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est1892
Old 24-06-08, 04:33 PM   #1
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Donadoni Sacked

What do you make of that? Fah-G?

Will the Italian national side always play boring negative defensive football or will they ever change to an attacking style?
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Old 24-06-08, 04:37 PM   #2
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Well done.
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Old 24-06-08, 04:38 PM   #3
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What? I didnt mean to be offensive Just asking
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Old 24-06-08, 04:40 PM   #4
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Im glad Donadoni has gone to be honest, but i'll just console myself with:

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Old 24-06-08, 04:40 PM   #5
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One of our FOUR incidentally.
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Old 24-06-08, 04:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fah-q View Post
Im glad Donadoni has gone to be honest, but i'll just console myself with:

I'll see it and raise you a...



Yeah, that's right!
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Old 24-06-08, 04:54 PM   #7
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No surprise really.

Heard Lippi may take over again.
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Old 24-06-08, 05:11 PM   #8
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I'll see it and raise you a...



Yeah, that's right!
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Old 24-06-08, 05:37 PM   #9
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At least it will stop Pleat from calling him Donadini for a while
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Old 24-06-08, 05:45 PM   #10
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One of our FOUR incidentally.

First one was won by Duce and referees so it doesn`t count

What is it with you Italians that you need to be in serious crisis to win things?

1982: betting scandal and Paolo Rossi who was suspended and shouldn`t really play in World Cup, same story in 2006. Even Milan last year when they beat us in Champions League.

Anyway from now on not only Italians will keep going with defensive style but England and Ireland will join. Can`t wait
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Old 24-06-08, 05:53 PM   #11
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First one was won by Duce and referees so it doesn`t count

What is it with you Italians that you need to be in serious crisis to win things?

1982: betting scandal and Paolo Rossi who was suspended and shouldn`t really play in World Cup, same story in 2006. Even Milan last year when they beat us in Champions League.

Anyway from now on not only Italians will keep going with defensive style but England and Ireland will join. Can`t wait

I really really hate Italian football, the only players from todays generation I respect highly are Del Piero, Maldini, Cannavaro and Buffon. They won the last world cup by boring everyone to death.
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Old 24-06-08, 06:59 PM   #12
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Good riddance. The team are also a bunch of OAP's who play negative boring football
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Old 24-06-08, 09:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brzeczyszczykiewicz View Post
First one was won by Duce and referees so it doesn`t count

What is it with you Italians that you need to be in serious crisis to win things?

1982: betting scandal and Paolo Rossi who was suspended and shouldn`t really play in World Cup, same story in 2006. Even Milan last year when they beat us in Champions League.

Anyway from now on not only Italians will keep going with defensive style but England and Ireland will join. Can`t wait
I can't either, we need our defence to be sorted

We've been pretty rubbish of late. What we need is a good run and to qualify for a tournament. TBH, if we do that by playing defensively, I won't care.
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Old 24-06-08, 10:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brzeczyszczykiewicz View Post
First one was won by Duce and referees so it doesn`t count

What is it with you Italians that you need to be in serious crisis to win things?

1982: betting scandal and Paolo Rossi who was suspended and shouldn`t really play in World Cup, same story in 2006. Even Milan last year when they beat us in Champions League.

Anyway from now on not only Italians will keep going with defensive style but England and Ireland will join. Can`t wait
at least we win things, etc
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Old 24-06-08, 10:38 PM   #15
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I really really hate Italian football, the only players from todays generation I respect highly are Del Piero, Maldini, Cannavaro and Buffon. They won the last world cup by boring everyone to death.
Good for you, I hope we go back to playing negative football just to piss you off.

And just to humour you on your point about "boring" our way to our FOURTH world cup. Thought you might like to see the tournament stats to back up your argument.

Thats: games/won/drawn/lost/scored/conced/points (if it was 3pts a win, etc)

1.Italy C 7 5 2 0 12- 2 17
2.France F 7 4 3 0 9- 3 15
3.Germany SF 7 5 1 1 14- 6 16
4.Portugal SF 7 4 1 2 7- 5 13
5.Brazil QF 5 4 0 1 10- 2 12
6.Argentina QF 5 3 2 0 11- 3 11
7.England QF 5 3 2 0 6- 2 11
8.Ukraine QF 5 2 1 2 5- 7 7
9.Spain 2R 4 3 0 1 9- 4 9
10.Switzerland 2R 4 2 2 0 4- 0 8
11.Netherlands 2R 4 2 1 1 3- 2 7
12.Ecuador 2R 4 2 0 2 5- 4 6
13.Ghana 2R 4 2 0 2 4- 6 6
14.Sweden 2R 4 1 2 1 3- 4 5
15.Mexico 2R 4 1 1 2 5- 5 4
16.Australia 2R 4 1 1 2 5- 6 4
17.South Korea 1R 3 1 1 1 3- 4 4
18.Paraguay 1R 3 1 0 2 2- 2 3
19.Côte d'Ivoire 1R 3 1 0 2 5- 6 3
20.Czech Republic 1R 3 1 0 2 3- 4 3
21.Poland 1R 3 1 0 2 2- 4 3
22.Croatia 1R 3 0 2 1 2- 3 2
23.Angola 1R 3 0 2 1 1- 2 2
24.Tunisia 1R 3 0 1 2 3- 6 1
25.Iran 1R 3 0 1 2 2- 6 1
United States 1R 3 0 1 2 2- 6 1
27.Trinidad & Tob. 1R 3 0 1 2 0- 4 1
28.Japan 1R 3 0 1 2 2- 7 1
Saudi Arabia 1R 3 0 1 2 2- 7 1
30.Togo 1R 3 0 0 3 1- 6 0
31.Costa Rica 1R 3 0 0 3 3- 9 0
32.Serbia & Mont. 1R 3 0 0 3 2-10 0

Yes you are right its clearly obvious we "bored" our way to it, isn't it?

Still it's not like you advocate cheating your way to a world cup instead is it?
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Old 24-06-08, 10:42 PM   #16
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at least we win things, etc
you mean organise things ?

In 1934 there could only be one winner so I wouldn`t mention that. Kicking the shit out of Zamorra and other stuff. Milan 1965 springs to mind


Don`t get me wrong I wouldn`t mind if Poland would win something in our history, no matter how. It`s just that you shouldn`t be suprised that many people aren`t big fans of the style that it was done with.
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Old 24-06-08, 10:53 PM   #17
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I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

And if you believe that we are the only nation who has corruption at its football heart then you would be naive in the extreme. At least we have the balls to do something about it. Could you ever see Manchester United being relegated in this country?
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Old 24-06-08, 11:00 PM   #18
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I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

And if you believe that we are the only nation who has corruption at its football heart then you would be naive in the extreme. At least we have the balls to do something about it. Could you ever see Manchester United being relegated in this country?

Speaking of corruption we are quite good at this just not that effective.

I know where you coming from. Not many people remember 1982 and youse beating Brasil 3:2 ( wasn`t it? ) That was classic. Same as no one will even contemplate talking about Brasil as a defensive team and that was how they won title in 1994.

Oh well , I guess I can`t stick to my guns
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Old 24-06-08, 11:10 PM   #19
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Also not sure if you know this but a useful historical note for those interested, there is a tragic reason why Italian football adopted the defensive "catenacchio" style of play. The Turin air disaster of 1949 killed almost the entire Torino side of which 10 players made up the national side. Football in Italy was devastated and combined with dealing with the after effects of war meant a defensive style was improvised to avoid heavy defeats whilst the team was rebuilt.

Unfortunately for spectators this style proved very effective and therefore wasn't cast away as the game got stronger. However in recent years we have thrown off this caution to play expansive football of a sort which is why I was frustrated that Lippi stood down.
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Old 25-06-08, 08:29 AM   #20
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I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

I’m not trying to be antagonistic or owt – although I think you know I’m not a fan of Italian football.

I don’t think your comparison between Italy’s depressing tactics and our 0-0 in Juve stands up at all. We were a poor-ish, under-developed side against much superior opposition. Italy are WORLD CHAMPIONS FFS! Yet they played like a Conference team would away at Chelsea.

I realise they were slightly depleted but to me it doesn’t wash – Italy are a major, major footballing nation and if you’re trying to tell me you don’t have enough half-decent players to actually come out and have a game of football against Spain, rather than just spoil spoil spoil……..then well, I don’t believe it. I would’ve empathised with a slightly defensive set-up designed to keep it goalless until half-time and then have a go – like Turkey have been doing – but to just shut up shop completely, make no attempt to win the game and cling on for a penalty shoot-out absolutely stunk IMO.
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Old 25-06-08, 08:37 AM   #21
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I don't think it matters what anyone expects of a team depending on their perceived status. Anyone can make an argument for why their point of view is internally consistent. Defensive tactics are defensive tactics, no matter who plays them.
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Old 25-06-08, 08:48 AM   #22
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Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.
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Old 25-06-08, 09:26 AM   #23
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Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.

I agree, although we are world champions, we are going through a period of transistion at the moment. I also the squad that Donadoni picked wasn't sufficiently balanced enough that it could be a threat without the creative influence of Pirlo (and the protection to the back four Gattuso).
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Old 25-06-08, 09:34 AM   #24
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I’m not trying to be antagonistic or owt – although I think you know I’m not a fan of Italian football.

I don’t think your comparison between Italy’s depressing tactics and our 0-0 in Juve stands up at all. We were a poor-ish, under-developed side against much superior opposition. Italy are WORLD CHAMPIONS FFS! Yet they played like a Conference team would away at Chelsea.

I realise they were slightly depleted but to me it doesn’t wash – Italy are a major, major footballing nation and if you’re trying to tell me you don’t have enough half-decent players to actually come out and have a game of football against Spain, rather than just spoil spoil spoil……..then well, I don’t believe it. I would’ve empathised with a slightly defensive set-up designed to keep it goalless until half-time and then have a go – like Turkey have been doing – but to just shut up shop completely, make no attempt to win the game and cling on for a penalty shoot-out absolutely stunk IMO.
I think you are being clouded by your dislike of Italian football, yes it wasn't pretty but since when did it become a responsiblity to entertain other people of other nations? Never, football is about winning and sometimes you have to try to win ugly if you are mismatched.
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Old 25-06-08, 09:38 AM   #25
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I think you are being clouded by your dislike of Italian football, yes it wasn't pretty but since when did it become a responsiblity to entertain other people of other nations? Never, football is about winning and sometimes you have to try to win ugly if you are mismatched.
Maybe I am.

Although maybe I'm being clouded even more by the fact I could win four hundred quid if Spain win it and I was raging on the night.

I agree with your point to an extent but I thought Italy took it to extreme lengths, and would've had more of a chance had they shown at least some adventure.
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Old 25-06-08, 09:48 AM   #26
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Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.


Barry Glendenning didn't like the Italians either!
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Old 25-06-08, 10:03 AM   #27
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Maybe I am.

Although maybe I'm being clouded even more by the fact I could win four hundred quid if Spain win it and I was raging on the night.

I agree with your point to an extent but I thought Italy took it to extreme lengths, and would've had more of a chance had they shown at least some adventure.

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Old 25-06-08, 10:08 AM   #28
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If Italy had to use Cassano as a starter then it's clear they were short on quality. Also I've never seen Camoranesi play as well as he did when he came on against Spain which might just show how poor the others were on the night.

I know Cannavaro withdrew just before the tournament started but what's with Totti and Nesta?
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Old 25-06-08, 10:09 AM   #29
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I think they have both retired from international football.
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Old 25-06-08, 10:11 AM   #30
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Really? Wow, I had no idea.

Anyway, last I read "Donadini" hadn't actually been sacked yet. I imagine it's only a question of time though.
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Old 25-06-08, 10:20 AM   #31
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Yeah Totti and Nesta have definitely retired.

Also agree about Camoranesi. When he was introduced I committed the cardinal sin of saying "he's fucking shit". When I do this the player normally goes on to score, and Camoranesi duly forced Casillas into that excellent save almost immediately. Never seen him play so well - he looked very purposeful.
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Old 25-06-08, 10:25 AM   #32
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Yeah Totti and Nesta have definitely retired.

Also agree about Camoranesi. When he was introduced I committed the cardinal sin of saying "he's fucking shit". When I do this the player normally goes on to score, and Camoranesi duly forced Casillas into that excellent save almost immediately. Never seen him play so well - he looked very purposeful.
I did much the same although without the swearing because my son was watching it with me.
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Old 25-06-08, 10:47 AM   #33
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I really really hate Italian football, the only players from todays generation I respect highly are Del Piero, Maldini, Cannavaro and Buffon. They won the last world cup by boring everyone to death.
Bit harsh mate. Nesta, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Pirlo and Inzaghi have all been top pros and top players.

If it was your team that won a world cup by playing what other nations deemed defensive boring football would you give a shit? I wouldn't.
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Old 25-06-08, 12:44 PM   #34
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Roberto Donadoni says he will not expect any compensation, if he is sacked as Italy coach.

The former Milan midfielder's future as Azzurri boss is in doubt following the world champions' quarter-final exit at Euro 2008.

The Italian Football Federation has already denied reports that a decision has been made, but president Giancarlo Abete is due to meet Donadoni in the coming days.

Donadoni only signed a new contract with Italy before the start of the European Championship, but there is a clause which allows the deal to be cancelled.

And, if Italy dispense with Donadoni, the coach has confirmed he waived the right to any compensation during the negotiations for his contract renewal.

"I said 'no' to the proposal that the president made me on the day of the renewal," Donadoni told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"I'm not interested in the economic side of things. If I'm no longer the coach for him, I'll go without asking for anything."

Reports in the Italian media have claimed that 2006 World Cup-winning coach Marcello Lippi will replace Donadoni at the helm.

http://www.skysports.com/football/eu...734818,00.html
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Old 25-06-08, 01:25 PM   #35
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Bit harsh mate. Nesta, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Pirlo and Inzaghi have all been top pros and top players.

If it was your team that won a world cup by playing what other nations deemed defensive boring football would you give a shit? I wouldn't.
I thought Zambrotta looked somewhat back to his best (or very good at least) in comparison to his performances with Barcelona last year; I'm thinking the Milan Doctors will work their age-defying magic on him....
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Old 25-06-08, 01:47 PM   #36
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Barry Glendenning didn't like the Italians either!
He certainly didn't.

It's odd actually - I have really liked the tournament but it has contained three of the worst 90 minutes I have ever had the misfortune to see: Italy - Spain, Turkey - Craotia and worst of all France - Romania.
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Old 26-06-08, 07:03 PM   #37
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Lippi re-appointed as Italy coach

Italy's 2006 World Cup-winning coach Marcello Lippi has been re-appointed after Roberto Donadoni's contract was not extended.

Donadoni left after Italy went out of Euro 2008 when they lost to Spain on penalties in the quarter-final.

Lippi, 60, will be unveiled in Rome on Tuesday, the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) said on its website.

He has been out of coaching since leading Italy to their World Cup triumph against France in Berlin.

Donadoni, 44, signed a new contract extension prior to Euro 2008 but one of the conditions of the deal was for the world champions to reach the last four.

The FIGC activated a 10-day get out clause that applied to both Donadoni and the Italian Football Federation after they lost to Spain.

Donadoni, a former AC Milan player, succeeded Lippi in 2006 but the FIGC said his tenure had "run to its natural expiry date".


"President Giancarlo Abete on Wednesday met with national coach Roberto Donadoni in the FIGC headquarters," read a brief statement on the FIGC website.

"In the course of the meeting, as already announced, they reviewed the work carried out in the last two years and how the European Championships had panned out.

"While confirming to Donadoni sincere personal admiration and appreciation for the reliability and skilled professional work which marked his time at the helm of the national side, president Abete also communicated to the coach the FIGC's decision not to renew the contract."


The Azzurri were largely uninspiring at Euro 2008 yet did manage to qualify from the so-called 'Group of Death' which contained France, Holland and Romania.

A 3-0 defeat to the Dutch in the opening Group C game was followed by a goalless draw with Romania.

They squeezed through to the quarter-final stage after beating Les Bleus 2-0 but then lost on penalties to Spain and Donadoni paid the price.

The former Lecco and Livorno boss, who guided Italy to 13 wins, five draws and five losses, said he was pleased with what he had achieved as national coach.

"I'm sorry that a penalty kick has decided this situation," he told ANSA news agency.

"Over these last two years, my Italy also did something positive, and one last game can't erase that."

He added: "I don't have the foggiest idea what I will do in the future. I've got to digest this and then start anew."

Angelo Peruzzi, Italy's third goalkeeper at the World Cup, is likely to be named an assistant coach by Lippi, and former Italy defender Ciro Ferrara could also rejoin the staff.
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Old 26-06-08, 07:16 PM   #38
Sarb
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Lippi can't help those bunch of OAP's On and how on earth Pirlo gets called the best playmaker in the world is beyond me. Nowhere near
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Old 27-06-08, 08:54 AM   #39
Neil Young
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[Pleat]Is Donadini staying on though?[/Pleat]
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Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



May the Lord bless this post.
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