for the first time, and was struck by the fact that he seems to have worked on his weaknesses and he delivered a really smart performance. Didnt leave himself open to being knocked down and gradually found away to take down his opponent, who was outclassed.

I am looking forward to the fight also. Hope AJ wins, and would love to see him take down Fury.

*I also like and follow Josh taylor obvs
__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:18 AM   #9024
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Jaco,

Why bother posting in boxing? Any time you post you're generally taking a shit on the sport.

Is your contention that great cruisers can't transition to good heavyweights?

We had one of the best fights in years (the undisputed light welterweight fight) earlier in the year and there was hardly peep from either yourself or your fellow doom merchant Zapater about it.


__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:25 AM   #9025
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post


Jaco's posts in the boxing section are akin to Dan Perkins posts in the Liverpool forum
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:30 AM   #9026
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,449
Usyk is a great fighter, but he may be a bit small for this. Who knows, hard to tell. I can see it going either way in all honesty. If they fought on several occasions they could have different types of fights and results. He doesn't have much heavyweight history, but it does seem he can be pushed around a bit as he's so light. Could be completely wrong but back Usyk to take it with his slick movement and clever punching.

Joshua doesn't have much experience against southpaws either. Correct me if I'm wrong but only one I can recall is Charles Martin and that didn't last very long.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:34 AM   #9027
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Jaco's posts in the boxing section are akin to Dan Perkins posts in the Liverpool forum
Doubling down.



Whats your take? I reckon AJ bashing is pretty in vogue, that he has become champ by taking the easy route and that he isnt all that.

He is clearly building to a couple of major fights that will be career defining. Why would he rush into those. He also received a proper wake up call when he was knocked down by Ruiz, and has worked on some of his issues.

I basically just parrot what the comms said in the fight I watched the other night. But that seems to be a decent summary.
__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:40 AM   #9028
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Jaco's posts in the boxing section are akin to Dan Perkins posts in the Liverpool forum
Maybe more like Bob? Football ended when McMahon retired and I want to see players deliberately break other players legs. Almost verbatim to "Hagler was the last great fighter and even at 60 would knock out a prime Roy Jones or Jermaine Taylor".

Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:41 AM   #9029
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
Doubling down.



Whats your take? I reckon AJ bashing is pretty in vogue, that he has become champ by taking the easy route and that he isnt all that.

He is clearly building to a couple of major fights that will be career defining. Why would he rush into those. He also received a proper wake up call when he was knocked down by Ruiz, and has worked on some of his issues.

I basically just parrot what the comms said in the fight I watched the other night. But that seems to be a decent summary.
We'll know a lot more at the weigh in. If Joshua comes in a similar weight as he did for Ruiz 2 then he's going to try and box Uysk which is a mistake. I can't see Joshua out boxing Uysk over 12 rounds.

If he comes in heavy then he's going to try and blast Uysk out of there which is more than likely his best option.

As an aside the PPV is £25 on Sky . When did PPVs jump to £25?
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:43 AM   #9030
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapater View Post
Maybe more like Bob? Football ended when McMahon retired and I want to see players deliberately break other players legs. Almost verbatim to "Hagler was the last great fighter and even at 60 would knock out a prime Roy Jones or Jermaine Taylor".

There's that many doom merchants in the match day thread they all just blend into one
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:58 AM   #9031
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
We'll know a lot more at the weigh in. If Joshua comes in a similar weight as he did for Ruiz 2 then he's going to try and box Uysk which is a mistake. I can't see Joshua out boxing Uysk over 12 rounds.

If he comes in heavy then he's going to try and blast Uysk out of there which is more than likely his best option.

As an aside the PPV is £25 on Sky . When did PPVs jump to £25?
Interesting, will look out for that. All of the pundits have said the same that Usyk is a pretty capable operator and it will be a challenfge for Joshua.

£25 is to me a reasonable amount of cash to actually attend the fight in person

I will look for a stream somewhere, no danger I am paying that.
__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 11:58 AM   #9032
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Jaco,

Why bother posting in boxing? Any time you post you're generally taking a shit on the sport.

Is your contention that great cruisers can't transition to good heavyweights?

We had one of the best fights in years (the undisputed light welterweight fight) earlier in the year and there was hardly peep from either yourself or your fellow doom merchant Zapater about it.

Of course not. Holyfield is the obvious example of a great crusierweight that went on to become a great Heavyweight.


Michael Moorer would be an example of a guy who went from being smaller than a crusierweight when he went from being a damn good light heavyweight to being a pretty solid heavyweight.

Usyk however is not a great crusierweight in that he beat other great fights. He was a damn fine one though, but difficult to tell just how good thanks to how weak the division he left is. My gut feeling on him is that he would have been a proven great crusierweight though as I think he has talent, great footwork, is a clever technician, and has decent power at crusierweight level.

He is totally unproven as a heavyweight. Yet we have Sky and even Joshua himelf last night saying Usyk is a proven world class heavyweight. It is just hype on top of hype to make something seem special when the bout is certainly not so. His fight against Chisora does not really bode well for his against Joshua though. He basically outworked Chisora and at no point looked like he could really hurt him enough to force a stoppage. Had Chisora, who is pretty limited, come in to that fight in better physical condition and had the stamina to prevent the pretty awful fade he sent through from about the fifth round on, it might have been the end of any talk of Usyk being a world class heavyweight.

I have no issue if you think Joshua is a world class heavyweight (have no idea if you do or do not think so) or if you think Usyk is a proven heavyweight despite only having fought twice (against Chazza Whitherspoon and Derek Chisora)

And I do not shit on boxing as a whole. I tend to shit on the heavyweight division wheich is utter much with the likes of Joshaua and Fury being lauded as world class by promoters and netwiorks so casual watchers can feel like they are livng in some sort of golden age of heavyweight boxing and I also shit on the middleweight division for the same reasons.

I have loved boxing from when I first laced up gloves as a kid and still love the actual sort itself. But for me it has been sullied so so much by promoters, networks, multiple titles per visions and even multiple titles per organisation that it is very much a watered down version of what it once was.

For me boxing has become what a lot of people seem to be worried that football will become and it just pisses me off to see a sport I love, probably above any other sport, going through extended death throes.


As for the why bother posting in boxing....well I love the sport, I have boxed, I have coached it, so it is interesting for me when I read posts by others who either like the sport as a viewer or who competed in it like Zap did. I don't have to agree with what others post in here and will offer my own opinion even if it is not going with the flow of others and yes I do shit on certain divisions and on the politics of the sport but what I don't do is shit on any poster's right to be positive or negative about the sport or a fighter or fight.


As for Josh Taylor's fight. I think he is a smashing boxer and a smashing figher and his fight was a really good one. Sorry for not commenting enough on that but I am going through chemo and did not see that fight live. I don't always check this thread as generally it is pretty dead as most of the boxing chat here only seems to happen when there is a bigger fight in the news.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 12:08 PM   #9033
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Jaco's posts in the boxing section are akin to Dan Perkins posts in the Liverpool forum

Well if my posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity, maybe you could share your own takes and knowledge of the sport to counter my negative muck?


Not meaning this as a direct dig back at you or anyone else, more saying that one or two "doom merchants" should be pretty easy to blow out of the water if others in the thread decided to have positive and detailed chats about fighters or fights. I know I would genuinely enjoy reading posts like that and would love to be able to have debates about whether one fighters had the technical skills to counter another fighter's physical advantages and then maybe have a debate breaking down what the technical skills are and how they would or would not counter something.

The only guy on here that I have ever seen discussing the technical aspects of fighters in the past is usually Zap, and he is being called a doom merchant like me

Not looking to pick a fight with you as I like your posting all over the forum tbh and do like your posting in here too.

How about this then after I have cooled down a bit after my first reply to you.

Why not try to debate me when I am being negative in future. Come back with why you think I am wrong. Attack the post and not the poster and I will try to debate you on the topic and turn it into a chat that might be less negative for folk to read? Might force me to think more about my posts too
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 12:26 PM   #9034
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 132,094
I think you'll find I've offered up some technical analysis and forecasts, particularly when I said Usyk should punch the fuck out of Bellew's face.
__________________
That were absolute diabolical
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 12:29 PM   #9035
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
I think you'll find I've offered up some technical analysis and forecasts, particularly when I said Usyk should punch the fuck out of Bellew's face.





Though to be fair, every one says someone should punch the fuck out of Bellew's face
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 12:41 PM   #9036
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Well if my posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity, maybe you could share your own takes and knowledge of the sport to counter my negative muck?


Not meaning this as a direct dig back at you or anyone else, more saying that one or two "doom merchants" should be pretty easy to blow out of the water if others in the thread decided to have positive and detailed chats about fighters or fights. I know I would genuinely enjoy reading posts like that and would love to be able to have debates about whether one fighters had the technical skills to counter another fighter's physical advantages and then maybe have a debate breaking down what the technical skills are and how they would or would not counter something.

The only guy on here that I have ever seen discussing the technical aspects of fighters in the past is usually Zap, and he is being called a doom merchant like me

Not looking to pick a fight with you as I like your posting all over the forum tbh and do like your posting in here too.

How about this then after I have cooled down a bit after my first reply to you.

Why not try to debate me when I am being negative in future. Come back with why you think I am wrong. Attack the post and not the poster and I will try to debate you on the topic and turn it into a chat that might be less negative for folk to read? Might force me to think more about my posts too
Hold on. At no point did i ever say that your 'posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity'

Far from it. Yourself and Zap are two of the most knowledgeable boxing posters on the forum and i used to greatly enjoy your contributions to the thread. Which is why it's maddening to see you pull this Stadler and Waldorf impression and shit all over it.

It's the same two posts time and time again. Heavyweight boxing is shit. Tyson Fury is a cunt.

You may even be right on one or both points
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 12:55 PM   #9037
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Of course not. Holyfield is the obvious example of a great crusierweight that went on to become a great Heavyweight.


Michael Moorer would be an example of a guy who went from being smaller than a crusierweight when he went from being a damn good light heavyweight to being a pretty solid heavyweight.

Usyk however is not a great crusierweight in that he beat other great fights. He was a damn fine one though, but difficult to tell just how good thanks to how weak the division he left is. My gut feeling on him is that he would have been a proven great crusierweight though as I think he has talent, great footwork, is a clever technician, and has decent power at crusierweight level.

He is totally unproven as a heavyweight. Yet we have Sky and even Joshua himelf last night saying Usyk is a proven world class heavyweight. It is just hype on top of hype to make something seem special when the bout is certainly not so. His fight against Chisora does not really bode well for his against Joshua though. He basically outworked Chisora and at no point looked like he could really hurt him enough to force a stoppage. Had Chisora, who is pretty limited, come in to that fight in better physical condition and had the stamina to prevent the pretty awful fade he sent through from about the fifth round on, it might have been the end of any talk of Usyk being a world class heavyweight.

I have no issue if you think Joshua is a world class heavyweight (have no idea if you do or do not think so) or if you think Usyk is a proven heavyweight despite only having fought twice (against Chazza Whitherspoon and Derek Chisora)

And I do not shit on boxing as a whole. I tend to shit on the heavyweight division wheich is utter much with the likes of Joshaua and Fury being lauded as world class by promoters and netwiorks so casual watchers can feel like they are livng in some sort of golden age of heavyweight boxing and I also shit on the middleweight division for the same reasons.

I have loved boxing from when I first laced up gloves as a kid and still love the actual sort itself. But for me it has been sullied so so much by promoters, networks, multiple titles per visions and even multiple titles per organisation that it is very much a watered down version of what it once was.

For me boxing has become what a lot of people seem to be worried that football will become and it just pisses me off to see a sport I love, probably above any other sport, going through extended death throes.


As for the why bother posting in boxing....well I love the sport, I have boxed, I have coached it, so it is interesting for me when I read posts by others who either like the sport as a viewer or who competed in it like Zap did. I don't have to agree with what others post in here and will offer my own opinion even if it is not going with the flow of others and yes I do shit on certain divisions and on the politics of the sport but what I don't do is shit on any poster's right to be positive or negative about the sport or a fighter or fight.


As for Josh Taylor's fight. I think he is a smashing boxer and a smashing figher and his fight was a really good one. Sorry for not commenting enough on that but I am going through chemo and did not see that fight live. I don't always check this thread as generally it is pretty dead as most of the boxing chat here only seems to happen when there is a bigger fight in the news.
more like it.

I'm not a fan of Joshua for what it's worth. Never have been.

I think Fury is a very good boxer. Been a fan of his from the outset. He moves with a certain grace and elegance (honestly) that a man his size has no right in doing.

It's hard to set aside the person from the athlete. Boxing is and was full of absolute cunts. Some of the all time greats (and Mike Tyson) were horrible individuals yet are lauded for their achievements in the ring.

I agree there are so many issues within the sport of boxing. There's no quick fix to any of them.

Boxing News had an idea earlier in the year to counter the alphabet soup. They're only recognising one world champ per division.

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/no-...s-stance-here/


As for the chemo i hope you're on the mend
spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 01:03 PM   #9038
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Hold on. At no point did i ever say that your 'posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity'

Far from it. Yourself and Zap are two of the most knowledgeable boxing posters on the forum and i used to greatly enjoy your contributions to the thread. Which is why it's maddening to see you pull this Stadler and Waldorf impression and shit all over it.

It's the same two posts time and time again. Heavyweight boxing is shit. Tyson Fury is a cunt.

You may even be right on one or both points




Hang on a fucking minute with that shit, fella.


Am I Stadler or Waldorf?
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 01:23 PM   #9039
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
more like it.

I'm not a fan of Joshua for what it's worth. Never have been.

I think Fury is a very good boxer. Been a fan of his from the outset. He moves with a certain grace and elegance (honestly) that a man his size has no right in doing.

It's hard to set aside the person from the athlete. Boxing is and was full of absolute cunts. Some of the all time greats (and Mike Tyson) were horrible individuals yet are lauded for their achievements in the ring.

I agree there are so many issues within the sport of boxing. There's no quick fix to any of them.

Boxing News had an idea earlier in the year to counter the alphabet soup. They're only recognising one world champ per division.

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/no-...s-stance-here/


As for the chemo i hope you're on the mend

See that I cannot quite agree with. I would say he is a good boxer within certain parameters. But looking at him as a boxer in more general terms then
I see a lot of things about him that have deteriorated over the years and by that I mean things that are more down to possibly not doing the basics in training rather than age related deterioration.

I think he suffers from more than a touch of the Connor McGregor in that he reached a certain level, a peak if you will, in terms of his skillset and his application of that skillset and then seemed to stop doing a lot of it in the ring as well as he did or in videos of him training/sparring.

I can actually separate Fury the boxer from Fury the person quite easily, it is just that Fury the boxer is not impressive (by that I mean as an over all package) and less so than he may have been in the recent past.

I also think Fury has picked his opponents very very carefully. I think a lot of those he faced were picked to minimize any risk to his weaknesses maybe more than they were picked to suit his strengths.

What I have always given him credit for is his ability, and I hate how he does it as I find it as scummy as how McGregor does the exact same thing, to get into the head of an opponent. That he is very very good at and that can tip a fight in your favour before a bell is wrong. The most impressive show of this for me was in the build up to his fight against Wlad. He got into Wlad's head so much that Wlad was overly cautious of Fury's power rather than looking at the evidence from Fury's past fights. For me that will always be Furry's best win.

I do however think that Fury does, or maybe did, the basics better than Joshua does. Joshua to me is still very robotic and moves in a way that to this day reminds me of a much bigger Bruce Seldon. Just with the extra hitting power than comes from the extra size/weight/reach. Joshua I just find less interesting to pick apart stylistically than Fury as he attempts less by way of curveballs and has a very safe style that relies a lot more on his size than pure boxing ability. Put him in against a big heavyweight that could box beynd doing the basic well and that was strategic in how he changed things mid fight, say someone like Lennox Lewis, and I would fancy Joshua to be blown out of it within two rounds. Lewis would do to him what he did to Michael Grant. Grant and Seldon being the two fighters Johua always brings to mind for me.

Fury to me is someone who tries to copy stuff he has seen classic boxers do and he has tried to mimic and incorporate the styles of boxer fighters rather than more traditional heavyweight styles. I do not think he has nailed it, but you can see it in some of what he tries. Some of it makes him awkward to face, and some of it he does not need as it takes from his offensive game. But then again I do not think he minds losing offensive capabilities as he is very much a defensive first fighter and he plays the %s against any fighter there is a risk against more often than not imo.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-21, 01:23 PM   #9040
fidget
Shankly
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,867
Jaco bringing the truth as ever.
fidget is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > General > General Sports

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.