Jordan Henderson

[Mattshark]

Originally Posted by PTP

lucas got low points because he's shit

[PTP]

slow day today...

[Roboklopp]

It's really fucking annoying that any slight criticism or questioning of Henderson is jumped on so vehemently. Noone is slagging him off, but he has replaced one of our best players of last season and a mainstay of the last 5 years. I've spent years defending Kuyt against criticism and now just cos I argue he shouldn't be dropped, I'm labelled as criticising our players. It's ridiculously reactionary to view our questioning thus.

[Exiled_red]

Originally Posted by Cormack74

I know it's the nature of the internet to make snap judgements but writing off Henderson after one game does strike me as a trifle premature.

[BobTheCharmer]

Originally Posted by PC Plod

It's really fucking annoying that any slight criticism or questioning of Henderson is jumped on so vehemently. Noone is slagging him off, but he has replaced one of our best players of last season and a mainstay of the last 5 years. I've spent years defending Kuyt against criticism and now just cos I argue he shouldn't be dropped, I'm labelled as criticising our players. It's ridiculously reactionary to view our questioning thus.

here in lies the problem, it seems that many of those 'questioning' henderson are firmly in the 'kuyt is undroppable' camp and it appears there may be more than a few disgruntled fans upset that dirk has been left out.

[yamiedo]

In my opinion, I would play Maxi on the right against Arsenal over Kuyt and Henderson, surely he deserves that chance after his form towards the end of last season.

[RedReet]

Originally Posted by acdmackay

In my opinion, I would play Maxi on the right against Arsenal over Kuyt and Henderson, surely he deserves that chance after his form towards the end of last season.

All Maxi’s best performances have come from the left for us, even under Rafa. Possible a coincidence and no reason not to play him on the right, but most of his performances there for us have been pretty average.

[yamiedo]

Yeah that's true but I don't see why he couldn't do the same on the right. To be fair, Kenny has hardly used him on the right, has he? I think its Kenny's tactics and management that have got the best out of Maxi.

[Roboklopp]

Originally Posted by BobTheCharmer

here in lies the problem, it seems that many of those 'questioning' henderson are firmly in the 'kuyt is undroppable' camp and it appears there may be more than a few disgruntled fans upset that dirk has been left out.

More like in your answer is the problem with the level of discussion in this place. There is no "Kuyt is undroppable camp", merely people who think he has done enough to merit someone proving over time they merit dislodging him. I could equally level the opposite argument at you, saying you're happy to play Henderson cos you've been whining about Kuyt for years.

As it happens, I'd have quite happily see Kuyt dropped over the years despite him being one of my favourite players, but that would be for someone with a different skillset- flair, pace and direct play- none of which Henderson offers in sufficient amounts to validate playing on the right IMO.

The tendancy of some here to pigeon-hole others' viewpoints into a black & White "camp" or "brigade" without bothering to understand the nuances of what they're trying to say is completely fucking mindless and undermines the whole foundations of intelligent debate.

[JohnDoe]

Henderson keeps the ball better than Kuyt and is much more suited for a possession oriented team. I'd say that Kuyt is better in the final third, while Henderson is better for the role Dalglish has earmarked him to fill and has potential to be as smart as Kuyt is offensively.

I feel that Henderson will continue to be underrated even when he settles down this season and produces good performances because his role is going to be unfashionable.

In 4-4-2, one of your wide men has to be able to come inside and play the short passing game or you can be easily overrun by a team playing three in the middle. Henderson's ability to keep the ball under pressure and his wonderful technique in tight situations is going to be valuable to us. His crossing from deep is also a weapon, and he has a knack of getting into the box in good positions, which is a sign of a player who could become a very good goalscoring midfielder.

The guy is definitely the most underrated Liverpool player in the squad and his treatment here has been shocking after just one competitive game at the age of 21.
I'm usually looked at as someone who criticizes "unfashionable players" but the reason why I rate Henderson is because I see a player who could be a wonderful fit for a pass and moving team, those are the players I want in my team.

[Fernandinho]

I think Henderson's role will bring a lot out of downing. The lopsided 4-4-2 we play will enable downing to hug the touchline and whip balls into Carroll and Suarez all day.

[Roboklopp]

Fair points John Doe - apart from the whole "criticism" thing- noone is slagging him off, just questioning his role in the team. Thing is I think he's be better more centrally.

[Vermilion]

Originally Posted by PC Plod

More like in your answer is the problem with the level of discussion in this place. There is no "Kuyt is undroppable camp", merely people who think he has done enough to merit someone proving over time they merit dislodging him. I could equally level the opposite argument at you, saying you're happy to play Henderson cos you've been whining about Kuyt for years.

As it happens, I'd have quite happily see Kuyt dropped over the years despite him being one of my favourite players, but that would be for someone with a different skillset- flair, pace and direct play- none of which Henderson offers in sufficient amounts to validate playing on the right IMO.

The tendancy of some here to pigeon-hole others' viewpoints into a black & White "camp" or "brigade" without bothering to understand the nuances of what they're trying to say is completely fucking mindless and undermines the whole foundations of intelligent debate.

[RedReet]

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

Henderson keeps the ball better than Kuyt and is much more suited for a possession oriented team. I'd say that Kuyt is better in the final third, while Henderson is better for the role Dalglish has earmarked him to fill and has potential to be as smart as Kuyt is offensively.

I feel that Henderson will continue to be underrated even when he settles down this season and produces good performances because his role is going to be unfashionable.

In 4-4-2, one of your wide men has to be able to come inside and play the short passing game or you can be easily overrun by a team playing three in the middle. Henderson's ability to keep the ball under pressure and his wonderful technique in tight situations is going to be valuable to us. His crossing from deep is also a weapon, and he has a knack of getting into the box in good positions, which is a sign of a player who could become a very good goalscoring midfielder.

The guy is definitely the most underrated Liverpool player in the squad and his treatment here has been shocking after just one competitive game at the age of 21.

I'm usually looked at as someone who criticizes "unfashionable players" but the reason why I rate Henderson is because I see a player who could be a wonderful fit for a pass and moving team, those are the players I want in my team.

So let me get this straight. Henderson is going to be good at keeping possession and playing a short passing game, areas which Lucas excels in and practically everybody can see this bar you. Henderson will ‘continue to be underrated’, no doubt by those in the ‘Kuyt is undroppable’ camp even though many of those people were supporting Kuyt even when he wasn’t playing well as they could see the qualities he could bring to the team, despite the ridicule and mocking from other fans. So these skills Henderson possesses will be oblivious to all these sorts of fans, even when he's playing well, yet not YOU?

How far are you up your own hole mate?

[RedReet]

Originally Posted by Vermilion

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by RedReet

So let me get this straight. Henderson is going to be good at keeping possession and playing a short passing game, areas which Lucas excels in and practically everybody can see this bar you. Henderson will ‘continue to be underrated’, no doubt by those in the ‘Kuyt is undroppable’ camp even though many of those people were supporting Kuyt even when he wasn’t playing well as they could see the qualities he could bring to the team, despite the ridicule and mocking from other fans. So these skills Henderson possesses will be oblivious to all these sorts of fans, even when he's playing well, yet not YOU?

How far are you up your own hole mate?

Also everything he talks of - keeping the ball under pressure, good short passing game etc - is exactly what Maxi excels at. Yet he derides him cos he's not a dead fast winger who does loads of stepovers.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Also everything he talks of - keeping the ball under pressure, good short passing game etc - is exactly what Maxi excels at. Yet he derides him cos he's not a dead fast winger who does loads of stepovers.

kinda weird how maxi being overlooked at moment (by which i mean fans not talking bout maxi for starting role - i.e. gotta be henderson or kyut) given his form last seasons final 2 months. i know rumours of returning to argentina were rife at start of summer but sure i read article saying he looking forward to competition this year in LFC squad.

id say maxi and henderson are very similar types of player in passing ability keeping ball, cutting inside etc..

[RedReet]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Also everything he talks of - keeping the ball under pressure, good short passing game etc - is exactly what Maxi excels at. Yet he derides him cos he's not a dead fast winger who does loads of stepovers.

Aye, I genuinely got the impression he looked over replies to some of his ridiculous posts and just copied and pasted what he read, then put Henderson's name in place of whoever he was slagging at that time.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by RedReet

So let me get this straight. Henderson is going to be good at keeping possession and playing a short passing game, areas which Lucas excels in and practically everybody can see this bar you. Henderson will ‘continue to be underrated’, no doubt by those in the ‘Kuyt is undroppable’ camp even though many of those people were supporting Kuyt even when he wasn’t playing well as they could see the qualities he could bring to the team, despite the ridicule and mocking from other fans. So these skills Henderson possesses will be oblivious to all these sorts of fans, even when he's playing well, yet not YOU?

How far are you up your own hole mate?

He talks guff, mate.

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by RedReet

So let me get this straight. Henderson is going to be good at keeping possession and playing a short passing game, areas which Lucas excels in and practically everybody can see this bar you.

No, he really doesn't. Lucas doesn't move the ball quickly, and doesn't move without the ball nearly as well when we're in possession. He's a poor possession player and he's extremely predictable and slow with the ball most of the time. That's all I have to say about that.

Henderson will ‘continue to be underrated’, no doubt by those in the ‘Kuyt is undroppable’ camp even though many of those people were supporting Kuyt even when he wasn’t playing well as they could see the qualities he could bring to the team, despite the ridicule and mocking from other fans. So these skills Henderson possesses will be oblivious to all these sorts of fans, even when he's playing well, yet not YOU?

How far are you up your own hole mate?

Patronizing nonsense. Where did I attack those who rate Kuyt? I like Kuyt and he'll play plenty of game, but you seem intent on personally attacking me so fuck off.

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Also everything he talks of - keeping the ball under pressure, good short passing game etc - is exactly what Maxi excels at. Yet he derides him cos he's not a dead fast winger who does loads of stepovers.

Because Henderson is better than Maxi even at the things Maxi's being "praised" for, as well as having an engine, work rate, being able to cross, run with the ball much better and pass under pressure? It's ridiculous to talk in such simplistic form and compare two players who are nothing alike just because they can somehow be looked at similarly?

Originally Posted by RedReet

Aye, I genuinely got the impression he looked over replies to some of his ridiculous posts and just copied and pasted what he read, then put Henderson's name in place of whoever he was slagging at that time.

People call me a wind up merchant but notice how instead of discussing the subject, you're just trying to discredit me. You can disagree all you want, I respect your opinion but if you're going to go down this route, all you're gonna get is a big fuck off from me.

[Shaggy]

He is a 20 year old rookie who's played 59 minutes for us. Unless you watched Sunderland every week - yeah right - you're claiming to know an awful lot about Henderson. That famous 15 minute scouting again?

You ridicule Maxi, an Argentine international with 60+ caps under his belt (and 10 goals last season, lest we forget - not bad for someone who according to you is a joke) for the same things you praise Henderson for. It comes across as hypocritical. They may be different players but they share some attributes - namely economy of possession. Only Maxi's ball retention is better and he scores more goals.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

No, he really doesn't. Lucas doesn't move the ball quickly, and doesn't move without the ball nearly as well when we're in possession. He's a poor possession player and he's extremely predictable and slow with the ball most of the time. That's all I have to say about that.

Cheers Forrest Gump

[Shaggy]

That's completely wrong as well. Lucas is highly adept at the first time pass, the quick release. Poor possession player? That's why he's the mainstay of Brazil's midfield - that lot are renowned for picking possession-shy cloggers.

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

He is a 20 year old rookie who's played 59 minutes for us. Unless you watched Sunderland every week - yeah right - you're claiming to know an awful lot about Henderson. That famous 15 minute scouting again?

I really don't have to justify my opinion because I'm pretty sure you, or anyone else, have not seen Henderson play more than me, and I don't claim to have seen him more than you either. I'm basing my opinion on watching the games, just like everyone else, and I like Henderson as a player and feel he's the type of player who's going to get overlooked by fans more often than not. That's just my opinion.

I think Lucas is massively overrated, another opinion of mine, and I think Henderson is a better player than Maxi Rodriguez. You know what, it appears that one manager of this football club agrees with me. But you can have your opinion and I can have mine, what this forum has turned into is a place where no one is capable of saying anything without it being fit into some sort of a "consensus", and that "consensus" changes like the average fickle fan every few months.

This place has turned to shit, and it's because people have stopped discussing subjects and quickly resort to slagging off posters, and I'm quickly tiring of it.

I remember myself saying I don't think Meireles has a future here even though he was in the middle of his purple scoring patch, and people have slagged me off like no tomorrow. How could I say those things, right? I mean, it was an opinion which went against the general "consensus", I deserved everything coming surely.

You ridicule Maxi, an Argentine international with 60+ caps under his belt (and 10 goals last season, lest we forget - not bad for someone who according to you is a joke) for the same things you praise Henderson for. It comes across as hypocritical. They may be different players but they share some attributes - namely economy of possession. Only Maxi's ball retention is better and he scores more goals.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Again. He's just not good enough to be in the first team for us IMO. I don't rate him much. Live with it.

[SimonNo7]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

He is a 20 year old rookie who's played 59 minutes for us. Unless you watched Sunderland every week - yeah right - you're claiming to know an awful lot about Henderson. That famous 15 minute scouting again?

You ridicule Maxi, an Argentine international with 60+ caps under his belt (and 10 goals last season, lest we forget - not bad for someone who according to you is a joke) for the same things you praise Henderson for. It comes across as hypocritical. They may be different players but they share some attributes - namely economy of possession. Only Maxi's ball retention is better and he scores more goals.

The one things I would say about this, and it's not really a criticism, is that 6 of those goals came in 2 games meaning he scored in a total of 6 games. It would of been better if those 10 goals had of come in more games but beggers can't be choosers

[Alex]

Originally Posted by SimonNo7

The one things I would say about this, and it's not really a criticism, is that 6 of those goals came in 2 games meaning he scored in a total of 6 games. It would of been better if those 10 goals had of come in more games but beggers can't be choosers

I thought you were going to say "Yeah but 6 of his goals were from two hatricks, so if he didnt score those he would only have 4"


I had a reply all lined up until I read on. Anyway, here is the reply I prepared


Ahem

If only, if only......If only me auntie had bollocks she'd be me uncle

athankyou

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

I really don't have to justify my opinion because I'm pretty sure you, or anyone else, have not seen Henderson play more than me, and I don't claim to have seen him more than you either. I'm basing my opinion on watching the games, just like everyone else, and I like Henderson as a player and feel he's the type of player who's going to get overlooked by fans more often than not. That's just my opinion.

I think Lucas is massively overrated, another opinion of mine, and I think Henderson is a better player than Maxi Rodriguez. You know what, it appears that one manager of this football club agrees with me. But you can have your opinion and I can have mine, what this forum has turned into is a place where no one is capable of saying anything without it being fit into some sort of a "consensus", and that "consensus" changes like the average fickle fan every few months.

This place has turned to shit, and it's because people have stopped discussing subjects and quickly resort to slagging off posters, and I'm quickly tiring of it.

I remember myself saying I don't think Meireles has a future here even though he was in the middle of his purple scoring patch, and people have slagged me off like no tomorrow. How could I say those things, right? I mean, it was an opinion which went against the general "consensus", I deserved everything coming surely.



You have your opinion and I have mine. Again. He's just not good enough to be in the first team for us IMO. I don't rate him much. Live with it.

Take your ball home then.

You seem surprised people are queuing up to question your posts - when you post ludicrous stuff like "Lucas is a liability" you can hardly be surprised. You also have an astonishing lack of self awareness. There aren't many posters on here more cocksure or trenchant, so don't be surprised when people point it out.

[Alex]

I think all of his points can be disputed to some degree, apart from the one where he says Lucas is overrated. After I read that I couldnt take anything else seriously.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by PTP

lucas got low points because he's shit

It's because he wasn't given sympathy points.

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Take your ball home then.

You seem surprised people are queuing up to question your posts - when you post ludicrous stuff like "Lucas is a liability" you can hardly be surprised. You also have an astonishing lack of self awareness. There aren't many posters on here more cocksure or trenchant, so don't be surprised when people point it out.

I don't mind people questioning my posts. I really don't, if people think I'm talking shit, they are free to do so. I do mind people questioning me, personally.

But then again, I could sit back and make cynical remarks over other people's opinion without ever really contributing anything to a discussion. It worked for you.

[Shaggy]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

[Craig_H]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

He is a 20 year old rookie who's played 59 minutes for us. Unless you watched Sunderland every week - yeah right - you're claiming to know an awful lot about Henderson. That famous 15 minute scouting again?

You ridicule Maxi, an Argentine international with 60+ caps under his belt (and 10 goals last season, lest we forget - not bad for someone who according to you is a joke) for the same things you praise Henderson for. It comes across as hypocritical. They may be different players but they share some attributes - namely economy of possession. Only Maxi's ball retention is better and he scores more goals.

[Glenn Hysen]

Why argue about Henderson after one game? Kenny believes in him so give the boy a chance. We should support our players and trust them to come good.

[PTP]

i think lucas is overrated too

[Exiled_red]

Originally Posted by Alex

I thought you were going to say "Yeah but 6 of his goals were from two hatricks, so if he didnt score those he would only have 4"


I had a reply all lined up until I read on. Anyway, here is the reply I prepared


Ahem





athankyou

[little dave hedgehog]

i enjoy ptp's new posting style.

[Craig_H]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hysen

Why argue about Henderson after one game? Kenny believes in him so give the boy a chance. We should support our players and trust them to come good.

What part of thinking Kuyt is a better option equates to not giving Henderson a chance and not supporting him?

[RichC]

I'd expect Kuyt to start this one, simply down to the experience factor - he's a proven big game player and Henderson might start from the bench.

I think Kuyt and Henderson will share the role on the right this season depending on who we're playing to be honest, both have different things they can bring to the side, happy to see both in the squad as again it's more options for us.

[Glenn Hysen]

Originally Posted by rcasemore

I'd expect Kuyt to start this one, simply down to the experience factor - he's a proven big game player and Henderson might start from the bench.

I think Kuyt and Henderson will share the role on the right this season depending on who we're playing to be honest, both have different things they can bring to the side, happy to see both in the squad as again it's more options for us.

[SimonNo7]

Originally Posted by Alex

I thought you were going to say "Yeah but 6 of his goals were from two hatricks, so if he didnt score those he would only have 4"


I had a reply all lined up until I read on. Anyway, here is the reply I prepared


Ahem

athankyou

I agree with you about the 'if only...if only...' but some people talk about Maxi as if he was a regular goal scorer when in fact he score in 6 league games out of 38...