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22-01-21, 12:16 PM
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#481 |
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Shankly
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,116
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It's the finishing that's killing us, the stats show it. 80+ shots in five games and just one goal. It's the most bizarre thing ever. We had 8 shots against Palace and scored 7.
Even teams down the bottom of the league are scoring every 15-20 shots... It's such a weird thing. We can't buy a goal. Having said all that, I can't remember too many of those 80 efforts that as it happened I thought 'oh that's in...' or '...great save, keeper' - the ones that stick in my head are ones that end in Row Z... or even into orbit like Div's first effort last night... or they've been straight at the keeper, get blocked, or trundle towards the keeper. Normally, we'd have a deflected effort or two creep in... but nothing. Nada. Zero. Yes, we've had problems with fluency and pace of play, changing positions to suit injuries, etc... but c'mon.... 80+ shots on target... even if we'd scored a handful - an average team's shot:goal conversion rate - we'd be nudging top spot in the league for sure. It's mental. |
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22-01-21, 04:25 PM
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#482 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
 absolutely this. The movement is non existent in the front line these days which is an incredible statement to make considering the 3 players we are talking about. We have got lazy, which also is an incredible statement to make considering we have been the hardest working team in the league for years. Thiago has been playing too deep to affect the game, having Fab in the midfield doing the dirty work would allow Thiago to drift further forward and inflience the game a bit more, picking those passes and pushing back opposition defences. I really thought last night was a perfect game to have Matip/Philips. I think Klopp made a mistake not taking the chance with that, Burnleys movement is awful and it was mostly high balls would were going to have to deal with. At least we would have got the chance to let Thiago off the leash a bit with Fab mopping up. Instead we had that midfield of Thiago/Gini/Shaq. Gini is way way off form, Shaq is nowhere near fully fit and Thiago is nowhere near fully fit. He looked knackered and sloppy after 50 or 60 mins.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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22-01-21, 04:27 PM
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#483 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
most of the shots on goal are pathetic and easily saved by keepers or completely mishit and into the stands. I can't believe it to be honest, I use Trent as a good example of someone who is considered one of the best strikers of a ball in the game and his crossing is like that of a 12 year old. Bobby looks like a player who has never played as a striker and all composure goes out the window when he gets a shot at goal.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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23-01-21, 04:57 AM
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#484 |
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Run the Jewels
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 34,805
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He's shit, sell.
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Great Britain is really fucked. |
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24-01-21, 07:56 PM
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#485 |
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Dalglish
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,318
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He must have the worst win ratio in LFC history
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In the beginning, Fowler created the Heaven and the Earth. |
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24-01-21, 07:58 PM
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#486 |
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Pantomime Villain
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,297
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He looks shit. He isn't obviously. But his world class ability has soon come crashing down to fit in with the rest of the beige. He needs Hendo in there.
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Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won’t expect it back. Oscar Wilde |
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24-01-21, 07:59 PM
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#487 |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Was blowing out of his hole in second half. Doing all the donkey work and hasn't been able to influence the game at all. He was terrible today. Doesn't help that Gini has been stinking the place out again.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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24-01-21, 08:22 PM
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#488 | |
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Shankly
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,116
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Quote:
It’s a different Thiago with Fab and Hendo... we didn’t buy him to be either of them. He’s having to be one or the other and it’s not his strength. He is a creative playmaker and he isn’t being asked to do that role at the moment. Wasted talent. |
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24-01-21, 08:25 PM
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#489 | |
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Dalglish
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,167
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Quote:
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Akloppalypse Now ! |
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24-01-21, 08:41 PM
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#490 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
 looked like he was going to pass out. Poor chap is fucked
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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24-01-21, 08:43 PM
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#491 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
yup absolutely, he is a casualty of us not investing in the defence. World class talent being used as workhorse. If we want him to get injured, we are certainly going the right way about it.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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24-01-21, 08:45 PM
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#492 |
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Shankly
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,338
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n/a
Last edited by Maxiedge; 24-01-21 at 08:46 PM. Reason: wrong fred |
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03-02-21, 11:30 PM
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#493 |
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Dalglish
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,441
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i was elated when he signed, but due to injuries he has been chucked in & it isn't working; square peg round hole ??
The team seem to be playing for him rather than him playing for the team. Would seriously leave him out against low block sides( fodder like the last three home games) & let him learn how the prem work. |
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03-02-21, 11:31 PM
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#494 |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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We can't judge him until specific players come back in but yeah he has been disappointing and is slowing us down in possession. Against teams that sit so deep he hasn't done us any favours.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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03-02-21, 11:34 PM
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#495 |
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Donald Buzzworth
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,698
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Equally he must be thinking.
‘What the fuck...’ This will be the first season in his career he hasn’t won the League
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03-02-21, 11:34 PM
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#496 |
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Shankly
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,174
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Ffs lads - he is one of the best midfielders in the world. He was nearly crippled just after he caught Covid and has played 4 games in 10 days with no break and utter garbage ahead of him. He is not the problem - remember the games vs Ev and Chelsea to think of what be brings
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03-02-21, 11:35 PM
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#497 | |
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Shankly
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,174
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Quote:
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03-02-21, 11:38 PM
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#498 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
To be fair to him too the movement up top is a disgrace.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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03-02-21, 11:47 PM
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#499 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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03-02-21, 11:57 PM
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#500 |
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Paisley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,230
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Problem for me with the midfield is it's missing Henderson, put him back in midfield and he will sort Thiago out get him playing at the right tempo.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved. |
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04-02-21, 12:01 AM
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#501 | |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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Quote:
yup as I said can't judge him yet as the setup isn't there but I would be lying if I said I haven't been slightly disappointed with his performances.
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When in doubt, mumble. |
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04-02-21, 01:53 AM
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#502 | |
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Daddy day care
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 22,381
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Quote:
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Champions of Europe and the World. removing all the weak links makes us stronger too many gutless players, no beef or desire. pussies everywhere... sack them all, but not VVD or Alisson |
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04-02-21, 09:39 AM
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#503 |
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Fagan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
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I am also disappointed in Thiago. I really was expecting more in terms of clever passes to unlock tight defenses. Or quick turns and dribbles to break solid lines. I am hoping he will get up to speed because at the moment you have to say the evidence is beginning to mount that he is one of the reasons why we are suddenly struggling. I do agree that Henderson back in the middle will help him. Also the illness and longish time out with injury and being thrown in at a time when the whole team is struggling for form has been a big ask. I think patience will be required from us all.
Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk |
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04-02-21, 09:43 AM
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#504 |
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Shankly
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,338
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Played some nice balls last night only for the move to breakdown with poor touch/ control from a forward. The lack of quality was systemic last night.
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04-02-21, 09:47 AM
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#505 |
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Big Girl's Blouse
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,360
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Yeah, not sure he's the problem. He's come in to the side while it's stuttering. You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.
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04-02-21, 10:14 AM
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#506 | |
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Benitez
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 557
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Quote:
Sent from my Mi 10 using Tapatalk |
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04-02-21, 10:25 AM
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#507 | |
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Shankly
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,633
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Quote:
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04-02-21, 12:32 PM
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#508 |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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The problem for Thiago is he is having to come into a disjointed midfield and having to take on roles that, whilst he can do them, are not what we bought them for.
Since he joined he is doing a lot of the dirty work and his stats back that up. He is a player that will find other players if they are making runs and if there is good movement around him. Problem we have right now is that Thiago is having to take on a lot of what Fabinho and also Henderson would so in the middle, plus the movement up front ahead of him has been middling at best since he came back, and the movement around him in the middle is not great either in terms of players making runs from deep for him to feed the ball to. He is one of the best in the word in his role, but even the best cannot make incisive play making passes when there is nobody ahead of them making runs for the ball. And what I did notice a lot last night was that when he did make passes to players ahead of him, the receiving players either miscontrolled the ball or just hung onto it for too long after getting it. He is doing well so far in what he is doing and his underlying stats back up what the eye can see as well. Put Fabinho behind him in the Kimmich role and have Henderson providing box to box alongside Thiago and sudenly you get to see Thiago showing why he is one of the best, if not the best in the world, in that pivot role
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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04-02-21, 01:20 PM
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#509 |
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Paisley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,230
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The one hope that I am clinging to is that we get at least one of Henderson or Fabinho back into midfield and things improve significantly. For me Henderson is the key, maybe Fabinho is the better DM but Henderson is capable and willing to do the dirty work in the middle to allow Thiago and the more skillful players influence the game.
Obviously that require one or more of the new CBs to settle in and Fab get back to fitness.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved. |
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04-02-21, 01:31 PM
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#510 |
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Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 37,323
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The movement up top has been dire all season. Vs Spurs Bobby's movement was fantastic showing for the ball in deep and wide positions and his first touch was fantastic. That's pretty much the only game I can think of that he had a stand out game in 2020. The quality of his movement and touch has gone off a cliff, Salah is often tightly marked but even his movement has been poor but imo when Mane's movement is static then you know something is wrong. That's pretty much the way it has been most of the season and why Jota was such a breath of fresh air. I completely get that when Thiago gets the ball there is not much to play to & it doesn't help playing with Milner who could hardly move & Gini apart from the recent games in London is playing at about 50%.
In saying all that, Thiago has been a bit slow on the ball and vs "low block" sides he needs to be quicker in moving it, he's just hanging on it for a second longer than he needs to. He's a worldie and no doubts we will see the best of him if we ever get our midfield back but he has struggled a bit. We need to get Hendo back into the midfield asap, he's the key alright.
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When in doubt, mumble. Last edited by danperkins; 04-02-21 at 01:34 PM. |
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04-02-21, 01:52 PM
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#511 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
And if there is no movement around him and nobody showing for the ball, how does he move it quickly amd more importantly effectively? Every time last night he released it quickly to the feet of one of our guys, then they went and miscontrolled it or lost it almost straight away. Thiago for most of his career has been a midfielder who style of play made him almost press proof. We seem to have found a way to turn that player into being a workhorse. Just to look at Thiago a little by the numbers from last night. He had 102 touches of the ball 90 passes - 81 successful passes - 90% PS 75% accuracy with long balls. 7 tackles attempted - Six successful tackles 7 duels won (50/50s) 9 recoveries of the ball I interception Dispossessed 0 times Milner 92 touches of the ball 79 passes - 69 successful passes - 87% PS 0% accuracy with long balls (3 attempted) 1 successful tackle in 90 minutes 5 duels won 7 recoveries of the ball 0 interceptions Dispossessed 1 time Wijnaldum 36 touches of the ball 28 passes - 25 successful passes - 89% PS 0% accuracy with long balls 0 successful tackles 2 duels won (8 lost) 3 recoveries of the ball 0 interceptions Dispossessed 3 times So our skillful midfielder is the one putting in the workhorse shift and was being pretty damn good at being our defensive mainstay on the night, and our two midfielders that we expect the higher workrate and better defensive work from lack far behind him. We did have players slowing the midfield down badly last night and not doing much going back or forward, butThiago was not one of them.
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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04-02-21, 01:58 PM
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#512 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,527
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Quote:
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It's Kloppering time! |
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04-02-21, 02:02 PM
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#513 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
Oh for me Thiago was the only midfielder passing the eye test last night, but I decided I would dig into the figures for what I thought he did well last night, and then I just carried on and looked at Milner and Wijnaldum. The figures pretty matched to what the eyes saw.
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Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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04-02-21, 02:19 PM
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#514 |
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Big Girl's Blouse
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,360
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I thought Gini looked disinterested, those stats seem to confirm he wasn't involved enough
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04-02-21, 02:30 PM
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#515 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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04-02-21, 02:41 PM
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#516 |
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Dalglish
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,498
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i think with Thiago everybody is looking to pass to him, there have been loads of situations when somebody has been on the ball and taken the pass to Thiago rather than a better option. Trent does it all the time
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04-02-21, 02:53 PM
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#517 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
Noticed a bit of that as well and wondered if it was a sign of some players not being as confident as they used to be. Looked at times that the passing player just looked to sent it at Thiago regardless and that sometimes a player that looked to be in a good position to receive the ball in a more advanced position did not really show for the ball or move quickly to make a bit of space to receive the ball and the passer just sent it at Thiago instead. Now that works fine when we have a few better players in the team or when the team we are playing against comes at us more as then Thiago will see the gaps behind that team and get the ball to one of our players as there would be more natural space to counter the receiving player miscontrolling a bit. But against the low block and sitting deep teams the receiving players really need to be doing their bit to make a run or a turn to make a half yard of space in case they do not control the ball as it comes to them. Thiago is still finding players with the ball against the low block teams but all he has to aim out are our forward players standing right beside a defender so he does his bit and finds the player but the ball is then somewhere it can be defended. When that happens we then seem to default into trying to shuttle the ball wide (and slowing the pace greatly as we do so) and crossing it in high against tall backlines that are sitting deep.
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Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through |
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04-02-21, 03:03 PM
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#518 |
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Benitez
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 531
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When everyone is fit (assuming that ever happens) I would like too see Fab as our holding midfielder. The question then is how/can Hendo and Thiago will work together. They're a bit one-paced and similar for me...I think we miss Naby breaking the lines and causing chaos. When there is no movement up front or too many poor touches, the Hendo/Thiago through-ball style is less effective.
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04-02-21, 03:06 PM
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#519 | |
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Benitez
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 571
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Quote:
And all those aimless crosses fron Trent were infuriating again. He must have been looking for that man mountain Shaq at the back post |
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04-02-21, 03:10 PM
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#520 | |
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Paisley
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,867
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Quote:
I think Henderson would be the somewhat more advanced of the two in that situation and be playing in sort of a similar role to what Goretzka did at Bayern when he was in the centre with Thiago with Kimmich as the CDM. When Fabinho is in the centre for us, Henderson does tend to be more of a box to box player and Thiago excels as in the pivot between a CDM and a box to box midfielder. Would not be much of a stretch to see Henderson do that as it is not that different to what he was doing a lot of the time in the middle last season. With Thiago sitting in the pivot slot it would actually free up Henderson a lot more when we had the ball and allow him to advance a lot more. Thiago would still carry the ball himself into advanced positions, like he did at Bayern for years, but Henderson could well start become a more regular getter of goals and/or assists in that set up. Was actually thinking a few weeks ago who would I love to see replace Henderson if for some reason we had to get a player to play instead of him and the two names I kept going back to were Goretzka and Valverde. Reason I went to those two names (and not saying they would be players that their clubs would just sell to us) was I wanted a player that could bring a very high level of all round play and that can play in a manner that meshes with how we play when we are at our best. Think it says a lot for how much Henderson has come on in the past number of years that those are the sort of players I think would be needed if we were to replace him with a "ready made" player. Go back maybe six or seven years ago and I never saw Henderson being the sort of player that you would need to be looking at top level players in order to replace him.
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Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through Last edited by Jaco_Pastorious; 04-02-21 at 03:16 PM. |
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