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Old 25-09-21, 11:25 PM   #9081
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Yip. I think we'll see a parting of Joshua and Rob McCracken after this outing.

Joshua's tactics are baffling.

Part of the issue is Joshua lack of ring IQ.

Usyk was masterful. Everything that made him a great cruiser he showed tonight. A world of difference from his two other heavy outings.

Be interesting to see him in against a heavy heavyweight who'll maul and smother Usyk
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Old 25-09-21, 11:29 PM   #9082
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Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.
I just don't get why a big man like Joshua would slim down to fight a smaller man. He should have stayed big and completely blow away the smaller man. That's what Fury would do. Usyk was brilliant. Didn't put a foot wrong.

YNWA

Think Joshua would have been stopped tonight had he come in heavier. His tank would have ran dry sooner and extra weight would not help him at all with that midrange distance he kept holding throughout the fight as he would have been even slower that he was tonight.


To take advantage of extra weight he would need to fight from range and/or work on the inside where body weight would make a difference and where he could us uppercuts.

What he showed again tonight was that he does not have the nous to change tactics during a fight when things are not going his way, and even worse is how his corner were unable to instruct him to do so between rounds. Either that or he was not listening to his corner.


As for Fury and extra weight. Fury is not a power guy for me so the extra weight would not be such an issue for him whether he had it or not as his regular fighting weight would give him an advantage imo as he is a very good spoiler and would spend a fight against Usyk leaning on him and wrestling in an ugly bout.

Fury would not try to get into a clean boxing match against Usyk imho. I think he would have a gameplan quite close to what he used against Wlad and I think he would get the same result against Usyk as he did against Wlad.
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Old 25-09-21, 11:34 PM   #9083
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Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.
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Old 25-09-21, 11:44 PM   #9084
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Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.


Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards
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Old 25-09-21, 11:46 PM   #9085
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Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards
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Old 26-09-21, 09:23 AM   #9086
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I enjoyed the fight. Pretty much how I expected it to go. Thought before that Usyk may win by KO and thought that would be on the money after those decent lefts. Usyk stepped back a little which may have been smart if he couldn't get him out early in terms of energy preservation and not being reckless. I only gave Joshua 2 or 3 rounds. Was pretty disappointed with some of the scorecards, particularly the 115-113 card. Insane judging.

Really good fight from Usyk, but that's to be expected with his amateur pedigree. It was always about if a bigger man could put something on him and Joshua didn't do that. I do think Usyk could beat Fury, but as mentioned above, it's a very different fight from this, Fury will be trying to put his fat on him and smother Usyk's tidy work. Would be a different tactical matchup.

Styles make fights, I don't know how there is any evidence in this fight that would suggest to Fury knocking Joshua out. Fury is a lot easier to hit than Usyk; slower, worse footwork/head movement, taller, has a lower workrate and would therefore result in a different matchup stylistically again. Yes, Fury could maybe move around a bit and tap Joshua but he's a much easier target and couldn't produce that workrate over 12 rounds.

Don't think a rematch bodes well for Joshua, but if he wants some more of it, he'll need to bring something different to the table. Still stand by what I said before the fight and feel that a multiple fights between these two change how they look due to the way these two could match up.

Oh and on the heavyweight obsession. Bellew on DAZN claiming that this is the best ever win by a Ukrainian and that Joshua has the best athleticism out of any heavyweight of all time. Exactly the type of comments that people believe as factual and really wind me up. Also saying something about Usyk not knowing what it's like to fight in occasions like this. I'm sure fighting Gassiev to unify the championships in a packed Olympic stadium in Moscow was a picnic of an atmosphere...

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Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.

YNWA
Bit harsh on both? I don't think he's amazing, but Joshua has won most of his fights handily. He was knocked out by Ruiz, an opponent of similar quality and was outdone by the better man in this fight. He's beaten what was in front of him for the rest. Bruno had a pretty good career himself, world champ, won most of his fights, only losing to the best.

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Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.


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Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards
See, I called it. 2 peas in a pod!
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Old 26-09-21, 09:36 AM   #9087
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I'm just shocked there were no takers on my Andre Ward beats Roy Jones Jr at Super Middleweight comment


Two guys who in their own way had some freakishly good physical gifts outside of their very high quality skill sets.
I'm in agreement with that. Good call. Hard to tell because when we think of Jones we think about post-Tarver Jones too even though this wasn't necessarily on the discussion in this hypothetical match up. I just think Ward is a freak, really underrated. He's every bit as good as Mayweather. His ring savvy and dirtiness take him a level up too, particularly against Jones who would be looking to get clean punches off. Breaking up his rhythm and using spoiling tactics could make it difficult for Jones to get off. I actually think Hopkins vs Ward at light heavy would be an interesting match-up. Maybe not a great watch, but a fucking touch fight. James Toney is also a possible awkward one for Ward.
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Old 26-09-21, 09:43 AM   #9088
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I'm not sure any Super middle would have laid a glove on the Jones Jr that shutout James Toney.

He was imperious that night
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Old 26-09-21, 09:53 AM   #9089
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I'm not sure any Super middle would have laid a glove on the Jones Jr that shutout James Toney.

He was imperious that night
I think that fight has to be considered when thinking about match ups against Ward or similar types of opponents. Toney knows every defensive trick in the book was a master counter puncher and at that stage was undefeated and was still in good shape. It's a shame none of Benn, Watson and Eubank got in the ring with Jones, Hopkins and Toney. I think, from memory Mike McCallum had quite a few of the good names on the UK and US on his resume.
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Old 26-09-21, 11:57 AM   #9090
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I'm in agreement with that. Good call. Hard to tell because when we think of Jones we think about post-Tarver Jones too even though this wasn't necessarily on the discussion in this hypothetical match up. I just think Ward is a freak, really underrated. He's every bit as good as Mayweather. His ring savvy and dirtiness take him a level up too, particularly against Jones who would be looking to get clean punches off. Breaking up his rhythm and using spoiling tactics could make it difficult for Jones to get off. I actually think Hopkins vs Ward at light heavy would be an interesting match-up. Maybe not a great watch, but a fucking touch fight. James Toney is also a possible awkward one for Ward.

Will start by saying Jones Jr is an ATG in my eyes, he was that good.

But Ward is one of the few boxers that I have watched a lot of, and then went back to watch a lot of tapes of, who did things I still cannot figure out or see coming no matter how many times I watch a replay or gets to see footage slowed down.

Jones jr did things that only Jones jr could do, but when you watched the tape you could figure out how he was doing it or what there was about him that allowed him to do it at a level nobody else could come close to matching.

Ward is the best and purest switch hitter I have seen in my life. Have watched him in fights, some from ring side some on tv, and even have seen footage of his sparring and he was able to switch stances with no tell at all at times.

I have never seen a fighter do it so well and so often, and even when you are looking for the switch and watching a round for the tenth time, you know he is going to have switched stance at a what ever minute of a round but you still cannot see any body tells that is was coming.


He could go into throwing a combination from an orthodox stance and then tha final punch or two from the combo would be getting thrown from a flawless southpaw stance and everything about his body would be in that southpaw stance. Then you play it back and there is no shoulder drop, no slight jerk in the hip, just nothing about his body movement to show he was switching stance.

His ability to do that just totally throws the other fighter, it negates a guy with faster reflexes as the faster guy is suddenly having to adjust his own stance as everything has been reversed on him, it forces a bigger hitter into defensive mode, it is just so pure and so elegant a thing to be able to do on that level.


I think against Jones Jr, Ward would be constantly changing stance and swith hitting, his defence would be good enough to take a lot of what Jones did well, and Ward's skillset was as good as that of Jones. Ward was also capable of being a dirty fucker as you say, and he had that aggreesive defensiveness that I love to see in fighters.

The Mayweather comparsion is a great one. I would agree with that as I thik Ward was on a level slightly above Mayweather in terms of talent, ring skills, ring IQ, spatial awareness and ability to change his game plan or apporach three or four times per round. Ward as also very durable and able to take hits and they guy could hit pretty well to.


Him vs Hopkins would have been fascinating. That would have gone between being a tactical masterclass for the purists to being a masterclass in dirty tactics.

Ward vs Toney I think Ward actually wins by a few clear rounds. I love Toney and think he was amazing at a few weights, but I think Hopkins could do what Toney did better than Toney and I think Ward does that better than Hopkins.

Of those four, and only taking the Super middleweight and Light heavy divsions into account I would rank them in the following order.


Ward, Jones Jr, Hopkins, Toney
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Old 26-09-21, 01:04 PM   #9091
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Joshua even without the titles has fights v Wilder and Fury to go for even if they are just to genereate box office ££$$
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Old 26-09-21, 01:39 PM   #9092
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Joshua even without the titles has fights v Wilder and Fury to go for even if they are just to genereate box office ££$$

And that is exactly the sort of thing that further devalues the division. A fighter who lost the titles being the a bigger draw in non title fights than the belt holder.

It just becomes an exercise in protecting the golden geese rather than being champion meaning anything.

I even disagree with Joshua having the option of an automatic rematch. That option should not be an option when a champion loses so clearly. You lose your belts in an emphatic manner, then you should have to earn your way back to getting a shot. I know that is a very idealistic view and not how things actually work, especially for the fighters who have a big promoter to help gloss over losses and to hype belts only when the cash cow fighter has them.

Proper order now would be for the winner of Fury/Wilder (assuming there is not yet another need to pull out of a fight for that one, and not even sure which one of them I think is the more likely to do it) to get a crack at Usyk as the next number one contender.
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Old 26-09-21, 01:44 PM   #9093
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And re-matches stop all respective divisions from being unified
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Old 26-09-21, 01:51 PM   #9094
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And re-matches stop all respective divisions from being unified


Not always, but would agree they do contribute towards more fractured divisions in some cases.
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Old 26-09-21, 02:01 PM   #9095
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And re-matches stop all respective divisions from being unified
Joshua was a unified champion.

Undisputed is what you meant? Rarer than hens teeth in boxing.
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Old 26-09-21, 02:04 PM   #9096
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I watched that last night and it seemed everything people predicted happened and that Joshua wasn’t prepared for it.

I wouldn’t fight any Ukrainian tbf. I reckon 90% of them are capable of fighting for world title belts. Imagine the mentality that 100’s of years of hardship develops. They don’t give a fuck.

I reckon AJ is ‘scared’ of getting hit. Worried about his chin. He kept trying to fight from distance but was absorbing so much and losing round after round as he did so. He never truly engaged.

That’s the lay punters view anyway.
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Old 26-09-21, 02:06 PM   #9097
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I think that fight has to be considered when thinking about match ups against Ward or similar types of opponents. Toney knows every defensive trick in the book was a master counter puncher and at that stage was undefeated and was still in good shape. It's a shame none of Benn, Watson and Eubank got in the ring with Jones, Hopkins and Toney. I think, from memory Mike McCallum had quite a few of the good names on the UK and US on his resume.
I think we all know the reason why Benn and Eubank never got into a ring with Jones, Hopkins or Toney.

We'd have seen Benn exposed again for the crude slugger he was. Toney vs Benn would have been similar to the beating Toney dished out to Iran Barkley.

Watson would probably have had the best chance out of the three Brits but tragically never got the chance
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Old 26-09-21, 02:20 PM   #9098
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I think we all know the reason why Benn and Eubank never got into a ring with Jones, Hopkins or Toney.

We'd have seen Benn exposed again for the crude slugger he was. Toney vs Benn would have been similar to the beating Toney dished out to Iran Barkley.

Watson would probably have had the best chance out of the three Brits but tragically never got the chance


Yep, they were not dumb enough to want to be on the wrong end of a one sided hiding.
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Old 26-09-21, 02:28 PM   #9099
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Throwing the wildcard of Joe Calzaghe into the mix. Fought over half his career with hands so damaged he rarely put full power into his punches.
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Old 26-09-21, 09:04 PM   #9100
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Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.
I just don't get why a big man like Joshua would slim down to fight a smaller man. He should have stayed big and completely blow away the smaller man. That's what Fury would do. Usyk was brilliant. Didn't put a foot wrong.

YNWA
I said on rawk that he has too many yes men around him telling him how great he is when in reality he isn't. Too many people were sleeping on Usyk and didn't give him the respect he deserves. Anyone who has followed his career will have known his style would give AJ fits. He's elusive, fleet footed and throws punches from angles. His lateral movement and feints was always going to give AJ, who is stiff, has poor foot work and only moves forward in straight lines, problems.

Usyk's southpaw jab totally confused AJ. He used left straight and looping left hook off it. That's why AJ didn't come forward and bully Usyk like all the "experts" were saying he should have done . Not one of the so called expert analysts, commentators etc said a single word about a southpaw vs orthodox dynamics which is basic boxing. When youíre the southpaw, if you get your foot on the outside of the orthodox guy, you shorten the path to your straight left, and you lengthen the path to his straight right and your jab hand is closer to him and therefore you can hit him from an angle where he canít hit your back. That is the southpaw game one on one. Usyk was doing that all night. He was knocking down Ajís lead jab which took it completely out and he was out of the way from Ajís power shot. He was constantly changing and circling. AJ didn't have an answer. The rounds that he lost is when he stood inside and went toe to toe and AJ caught him a few times.

The rematch will be no different. AJ's style cannot beat Usyk imo. He has literally just got a punchers chance.

I do think Usyk would give Fury problems, though. Tyson has clear foot speed, co-ordination advantage over the likes of Joshua, Wilder etc. However, Usyk can match Fury in foot speed and co-ordination and can neutralise the advantage that Fury has over the others in co-ordination. I would sill back Fury (not being biased ) to win but it would be an interesting match up.
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Old 26-09-21, 11:01 PM   #9101
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Throwing the wildcard of Joe Calzaghe into the mix. Fought over half his career with hands so damaged he rarely put full power into his punches.


Prime Jones Jr beats him for me and beats him by stopping him. Jones Jr was badly faded when Calzaghe beat him, and his reflexes were shot at that point. Prime Jones puts him down early just like faded Jones did, only Prime Jones would then go and finish the job


Ward schools Calzaghe imho. Ward would have too many gears to go through each time Calzaghe tried to up his own game. Ward is a genuine P4P great in my eyes and operated at a much higher level than Calzaghe. Calzaghe is not going to out think Ward, he is not going to be able to blitz him with speed, he is not going to frighten him with power, he is in no world going to out skill him.

Prime Hopkins vs Calzaghe would have been an interesting one, certainly more interesting than when they did meet. Think Hopkins was 43 or 44 when Calzaghe beat him on points. Was still a good version of Hopkins despite his age, but a younger him vs Calzaghe at the same age would have been very tight.


Calzaghe vs peak Toney. Going to go with a potential draw in that, and think it would be a similar type of fight as when Toney fought first fought Mike McCallum. Think sometimes styles make fights and Calzaghe's style of fight is one that on the right night would have bothered Toney imo.


Probably sounds like I don't think a lot of Joe though. The truth is I see him as being on a tier above the likes of Benn, Eubank or Watson but a tier or two below peak Jones jr, or Ward.
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Old 26-09-21, 11:25 PM   #9102
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I said on rawk that he has too many yes men around him telling him how great he is when in reality he isn't. Too many people were sleeping on Usyk and didn't give him the respect he deserves. Anyone who has followed his career will have known his style would give AJ fits. He's elusive, fleet footed and throws punches from angles. His lateral movement and feints was always going to give AJ, who is stiff, has poor foot work and only moves forward in straight lines, problems.

Usyk's southpaw jab totally confused AJ. He used left straight and looping left hook off it. That's why AJ didn't come forward and bully Usyk like all the "experts" were saying he should have done . Not one of the so called expert analysts, commentators etc said a single word about a southpaw vs orthodox dynamics which is basic boxing. When youíre the southpaw, if you get your foot on the outside of the orthodox guy, you shorten the path to your straight left, and you lengthen the path to his straight right and your jab hand is closer to him and therefore you can hit him from an angle where he canít hit your back. That is the southpaw game one on one. Usyk was doing that all night. He was knocking down Ajís lead jab which took it completely out and he was out of the way from Ajís power shot. He was constantly changing and circling. AJ didn't have an answer. The rounds that he lost is when he stood inside and went toe to toe and AJ caught him a few times.

The rematch will be no different. AJ's style cannot beat Usyk imo. He has literally just got a punchers chance.

I do think Usyk would give Fury problems, though. Tyson has clear foot speed, co-ordination advantage over the likes of Joshua, Wilder etc. However, Usyk can match Fury in foot speed and co-ordination and can neutralise the advantage that Fury has over the others in co-ordination. I would sill back Fury (not being biased ) to win but it would be an interesting match up.

Good take on things.


Staying at mid range killed Joshua against a leftie imo. By staying at midrange round after round he allowed Usyk to pretty much set the tempo and it played to all of Usyk's strengths. Faster hands, better reflexes, more fluid boxing style, lovely footwork all came into play at mid range along with Usyk not having to work hard when he wanted to go inside and back out again. Also meant Joshua's size advantage meant very little as he was in too close to use a jab with any effect and too far out to try and attempt to work on the inside.

No rightie likes taking on a good leftie, but you still do not make it easy for te leftie and you stick to the fundamentals until you can time the leftie. Usyk keeping his front foot on the outside is a good point, but a rightie can keep his foot on the outside against a southpaw to control a fight too which Joshua did not try to do once. Joshua did not try to even mirror Usyk's stance in order to have any sort of chance to compete to get a front foot on the outside.

Usyk on the other hand mirrored Joshua time after time and then would either throw a jab (often just a single jab), a high hook or a cross and then get his feet into the dominant position, and even worse there were times when he just literally was let walk right up and take the dominant position.

Agree on the Fury/Usyk take. Usyk can do what Fury does better than other heavies, only better, but Fury for me beats him by fighting ugly and spoiling for 12 rounds. Think Usyk would give Fury more problems during the fight than Wlad did though. Think Usyk would be a more difficult cat to get mind games to work against. To paraphrase Josey Wales "Usyk has got crazy eyes"
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Old 26-09-21, 11:28 PM   #9103
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Probably sounds like I don't think a lot of Joe though. The truth is I see him as being on a tier above the likes of Benn, Eubank or Watson but a tier or two below peak Jones jr, or Ward.
A fair assessment. I saw him make his debut on the Lewis Bruno undercard and really enjoyed his career.
Canít think of any other UK boxer apart from Terry Marsh who retired undefeated.
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Old 26-09-21, 11:50 PM   #9104
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A fair assessment. I saw him make his debut on the Lewis Bruno undercard and really enjoyed his career.
Canít think of any other UK boxer apart from Terry Marsh who retired undefeated.

Calzaghe's record, when picked apart with the cold eyes of hindsight, does stack up well. Plenty of names on his record that get scoffed at a little bit but that nobody was making fun of before Calzaghe beat them.

In some ways his record is a little like that of Lennox Lewis in that respect. After Lewis had beaten the likes of Tua and Golota with some ease, people tried to play them down as being easy wins, but before any of them faced Lewis they were being lauded as genuine threats to anyone in the division.

Calzaghe I think had a lot of the same going on at times when people were trying to diss who he had faced and beaten. I know I was guilty a few times of trying to dismiss him, mainly because he beat fighters I liked lol, but he is easily one of the best British boxers of all time, and in my lifetime the only British boxer I have seen that was operating at a higher level than him was the afore mentioned Lennox Lewis.

Josh Taylor might be the one to challenge him for being the second best British boxer I have seen in my lifetime though if he works his way through a few more quality contenders and Taylor might well have a shout at retiring undefeated too.
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Old 27-09-21, 01:13 AM   #9105
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Usyk's southpaw jab totally confused AJ. He used left straight and looping left hook off it. That's why AJ didn't come forward and bully Usyk like all the "experts" were saying he should have done . Not one of the so called expert analysts, commentators etc said a single word about a southpaw vs orthodox dynamics which is basic boxing. When youíre the southpaw, if you get your foot on the outside of the orthodox guy, you shorten the path to your straight left, and you lengthen the path to his straight right and your jab hand is closer to him and therefore you can hit him from an angle where he canít hit your back. That is the southpaw game one on one. Usyk was doing that all night. He was knocking down Ajís lead jab which took it completely out and he was out of the way from Ajís power shot. He was constantly changing and circling. AJ didn't have an answer. The rounds that he lost is when he stood inside and went toe to toe and AJ caught him a few times.
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I'll try to find and post the video where Marquez and Manny discuss this. It's really good - I think it's the face to face before their 3rd fight on HBO. It's also funny because they're demonstrating live in their limited English. On the subject of that, Canelo's English seems to be coming along, describing Plant as insecure.

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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Josh Taylor might be the one to challenge him for being the second best British boxer I have seen in my lifetime though if he works his way through a few more quality contenders and Taylor might well have a shout at retiring undefeated too.
I think it depends what some other fighters do and which fights he has. I see Mikey Garcia is continuing at welterweight. If he dropped down, I think he'd take care of Taylor. Could also depend if Taylor wants to move to welterweight because there are some tough fights there.
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Old 27-09-21, 01:39 AM   #9106
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Pretty chuffed I can remember that detail 11 years later. Around the 6 min and 10:30 min marks. It's less in depth than I thought, there was possibly another one somewhere. At least this gave a basic overview of the mechanics, which this coverage didn't touch. Although, in all honesty I could be wrong because I only watched the main event on DAZN. Didn't bother with any of the build up, no idea what was mentioned elsewhere.
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Old 27-09-21, 10:47 AM   #9107
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I'll try to find and post the video where Marquez and Manny discuss this. It's really good - I think it's the face to face before their 3rd fight on HBO. It's also funny because they're demonstrating live in their limited English. On the subject of that, Canelo's English seems to be coming along, describing Plant as insecure.



I think it depends what some other fighters do and which fights he has. I see Mikey Garcia is continuing at welterweight. If he dropped down, I think he'd take care of Taylor. Could also depend if Taylor wants to move to welterweight because there are some tough fights there.

Is why I said it would be if he worked his way through a few more quality contenders.


I can see the arguement for Garcia being able to beat Taylor at light welter, but I think it is a 50/50 fight myself at that weight and if Taylor moves up to welterweight I think that 50/50 might become 60/40 or better in favour of Taylor.


For me Errol Spence jr would be a bigger threat to Taylor if the latter moved up a weight, though I think I might still fancy Taylor in that one too.

Think Taylor is a very big light welterweight and that he might even have the frame to be a very big welterweight. He also appears that he would be able to go up a weight and keep his speed whilst getting the benefit being that bit more solid and strong with the extra weight. All just opinion of course but he looks good enough to mix with the likes of Spence etc imo.

That whole Light welter and welter region of the boxing spectrum has been crazily consistent the past 15 to 20 years in churning out high level talent, especially the past 15 years, think it is now in terms of constant talent what the middleweight division was from the 1970s to the 1990s. Even a lot of the not quite top tier guys in the LW and W divisions going back ten years or so have been of a very high quality. Guys like Matthysse, Molina Jr, Provodnikov, Postol etc
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Old 27-09-21, 11:00 AM   #9108
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Gutted that Joshua has turned out the way he has. I know he's not Ali talent-wise but I really thought he had enough to dominate at heavyweight when he turned pro (largely due to the fact there was little competition).

Nowadays he's more of an influencer than a boxer. Shite.

Boxing is just another slowly dying sport now if we are brutally honest isn't it?
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Old 27-09-21, 11:03 AM   #9109
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Mikey Garcia? Errol Spence?

Calm down chaps. Josh has more than earned the right to a couple of gimmie fights.

He's back out in December fighting Jack Catterall in Glasgow.

Wouldn't surprise me if he moves up to 147 in the later part of 2022.
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Old 27-09-21, 11:25 AM   #9110
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Gutted that Joshua has turned out the way he has. I know he's not Ali talent-wise but I really thought he had enough to dominate at heavyweight when he turned pro (largely due to the fact there was little competition).

Nowadays he's more of an influencer than a boxer. Shite.

Boxing is just another slowly dying sport now if we are brutally honest isn't it?
Never seen a boxer less arsed by a defeat, compare with Josh Warrington who was devaseted when beaten, Joshua seems not to care in the slightest, He knows his next fight will still be an arena full and the money making hype machine will continue for a while yet.
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Old 27-09-21, 11:29 AM   #9111
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Mikey Garcia? Errol Spence?

Calm down chaps.
Josh has more than earned the right to a couple of gimmie fights.

He's back out in December fighting Jack Catterall in Glasgow.

Wouldn't surprise me if he moves up to 147 in the later part of 2022.


Calm down? What are you on about?



Have not seen anyone at all say he should not have a few routine bouts mixed in between taking on the better fighters, in fact his next fight is exactly that.

My comments are springing from the fact that I think he is on track to potentially becoming one of the very best British boxers of all time on top of being the best current British boxer, and that he would cement that if and when he beats a few more top contenders. That is hardly saying he needs to fight nobody but the best in every fight from here on in. I just think he might go on to do a lot more high level stuff than he already has.

As for Garcia, I was replying to Zap's comment about him and offering Spence back as the one I think would be more of a challenge for Taylor. Neither of us said he should be fighting either of them next. Think it says a lot about Taylor that those are the sort of names people think are his peers now.
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Old 27-09-21, 11:30 AM   #9112
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Never seen a boxer less arsed by a defeat, compare with Josh Warrington who was devaseted when beaten, Joshua seems not to care in the slightest, He knows his next fight will still be an arena full and the money making hype machine will continue for a while yet.


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Old 27-09-21, 11:55 AM   #9113
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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Calm down? What are you on about?



Have not seen anyone at all say he should not have a few routine bouts mixed in between taking on the better fighters, in fact his next fight is exactly that.

My comments are springing from the fact that I think he is on track to potentially becoming one of the very best British boxers of all time on top of being the best current British boxer, and that he would cement that if and when he beats a few more top contenders. That is hardly saying he needs to fight nobody but the best in every fight from here on in. I just think he might go on to do a lot more high level stuff than he already has.

As for Garcia, I was replying to Zap's comment about him and offering Spence back as the one I think would be more of a challenge for Taylor. Neither of us said he should be fighting either of them next. Think it says a lot about Taylor that those are the sort of names people think are his peers now.


147 really is a shark pool.

Interesting thoughts on Garcia. Despite the alphabet title he's shown that he's struggles against elite boxers at 147.

I think Taylor may be too big for him even at 140. Garcia struggled mightily at 147 against Spence. Would be a cracking fight. Though i think Taylors got his eyes elsewhere. He's already talking about a fight with Crawford. Not sure if Crawford will still be at 147 by the time Taylor moves up but it'd be a great fight.
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Old 27-09-21, 12:08 PM   #9114
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147 really is a shark pool.

Interesting thoughts on Garcia. Despite the alphabet title he's shown that he's struggles against elite boxers at 147.

I think Taylor may be too big for him even at 140. Garcia struggled mightily at 147 against Spence. Would be a cracking fight. Though i think Taylors got his eyes elsewhere. He's already talking about a fight with Crawford. Not sure if Crawford will still be at 147 by the time Taylor moves up but it'd be a great fight.

Garcia struggled against Spence for the exact same reason I think he would run into trouble against Taylor, and that is because Spence is big and very solid for a welter (not to mention really talented). Taylor for me would be even bigger a welter than Spence is as he appears to have the sort of frame that would allow for a larger weight gain and for the gain to be spread quite evenly. Plus Taylor brings the high level talent along with the size.

The reason I think Taylor/Garcia would be closer at light welter than welter is simply down to size. I think Taylor would still be bigger at LW than Garcia but that the gap would be more extreme at welter.

Garcia I think is close to being an elite fighter but not quite. I see him as being quite similar on that score to the other Garcia, Danny, was in that he is good enough to be a genuine champion, good enough to beat the majority of the good fighters in the division but would come up short more often than not if a truly world class operator started to work through the division he was in.

Mikey Garcia is at that level for me. Good enough to beat almost everyone in the division, maybe good enough to shock a world class fighter if the WC fighter is not at 100% on a given night, but not good enough to be that world class boxer himself over a prolonged period of time.
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Old 27-09-21, 12:32 PM   #9115
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Joshua seems more content doing those Lynx adverts
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Old 27-09-21, 05:03 PM   #9116
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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Good take on things.


Staying at mid range killed Joshua against a leftie imo. By staying at midrange round after round he allowed Usyk to pretty much set the tempo and it played to all of Usyk's strengths. Faster hands, better reflexes, more fluid boxing style, lovely footwork all came into play at mid range along with Usyk not having to work hard when he wanted to go inside and back out again. Also meant Joshua's size advantage meant very little as he was in too close to use a jab with any effect and too far out to try and attempt to work on the inside.

No rightie likes taking on a good leftie, but you still do not make it easy for te leftie and you stick to the fundamentals until you can time the leftie. Usyk keeping his front foot on the outside is a good point, but a rightie can keep his foot on the outside against a southpaw to control a fight too which Joshua did not try to do once. Joshua did not try to even mirror Usyk's stance in order to have any sort of chance to compete to get a front foot on the outside.

Usyk on the other hand mirrored Joshua time after time and then would either throw a jab (often just a single jab), a high hook or a cross and then get his feet into the dominant position, and even worse there were times when he just literally was let walk right up and take the dominant position.

Agree on the Fury/Usyk take. Usyk can do what Fury does better than other heavies, only better, but Fury for me beats him by fighting ugly and spoiling for 12 rounds. Think Usyk would give Fury more problems during the fight than Wlad did though. Think Usyk would be a more difficult cat to get mind games to work against. To paraphrase Josey Wales "Usyk has got crazy eyes"
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Old 27-09-21, 05:04 PM   #9117
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Face Off with Max Kellerman: Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez - YouTube

Pretty chuffed I can remember that detail 11 years later. Around the 6 min and 10:30 min marks. It's less in depth than I thought, there was possibly another one somewhere. At least this gave a basic overview of the mechanics, which this coverage didn't touch. Although, in all honesty I could be wrong because I only watched the main event on DAZN. Didn't bother with any of the build up, no idea what was mentioned elsewhere.
Thanks for this. Will give it a watch.
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Old 28-09-21, 08:06 AM   #9118
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Never seen a boxer less arsed by a defeat, compare with Josh Warrington who was devaseted when beaten, Joshua seems not to care in the slightest, He knows his next fight will still be an arena full and the money making hype machine will continue for a while yet.
Just seen that Joshua somehow appears in the new FIFA22. Says it all really
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Old 28-09-21, 10:43 AM   #9119
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Just seen that Joshua somehow appears in the new FIFA22. Says it all really

Hope his defensive and offensive stats are pretty low in it so it reflects reality.

Fecks sake though. Anthony Joshua in bloody Fifa. That is going to mess up my source of footy knowledge. Just wait a month or two and I will be in the footy forum going on about this young up and comer that I have personally scouted. An Anthony J that plays with a London club
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Old 28-09-21, 11:46 AM   #9120
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boxing thread is back on track.

Loving the contributions in recent days

Decent season of boxing ahead.

Fury, Taylor, Crawford, Lopez and Alvarez out in the next few months. And hopefully we see Inoue fight again before the year is out.
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