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Old 26-11-18, 09:03 AM   #6361
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City look so strong, it's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. I think though Klopp needs to win a trophy. We've progressed massively and come so close to 2 European trophies and a domestic cup but we need to start winning some silverware.
I think we can only ask for a challenge, we are up against one of the best sides ever assembled in England, with the most resources and the highest rated manager today. They should be favourites for every competition they enter.
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Old 26-11-18, 09:13 AM   #6362
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City look so strong, it's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. I think though Klopp needs to win a trophy. We've progressed massively and come so close to 2 European trophies and a domestic cup but we need to start winning some silverware.
Saying that suggests something needs to happen if he doesn’t deliver.

He has made us competitive, to the point we have only dropped 6 points after thirteen games.

I don’t see anyone doing any better than him.
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Old 26-11-18, 09:40 AM   #6363
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Yup. Our expectations are a bit too high. Let's enjoy the ride. We want to win a trophy is a more appropriate projection. We don't need to.
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Old 26-11-18, 09:44 AM   #6364
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I find the attitude that we are just supposed to be happy with 2nd because City are too good a bit difficult to understand. Expectations are too high? Winning the league is mine, anything else this year and ill feel a bit deflated.

Buzzo is also right in saying I dont see anyone else doing better in the current situation. But, I dont think its bad to expect the title.

We need to shake the attitude of being 2nd,3rd,4th being a good thing. Anything less than 1st should be considered bad. Its a mentality thing more than anything. But why do we have to be measured this season as fans?
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Old 26-11-18, 09:54 AM   #6365
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I think we'll do it.

And if we don't, I won't be putting the knife in.
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Old 26-11-18, 09:59 AM   #6366
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I find the attitude that we are just supposed to be happy with 2nd because City are too good a bit difficult to understand. Expectations are too high? Winning the league is mine, anything else this year and ill feel a bit deflated.

Buzzo is also right in saying I dont see anyone else doing better in the current situation. But, I dont think its bad to expect the title.

We need to shake the attitude of being 2nd,3rd,4th being a good thing. Anything less than 1st should be considered bad. Its a mentality thing more than anything. But why do we have to be measured this season as fans?
Here we go again........

There's nothing wrong with wanting the title, but expecting it given how phenomenally good this City team are is just not fair IMO.

They're on target for 100 points for the second successive season. It's unparalleled.

If we finish second on 99pts and you consider that bad, then I'll consider you a bellend.
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Old 26-11-18, 10:20 AM   #6367
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I'm loathe to admit how good Guardiola is.

I really thought he'd get found out in the Premier League.

But the important thing is that WE'RE IN A GOOD POSITION TO WIN TROPHIES.
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Old 26-11-18, 10:25 AM   #6368
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Klopp's building a side to challenge for the title season after season, which I still don't think fans have realised yet. If we finish 3rd or 2nd, and are very close, then great. Let's go again next season, and the season after that.

I've mentioned this point before, but I'm sure as a fanbase, we'll come to realise it. I want us to be challenging every season. Again, under Houllier, Benitez and Rodgers, we came 2nd for one season, and fell off a cliff after those respective seasons, and we felt sorry for ourselves (well, Rafa had G&H, so that's excusable), because of Macheda, or because of Gerrard's slip, and the 3-3 against Palace. We don't win the title this season, and I'm sure we'll feel sorry for ourselves because we're against an amazing Man City side.

Klopp's trying to build something sustainable on the pitch, so that we can compete on multiple fronts every season. He has experience with Mainz of losing out on promotion through goal difference and one point, and finally getting it right at the third attempt. He has experience of overcoming the odds, and rising from the ashes. Thank God he's in a position of influence, so that if it happens to us, we can rise up again.

Considering the peaks and troughs since the 2009/10 season (Rafa's last season), well, I'm delighted where we are, and to even be competing with Guardiola's petrodollar funded team of winners, even if we don't win the league. I just want us to be challenging every season, and if we don't, to then have a clear idea of how to fix it.
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Old 26-11-18, 11:03 AM   #6369
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I'm loathe to admit how good Guardiola is.

I really thought he'd get found out in the Premier League.

But the important thing is that WE'RE IN A GOOD POSITION TO WIN TROPHIES.
If he's ever going to be found out then it won't be until he's competing on a level playing field
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Old 26-11-18, 11:36 AM   #6370
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I think we can only ask for a challenge, we are up against one of the best sides ever assembled in England, with the most resources and the highest rated manager today. They should be favourites for every competition they enter.

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Saying that suggests something needs to happen if he doesn’t deliver.

He has made us competitive, to the point we have only dropped 6 points after thirteen games.

I don’t see anyone doing any better than him.
I am not saying we have to win the league, it's not a level playing field and we are constantly playing catch up. What I am saying is that for the club, supporters and for Klopp himself who has lost the last 6 finals.... winning something along with a solid title challenge would be a massive boost to the club. I don't expect us to win the league but I do expect us to challenge, I was annoyed we got knocked out of the league cup so early.

At the end of the day we brought Klopp in to try to win things, we are not exactly a small club. We potentially could have won the Carling Cup, Europa League & Champs league in 2 seasons. We have lost 3 finals back to back, this club needs a trophy... otherwise what's the point?
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Old 26-11-18, 11:43 AM   #6371
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City look so strong, it's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. I think though Klopp needs to win a trophy. We've progressed massively and come so close to 2 European trophies and a domestic cup but we need to start winning some silverware.

Personally I wouldnt set silverware as something Klopp needs to do this season, but also you have to remember that City are also competing for other trophies also

In regards to the league I think his job is to get closer to City than last year. We finished what 25 points behind them?? In my opinion he needs to get closer than that, cut the deficit down and see where we are at the end of this season
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Old 26-11-18, 11:46 AM   #6372
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I find the attitude that we are just supposed to be happy with 2nd because City are too good a bit difficult to understand. Expectations are too high? Winning the league is mine, anything else this year and ill feel a bit deflated.

Buzzo is also right in saying I dont see anyone else doing better in the current situation. But, I dont think its bad to expect the title.

We need to shake the attitude of being 2nd,3rd,4th being a good thing. Anything less than 1st should be considered bad. Its a mentality thing more than anything. But why do we have to be measured this season as fans?
I think expecting us to win the title is a bit much, its very dismissive of the competition who are exceptional
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Old 26-11-18, 12:10 PM   #6373
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Personally I wouldnt set silverware as something Klopp needs to do this season, but also you have to remember that City are also competing for other trophies also

In regards to the league I think his job is to get closer to City than last year. We finished what 25 points behind them?? In my opinion he needs to get closer than that, cut the deficit down and see where we are at the end of this season
we will definitely get closer this season & as I said I don't expect us to win the league City are a fabulous outfit & are experienced winners. I just feel that some silverware (even likes of FA or League Cup) would have been great for the club. I know many on here weren't arsed getting knocked out of the league cup but I was gutted as it was a great opportunity for silverware & of course to getting all of the squad match sharp, just unfortunate that we got Chelsea.

We don't want to become Arsenal under Wenger but I do get that qualifying for the champs league every season is a must, financially & of course to attract the best players. We've been playing catch up & it has been too long without a trophy. We have come so close recently... would be nice to see the lads & Klopp lifting a cup.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:13 PM   #6374
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Sod the opposition. Just be better. If city get 99 points then we need 100. Why the hesitation to want to win?

I won’t want changes made, but I’ll be disappointed if we fail to win.

If you run a race, you don’t go into it thinking the faster bloke will win. You go in expecting to win and wanting to do better next time if you fail.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:14 PM   #6375
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Do you think all men’s 100m runners thought “yeah, fair fucks. Bolt is better, I’m happy with second” or do you think it pushed them to go harder next time?
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Old 26-11-18, 12:19 PM   #6376
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Here we go again........

There's nothing wrong with wanting the title, but expecting it given how phenomenally good this City team are is just not fair IMO.

They're on target for 100 points for the second successive season. It's unparalleled.

If we finish second on 99pts and you consider that bad, then I'll consider you a bellend.


I understand don't be bitter, be better... but it's not exactly a level playing field.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:20 PM   #6377
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I think we'll do it.

And if we don't, I won't be putting the knife in.


That’s more like it. But accepting 2nd because someone else might be better is defeatist.

It’s come to something when I’m getting laughed at for expecting this current Liverpool side to be good enough to win the league.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:26 PM   #6378
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That’s more like it. But accepting 2nd because someone else might be better is defeatist.

It’s come to something when I’m getting laughed at for expecting this current Liverpool side to be good enough to win the league.
It has come to something when a team as good as ours is still realistically second best.

Of all the eras we had to put together a great team, we've gone and done in it in this one.

That said, we're in a fantastic position so far. Points will be dropped by everyone. Everyone will lose some games.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:33 PM   #6379
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Man City aren't all-conquering. They can, and will be beaten to the title. We just have to make sure we're there when it happens. That's all there is to it.

Alex, you hardly talk about next season or the season after. You do come across as though it's this season or bust. Sod feeling deflated if we don't. We have form for this, and going nuclear (not in a good way). I like how the club responded after the CL Final by announcing Fabinho. It didn't give us chance to wallow in pity, but immediately focus on bouncing back.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:42 PM   #6380
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Man City aren't all-conquering. They can, and will be beaten to the title. We just have to make sure we're there when it happens. That's all there is to it.

Alex, you hardly talk about next season or the season after. You do come across as though it's this season or bust. Sod feeling deflated if we don't. We have form for this, and going nuclear (not in a good way). I like how the club responded after the CL Final by announcing Fabinho. It didn't give us chance to wallow in pity, but immediately focus on bouncing back.
Ive been here long enough for people to know its not my usual mindset. But I think we have all been through enough now as supporters to be frustrated with the "Next season we will be better" syndrome. Its been happening for years and years. Next season City will be better again, so will Chelsea. Its a constantly refreshing cycle.

I just think that this season we are good enough to win the league, City or no City. I dont really care about them. Im not going to be annoyed and deflated. But it will be frustrating that we have lost another opportunity.

However I dont think what comes through is how much Im enjoying us at the moment. Its fun to support a team in a title race (something thats happened maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 25-30 years now)
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Old 26-11-18, 12:47 PM   #6381
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Do you think all men’s 100m runners thought “yeah, fair fucks. Bolt is better, I’m happy with second” or do you think it pushed them to go harder next time?
I dont think they were happy with 2nd but I genuinely think for a period of time many of them thought "we have little chance of beating this guy"


Theres a difference between being happy with 2nd and excepting the reality of the situation

Personally I think you will be disappointed because I would be enormously surprised if we pipped City to the title
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Old 26-11-18, 12:50 PM   #6382
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Amazing to think how far we have come in such a short period of time. Under Rafa personally, there was always an element of pretenders to the crown, an element of blagging our way to the big time, but here we are on merit, one of the elite clubs in Europe not based on history but on present performance. We have gone from being happy signing Chelsea cast offs to Players choosing us over Barca and Real, we've over taken Arsenal, United, and you can make a case for Spurs and Chelsea to boot and throughout all this, its been great fun, lead by a man who just makes you smile. Supporting Liverpool right now is pure joy.
Hypothetical (and controversial ) but if (today's) Klopp had been in charge of Rafa's 2006-08 teams, we would have won the league.
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Old 26-11-18, 12:57 PM   #6383
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We'll have a fair idea of our title prospects come the end of January 3rd (10 games in 5 weeks). Over the next 5 weeks, we have PL games against Everton, Utd, Arsenal and City (plus CL games against PSG and Napoli). Possible 24 PL points.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:24 PM   #6384
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I'm loathe to admit how good Guardiola is.

I really thought he'd get found out in the Premier League.

But the important thing is that WE'RE IN A GOOD POSITION TO WIN TROPHIES.
Yeah... taken the richest, best teams with the best players in Spain, Germany and England... and won titles with them.

What a genius...

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Old 26-11-18, 01:25 PM   #6385
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Ive been here long enough for people to know its not my usual mindset. But I think we have all been through enough now as supporters to be frustrated with the "Next season we will be better" syndrome. Its been happening for years and years. Next season City will be better again, so will Chelsea. Its a constantly refreshing cycle.

I just think that this season we are good enough to win the league, City or no City. I dont really care about them. Im not going to be annoyed and deflated. But it will be frustrating that we have lost another opportunity.

However I dont think what comes through is how much Im enjoying us at the moment. Its fun to support a team in a title race (something thats happened maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 25-30 years now)
We are good enough to win most seasons. Sport is littered with great athletes, players and teams that would have excelled in other times but were stopped by truly exceptional talents and this City team is just that .

All we can ask is to do our best, we could end up with not far from 100 points and still not win the league.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:34 PM   #6386
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Do you think all men’s 100m runners thought “yeah, fair fucks. Bolt is better, I’m happy with second” or do you think it pushed them to go harder next time?
I remember reading once, when Michael Johnson was at his peak in the 400m, that the others knew they were running to be "best of the rest".

There's no shame in coming second, especially considering the gulf in resources between the two clubs. And it is a gulf, considering one club quite obviously abides by the FFP regs and the other....well, lets just say I fail to see how they do, and leave it at that.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:34 PM   #6387
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We are good enough to win most seasons. Sport is littered with great athletes, players and teams that would have excelled in other times but were stopped by truly exceptional talents and this City team is just that .

All we can ask is to do our best, we could end up with not far from 100 points and still not win the league.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:37 PM   #6388
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I remember reading once, when Michael Johnson was at his peak in the 400m, that the others knew they were running to be "best of the rest".

There's no shame in coming second, especially considering the gulf in resources between the two clubs. And it is a gulf, considering one club quite obviously abides by the FFP regs and the other....well, lets just say I fail to see how they do, and leave it at that.
But City are beatable though. We're 2 points behind them. But most are talking like they are streets ahead.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:50 PM   #6389
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Over the course of the season, I honestly feel we will drop further back.

In terms of first 11, I believe we are as good, if not better as a team. However, we do not have the backup squad to adequately replace certain key positions, so when we rest players we will lose fluidity and potency.

The key area we lack in replacements is up front...if Salah, Mane or Firmino need rotating out, the options on the bench are a big step down. Over the course of a 50/60 game season, those fringe players will be needed and it's a times like that I believe we will be vulnerable.

City can rest players and in a lot of cases, replace like for like. It's a big bonus for them.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:50 PM   #6390
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Amazing to think how far we have come in such a short period of time. Under Rafa personally, there was always an element of pretenders to the crown, an element of blagging our way to the big time, but here we are on merit, one of the elite clubs in Europe not based on history but on present performance. We have gone from being happy signing Chelsea cast offs to Players choosing us over Barca and Real, we've over taken Arsenal, United, and you can make a case for Spurs and Chelsea to boot and throughout all this, its been great fun, lead by a man who just makes you smile. Supporting Liverpool right now is pure joy.
After the dark days of Woy & the chuckle brothers nearly dragging the club into oblivion at the very least I will always be grateful to Klopp for this alone.
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Klopp's building a side to challenge for the title season after season, which I still don't think fans have realised yet. If we finish 3rd or 2nd, and are very close, then great. Let's go again next season, and the season after that.

I've mentioned this point before, but I'm sure as a fanbase, we'll come to realise it. I want us to be challenging every season. Again, under Houllier, Benitez and Rodgers, we came 2nd for one season, and fell off a cliff after those respective seasons, and we felt sorry for ourselves (well, Rafa had G&H, so that's excusable), because of Macheda, or because of Gerrard's slip, and the 3-3 against Palace. We don't win the title this season, and I'm sure we'll feel sorry for ourselves because we're against an amazing Man City side.

Klopp's trying to build something sustainable on the pitch, so that we can compete on multiple fronts every season. He has experience with Mainz of losing out on promotion through goal difference and one point, and finally getting it right at the third attempt. He has experience of overcoming the odds, and rising from the ashes. Thank God he's in a position of influence, so that if it happens to us, we can rise up again.

Considering the peaks and troughs since the 2009/10 season (Rafa's last season), well, I'm delighted where we are, and to even be competing with Guardiola's petrodollar funded team of winners, even if we don't win the league. I just want us to be challenging every season, and if we don't, to then have a clear idea of how to fix it.
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Old 26-11-18, 01:52 PM   #6391
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But City are beatable though. We're 2 points behind them. But most are talking like they are streets ahead.


The good thing is that they seem to have hit their peak right now whereas we have been far from our best but are only 2 points behind.

That has got to be a concern for City and the longer we keep pace (points wise), the larger the red shadow will grow in their minds
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Old 26-11-18, 02:11 PM   #6392
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I think we'll do it.

And if we don't, I won't be putting the knife in.
We have a great chance.

We need teams to believe they can beat city
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Old 26-11-18, 02:27 PM   #6393
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We have a great chance.

We need teams to believe they can beat city
It's up to the players and the management team. And I think they do have that belief. They know they're up there.
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Old 26-11-18, 03:18 PM   #6394
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Ive been here long enough for people to know its not my usual mindset. But I think we have all been through enough now as supporters to be frustrated with the "Next season we will be better" syndrome. Its been happening for years and years. Next season City will be better again, so will Chelsea. Its a constantly refreshing cycle.

I just think that this season we are good enough to win the league, City or no City. I dont really care about them. Im not going to be annoyed and deflated. But it will be frustrating that we have lost another opportunity.

However I dont think what comes through is how much Im enjoying us at the moment. Its fun to support a team in a title race (something thats happened maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 25-30 years now)




Exactly. Let's focus on going for the title this season, and if we do not win it, then we can think about going for it next season.

We may as well aim high for as long as we can, team and supporters alike, and when the dust settles we can see where we are.

We can think/worry about next season when that season starts.
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Old 26-11-18, 03:24 PM   #6395
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The key point for me is that if we don’t win then Klopp should in no way be labelled a failure. This is the sort of chat we can look to expect from other camps (should it happen) most who will realise jealously that we are on to a good thing.

As has been mentioned above he is building a legacy. He has brought us on massively from where we were.
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Old 26-11-18, 03:28 PM   #6396
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Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
The key point for me is that if we don’t win then Klopp should in no way be labelled a failure. This is the sort of chat we can look to expect from other camps (should it happen) most who will realise jealously that we are on to a good thing.

As has been mentioned above he is building a legacy. He has brought us on massively from where we were.
Totally agree. I want Klopp here for a long time still. Were better than last season, and the season before. So as long as we are making good progress. He can stay as long as he wants.
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Old 26-11-18, 03:47 PM   #6397
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We have a great chance.

We need teams to believe they can beat city
This is the biggest challenge for me, other teams just try to not get thumped them by defending deep all game. We need teams to have a cut off them and go for broke.
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Old 26-11-18, 04:16 PM   #6398
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Apparently, West Ham had plenty of chances to score but it just didn’t fall their way. Maybe it’s partly to do with lack of belief. Man City’s defence can be got at, I’m sure of it.
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Old 26-11-18, 04:23 PM   #6399
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John Toshack has said Liverpool's owners "will have a very difficult decision to make" if Klopp fails to win a trophy this season.



Fuck off you schmuck. What an absurd notion that is.
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Old 26-11-18, 04:31 PM   #6400
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John Toshack has said Liverpool's owners "will have a very difficult decision to make" if Klopp fails to win a trophy this season.



Fuck off you schmuck. What an absurd notion that is.
John Toshack was speaking at the book launch of ‘Toshack’s Way: My Journey Through Football’, which is published by deCoubertin Books and costs £20

Get yourself some headlines Tosh.
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