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Old 24-04-21, 07:32 PM   #8641
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To be fair, he didn’t specify them playing as a pair.
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Old 24-04-21, 07:34 PM   #8642
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Someone can make stupid decisions without being stupid.

Klopp has been just as poor this season as the players imo. Hopefully a reset in the summer, bit of luck with injuries and the team can do much better.
Yeah, feels like we need to reset.

Been a tough season all round. Klopp is Mis-reading a few things on the pitch, but ultimately the players are letting him down and forcing him to have to make choices and decisions he doesn’t want to.

Today is a classic example. That game should have been won by the last 20, but he is having to make subs to see it out.
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Old 24-04-21, 07:48 PM   #8643
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To be fair, he didn’t specify them playing as a pair.
Seemed implicit to me since we weren’t losing games frequently when Fabinho started off at CB. 14 games, 9 wins and 5 draws before Henderson joined him.
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Old 24-04-21, 07:53 PM   #8644
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Well it wasn’t.
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Old 24-04-21, 07:54 PM   #8645
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Well it wasn’t.
Well then it was even more wildly inaccurate.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:02 PM   #8646
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Well then it was even more wildly inaccurate.

It wasn’t actually. Fab and Hendo played four times together - Fulham, City, Utd and Southampton, plus Hendo and Fab with another CB has also been on the losing side plenty of times as well... we lose so much when either are back there.

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Old 24-04-21, 09:14 PM   #8647
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Can't really see Jurgen sticking around. A truly dreadful season on the pitch as well as off it with him mum dying. Then this shitshow of a super league which he clearly disagrees with and sets him at odds with the owners. A big rebuild to come with limited cash as we don't know how covid will pan out. If I was him I'd take a year off and come back to a plum job somewhere else.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:21 PM   #8648
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I don't think we need a big rebuild. A few players to freshen up in defence, midfield and attack and we'll be facing up. Klopp won't leave on a poor season, he's still got 3 years left as from the summer. It could backfire for sure if next year we start poorly and aren't showing signs of improvement quickly, but for now, I'm sure he'll be looking forward to reestablishing us to the top of the pile again.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:23 PM   #8649
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I don't think we need a big rebuild. A few players to freshen up in defence, midfield and attack and we'll be facing up. Klopp won't leave on a poor season, he's still got 3 years left as from the summer. It could backfire for sure if next year we start poorly and aren't showing signs of improvement quickly, but for now, I'm sure he'll be looking forward to reestablishing us to the top of the pile again.
That's what I mean by a big rebuild.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:27 PM   #8650
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It wasn’t actually. Fab and Hendo played four times together - Fulham, City, Utd and Southampton, plus Hendo and Fab with another CB has also been on the losing side plenty of times as well... we lose so much when either are back there.
Henderson started in midfield vs Fulham. That’s where he was when we conceded the goal in the first half. He only moved to CB at half time after Matip went off injured.

Either way, 4 games, 2 of which were draws, is not months of frequent losing.

I’ve already pointed out that Fab’s 1st 3-4 months at CB with various partners, saw us unbeaten (in games with him at CB) and top at Christmas.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:32 PM   #8651
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The problem for me is the lack of goals despite what anyone says about Fabinho or Henderson play at CB or whatever obviously those have an impact but we have still been creating chances just wasting them. Since beating Palace 7-0 we have played 19 games,

Atackwise:
Failed to score in 8 games
Score only once in 6 games
Scored more than once in 5 games

Defensively:
Clean sheets in 5 games
Conceded one goal in 11 games
Conceded more than 1 goal in 3 games

Record in those games
Pl19 W6 D5 L8 F19 A20 PTS23

Given our defensive injuries you would take conceding a goal a game and expect the forwards to get us enough points to to win games. If we score 2 goals in each of those 19 games we win 16 of them. Prior to those games we scored 2 or more in 11 of 14 and hadn't failed to score in any of them. Anything vaguely close to that and we are comfortably in the top 4 probably battling for 2nd. It isn't like we haven't had the chances we must be by far the most wasteful team in front of goal.
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Old 24-04-21, 09:41 PM   #8652
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Far from it but continuing with those two as CBs for so long and still losing games so frequently was mental. Everyone could see it wasn’t working... but he kept with it for months
What's happened to him then? Why is one of the world's top coaches not seeing what is so blatantly obvious to a bunch of keyboard experts?
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Old 24-04-21, 10:13 PM   #8653
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What's happened to him then? Why is one of the world's top coaches not seeing what is so blatantly obvious to a bunch of keyboard experts?
Great managers can make obvious mistakes quite easily. As can scientists with credentials as long as your arm. People invest in what brings them success. It can be hard to challenge those things. Maybe over reliance on trusted players who have delivered so much in the past?

The biggest thing for me is the whole mentality thing. It was what Jurgen built the team identity around. And it is the biggest failing now. I'm not knocking him at all, I just don't get why it's gone to shit.

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Old 24-04-21, 11:45 PM   #8654
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It's funny I actually think the slide started pre lockdown. That loss to athletico. When the season restarted we weren't the same. We just done enough but the golden period had ended. We still looked great at times but at others we were going through the motions.
I think we now need an overhaul and this is a big test for Jurgen. Can he build a second great team because I'm now at the point were I think a sticking plaster won't cure us.
I do have faith he can do it.

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Old 25-04-21, 01:14 AM   #8655
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The problem for me is the lack of goals despite what anyone says about Fabinho or Henderson play at CB or whatever obviously those have an impact but we have still been creating chances just wasting them. Since beating Palace 7-0 we have played 19 games,

Atackwise:
Failed to score in 8 games
Score only once in 6 games
Scored more than once in 5 games

Defensively:
Clean sheets in 5 games
Conceded one goal in 11 games
Conceded more than 1 goal in 3 games

Record in those games
Pl19 W6 D5 L8 F19 A20 PTS23

Given our defensive injuries you would take conceding a goal a game and expect the forwards to get us enough points to to win games. If we score 2 goals in each of those 19 games we win 16 of them. Prior to those games we scored 2 or more in 11 of 14 and hadn't failed to score in any of them. Anything vaguely close to that and we are comfortably in the top 4 probably battling for 2nd. It isn't like we haven't had the chances we must be by far the most wasteful team in front of goal.



Excellent post- the stats say it all! Yes we have had our defensive issues this year, due to injuries, but our main issue is that we’re not taking our chances. The front 3 have been amazing over the last 3 seasons, but for me, this seasons bad form is mainly on them (well Mane and Firmino). I hope they can turn around their form next season, but I think it would be risky to not get a new top attacker in the summer. Not an impact sub, or one for the future- someone who can expect to come into the starting 11 next season. Origi needs to be shown the door, surely.
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Old 25-04-21, 07:17 AM   #8656
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Great managers can make obvious mistakes quite easily. As can storied scientists with credentials as long as your arm. People invest in what brings them success. It can be hard to challenge those things. Maybe over reliance on trusted players who have delivered so much in the past?

The biggest thing for me is the whole mentality thing. It was what Jurgen built the team identity around. And it is the biggest failing now. I'm not knocking him at all, I just don't get why it's gone to shit.
For clarity I was being sarcastic.

He has reasons for making the decisions he has that we don't know about. Suggesting (not you) that he repeatedly chose a poor defensive partnership due to being stubborn is not on imo.

A genuine fuck up was the Jota injury and I would think he would agree with that.

Things can change quickly, look at how we transformed after VVD. Look at City now vs autumn. And Chelsea now. Hopefully FSG are able to support him.
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Old 25-04-21, 07:36 AM   #8657
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The problem for me is the lack of goals despite what anyone says about Fabinho or Henderson play at CB or whatever obviously those have an impact but we have still been creating chances just wasting them. Since beating Palace 7-0 we have played 19 games,

Atackwise:
Failed to score in 8 games
Score only once in 6 games
Scored more than once in 5 games

Defensively:
Clean sheets in 5 games
Conceded one goal in 11 games
Conceded more than 1 goal in 3 games

Record in those games
Pl19 W6 D5 L8 F19 A20 PTS23

Given our defensive injuries you would take conceding a goal a game and expect the forwards to get us enough points to to win games. If we score 2 goals in each of those 19 games we win 16 of them. Prior to those games we scored 2 or more in 11 of 14 and hadn't failed to score in any of them. Anything vaguely close to that and we are comfortably in the top 4 probably battling for 2nd. It isn't like we haven't had the chances we must be by far the most wasteful team in front of goal.
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Old 25-04-21, 08:34 AM   #8658
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In terms of Klopp’s decisions I think alot of it comes down to a lack of options. I think that the main one people might criticise him for is not bringing Phillips in sooner and freeing up Fabinho or Henderson to play in midfield. This is a tricky on because I do wonder if part of the reason Phillips had done well is because he wasn't thrown in too soon. The other thing is at the point we first needed one of our 'junior CBs' Williams was probably considered the better option.

The other main criticisms would be not resting / dropping off form Mane or Firmino, but again with Jota out for much of that time the only option was Origi whose form has been poor for the last 18 months. Loaning Minamino was an odd one too but I have my doubts about him being a serious goal threat too.

The other big one is not resting Robertson who looks constantly knackered for weeks. You have to wonder about the quality of Tsimikas he looked decent in a couple of games but he has barely played which is an odd one.

The mentality that people have mentioned I think that Henderson and VVD play a massive part in that an their loss on the pitch and in the dressing room is much more than their ability on the pitch. I think we are really lacking leadership at the moment. I think from that point of view Milner needs to play more but there are other issues with that. I have never really felt that Wijnaldum is captain material, I believe he was chosen by the players last year or the year before when Henderson Milner and VVD didn't play in one game, it's OK as a one off but at the moment he is doing that role regularly and I don't think he is suited to it, that said I don't know who it should be instead I think I would be looking at Fabinho personally.
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Old 25-04-21, 09:17 AM   #8659
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Why did we buy that Davies?
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Old 25-04-21, 09:17 AM   #8660
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Why did we buy that Davies?
fuck knows but it certainly wasn't to play football.
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Old 25-04-21, 09:54 AM   #8661
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Why did we buy that Davies?
As back up in case couldn't get any other deals done?
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Old 29-04-21, 12:53 PM   #8662
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Davies...all that time training with the top players only to be sold in the summer once we got our business done...He certainly would have learnt a few tricks by now, training with the likes of Salah, Mane etc day in, day out. However, cannot see us getting much for him as depends on how long was the contract he signed up for?
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Old 29-04-21, 01:11 PM   #8663
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How many players have we signed and not played?

Im sure we bought a fullback a few years ago. Its hard remembering names when they never played.

Did Sean Dundee get on the pitch? Degen?
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Old 29-04-21, 02:05 PM   #8664
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To be fair to Davies, he hasn't been here that long and he's still only started a handful less games than Naby, and he's been here 3 years.
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Old 07-05-21, 12:13 PM   #8665
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To be fair to Davies, he hasn't been here that long and he's still only started a handful less games than Naby, and he's been here 3 years.
Sad but true
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Old 08-05-21, 08:19 PM   #8666
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Are we actually playing or just providing bollards to pass around
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Old 12-05-21, 10:42 PM   #8667
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"Can we challenge Man City next season? And Chelsea. And Manchester United.

"City and Chelsea have always had [financial] advantages in this and we still won the league and the Champions League, so it is our situation to work like we work and I never look at other clubs and say 'we can't do this' or 'we can't do that'.

"The only thing I am interested in, and I said this earlier when I arrived here, I am not interested in being the coach of the best team in the world.

"I am interested in being the coach of the team who can beat the best team in the world.

"If two or three of them play in our league then we will try to beat them and some others as well so we have enough points to win something.

"It is absolutely not the situation to moan or cry. I am not going to cry about our situations. Our situation is fine.

"A year ago people didn't know exactly how football would go on. Only one year later we speak about what we can do in the transfer window.

"People talk about changing the football structure completely, the German model, I can tell you the budget will go down massively.

"So changing the structure of the ownership model and [then] signing Haaland for £150m or whatever, that doesn’t work together.

"We have to use our situation better than we did this year.

"We had bad luck, definitely, but the thing I am concerned about is this was not the season when we could have become champions. There was just no chance.

"But we could have had five, six or seven points more in this moment with exactly the same situation we have been in this whole time? Yes.

"I think we should have and we don't. And that is something I don’t like too much.

"That situation would improve our position a little bit for the last few games, but we would have to win all our games because the other teams could too.

"But that is it, really. Nothing to moan about, nothing to cry about, just the situation is better than I would have thought a year ago, but the financial situation is where everyone suffers.

"And then we ask about signing players for this and that. We will see how the market develops but it for sure would not be an early market, that is for sure."
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Old 13-05-21, 12:32 AM   #8668
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"And then we ask about signing players for this and that. We will see how the market develops but it for sure would not be an early market, that is for sure."
What does he mean by that? As in not much transfer activity early on due to the Euros?
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Old 13-05-21, 06:47 AM   #8669
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Sell to buy?
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Old 13-05-21, 06:50 AM   #8670
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What does he mean by that? As in not much transfer activity early on due to the Euros?
I assume that and there not being alot of money flow sting around due to covid impacting on clubs finances. I suspect he also means that there will probably need to be a couple of big deals done to kick start the market.

I think he's talking about the market in general rather than us specifically.
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Old 13-05-21, 07:57 AM   #8671
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I assume that and there not being alot of money flow sting around due to covid impacting on clubs finances. I suspect he also means that there will probably need to be a couple of big deals done to kick start the market.

I think he's talking about the market in general rather than us specifically.
City will be looking to replace Kun but other than that the top 4 don’t need a hell of a lot of spending imo ( excluding Leicester). They probably will though cause FFP & the financial problems of Covid don’t seem to affect them.
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Old 13-05-21, 08:25 AM   #8672
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What does he mean by that? As in not much transfer activity early on due to the Euros?
Two factors. There isn't a lot of trading during the Euros as managers have historically used it as a scouting tool, we won't - it's a mug's game.

But what I think he really means is clubs have had finances severely impacted by covid and that will have a knock on effect on transfer fees so a lot of clubs will be holding until the market is defined by those earlier transfers. The likes of Sancho has already had his fee slashed, etc.

Edit. Ffs. What ER said.
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Old 13-05-21, 09:55 AM   #8673
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Two factors. There isn't a lot of trading during the Euros as managers have historically used it as a scouting tool, we won't - it's a mug's game.

But what I think he really means is clubs have had finances severely impacted by covid and that will have a knock on effect on transfer fees so a lot of clubs will be holding until the market is defined by those earlier transfers. The likes of Sancho has already had his fee slashed, etc.

Edit. Ffs. What ER said.
I shouldn’t but
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Old 16-05-21, 01:56 PM   #8674
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During his media previews for Sunday’s trip to West Bromwich Albion, the manager was asked how he will handle the possibility of the return of Gomez, Matip and Van Dijk in the next campaign leading to reduced game time for the likes of Phillips and Williams.

“First and foremost, the boys did incredibly well,” replied Klopp.

“Ozan [Kabak] came in and played a super part for us; unfortunately now [is] injured. Nat now for weeks already. Rhys in the start mainly in the Champions League because Nat was not on the list for the Champions League, then we had to figure that out – how we can do that, how we can make sure at least one of the two can play.

“Now they played together, did really well [on Thursday] night, I loved what they did. That’s good. So, this year created obviously two proper careers, which is nice.

“Both will have a proper career. When you are at an academy, at whichever club, that’s not written in stone. But now they could show how good they are, and so everything will be fine.

“Our new season will start in the summer, when we start with the pre-season. I said it before – it’s not sure that the three guys you mentioned before [Gomez, Matip and Van Dijk] will start the pre-season with us. So the boys will be here; we need the numbers of centre-halves, we need to work on all the different things.

“And then step by step we hopefully have the boys back, the other guys back. But football, team selection is based on performance and training and in pre-season in friendlies, or in proper competition games. And the door is always open. I don’t get blind overnight, that I don’t see a good performance anymore. That means, really, the door is open.

“But in general it’s just nice how the boys contribute. The concentration level they showed [on Thursday] night again is immense, absolutely insane what they did there. Against this front four of United it’s not easy.

“But it was really well supported, I have to say, by our two full-backs. They were really leading the line, a lot of talks. Rhys is a natural talker on the pitch, which helps as well. So I liked how we organised the last line, that was really good.
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Old 16-05-21, 02:35 PM   #8675
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I'm searching for an 'aged like milk' meme, just in case.
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