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Old 17-05-21, 04:31 PM   #2241
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I love Shaq but thought he was absolutely shite when he came on yesterday. Mane had a bit of a mare too but I'd stick with Sadio.

if you’re an opposition defender you defo wouldn’t take Sadio’s threat lightly, even given his form. I think it gives Mo a better chance of getting some space, having Sadio in the team. A front 3 of Bobby, shaq and Mo, would feel like a stop Salah and you stop Liverpool kind of lineup.
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Old 17-05-21, 05:18 PM   #2242
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Shaq did instigate a great move which should have seen Gini score though. He did help us keep possession and retain patience. Thing is with these fringe players, they need games to be able to get to their level. Klopp doesn't rotate extensively like Pep for example, which has its downsides.
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Old 17-05-21, 07:33 PM   #2243
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I love Shaq but thought he was absolutely shite when he came on yesterday. Mane had a bit of a mare too but I'd stick with Sadio.
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Old 17-05-21, 08:22 PM   #2244
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I thought he was sharp. Down to him Salah scored as he kept moving and was alive to nick the ball back. Of course, not at his best, but I'd rather have him around than not.
Works his socks off, just getting no luck at the moment. Form is temporary
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Old 17-05-21, 09:14 PM   #2245
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And it’s over?
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Old 13-09-21, 05:12 PM   #2246
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Too many images to c&p on phone, but if anyone is interested, I'll maybe do it after dog walk.

Basically Sadio is great.
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Old 13-09-21, 05:16 PM   #2247
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I’m interested
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Old 13-09-21, 05:21 PM   #2248
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He was really good yesterday apart from his finishing. But he never gave up and finally got a goal.
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Old 13-09-21, 05:23 PM   #2249
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He was really good yesterday apart from his finishing. But he never gave up and finally got a goal.
I agree. Last year his overall play was all over the place as well as his shooting. Now he looks back to being really direct and causing havoc, but his finishing is erratic.

His positioning when Salah scored was also bizarre. Sometimes it’s as if he forgets the rules!
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Old 13-09-21, 06:18 PM   #2250
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Cox: Mane spinning both ways makes him a dangerous option through the middle



Liverpool, Leeds, Premier League
By Michael Cox 5h ago 27
Not for the first time, Sadio Mane’s fine performance in Liverpool’s 3-0 victory over Leeds was overshadowed by the contribution of Mohamed Salah. It was the Egyptian who scored Liverpool’s opener, which brought up his 100th Premier League goal and inevitably dominated the headlines. Mane had to wait until the 92nd minute — and his 10th shot of the match — before getting onto the scoresheet.

But this was a contest made for Mane, against a Leeds side using their typically aggressive man-to-man press across the pitch. Whereas Salah was a threat primarily with his speed in behind, Mane was capable of coming short to receive the ball to feet, spinning past opponents and turning in either direction. He was Liverpool’s key attacker.

While Diogo Jota is arguably ahead of the injured Roberto Firmino in Jurgen Klopp’s pecking order at the moment, this would have been a useful match for Firmino. His deep positioning between the lines would have caused Leeds’ man-marking problems, and his recent performance against Chelsea demonstrated how effective he remains at collecting the ball in clever positions between the lines. Jota, for all his qualities running towards the opposition goal, isn’t quite as adept as Firmino in those situations. Therefore the attacker playing the Firmino role here was, effectively, Mane.

Mane has rarely been used centrally under Klopp. Since Salah’s arrival in 2017 — which saw Mane switched from the right to the left — he’s played 89 per cent of minutes on the left and only two per cent through the middle.




Here, although Mane’s starting position was on the left, he spent the majority of the first half peeling off into central positions, with Jota drifting left. Here’s a good example in the early stages — Jota with a forward pass from the left to Mane, who takes the ball in his stride and feeds Harvey Elliott on the run.





This move ended with Mane receiving the ball in a classic Firmino position and trying to slip in Elliott again, although the pass was overhit.



This became a recurring theme — Mane moving inside from the left, receiving the ball in great positions, but getting the final pass wrong. Here he senses the space between the lines, collects a forward ball from Fabinho, but his first-time pass is played to Liam Cooper, rather than to Jota or Salah.





Three minutes later, here’s a similar situation to the first one — it’s that same Jota pass into Mane, who receives the ball on the turn away from the defender and plays in Salah, although the ball is played into feet rather than in behind.



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Old 13-09-21, 06:18 PM   #2251
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Another move along the same lines ends with Mane swapping passes with Salah, before thumping a shot wide.





Mane’s ability to receive the ball with either foot on the turn means his team-mates are happy to play the ball to him in quite an aggressive manner.

Here’s a good example — Thiago, perhaps the Premier League’s best player at playing the right type of passes into team-mates, doesn’t play the ball directly to Mane’s feet here, but instead plays a very strong pass in front of him, that would allow Mane to turn and receive the ball across his body.

In this instance, Mane instead elects to retain possession and drag his opponent up the pitch. Again, this is the type of position you might expect to see Firmino dropping into. In some situations moving forward, when Firmino is unavailable, it might be Mane rather than Jota who makes sense through the middle.





The other key feature was how comfortable Mane was receiving the ball in situations where he needed to use his body.

Here, Salah chips the ball to him inside the box, up against Diego Llorente. Not only does Mane control the ball and spin instantly, he then gets himself into a position where Llorente isn’t sure whether he’ll cut inside onto his left, or go down the line on his right. Twice Mane stands him up, threatens to go inside and then darts down the outside, before chipping a cross into the six-yard box.





Last edited by RedReet; 13-09-21 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 13-09-21, 06:19 PM   #2252
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Now an unusual example in a central position — Mane is again coming inside, Jota plays the ball to him and then makes an overlapping run to the left — but Mane’s concern is Kalvin Phillips. He receives the ball in a position to shield it from Phillips, uses his opponent as a way to turn quickly, almost exploding off him onto the ball, and then shoots with his left foot. It’s remarkable how far behind Phillips is left.







Here’s another situation where he uses his body well, receiving a ball around the corner from Salah and putting himself between Cooper and the ball — not actually touching it, but making sure he makes his run in a manner that means he’s fouled, earning Cooper a booking.





And here’s some more confident back-to-goal play, this time holding off the defender, dragging in another opponent and then backheeling the ball through to a team-mate.





Mane’s goal eventually arrived in stoppage time. It was another example of how defenders don’t know in which direction he’ll spin — when he receives this ball from Thiago, Cooper might have expected him to take the ball on the run, continue onto his left foot and shoot across the goalkeeper. No. Instead, Mane let the ball run across his body, controlled it with his left foot, then spun and finished with his right.



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Old 13-09-21, 06:20 PM   #2253
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That’s what makes Mane so difficult to play against — he can go either way. This goal looks tremendously simple, but it’s only possible because of the possibility of Mane doing the opposite, and the goal was reminiscent of one he scored against West Ham in February 2019, when he received a cut-back from James Milner and spun away from Issa Diop, who was almost left on the floor by the speed of Mane’s turn.





It would be wrong to call that goal a carbon copy, though. It’s not — it’s a mirror image, and that only hammers home the point.
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Old 13-09-21, 06:22 PM   #2254
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Nice mate - thanks!
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Old 13-09-21, 06:23 PM   #2255
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The 10 image limit was a bit of a ballache, but hopefully it's readable.
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Old 13-09-21, 06:25 PM   #2256
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The 10 image limit was a bit of a ballache, but hopefully it's readable.
I'll let you off this time, but if you could sort it out for next
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Old 13-09-21, 06:39 PM   #2257
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That article wont be popular with the 'Mane in crisis' crowd, but it does back up that his overall play was really strong yesterday. If he'd banged in the 5 goals he should of it would be beyond argument.
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Old 13-09-21, 06:55 PM   #2258
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That article wont be popular with the 'Mane in crisis' crowd, but it does back up that his overall play was really strong yesterday. If he'd banged in the 5 goals he should of it would be beyond argument.
We would like to think that but well this is the internet........
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Old 13-09-21, 07:06 PM   #2259
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That article wont be popular with the 'Mane in crisis' crowd, but it does back up that his overall play was really strong yesterday. If he'd banged in the 5 goals he should of it would be beyond argument.
What made me chuckle a bit was:

Ronaldo scores- Job done, can't argue with that.
Mane scores- Should have scored more, something not right with him.

Similarly, I'm sure there was a match thread post, fuming that we don't take our chances 'like United do' and that we were gonna draw the game. At that stage we were dominating, 1-0 up, also had a goal disallowed. At the same point in United game, they were 0-0, struggling to break Newcastle down until they got that lucky spill in injury time.
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Old 13-09-21, 09:08 PM   #2260
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Thanks Redreet, that's a well analysed article. Good to see they're not following an agenda but just the facts. As some of us said earlier, his final pass and shooting was a big let down yet didn't feel like he was playing as bad as last season.

There might be something not right with him, but there's a whole lot less wrong. And that's a big step in the right direction.
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Old 14-09-21, 04:08 AM   #2261
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That article wont be popular with the 'Mane in crisis' crowd, but it does back up that his overall play was really strong yesterday. If he'd banged in the 5 goals he should of it would be beyond argument.
I cant really be arsed reading that all. I watched the game and saw a guy miss 6 extremely good chances. His movement was great, he was in fantastic positions over and over again after we'd won the ball back in midfield, his touch was poor a lot of the time though and he mishit passes as a result when Mo and co were in very good areas, he was also very greedy. Which is not great when you're having a stinker in front of goal and others are lined up waiting to show him how to finish. Basically he played like Spain's favourite whipping boy Alvaro Morata. Lots of desire, great runs, but incredibly wasteful.

But then again Im a prick and don't abide by this modern-day "everyone wins a prize" mentality that everyone has. He had an ok game, he's lucky Leeds were shit and his missed chances didn't cost us. Doesn't deserve much praise though. It was a solid B- in my book.
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Old 14-09-21, 08:39 AM   #2262
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Cheers for that RedReet - appreciate it. Great read. He's in a much better place than last season, I think.
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Old 14-09-21, 10:54 AM   #2263
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I cant really be arsed reading that all. I watched the game and saw a guy miss 6 extremely good chances. His movement was great, he was in fantastic positions over and over again after we'd won the ball back in midfield, his touch was poor a lot of the time though and he mishit passes as a result when Mo and co were in very good areas, he was also very greedy. Which is not great when you're having a stinker in front of goal and others are lined up waiting to show him how to finish. Basically he played like Spain's favourite whipping boy Alvaro Morata. Lots of desire, great runs, but incredibly wasteful.

But then again Im a prick and don't abide by this modern-day "everyone wins a prize" mentality that everyone has. He had an ok game, he's lucky Leeds were shit and his missed chances didn't cost us. Doesn't deserve much praise though. It was a solid B- in my book.


The articles not that long and has loads of pics so should be right up your street

I actually agree with your summary of his game completely, I was worried last season that his entire game had gone. I now don’t think that is the case, as you say his movement is great (his movement on the chance he blazed over from 2 yards was outstanding).

If he can become ruthless (like Mo) in his finishing then he remains a frightening prospect.

What I don’t agree with is that he is done

Now, give me my fucking prize
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Old 14-09-21, 11:03 AM   #2264
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I don't think he's done, there's still a useful player in there, but his poor touch and abysmal finishing seems to be getting worse by the season. At some stage you have to upgrade.

His pace also seems to be on the wane. Remember when he used to just blow past people and leave them standing still? What's happened to that??
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Old 14-09-21, 01:06 PM   #2265
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dartitis ?

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Old 14-09-21, 04:45 PM   #2266
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What made me chuckle a bit was:

Ronaldo scores- Job done, can't argue with that.
Mane scores- Should have scored more, something not right with him.

Similarly, I'm sure there was a match thread post, fuming that we don't take our chances 'like United do' and that we were gonna draw the game. At that stage we were dominating, 1-0 up, also had a goal disallowed. At the same point in United game, they were 0-0, struggling to break Newcastle down until they got that lucky spill in injury time.
Yeah Red, that was me.. and while United are not dominating games like we do.. they have a better goals:chances created than we do by some distance, as do City and the Chavs. My point was less about other teams, more that we flatter to deceive when we're so wasteful (or just not clinical) in front of goal. We've had 100+ chances in the first four games alone...

Mane is playing much better than last season, just needs to finish a few more chances off and he'll be close to where he was two seasons ago...
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Old 14-09-21, 11:49 PM   #2267
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I cant really be arsed reading that all. I watched the game and saw a guy miss 6 extremely good chances. His movement was great, he was in fantastic positions over and over again after we'd won the ball back in midfield, his touch was poor a lot of the time though and he mishit passes as a result when Mo and co were in very good areas, he was also very greedy. Which is not great when you're having a stinker in front of goal and others are lined up waiting to show him how to finish. Basically he played like Spain's favourite whipping boy Alvaro Morata. Lots of desire, great runs, but incredibly wasteful.

But then again Im a prick and don't abide by this modern-day "everyone wins a prize" mentality that everyone has. He had an ok game, he's lucky Leeds were shit and his missed chances didn't cost us. Doesn't deserve much praise though. It was a solid B- in my book.
Oh Harv!

Bet he score 20 goals this season, Calm down bud.
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Old 15-09-21, 02:51 AM   #2268
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Is it good to score 20 when if you could finish properly you'd have scored 40?
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Old 15-09-21, 03:38 AM   #2269
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Is it good to score 20 when if you could finish properly you'd have scored 40?
If those 20 goals change the outcome of a game as opposed to nice topping on a winning scoreline then yes. The goal against Leeds didn't matter apart from maybe a psychological boost to Mane.
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Old 15-09-21, 06:27 AM   #2270
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Is it good to score 20 when if you could finish properly you'd have scored 40?
Of course it is.
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Old 15-09-21, 07:47 AM   #2271
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I cant really be arsed reading that all. I watched the game and saw a guy miss 6 extremely good chances. His movement was great, he was in fantastic positions over and over again after we'd won the ball back in midfield, his touch was poor a lot of the time though and he mishit passes as a result when Mo and co were in very good areas, he was also very greedy. Which is not great when you're having a stinker in front of goal and others are lined up waiting to show him how to finish. Basically he played like Spain's favourite whipping boy Alvaro Morata. Lots of desire, great runs, but incredibly wasteful.

But then again Im a prick and don't abide by this modern-day "everyone wins a prize" mentality that everyone has. He had an ok game, he's lucky Leeds were shit and his missed chances didn't cost us. Doesn't deserve much praise though. It was a solid B- in my book.
Owen needed at least 8 to 10 chances to bury 1 of them. I'm guessing you were always gushing about the little welsh boy. Settle down
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Old 15-09-21, 08:31 AM   #2272
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Yeah Red, that was me.. and while United are not dominating games like we do.. they have a better goals:chances created than we do by some distance, as do City and the Chavs. My point was less about other teams, more that we flatter to deceive when we're so wasteful (or just not clinical) in front of goal. We've had 100+ chances in the first four games alone...

Mane is playing much better than last season, just needs to finish a few more chances off and he'll be close to where he was two seasons ago...
Fair enough mate, although I just think things are magnified when it's your own team (why is it only us that get bad injuries, why is it only us that gets bad decisions etc.). As someone pointed out City had 25 shots and only scored 1, then you have Wolves who were creating loads but just not scoring before last weekend. It's a cliché, but we're better creating loads of chances and not finishing all of them, than creating few and relying on clinical finishing.

Mane was joint top scorer 2 seasons ago and he's playing alongside two lethal finishers in Mo and Jota, so it really is an area I'm not too concerned about.
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Old 15-09-21, 09:26 AM   #2273
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Owen needed at least 8 to 10 chances to bury 1 of them. I'm guessing you were always gushing about the little welsh boy. Settle down
No he didn't, we didn't create 8-10 chance for him to miss under Ged.
You put a young, fit Owen on the end of those through balls and he would've bagged a hat trick. You put a young Fowler on the end of them and he'd have had 5
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Old 15-09-21, 09:30 AM   #2274
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I understand the criticism of Sadio but on the other hand he is looking way more energetic than last season, he's involved and creating chances and getting into positions, I'm convinced he'll get more goals soon. I think we'll get over 15 goals from him in the league this season.
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Old 15-09-21, 09:33 AM   #2275
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No he didn't, we didn't create 8-10 chance for him to miss under Ged.
You put a young, fit Owen on the end of those through balls and he would've bagged a hat trick. You put a young Fowler on the end of them and he'd have had 5
Owen had a woeful conversion rate. Fowler, however was immense, such a naturally gifted finisher
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Old 15-09-21, 10:17 AM   #2276
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I understand the criticism of Sadio but on the other hand he is looking way more energetic than last season, he's involved and creating chances and getting into positions, I'm convinced he'll get more goals soon. I think we'll get over 15 goals from him in the league this season.
Yeah, as others have said he's definitely an improvement on the end of last season. He was a bit streaky at Southampton which points to a confidence player. He also had a bad bout of covid last year to content with.

His all-round game isn't perfect nor is his finishing but i don't have too many worries about him.
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Old 15-09-21, 12:36 PM   #2277
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His energy and approach play is much better, his finishing not so much. He is so much better playing off his natural instinct, it does seem the more time he has to think about things, the worse the outcome.

He is a fabulous player and it will come good for him again, the guy is unplayable on his day. Maybe some shooting practice might come in handy in the meantime Sadio
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Old 15-09-21, 01:45 PM   #2278
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Hopefully he will improve. He is nearly 30, and been in a bit of a rut for a while. I reckon we will bring in a replacement in the summer anyway, as we need to start bedding in a replacement for Salah and Mane.

But he still has quality. I reckon he is frustrated, and its affecting his natural flow a bit. Its not really a problem if we are winning games though.

I get the feeling he is a passionate guy, and any time he misses a shot he heaps more pressure on himself the next time. Perhaps someone could send him a compilation of all of Salah's missed shots

Ultimately, at his best he is every bit as dangerous as Salah, and I think thats it worth preserving. Give it another month and I reckon he will have his mojo back.
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Old 15-09-21, 01:56 PM   #2279
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Originally Posted by Charly View Post
Hopefully he will improve. He is nearly 30, and been in a bit of a rut for a while. I reckon we will bring in a replacement in the summer anyway, as we need to start bedding in a replacement for Salah and Mane.

But he still has quality. I reckon he is frustrated, and its affecting his natural flow a bit. Its not really a problem if we are winning games though.

I get the feeling he is a passionate guy, and any time he misses a shot he heaps more pressure on himself the next time. Perhaps someone could send him a compilation of all of Salah's missed shots

Ultimately, at his best he is every bit as dangerous as Salah, and I think thats it worth preserving. Give it another month and I reckon he will have his mojo back.
Less than a year ago...

https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/sho...=89041&page=50

Obviously a year in football is a long time, but it's not long enough to write him off as some seem to be doing (not you BTW).
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Old 15-09-21, 02:34 PM   #2280
Charly
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He did have a crap season, but nobody came out of 2020/21 smelling of roses (apart from the Mighty Nat). For me, he is getting into great positions, and overthinking it. Just needs to relax...
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