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Old 22-11-20, 06:00 PM   #4601
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Fair point.

A lot of Scottish huff and puff second half but France hold on.

We miss the guile of Russell. We look a lot more solid but we need that flair.
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Old 22-11-20, 06:03 PM   #4602
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Hogg kicks the ball dead with an injury time pen going for a 5m line out.

Sums up a lot of our play.

France deserve the win though.
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Old 22-11-20, 06:17 PM   #4603
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Hogg kicks the ball dead with an injury time pen going for a 5m line out.

Sums up a lot of our play.

France deserve the win though.
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Old 22-11-20, 06:24 PM   #4604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
Hogg kicks the ball dead with an injury time pen going for a 5m line out.

Sums up a lot of our play.

France deserve the win though.
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Hogg kicks the ball dead with an injury time pen going for a 5m line out.

Sums up a lot of our play.

France deserve the win though.


Two exact posts 14 minutes apart.

Have you been heading a lot of footballs in recent days
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Old 22-11-20, 06:27 PM   #4605
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That’s weird!

Maybe I have?
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Old 23-11-20, 07:34 PM   #4606
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I see Billy Burns is on Nev - how is he Irish, the family are from Gloucester or Bath.
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Just like those Tuilagi and Vunipola lads.........as English as you get

We’ll take anyone Cormack - not fussy
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The Vunipola lads are basically Welsh
I hadn't paid much attention to Wales these past couple of weeks, but I realized watching the highlights last night that they are getting us back by picking two highly promising English centres in the past couple of weeks - Nick Tompkins and Johnny Williams both of whom have played for England Under 20's.

Not sure what happened there
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Old 23-11-20, 07:54 PM   #4607
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I hadn't paid much attention to Wales these past couple of weeks, but I realized watching the highlights last night that they are getting us back by picking two highly promising English centres in the past couple of weeks - Nick Tompkins and Johnny Williams both of whom have played for England Under 20's.

Not sure what happened there
Did I see that the U-20 side Burns was a part of has guys playing for Ireland, Scotland and Italy now
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Old 23-11-20, 07:58 PM   #4608
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Did I see that the U-20 side Burns was a part of has guys playing for Ireland, Scotland and Italy now

Yeah the two I mentioned plus Sisi (Italy), Ross Moriarty (Wales) and Buzzo's favourite Devonian Sam Skinner
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Old 23-11-20, 08:03 PM   #4609
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Actually I've just googled it and apparently there are another 5 but it's on the Telegraph site behind a pay wall so I can't see all of them.

But there are pics of Will Addison and Tom Heathcote so they are evidently two of the 5.
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Old 23-11-20, 08:09 PM   #4610
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The Philistines on this site may not be interested in reading this given it's more about rugby than football so I've put it here rather than in 'Our style of play' where it probably might have sat better.

Oh and try and overlook the fact it's Jones lads - he's bigging us up for fuck's sake

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ry-for-england

Eddie Jones has revealed how Liverpool are having a key influence on his England team, explaining how a meeting with the Premier League champions played a role in Jonny May’s wonder try against Ireland.

Jones met with the Liverpool director of research, Ian Graham, to discuss transitional play – moving from attack to defence and vice versa – with a particular emphasis on what players do off the ball. Previously Jones has cited Pep Guardiola as having a significant impact on his team selection policy and more recently he has been reading Believe Us – a book about how Jürgen Klopp turned Liverpool into English champions – and has started collecting data on how his players perform when not in possession.

In the 18-7 win over Ireland, England had just 39% of the ball – making 246 tackles compared to their opponents’ 73 – but prevailed thanks to two tries from May. His second came after Ireland lost an attacking lineout before England swiftly shifted the ball from right to left to May, who finished off a memorable try from his own 22. Jones believes that was a perfect example of the “flick the switch” game scenarios he has introduced into training coming to fruition.

“I’m nominally the flick the switch coordinator but all the coaches do all the work. We’ve just created games that mimic those sorts of situations,” said Jones. “We had a great meeting with the Liverpool analyst, that’s one area they’re in. We’re starting to develop our own database that’s helping us in that area that can measure work off the ball. That’s so important, transitional parts, it’s a pretty exciting area for us and it’s pleasing to see that try where we shifted the ball quickly to the outside [for May’s second try].

“[Liverpool], and I think most football sides, are very advanced in being able to measure the movement of the players off the ball. If you look at any [rugby] stats that you get, they are only concerned with information on the ball. Say if Mako Vunipola makes 20 tackles and carries the ball three times, for 79 minutes and 45 seconds he is not with the ball. But his movement off the ball is crucial to what we do when we transition.

“What we want the players to do is what is obvious, but it’s their race to get in position which is really important. We’re starting to measure all that, we’ve got three great analysts who look at that area and give the players feedback. And then we want the players to use their skills.
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Old 23-11-20, 09:57 PM   #4611
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The Philistines on this site may not be interested in reading this given it's more about rugby than football so I've put it here rather than in 'Our style of play' where it probably might have sat better.

Oh and try and overlook the fact it's Jones lads - he's bigging us up for fuck's sake

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ry-for-england

Eddie Jones has revealed how Liverpool are having a key influence on his England team, explaining how a meeting with the Premier League champions played a role in Jonny May’s wonder try against Ireland.

Jones met with the Liverpool director of research, Ian Graham, to discuss transitional play – moving from attack to defence and vice versa – with a particular emphasis on what players do off the ball. Previously Jones has cited Pep Guardiola as having a significant impact on his team selection policy and more recently he has been reading Believe Us – a book about how Jürgen Klopp turned Liverpool into English champions – and has started collecting data on how his players perform when not in possession.

In the 18-7 win over Ireland, England had just 39% of the ball – making 246 tackles compared to their opponents’ 73 – but prevailed thanks to two tries from May. His second came after Ireland lost an attacking lineout before England swiftly shifted the ball from right to left to May, who finished off a memorable try from his own 22. Jones believes that was a perfect example of the “flick the switch” game scenarios he has introduced into training coming to fruition.

“I’m nominally the flick the switch coordinator but all the coaches do all the work. We’ve just created games that mimic those sorts of situations,” said Jones. “We had a great meeting with the Liverpool analyst, that’s one area they’re in. We’re starting to develop our own database that’s helping us in that area that can measure work off the ball. That’s so important, transitional parts, it’s a pretty exciting area for us and it’s pleasing to see that try where we shifted the ball quickly to the outside [for May’s second try].

“[Liverpool], and I think most football sides, are very advanced in being able to measure the movement of the players off the ball. If you look at any [rugby] stats that you get, they are only concerned with information on the ball. Say if Mako Vunipola makes 20 tackles and carries the ball three times, for 79 minutes and 45 seconds he is not with the ball. But his movement off the ball is crucial to what we do when we transition.

“What we want the players to do is what is obvious, but it’s their race to get in position which is really important. We’re starting to measure all that, we’ve got three great analysts who look at that area and give the players feedback. And then we want the players to use their skills.
I was going to post after the game that England reminded me of Liverpool but couldn’t be arsed writing it - now I’m saying it I look like a fraud

We used to be at are most dangerous we let opponents have the ball and then we’d lure them into pressing traps and pounce. England let opposition bring the ball into contact, smash them back, turn it over then kick intelligently or break - similar.

I now feel dirty that I’ve thought of something Eddie Jones has proved himself on
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Old 23-11-20, 10:04 PM   #4612
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I was going to post after the game that England reminded me of Liverpool but couldn’t be arsed writing it - now I’m saying it I look like a fraud

We used to be at are most dangerous we let opponents have the ball and then we’d lure them into pressing traps and pounce. England let opposition bring the ball into contact, smash them back, turn it over then kick intelligently or break - similar.

I now feel dirty that I’ve thought of something Eddie Jones has proved himself on

Steady

Actually I meant to mention when referencing Jones' book yesterday that he wrote that he was in awe of Gregor Townsend's mental capacity - something along those lines

But I'm not sure even that would turn Buzzo to the 'dark' side.
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Old 24-11-20, 01:36 AM   #4613
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On the subject of Liverpool and the incorporation of football methods in rugby, Jake White has been very vocal about it too (amongst everything else in the world). Cites the City game where we sprung a tactical surprise and spoke about revealing the teams in advance a way of killing coaches tactical influences. It's late and I can't be fucked looking for it, but I'll post some of the articles tomorrow if I remember. Most people hate him, but he's definitely quite sharp - no surprise him and Eddie were so successful together, then.

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I hadn't paid much attention to Wales these past couple of weeks, but I realized watching the highlights last night that they are getting us back by picking two highly promising English centres in the past couple of weeks - Nick Tompkins and Johnny Williams both of whom have played for England Under 20's.

Not sure what happened there
On the subject of English centres, you mentioned Huw Jones a a while ago. I've always considered him English. Read up on him, there's actually nothing Scottish about him, he was just born there. He's as Scottish as George Gregan and Corne Krige are Zambian.

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I was going to post after the game that England reminded me of Liverpool but couldn’t be arsed writing it - now I’m saying it I look like a fraud

We used to be at are most dangerous we let opponents have the ball and then we’d lure them into pressing traps and pounce. England let opposition bring the ball into contact, smash them back, turn it over then kick intelligently or break - similar.

I now feel dirty that I’ve thought of something Eddie Jones has proved himself on
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Old 24-11-20, 06:49 PM   #4614
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Christian Dominici has passed away. Only 48, no age at all
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Old 24-11-20, 10:12 PM   #4615
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Horrific.

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A witness saw him climb the roof of a disused building at Saint-Cloud park, near Paris, on Tuesday before falling, officials say.
I wonder if this is going to be another CTE case?
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Old 24-11-20, 11:34 PM   #4616
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Horrific.



I wonder if this is going to be another CTE case?
Whilst possible, I doubt it. Pretty sure he ahd an abusive childhood and suffered from depression prior to his career. Assuming suicide obviously.
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Old 25-11-20, 10:09 AM   #4617
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Whilst possible, I doubt it. Pretty sure he ahd an abusive childhood and suffered from depression prior to his career. Assuming suicide obviously.


Didn’t know that. Horrific for a different set of reasons.
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Old 28-11-20, 07:47 PM   #4618
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Pretty average performance by England but enough to secure the win.

Wales look a bit short on confidence at the moment and having a crowd in today would have made a big difference IMO.

It does depress me that whereas some team are better then the individual sum of the parts, more often than not England as a whole are less than the sum of the parts.

And I fail to understand why EJ picks Ford as a second 'distributor' then lets him kick away bags of possession - most of it very badly. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
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Old 30-11-20, 02:56 PM   #4619
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Pretty average performance by England but enough to secure the win.

Wales look a bit short on confidence at the moment and having a crowd in today would have made a big difference IMO.

It does depress me that whereas some team are better then the individual sum of the parts, more often than not England as a whole are less than the sum of the parts.

And I fail to understand why EJ picks Ford as a second 'distributor' then lets him kick away bags of possession - most of it very badly. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
This. Kicking possession away is so frustrating.
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Old 01-12-20, 08:42 AM   #4620
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Matera stripped of captaincy. Perhaps a bit harsh for something a while ago but fair enough and the right decision given the content posted. Racism doesn't pay and I'm glad he's been exposed.

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“The Argentina Rugby Union forcefully rejects the discriminatory and xenophobic comments published by members of the Pumas squad on social media,” a statement read, after offensive post dating from 2011-2013 came to light.

In the tweets, since deleted, Matera spoke of “running over blacks” with his car and disparaged Bolivian and Paraguayan domestic workers with racial stereotypes.

Petti referred to his domestic worker as a “primate” and spoke of “blacks” stealing mobile phones and wallets.
https://rugby365.com/countries/argen...tains-armband/
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Old 03-12-20, 11:25 AM   #4621
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Matera reinstated as captain and suspension has been lifted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55170028
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Old 03-12-20, 12:19 PM   #4622
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Saw that, doesn't do wonders for World Rugby trying to change the old boys club, privileged white male image to an inclusive game for everyone. Especially when (presumably) privileged, white males help the same kind out of a jam like this without repercussions.
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Old 04-12-20, 08:50 PM   #4623
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Saw that, doesn't do wonders for World Rugby trying to change the old boys club, privileged white male image to an inclusive game for everyone. Especially when (presumably) privileged, white males help the same kind out of a jam like this without repercussions.
Are World Rugby actually trying to change this?
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Old 04-12-20, 10:41 PM   #4624
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Are World Rugby actually trying to change this?
Well I don't know what their branding comms strategy is exactly or looked at their messaging in any depth, but it is something which has been spoken about. A quick look on their website suggests that they would like to change people's perceptions - particularly new players/supporters. If they actually give a fuck and what's being done on an administration level is a different story.

https://passport.worldrugby.org/?pag...rs&language=en

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/game-participation

https://www.world.rugby/organisation/about-us

Plenty of clichés. 'Solidarity', a game for all, women growth plan etc. Also littered with pictures/videos of developing minorities, women and people with disabilities (hope this is politically correct terminology).
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Old 05-12-20, 01:10 PM   #4625
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Sorry, I didn’t mean to hold you up as the one accountable for it!

I watched he Dan Leo doco on Amazon, about the exploitation of Pacific Island players, and it really was depressing stuff. Particularly how the World Rugby authorities both benefit from but also push responsibility for the players back onto the Pacific Island nations themselves.
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Old 05-12-20, 05:25 PM   #4626
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Not great from either side Buzzo but we won
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Old 05-12-20, 08:04 PM   #4627
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I missed the first half where ‘apparently’ we were quite good.

The yellow was incredibly harsh.

Second half was like every Ireland v Scotland match of the last 10 years. We couldn’t lay a glove on you.

We’ve brought some players into the fold this autumn, and Duhan looks like he is going to be awesome, 3 try’s already. But other than that more of the same from us.

Your forwards win games for you. Backs lack a bit of imagination.
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Old 05-12-20, 08:12 PM   #4628
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I missed the first half where ‘apparently’ we were quite good.

The yellow was incredibly harsh.

Second half was like every Ireland v Scotland match of the last 10 years. We couldn’t lay a glove on you.

We’ve brought some players into the fold this autumn, and Duhan looks like he is going to be awesome, 3 try’s already. But other than that more of the same from us.

Your forwards win games for you. Backs lack a bit of imagination.
When it’s an arm wrestle we win but so blunt in the backs - hard to watch one out runners. Not seeing much, if any progression under Farrell after a year
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Old 06-12-20, 03:36 PM   #4629
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Good start by the French. Matching England in the collisions, but playing with more structure and front foot ball.

England smashing the leather off it as per.
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Old 06-12-20, 04:27 PM   #4630
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This may be the most kicks I’ve ever seen in a Rugby match.
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Old 06-12-20, 04:34 PM   #4631
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This may be the most kicks I’ve ever seen in a Rugby match.
Clearly you don’t watch Ireland
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Old 06-12-20, 05:09 PM   #4632
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Farrell doesn’t want to win this.
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Old 06-12-20, 05:12 PM   #4633
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Hard earned win from England against a scratch French team.
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Old 06-12-20, 05:25 PM   #4634
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Clearly you don’t watch Ireland




It’s boring.
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Old 07-12-20, 11:09 PM   #4635
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Now lads.......

A few I’d argue against - maybe The Beast, North, Parisse and Ben Smith
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Old 08-12-20, 11:29 AM   #4636
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Plenty of gripes with that. Said I wasn't going to post, but Aaron Smith not being there is ridiculous. So I had to. Not even convinced Murray had a better decade than Perenara.
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Old 08-12-20, 12:10 PM   #4637
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Plenty of gripes with that. Said I wasn't going to post, but Aaron Smith not being there is ridiculous. So I had to. Not even convinced Murray had a better decade than Perenara.
Too many Saffers for me
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Old 08-12-20, 05:25 PM   #4638
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He wont be the last. Signs of dementia at 42 FFS

Quote:
Steve Thompson in group of ex-rugby union internationals to sue for brain damage


Rugby World Cup winner Steve Thompson and seven other former players claim the sport has left them with permanent brain damage - and are in the process of starting a claim against the game's authorities for negligence.

Every member of the group has recently been diagnosed with the early signs of dementia, and they say repeated blows to the head are to blame.

Thompson, 42, played in every England match when they won the 2003 World Cup, but says: "I can't remember any of those games. It's frightening."

It is understood a letter of claim, amounting to millions of pounds in damages, will be sent next week to the governing bodies for English and Welsh rugby and World Rugby - and a group class action could follow.

It is the first legal move of its kind in world rugby and, if successful, could force change to the way the game is played.

Lawyers for the group suggest another 80 former players between the ages of 25 and 55 are showing symptoms and have serious concerns.

World Rugby told BBC Sport: "While not commenting on speculation, World Rugby takes player safety very seriously and implements injury-prevention strategies based on the latest available knowledge, research and evidence."

In response to reports that legal action was planned, the Rugby Football Union said it was "declining to comment" because it has "not had any formal or informal approaches, with any legal documents being served".

The Welsh Rugby Union has also been approached for a response.

Former hooker Thompson played 195 times for Northampton Saints before moving to France to play for Brive. He won 73 England caps, and three for the British and Irish Lions, in a nine-year international career.

He first retired in 2007 because of a serious neck injury but was given the all-clear to return, before being forced to retire again in December 2011 with the same problem.

Thompson, former England team-mate Michael Lipman, ex-Wales international Alix Popham and five other retired players are the first group to agree to - and have - testing.

Thompson says his condition is so progressed he cannot remember anything that happened in those 2003 World Cup games.

"It's like I'm watching the game with England playing and I can see me there - but I wasn't there, because it's not me," he said.

"It's just bizarre. People talk about stories, and since the World Cup I've talked to the lads that were there, and you pick up stories, and then you can talk about it, but it's not me being there, it's not me doing it, because it's just gone."

Thompson is convinced constant head knocks during matches and training are to blame.

"When we first started going full-time in the mid-1990s, training sessions could quickly turn into full contact," he said.

"There was one session when the scrummaging hadn't gone quite right and they made us do a hundred live scrums. When it comes to it, we were like a bit of meat, really.

"The whole point of us doing this is to look after the young players coming through. I don't want rugby to stop. It's been able to give us so much, but we just want to make it safer. It can finish so quickly, and suddenly you've got your whole life in front of you."

Thompson, who has four children, is frank about his fears for the future and open about some dark thoughts.

"When you are there alone, the number of times you just think to yourself it's probably easier if you go, if I'm not here," he said.

"You start to think, it's not right to put them through that. That's the difficult side to it."

I don't want to be a burden on my family - Popham
What is CTE & how can it be diagnosed?
All eight players to have come forward so far have been diagnosed by neurologists at King's College, London, with early onset dementia and probable Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE).

CTE is the disease discovered by Dr Bennet Omalu in American football player Mike Webster, and the subject of the film Concussion starring Will Smith. In 2011, a group of former American football players started a class action against the NFL and won a settlement worth about $1bn (£700m).

CTE can develop when the brain is subjected to numerous small blows or rapid movements - sometimes known as sub-concussions - and is associated with symptoms such as memory loss, depression and progressive dementia.

The disease can only be diagnosed in a brain after death, but some experts believe if history of exposure is evaluated, it is reasonable to conclude that the risk increases. The embryonic nature of the science around the issue could play a key part in the success or failure of the overall case.

It has been found in the brains of dozens of former NFL players, as well as a handful of deceased footballers, including former West Bromwich Albion and England player Jeff Astle. A re-examination of his brain in 2014 found he had died from CTE.

Sub-concussions cannot be detected on the pitch or in any post-match examination.

Dr Ann McKee, from Boston University, is the leading neurologist in CTE and was instrumental in bringing about change in the NFL.

She and others have faced scepticism within sport, from those who believe more research is needed before further changes are introduced.

"There's clearly a problem," she told the BBC.

"We don't know the magnitude of the problem, but as long as we insist that there is no problem, we'll never get to the bottom of it.

"We're just denying it and prolonging it and making sure that as many rugby players as possible get CTE."

So how could the claim be proved?
If the case progresses to court, the group must prove the governing bodies have been guilty of negligence.

Richard Boardman, from law firm Rylands, is leading the action.

"We are now in a position where we believe the governing bodies across the rugby world are liable for failing to adequately protect their players on this particular issue," he said.

"Depending on how many people come forward, the case could be worth tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions.

"Right now we're representing over 100 former players but we expect many more to get in contact."

Dr Willie Stewart, who with his team at Glasgow University has been leading research around dementia in football, is confident there is an issue in rugby union.

"There is no question if you look at the data across all the sports in all the regions whether they be football, rugby, American football, I've looked at brains from people from all these different sports.

"The difficulty we have is gathering enough experience from former rugby players to be able to say with certainty, but I think you would be foolish to ignore it. "

The issue of concussion in sport has been debated extensively over the past few years. The links between heading a football and degenerative brain disease have even forced rule changes at youth level.

In England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, children aged 11 and under are no longer allowed to head the ball in training. There are also limits to heading frequency at higher age group levels.

At senior level, former professionals have called for more research and better player welfare after the recent death of England World Cup winner Nobby Stiles, and following the news that Stiles' 1966 team-mate and Manchester United legend Sir Bobby Charlton is suffering from the disease.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237
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Old 08-12-20, 09:15 PM   #4639
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https://twitter.com/worldrugby/statu...59133741641731

Now lads.......

A few I’d argue against - maybe The Beast, North, Parisse and Ben Smith

Agreed.

How did they arrive at that lot?
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Old 08-12-20, 09:19 PM   #4640
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He wont be the last. Signs of dementia at 42 FFS



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

Steve Thompson retired once due to injury, got a pretty substantial payout (£0.5m?) then went back to it a year or two later. Possibly a misjudgement on his part . . .
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