It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892

Go Back   est1892 > Football > Liverpool FC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-21, 08:05 AM   #1441
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,522
Klopp mentioned mental sharpness as to what he thinks was the issue last night. Last year, with a near full squad to choose from we might have sneaked out a 1 or 2 nil win even without playing well at all. I think this year it痴 just not possible because losing 8 players through injury is difficult to cope.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 08:28 AM   #1442
BobTheCharmer
Pantomime Villain
 
BobTheCharmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
Klopp mentioned mental sharpness as to what he thinks was the issue last night. Last year, with a near full squad to choose from we might have sneaked out a 1 or 2 nil win even without playing well at all. I think this year it痴 just not possible because losing 8 players through injury is difficult to cope.
See it's this approach is where I think we are going wrong. You are right we did snesk a lot of tight games. We didn't play very well but won. Doesn't take much in football for those results to go against you. We had luck last year in tight games, this year none. Sheffield utd are finding similar but at opposite ends of the table. We have needed to find a better way of playing against teams that sit deep for a while as it was obvious you can't keep not getting out of 2nd gear and sneaking the points. Virgil from set pieces from an attacking point is a massive loss. Now our corners are pointless.

The disadvantage is our narrow pitch but then we cut inside at every opportunity anyway. Mentally the players seem lost when we play at home. They almost know they'll struggle before we kick off.
__________________
Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won稚 expect it back. Oscar Wilde
BobTheCharmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 09:41 AM   #1443
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
In the 93rd minute the ball was still being passed back and across trying to locate Salah in order for him to try and weave his way diagonally in to the penalty area. Tried 20 times last night and never looked like being effective

I've started to get annoyed watching the same rinse and repeat shit. Should never have let them find their tempo or settle in to the game, the patient starts are playing in to their hands.

And I was serious last night about giving away corners on purpose. That would fuck with our opponents minds and might be the only way to coax them out of their own half ffs
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 09:58 AM   #1444
kingfunk
Doesnt subscribe to Craig's conspiracy theories!
 
kingfunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,490
Funnily enough I fancy is to beat city, Leicester and everton then lose to Sheffield United and Fulham!
__________________
UCL Champions 2019
EPL Champions 2020
kingfunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 10:07 AM   #1445
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfunk View Post
Funnily enough I fancy is to beat city, Leicester and everton then lose to Sheffield United and Fulham!
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 12:53 PM   #1446
baitman
Daddy day care
 
baitman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 22,378
Our army of midgets run around their defensive phalanx and bounce off with little chance of penetration, we try to wriggle into the gaps but they become smaller as the approach play stutters and players take an extra touch or two.
Chipping balls across their area in the vain attempt that we might benefit is like trying to throw a curly plastic 」5 into a vending machine slot from across the road.
__________________
Champions of Europe and the World. removing all the weak links makes us stronger

too many gutless players, no beef or desire. pussies everywhere... sack them all, but not VVD or Alisson
baitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 01:30 PM   #1447
BobTheCharmer
Pantomime Villain
 
BobTheCharmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,277
I do especially like it when we are attacking on the break and get to the corner of their box, slow down to let their players get back in position before passing it about a bit, usually backwards and eventually it is back at the feet of the keeper.
__________________
Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won稚 expect it back. Oscar Wilde
BobTheCharmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 02:43 PM   #1448
ntto
Dalglish
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,489
I wonder if Dzeko would have been an option until the end of the season - gives us somebody to attack all of those aimless crosses
ntto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 11:05 PM   #1449
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheCharmer View Post
I do especially like it when we are attacking on the break and get to the corner of their box, slow down to let their players get back in position before passing it about a bit, usually backwards and eventually it is back at the feet of the keeper.
That is exactly how it looks. Or we take a short corner and 5 passes later it's back with our keeper, but hey we didn't lose possession
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-21, 11:06 PM   #1450
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntto View Post
I wonder if Dzeko would have been an option until the end of the season - gives us somebody to attack all of those aimless crosses
So he could chest them in?
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-21, 02:16 PM   #1451
Scratch
If you fail once....
 
Scratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
Klopp mentioned mental sharpness as to what he thinks was the issue last night. Last year, with a near full squad to choose from we might have sneaked out a 1 or 2 nil win even without playing well at all. I think this year it痴 just not possible because losing 8 players through injury is difficult to cope.
Losing 8 players is a kick, but I think it's the fact that the remaining players are now having to play continuously, with no resting those that maybe could do with a break. That team against Brighton should have been more than enough to beat them, but factor in a bit of fatigue and decision making suddenly seems so much harder.

We just can't rotate players at the moment, cos we either don't have the squad depth in the right areas or the players we do have as back-up just aren't good enough.
__________________
Scratch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:11 PM   #1452
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
Would like to be wrong but expect us to struggle again at the weekend. Tonight, as with WHU and Spurs, was helped by the fact they wanted to play in our half, and wanted the ball.

Be interesting to see if Everton want to play but Anchelotti is a wiley old fox and I can't see him being prepared for an open game
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:17 PM   #1453
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,522
This malarkey with teams defending deep and flucking a win against us will end soon. I知 confident of it. We just need to pen them back and again and again and again and again and not lose our patience.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:24 PM   #1454
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
You'd hope so but that will be how every team will try and nullify us
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:27 PM   #1455
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,522
Yeah which is fine by me. We never had that much of a problem the last few years with that kind of football so I expect us to get back to somewhere close to that soon enough.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:30 PM   #1456
Ams12
Dalglish
 
Ams12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,558
We just need to be clinical and take our chances because we do make them. And also not play into other teams hands by lumping in crosses to small forwards vs large defenders!

Once we get the goal then the game should suit us more. But yes agree we need to keep our patience and move the ball quickly and not give up possession cheaply!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ams12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:38 PM   #1457
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbs View Post
Would like to be wrong but expect us to struggle again at the weekend. Tonight, as with WHU and Spurs, was helped by the fact they wanted to play in our half, and wanted the ball.

Be interesting to see if Everton want to play but Anchelotti is a wiley old fox and I can't see him being prepared for an open game
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:40 PM   #1458
S-RED
Dalglish
 
S-RED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,413
really want us to plat kabak/phillips at the back & jord in midfield at the weekend
S-RED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:40 PM   #1459
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbs View Post
Would like to be wrong but expect us to struggle again at the weekend. Tonight, as with WHU and Spurs, was helped by the fact they wanted to play in our half, and wanted the ball.

Be interesting to see if Everton want to play but Anchelotti is a wiley old fox and I can't see him being prepared for an open game
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-21, 11:46 PM   #1460
S-RED
Dalglish
 
S-RED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,413
kavangh saturday; expect him to shit his pants.........
S-RED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 10:14 PM   #1461
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,582
A week to prep for the next match.

Hope fully Fab back? Maybe Jota and Milner? I’d be well up for changing it up. Give Trent license to roam a bit more and force the game.

What about....

———————————Becker——————————

Williams————-Phillips——Kabak————Robbo

——————-————Fabinho——————————

Trent—————Milner—————Keita———-—Jota

———————————Salah———————————

Benched: Gini, Sadio, Bobby, Thiago
__________________
Create a memory

Crowdfund

Vlog
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 10:31 PM   #1462
Roboklopp
Cuboid Humanoid
 
Roboklopp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,824
Dunno. Not watching. Life is hard enough without this bilge. Massive strop.
__________________
3 Cups and the Champions League.
Roboklopp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 10:33 PM   #1463
npinn001
Benitez
 
npinn001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboklopp View Post
Dunno. Not watching. Life is hard enough without this bilge. Massive strop.
Ha ha. I do that after every bad result at the moment. Still end up watching the next one though....

Sent from my Mi 10 using Tapatalk
npinn001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 10:36 PM   #1464
Roboklopp
Cuboid Humanoid
 
Roboklopp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,824
I know. I nearly missed the Leicestershire one until some cunt told me it was on. I’m getting closer to not watching defo.
__________________
3 Cups and the Champions League.
Roboklopp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 10:42 PM   #1465
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,172
I said this in the match thread but for me the midfield are a massive part of the problem, I appreciate that they are missing Henderson and Fabinho but at the start of the season you would say the starting 3 would come from Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Thiago, we still have two of those available. Despite the problems at the back they don't seem to be playing a more defensive game. With Henderson in there when the fullbacks go forward Henderson would fill in, no one is doing that now, if fullbacks are caught out of position opposition are 2 vs 2. OK you can argue that they are the more attacking 2 of the 4, but if that was the case you could expect to see more from us going forward, but we aren't, we've failed to score in 6 of our last 10 PL games, and it's not like we are wasting alot of chances, real chances are hard to come by maybe just a couple a game. so what are they doing in there?
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-21, 11:16 PM   #1466
Scratch
If you fail once....
 
Scratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_red View Post
I said this in the match thread but for me the midfield are a massive part of the problem, I appreciate that they are missing Henderson and Fabinho but at the start of the season you would say the starting 3 would come from Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Thiago, we still have two of those available. Despite the problems at the back they don't seem to be playing a more defensive game. With Henderson in there when the fullbacks go forward Henderson would fill in, no one is doing that now, if fullbacks are caught out of position opposition are 2 vs 2. OK you can argue that they are the more attacking 2 of the 4, but if that was the case you could expect to see more from us going forward, but we aren't, we've failed to score in 6 of our last 10 PL games, and it's not like we are wasting alot of chances, real chances are hard to come by maybe just a couple a game. so what are they doing in there?
Yes, 2 of them are potentially first choices, but they are playing every game, there's no rest for them. To do this, they are having to play at 80%, managing their energy and still suffering from mental/physical fatigue. The midfield, in a normal season, is our most rotated position, cos they are our engine. But this year, due to injuries, we have no rotation options, so we go with what we have and try to survive.
__________________
Scratch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 02:35 AM   #1467
BigChief
Paisley
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_red View Post
I said this in the match thread but for me the midfield are a massive part of the problem, I appreciate that they are missing Henderson and Fabinho but at the start of the season you would say the starting 3 would come from Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Thiago, we still have two of those available. Despite the problems at the back they don't seem to be playing a more defensive game. With Henderson in there when the fullbacks go forward Henderson would fill in, no one is doing that now, if fullbacks are caught out of position opposition are 2 vs 2. OK you can argue that they are the more attacking 2 of the 4, but if that was the case you could expect to see more from us going forward, but we aren't, we've failed to score in 6 of our last 10 PL games, and it's not like we are wasting alot of chances, real chances are hard to come by maybe just a couple a game. so what are they doing in there?
Yep, injuries aside, we're playing with a complete lack of identity. Therefore it's making us look utterly clueless regardless of whether the opposition is City or Fulham.

Klopp seems to use plan A, and if plan A doesn't work, use plan A harder. Which is great when you have a world class XI fit. But if the oppos have figured this out and are all using the same tactics against us then change FFS. We don't need a non finishing, non striking striker that works hard. Put Shaq or Ox in his place for shots outside the box instead. That will give the defences something new to think about.

We also don't need Gini to cover our fullbacks when they bomb forward because quite frankly he's not offering that cover anymore. No one is. So just use a more offensive midfielder rather than a nothing player in the middle. Let's get an identity through this injury crisis of a team that likes to attack and can be got at, then we adjust and catch teams out when they attack. Right now we're being got at but offer nothing at the other end.
__________________
It's Kloppering time!
BigChief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 08:28 AM   #1468
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,333
Expect this to continue and our European form to buck the trend. It feel almost scripted
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 10:59 AM   #1469
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,260
I can't believe how easy we are to play against
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 11:23 AM   #1470
fabinho
Benitez
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by danperkins View Post
I can't believe how easy we are to play against
This is a concern. We've only won 2 league games this year, and we're just as likely to lose to a team at the bottom of the table as we are to one at the top. We're actually seen as a soft touch at the moment, teams probably can't wait to play us, low confidence on our side and high confidence on theirs is a terrible combination.
__________________
Virg!
fabinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 11:37 AM   #1471
BigChief
Paisley
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by danperkins View Post
I can't believe how easy we are to play against
These players have missed, or will miss, 7 or more league games this season. Often together:

Alisson/Kelleher
Gomez Matip VvD Milner
Hendo Fab Keita
Shaq Jota another

If that team played our usual turnout we'd get battered:

Alisson/Kelleher
TAA Phillips Kabak Robertson
Jones Thiago Gini
Salah Firmino Mane
__________________
It's Kloppering time!
BigChief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 11:41 AM   #1472
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
A week to prep for the next match.

Hope fully Fab back? Maybe Jota and Milner? I壇 be well up for changing it up. Give Trent license to roam a bit more and force the game.

What about....

覧覧覧覧覧唯ecker覧覧覧覧覧

Williams覧覧-Phillips覧Kabak覧覧Robbo

覧覧覧-覧覧Fabinho覧覧覧覧覧

Trent覧覧柚ilner覧覧揖eita覧-憂ota

覧覧覧覧覧祐alah覧覧覧覧覧

Benched: Gini, Sadio, Bobby, Thiago

I would not drop Williams into a line uo like that. Would just be another weak/untested link in the back line. Same with putting Trent in the RM/RW role. He has more time to attack when he plays at RB, more time to see the game ahead of him, plus he has been pretty damn good at RB for most of his career to date.

It would give us three out of four of our back line learning to play together at senior level, and it would give us an entire right flank of players playing either in a new role (Trent) or somewhat untested in it (Williams, I know he has played there for us before but he is hardly battle tested and a tried and trusted stand in yet)

Would much prefer to try and put the best fit natural player for each position in that position, and the left over positions can get the best available natural stand in player for that position.

We have far too much chopping and changing going on imo, and far too much of weakening one section of the time to help create a pathed up version of another section of the team.

We are now very close to the point of having our two best CBs out at the same time as our two best midfielders being out along with a smattering of other injuries and niggles on top of that.


Our much vaunted spine is now down to a single vertebra in Alisson.
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to
Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do
Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you
And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 11:56 AM   #1473
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabinho View Post
This is a concern. We've only won 2 league games this year, and we're just as likely to lose to a team at the bottom of the table as we are to one at the top. We're actually seen as a soft touch at the moment, teams probably can't wait to play us, low confidence on our side and high confidence on theirs is a terrible combination.
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 08:39 PM   #1474
Big-Red-Ed
Fagan
 
Big-Red-Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
Time to rip the playbook up and start again or at least mix it up a bit. Our present system relies on so many things that currently aren't working due to injuries and loss of form. But more importantly we've been well and truly worked out. So Klopp needs to come up with a plan to extricate ourselves from this horrible slide.

YNWA
Big-Red-Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-21, 08:57 PM   #1475
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Red-Ed View Post
Time to rip the playbook up and start again or at least mix it up a bit. Our present system relies on so many things that currently aren't working due to injuries and loss of form. But more importantly we've been well and truly worked out. So Klopp needs to come up with a plan to extricate ourselves from this horrible slide.

YNWA
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 12:16 PM   #1476
kingfunk
Doesnt subscribe to Craig's conspiracy theories!
 
kingfunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,490
I’d like to see us try 4141 against Sheffield. TAA, Robo, Philips, kabak. Then Thiago in the hole to dictate/break up play. Ideally Gino and Fab as CMs, Mane left wing, Ox/Shaq/Jones Right wing and Salah up front. Need to try something different.
__________________
UCL Champions 2019
EPL Champions 2020
kingfunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 12:25 PM   #1477
Pepe79
Shankly
 
Pepe79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfunk View Post
I’d like to see us try 4141 against Sheffield. TAA, Robo, Philips, kabak. Then Thiago in the hole to dictate/break up play. Ideally Gino and Fab as CMs, Mane left wing, Ox/Shaq/Jones Right wing and Salah up front. Need to try something different.
Thiago as the 1 is a bad idea imo. It’s the defensive stuff he’s struggling with.
If you’ve got Fab is in the team, put him as the DM, get Thiago further up the midfield where he can concentrate on pulling the strings.
Pepe79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 08:55 PM   #1478
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,522
Apparently we created better chances than Man City against Everton in xG numbers.

One thing that we need to remember about criticism of why Klopp wouldn稚 change, is that maybe he has the stats to back him up from his team of analysts, while we just make assumptions.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 09:04 PM   #1479
Slinky Skills
Micka "don't f*** with me" Wallace
 
Slinky Skills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,607
Good from Scholes and Jenas this.

__________________
Klopp on LFC vs MUFC (March 9th 2016) - "This is why I love football. This is why we watched it when we were young. I can still not have enough of it."


Always, keep your face to the sun, and shadows will fall behind you.
Slinky Skills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-21, 01:19 PM   #1480
Paul12
Benitez
 
Paul12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 869
Rotten luck with injuries
Loss of form
Fierce competition

But also (a) a more intense programme of games means our style is not sustainable and (b) some players (Neco, Kostas and Taki) have not come through in the way we hoped (so the squad is not as thick as we thought it was).

In my view, we need to play as many of our players in their best positions, accept that means we will have weaknesses elsewhere and just try to outgun teams.
Paul12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > Football > Liverpool FC

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.