The Rugby Thread - Page 109

Buzzo · 23-02-20, 07:27 PM

I think of the game plays out the way it did few teams will handle England.

One of the things they don’t like is broken field play as we have shown over the last few years (one of the few things we’ve done fairly well). If it is a structured game then England just run over the top of you.

Ireland looked a bit devoid of ideas (a bit like us yesterday) with the Sexton wrap around and crash ball seeming a bit obvious. Murray and Sexton are a safe pair of hands... but... getting a bit predictable? Sexton missing his kicks was brutal also if he’d made them then the game would have been a lot tighter and more scoreboard pressure on England.

As it was they won quite comfortably.

Dull game.

Irishnev · 23-02-20, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

I think of the game plays out the way it did few teams will handle England.

One of the things they don’t like is broken field play as we have shown over the last few years (one of the few things we’ve done fairly well). If it is a structured game then England just run over the top of you.

Ireland looked a bit devoid of ideas (a bit like us yesterday) with the Sexton wrap around and crash ball seeming a bit obvious. Murray and Sexton are a safe pair of hands... but... getting a bit predictable? Sexton missing his kicks was brutal also if he’d made them then the game would have been a lot tighter and more scoreboard pressure on England.

As it was they won quite comfortably.

Dull game.

I think England had gears to go up and if they had to they’d have upped it. Our game plan is done now - hopefully Farrell et al can reinvent the back line because as you said it is soooooooo predictable.

Sexton commands a strong grip on the 10 shirt and it will be a brave man to drop him. I’d start fresh and bin him off

- the one positive is the fact we have an abundance of top young players coming through....the negative is that they are mostly Leinster

Buzzo · 23-02-20, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev

I think England had gears to go up and if they had to they’d have upped it. Our game plan is done now - hopefully Farrell et al can reinvent the back line because as you said it is soooooooo predictable.

Sexton commands a strong grip on the 10 shirt and it will be a brave man to drop him. I’d start fresh and bin him off

- the one positive is the fact we have an abundance of top young players coming through....the negative is that they are mostly Leinster

Leinster are ridiculously good. The Pro 14 is a one horse race.

Cormack74 · 23-02-20, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev

We don’t have the physicality to match them even though they were missing the two Vunipolas. The score flattered us and we have too many players there on reputation - I’d bin Sexton, he is a fucking nightmare to listen to and when Carbury gets fit play him.

We are playing an antiquated brand of rugby and haven’t changed it up since the end of Schmidt’s reign. I expected a defeat so not that disappointed but I thought we’d put up more of a fight - we were bullied all over the pitch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

I think of the game plays out the way it did few teams will handle England.

One of the things they don’t like is broken field play as we have shown over the last few years (one of the few things we’ve done fairly well). If it is a structured game then England just run over the top of you.

Ireland looked a bit devoid of ideas (a bit like us yesterday) with the Sexton wrap around and crash ball seeming a bit obvious. Murray and Sexton are a safe pair of hands... but... getting a bit predictable? Sexton missing his kicks was brutal also if he’d made them then the game would have been a lot tighter and more scoreboard pressure on England.

Was out this afternoon so watched this on record.

As Buzzo says you have to do something different against England because if you play conventional then you're probably going to lose.

Maybe not necessarily broken field because England are pretty lively with two '7' s a fairly mobile front row (leaving aside Marler) and a quick back three, but definitely something unexpected.

Ireland didn't really look up for a physical battle and just sort of spluttered when they had the ball.

That bit surprised me because they have some handy backs and a couple of good attack coaches in Farrell and Catt. Maybe Sexton's time is up, it didn't help that he started with a couple of big errors (the try and the missed kick), but it's always difficult playing behind a pack that's being dominated.

Although Ackee brings some graft and does produce gain line success he's no Tuilangi and I'd be tempted to play a more creative player there.

Whatever the issues I hope they sort them out before playing France and obviously that Buzzo's lot have a big performance saved up for that game too

Buzzo · 23-02-20, 10:29 PM

We've got a decent recent record at home v France. But I think they will beat us comfortably.

We miss Finn. Whatever has gone on, Hastings is not ready to run the game from 10 and Finn would be well up for a game v the French. Hastings was really poor yesterday I thought.

France deserve the Slam on this form, but I reckon they will tank in the last game v Ireland.

The first 2 trys today were laughable from an Irish perspective, really poor.

Buzzo · 23-02-20, 10:42 PM

It has been kind of a strange tournament, because I think all of the home nations are currently left with more questions than answers.

It's just not been the best 6N's of all time. Maybe understandable after the WC and with so many coaching changes.

The atmosphere at Twickenham seemed soooo shit.

I know someone who was in Dublin for the Ire v Sco game and he said that was flat also. The Calcutta was flat because of the weather. I suppose it was a cracking atmos in Cardiff... but... just a slightly dull 6N's so far.

Cormack74 · 24-02-20, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

It has been kind of a strange tournament, because I think all of the home nations are currently left with more questions than answers.

It's just not been the best 6N's of all time. Maybe understandable after the WC and with so many coaching changes.

The atmosphere at Twickenham seemed soooo shit.

I know someone who was in Dublin for the Ire v Sco game and he said that was flat also. The Calcutta was flat because of the weather. I suppose it was a cracking atmos in Cardiff... but... just a slightly dull 6N's so far.

Good point, I think that's definitely been a factor in one way or another.

I can't think back to all the games (I struggle to think back to this morning

) but the weather has definitely been a factor too, to a greater or lesser extent.

Maybe the tournament will get its' mojo back if Scotland, England and Ireland win next time out and we end up with three potential winners on the last day?

Buzzo · 26-02-20, 03:59 PM

Cormack74 · 26-02-20, 05:45 PM

It might be about 2 years until we complete the 2020 Championship

Buzzo · 26-02-20, 05:59 PM

Italy really aren't making a massively compelling case for their continued participation in the 6N's.

Irishnev · 01-03-20, 05:15 PM

Buzzo · 01-03-20, 05:20 PM

Amazing reading of the game and execution.

We’ll not being seeing that for Scotland this 6Ns as it has been decided he will sit it out and come back for the summer tour. There have been positive talks but what a failure of management this has been.

We absolutely lack that sort of vision and ability.

Cormack74 · 01-03-20, 06:20 PM

Watched Jack Carty playing for Connacht today v Southern Kings (poor red card decision against Connacht BTW).

SK aren't great but he looked handy Nev. Where does he sit in the Irish 10's pecking order?

Irishnev · 01-03-20, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormack74

Watched Jack Carty playing for Connacht today v Southern Kings (poor red card decision against Connacht BTW).

SK aren't great but he looked handy Nev. Where does he sit in the Irish 10's pecking order?

Sexton is no 1 - for me he should never had been made captain as he is 34 and his best days are long behind him

Carbury is no 2 but he is always injured......has the potential to be a fine player

Carthy was 3 but fell out of form so is a little behind Ross Byrne who is the backup Leinster 10

The real bolter is Jack Crowley the u-20 outhalf from Munster and seems to be the heir apparent to ROG.....massive prospect along with a bunch of others coming through

Cormack74 · 02-03-20, 09:07 PM

Hmm so nowhere near an International call then

I don't watch much if any of the Pro 14 these days but I thought he looked handy yesterday, invariably picking the right option - not always easy when 3/4 of the game is played a man short.

Irishnev · 02-03-20, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormack74

Hmm so nowhere near an International call then

I don't watch much if any of the Pro 14 these days but I thought he looked handy yesterday, invariably picking the right option - not always easy when 3/4 of the game is played a man short.

He played in the WC and did ok with his time but his club form regressed - I see Carbury is out for the season now so he might get opportunities internationally if we ever resume

Cormack74 · 07-03-20, 10:07 PM

So England take the triple crown

Over to Buzzo and friends to de-rail the froggies.

Buzzo · 08-03-20, 12:33 AM

We've got a decent recent home record v the French, but this is such a new team for them.

Not confident.

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 12:59 PM

Listening to some analysis earlier along the lines that the French haven't had to come from behind in any game they've played this year which is an entirely different dynamic to playing with a lead.

So a fast start please GT

Is it proper Scottish weather up there today? Hopefully that will give them something different to think about too

Buzzo · 08-03-20, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormack74

Listening to some analysis earlier along the lines that the French haven't had to come from behind in any game they've played this year which is an entirely different dynamic to playing with a lead.

So a fast start please GT

Is it proper Scottish weather up there today? Hopefully that will give them something different to think about too

It’s a nice day. To be honest the bad weather used to be a bonus for us, but not so much anymore.

It’s nicely set up today, a confident French team... but we have seen what has happened to confident French teams before.

It’s just Finn Russell. We look bereft of ideas without him and imagine how up for this Russell would have been.

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

It’s a nice day. To be honest the bad weather used to be a bonus for us, but not so much anymore.

Maybe it's going to be an open game then. Scotland to edge an eleven try thriller

Buzzo · 08-03-20, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormack74

Maybe it's going to be an open game then. Scotland to edge an eleven try thriller

I’ll be happy if Scotland edge anything results wise.

At the ground, queuing for a beer.

It’s windy.

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 04:01 PM

Scotland's kit looks like they're off to play a T20 straight after this match

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 04:13 PM

Interesting call.

The ref was going penalty only until Barnes got involved. He loves to out give sanctions and he's probably also getting the french back for cheating a couple of years ago in the 'Propgate' match.

You owe us one Buzzo

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 04:35 PM

Ref consistently failing to spot French players swinging round the side and entering from the side at rucks

ChesterDave · 08-03-20, 04:46 PM

100% red surely?

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 04:50 PM

Yeah Barnes is loving this

telling the ref he has no option but to send the bloke off

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 04:51 PM

I wonder if this was a Scottish plan - to rile the French the way England used to until the point that they lose their cool.

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 07:50 PM

Good Scottish win. The way they played, I think they would have won even if it had been 15 v 15.

Hastings stepped up today and I finally realized who his face reminds me of. Not sure why it's taken me so long. Step forward fellow 10 England's George Ford.

Distant cousins - I have no doubt.

Buzzo · 08-03-20, 07:59 PM

Yeah, even with a thunderous Marseilles, it felt like we were up for this in a truly horrific at kit.

France got lucky with first yellow, looked a red all day long to me.

We outmuscled them early on and really they only played with any fluency late in the game.

Great win built on a platform of hard work and industry from Watson, Gilchrist and a phenomenal Jamie Richie.

Great win. Need to back it up next week.

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 10:08 PM

I thought the ref was bang average. Some of that was Northern Hemisphere expectations from a Southern Hemisphere ref but some of it was just poor decision making and missing obvious stuff.

Without dear Wayne chipping in there might not have been a card in the match

Buzzo · 08-03-20, 10:20 PM

He seemed to misread everything. Watching it back and home seemed clueless around the big flash points.

I thought we were well worth our win, the team looked very focused which is not something you’d ever say about a Scotland team.

Penny for Finn Russell’s thoughts, I’ve been a batch critic of Adam Hastings, but he was great today.

I wonder when this 6Ns will ever get finished?

Cormack74 · 08-03-20, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

I wonder when this 6Ns will ever get finished?

I can see the remaining fixtures being played as part of the Autumn series of games to be honest.

Buzzo · 09-03-20, 02:49 PM

Wales v Scotland the only game to survive.

Buzzo · 12-03-20, 05:51 PM

Pro 14 suspended.

Cormack74 · 12-03-20, 11:04 PM

dupe

Cormack74 · 12-03-20, 11:06 PM

Marler banned for 10 weeks for fondling A W-J.

Seems a bit harsh really when the sentencing regime (which sets sentencing guidelines) is designed to deal with serious foul play rather than people messing about. (Not that I'm condoning him doing it mind).

Zapater · 13-03-20, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormack74

Marler banned for 10 weeks for fondling A W-J.

Seems a bit harsh really when the sentencing regime (which sets sentencing guidelines) is designed to deal with serious foul play rather than people messing about. (Not that I'm condoning him doing it mind).

Whilst I agree it is a little harsh, it is inappropriate. It's really not funny... at all. As Will Greenwood said on SSN earlier in the week, many people wouldn't be amused if that happened to their son on the pitch, so it sets a standard to eradicate it at any level.

A bit different, but my dad thought it was hilarious when I got into a punch up with a balding 35 year old on a football pitch when I was around 16.

Cormack74 · 05-04-20, 10:15 AM

McGeeghan picking his Lions team a year early.

Still makes a nice change to read about sport.

And of course he's done the right thing by 'picking' some of your boys Buzzo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52158743

Back 3

Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Anthony Watson (England) & Liam Williams (Wales)

"The Test team you think you will have never actually materialises," says McGeechan. "Players always come through, but for now I'd definitely have those three. Hogg has been playing great rugby and is in. I'd definitely have Watson. He's great under the high ball, has unbelievable feet and would be outstanding on hard South African grounds. Liam is the one I'd go for on the left wing.

"There are others - Jordan Larmour, Jonny May, Josh Adams, George North, Andrew Conway - and one I'd be really thinking about is Elliot Daly, a really good footballer who can play in any position in the back three but he also kicks goals from halfway. With two games at altitude it that means that 10m inside your own half is in his range so that forces South Africa to have a real discipline because they know he can hurt them."

Midfield

Jonathan Davies (Wales), Manu Tuilagi (England)

He's been impressed by Sam Johnson and Robbie Henshaw, but Jonathan Davies is McGeechan's outside centre even though he was injured and missed the Six Nations. The Welshman has more than enough credit in the bank given that he was Lions player of the series three years ago in New Zealand and was magnificent for Wales in 2019, their latest Grand Slam year.

"He'd be my pick, if fit. If he's not, it's likely to be Henry Slade," McGeechan says. "I really rate his decision-making. I think he would excel with the Lions. At 12, I have to go with Manu. There's such power there. And you'll need that."

Fly half

Owen Farrell (England)

There's a shortlist of three here - Farrell, Dan Biggar and Finn Russell. McGeechan would take all three, but Farrell makes the Test team by dint of his control of a game, his big-match temperament and his dead-eye goalkicking.

"Johnny Sexton has been a magnificent player but he hasn't played really well for quite some time and he'll be 35 in July," he explains. "George Ford has played well for England, particularly when on the front foot, but the real test, as he discovered in the World Cup final, is how a fly-half performs on the back foot and he has something to work on.

"Farrell and Biggar can manage a game behind a struggling pack, so they'll be very important. Finn just gives you something very different. It would be fascinating to see him on a Lions tour from the start."

Scrum half

Gareth Davies (Wales)

"I have four on my list and only three will probably go," McGeechan says. "There's Davies and Rhys Webb from Wales, Conor Murray from Ireland, and Ali Price from Scotland.

"Murray has not been himself for a while now and that's a concern. I'd really like to see Price coming through because I enjoy the way he plays. But if I had to call it, I'd say Davies. He's a terrific player.

Loose head

Rory Sutherland (Scotland)

Like the rest of us, McGeechan watched in admiration - and occasional awe - as Sutherland came back from the rugby wilderness during the Six Nations. The prop was absent from the big stage for more than three years but returned with a series of powerhouse performances. McGeechan calls him a "bolter". And he's in.

"There's a huge amount of competition," he says. "Ellis Genge and Mako Vunipola from England - although Mako seems to get injured a hell of a lot - Cian Healy from Ireland and Wyn Jones from Wales.

"On form, I have to go with Sutherland. He's been absolutely brilliant. He's not just a good technical rugby player, he can play, he can run, he makes an impact. His story is an incredible one. I'd love to see him kick on."

Hooker

Jamie George (England)

"Right now, I'd say there's four clear candidates, but all of this can change," McGeechan says. "There's Jamie George and Luke Cowan Dickie, there's Ken Owens and there's Stuart McInally.

"Three hookers will travel, but I think George is the pick of them. Fantastic consistency, tough, good set-piece performer, just a very solid character. He will take some shifting."

Tight head

Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)

This looks like it could be a three-horse race between Tadhg Furlong, an epic Lion in New Zealand in 2017; Kyle Sinckler, who has become more and more critical to everything England are doing; and Zander Fagerson, who discovered his very best stuff this season.

"I'd still have Furlong," says McGeechan. "He's not had a brilliant season but he's such a good player and in these circumstances you would get the best out of him. He'd rise to the challenge. He's done it before."

Second row

Maro Itoje (England) & James Ryan (Ireland)

McGeechan laughs when considering the options here, because there's so many. Maro Itoje, George Kruis and Joe Launchbury of England; Iain Henderson and James Ryan of Ireland; Alun Wyn Jones of Wales; Grant Gilchrist of Scotland. That's just for starters.

"It's a wealth of talent," he says. "Itoje is definitely one of them and I'd bracket him as a possible captain. He's a hell of a competitor. When you watch him, he's into everything. He reads things so well, he's niggling, he leads by example. He's a really intelligent lad and a really intelligent rugby player.

"A lot of people would probably go for Alun Wyn alongside him, but I wouldn't. Alun Wyn would be an outstanding off-field captain, a standard-setter, a senior figure, but with another year on the clock and some of the other talent that's out there I'd go somewhere else for Maro's partner. And that would be James Ryan - another very bright guy, another very hard and driven player with a massive work ethic.

"Those two could be unbelievable. They are two natural leaders and I'd be intrigued to see how their chemistry evolves on a Lions tour."

Blindside

Jamie Ritchie (Scotland)

The Six Nations blindsides were Aaron Wainwright, CJ Stander, Jamie Ritchie, Courtney Lawes and Peter O'Mahony, with some of them capable of moving around the back-row. McGeechan is also classifying Sam Underhill as six.

"Lawes is very close - he's getting better and better at six," he says. "There's also the argument about having an extra player in the lineout against SA and he's strong there. But I'd go with Ritchie. He's tough, mobile, into everything. He's a carrier, a leader, he's improving game on game and I think he could be outstanding in a Lions jersey."

No.8

Billy Vunipola (England)

"If I was picking on this season's Six Nations, I'd go with CJ Stander," McGeechan says. "If everybody was 100% fit, I'd go with Vunipola.

"There are options. Taulupe Faletau is coming back into it, Nick Haining has really impressed me and Caelan Doris is one to watch very closely. He was unlucky with injury but he might well come through over the next 12 months and overtake everybody. He's an outstanding young talent.

"It's hard to look past a fit Billy, though. Ritchie, Curry and Vunipola would be a very exciting back-row but you could go Lawes, Watson, Doris or Stander, Tipuric, Faletau. You could have a dozen combinations."

Open side

Tom Curry (England)

There's no shortage of formidable sevens on this list. Justin Tipuric, Hamish Watson, Josh van der Flier, Dan Leavy (if he can get himself fit), and Curry. The Englishman gets the nod from McGeechan even though he's being played at number eight for his country in the absence of the injured Billy Vunipola.

"A very clever player, a relentless guy with a huge engine. He'd come into his own in a Lions environment," he says.

Buzzo · 05-04-20, 01:15 PM

That’s a decent team.

McGeechan never have any Scots a free ride when he was coach so I’d imagine anyone there now is in on merit.

Ridiculous Lions depth in the second and back row.

I rewatched this and last years Calcutta Cups. We had more territory than I remembered this year.