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Old 13-02-21, 04:01 PM   #561
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But you wanted a centre back and Klopp brought you two. So take it.
What are you on about? I wanted a CB in the summer as did so many or at the start of the Jan window when we knew we were up shits creek.... not the last day. You've been arguing against this for months and the facts are there that we gambled in two windows and it have massively backfired. I said months ago the owners not spending short term could impact massively long term even if covid has fucked things. Short term pain for long term gain, now we are in real trouble and we may very feel feel the knock on effects off not qualifying for the champs league next season.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:02 PM   #562
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Have to say I'm pretty shocked at how bad he's been. I thought Barnes dived by Thiago always seems to leave a foot in. Painfully slow in possession and doing fuck all with it. Gobsmacked at how poor he has been to be honest.

Well if he is shit, then where does that put TAA, Robertson,Firmino, Mane, Wijnaldum, Milner, Jones and a few others? You know guys who have all been in the team for years or through the system of the club for years.

Trent has been very poor for a good chunk of this season. Roberston has been so so at best. Milner and Wijnaldum look like they never played for the club before more often than not, and Jones has looked between very average to totally anonymous.

If a new player to the club and country is to be held to the standard that gets him called shit, then none of the rest can be judged to any lesser standard or have excuses made for them.

TAA great last season? Even more reason to not be shit this season.
Jones a young lad breaking into the team? He is well used to the city and club set up so no exuces then.

Am being a bit facetious with some of the comments, but the point stands as such, how can we be expecting a new player to the club like Thiago to suddenly look great when playing out of position after having missed a chunk of the pre season with covid and then a chunk of the season with a bad injury when all around him are regulars, that we have all lauded in the past, who are all playing well below par more often than not?

Is easy to say that Thiago needs to show more, but might be more accurate to say that our stalwarts need to start showing again why we all thought they were top class players and mentality monsters.


So far this season the only nailed on starters or regular starters from last season that can hold their heads up and say they are doing their jobs this season are Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, and for the most part Alisson.

If it were as simple a thing as Thiago being shit, we should be able to start with more of last season's guys in the centre and expect improvement. Thing in none of those guys are coming close to what we need at present and we have Fabinho and Henderson doing well but totally out of position.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:06 PM   #563
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Well if he is shit, then where does that put TAA, Robertson,Firmino, Mane, Wijnaldum, Milner, Jones and a few others? You know guys who have all been in the team for years or through the system of the club for years.

Trent has been very poor for a good chunk of this season. Roberston has been so so at best. Milner and Wijnaldum look like they never played for the club before more often than not, and Jones has looked between very average to totally anonymous.

If a new player to the club and country is to be held to the standard that gets him called shit, then none of the rest can be judged to any lesser standard or have excuses made for them.

TAA great last season? Even more reason to not be shit this season.
Jones a young lad breaking into the team? He is well used to the city and club set up so no exuces then.

Am being a bit facetious with some of the comments, but the point stands as such, how can we be expecting a new player to the club like Thiago to suddenly look great when playing out of position after having missed a chunk of the pre season with covid and then a chunk of the season with a bad injury when all around him are regulars, that we have all lauded in the past, who are all playing well below par more often than not?

Is easy to say that Thiago needs to show more, but might be more accurate to say that our stalwarts need to start showing again why we all thought they were top class players and mentality monsters.


So far this season the only nailed on starters or regular starters from last season that can hold their heads up and say they are doing their jobs this season are Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, and for the most part Alisson.

If it were as simple a thing as Thiago being shit, we should be able to start with more of last season's guys in the centre and expect improvement. Thing in none of those guys are coming close to what we need at present and we have Fabinho and Henderson doing well but totally out of position.
Well it is the Thiago thread mate

But yeah I agree several others lads have been way below par for quite some time. Gini and Robbo only the last few months whereas Bobby and Trent it has been much much longer.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:10 PM   #564
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Obviously he's not shit. When you bring in a big name player, everyone expects them to make a difference, to improve the team, to show what they can do, even if others aren't doing their bit. Some hit the ground running, like Fernandes, some flop totally, like Bale, but Thiago has had a completely neutral effect on us at best. And that's disappointing.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:12 PM   #565
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Well it is the Thiago thread mate

But yeah I agree several others lads have been way below par for quite some time. Gini and Robbo only the last few months whereas Bobby and Trent it has been much much longer.

So what you are saying is all those players have been playing badly for months then and Thiago got to come into the team and play out of position alongsie those regular as they continued to play badly.

Do not think it is too hard to see why he is not looking as amazing as he did at Bayern when he is surrounded by players not performing from when he came into our team.

No settled CBs behind him, midfielders playing poorly around him, and our usual width from fullback both out of form. Throw in Mane and Bobby being well below par as well and not sure how Thiago is meant to be good enough to pull all of them up a few notches.

The way we are playing at present you could throw Mbappe into our team and we would make him look bad, assuming he did not get injured somehow.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:14 PM   #566
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Because that's what special players can do, sometimes.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:15 PM   #567
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Obviously he's not shit. When you bring in a big name player, everyone expects them to make a difference, to improve the team, to show what they can do, even if others aren't doing their bit. Some hit the ground running, like Fernandes, some flop totally, like Bale, but Thiago has had a completely neutral effect on us at best. And that's disappointing.

Would argue that Fernandes from day one have enough players doing the work horse side of the game to a competent enough level more often than not to let him focus on his own game. Along with the not so insignificant advantage of having a pretty settled team around him that was not going through a collective massive drop in form.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:17 PM   #568
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Because that's what special players can do, sometimes.

Special players? You mean like Mane, TAA, Firmino, Robertson and so on? Seems to me that we have a team full of special players who are anything but on the pitch right now.

Or maybe it is down to the new guy coming back from injury and playing out of position to make them all play less crap
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Old 13-02-21, 04:18 PM   #569
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So what you are saying is all those players have been playing badly for months then and Thiago got to come into the team and play out of position alongsie those regular as they continued to play badly.

Do not think it is too hard to see why he is not looking as amazing as he did at Bayern when he is surrounded by players not performing from when he came into our team.

No settled CBs behind him, midfielders playing poorly around him, and our usual width from fullback both out of form. Throw in Mane and Bobby being well below par as well and not sure how Thiago is meant to be good enough to pull all of them up a few notches.

The way we are playing at present you could throw Mbappe into our team and we would make him look bad, assuming he did not get injured somehow.
What I am saying is a world class player is playing shit, not that he is shit. I have said similar about Bobby & Trent in their respective threads as it is the truth.

Regardless of how poorly we are playing, he isn't even doing the basics. Why am I so disappointed? Because is by far the best technical footballer in that squad and one of the best in the world, so not only do I expect better from him, I expect him to complete the basics of the game. He has not had the impact any of us thought he would regardless of the situation.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:20 PM   #570
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They were consistently average, and he has improved them significantly. If Thiago isn't that player to improve our midfield then that's fine, but it's still disappointing.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:23 PM   #571
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What are you on about? I wanted a CB in the summer as did so many or at the start of the Jan window when we knew we were up shits creek.... not the last day. You've been arguing against this for months and the facts are there that we gambled in two windows and it have massively backfired. I said months ago the owners not spending short term could impact massively long term even if covid has fucked things. Short term pain for long term gain, now we are in real trouble and we may very feel feel the knock on effects off not qualifying for the champs league next season.
Sorry, the centre back quote was from the Kabak thread, no clue why I posted it here.

Thiago is a good player but in a team not winning at the moment. So I'd wait until next year to judge him.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:26 PM   #572
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Proven class player, been pretty shit. Fair to say?
He's obviously world class but I had no idea he was so stupid and rash in the tackle. That has taken me aback. Otherwise he's arrived, got covid, then got a serious injury, and when he came back into the side he came into a decimated and dysfunctional team. He's been disappointing, but he's not the problem.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:31 PM   #573
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He's obviously world class but I had no idea he was so stupid and rash in the tackle. That has taken me aback. Otherwise he's arrived, got covid, then got a serious injury, and when he came back into the side he came into a decimated and dysfunctional team. He's been disappointing, but he's not the problem.
I agree. Nobody is judging him, we know he is a worldie and circumstances have been far from ideal but equally we are allowed to be disappointed with him considering how accomplished a tackler and in possession we know he is. He literally is one of the best midfielders in world football so he is held to higher standards than your average baller.

The rash tackling is an issue and maybe that has got to do with the pace of the league or him being off the pace physically. Whatever it is, it's not good viewing and is costing us but absolutely we have far great issues than Thiago that's for sure.
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Old 13-02-21, 04:41 PM   #574
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He's obviously world class but I had no idea he was so stupid and rash in the tackle. That has taken me aback. Otherwise he's arrived, got covid, then got a serious injury, and when he came back into the side he came into a decimated and dysfunctional team. He's been disappointing, but he's not the problem.
And he didnít train all week - Milner injury and in he goes rusty as fuck. Iíll judge him when he is fit and playing with a proper side around him
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Old 13-02-21, 04:44 PM   #575
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i am happy to drive him back to Munich, ask for a refund & take the 10day quarantine & £1700 bill on my return.

Its been a long time since i was so disappointed in a liverpool player, considering his reputation before he arrived.

Slow, ponderous, rash tackles, poor distribution; simply does not suit us at all
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Old 13-02-21, 05:05 PM   #576
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And he didnít train all week - Milner injury and in he goes rusty as fuck. Iíll judge him when he is fit and playing with a proper side around him


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Old 13-02-21, 05:13 PM   #577
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And he didnít train all week - Milner injury and in he goes rusty as fuck. Iíll judge him when he is fit and playing with a proper side around him
That's a fair point
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Old 14-02-21, 08:02 AM   #578
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He's fucking shit. But at least he's on the pitch and fucking shit.
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Old 14-02-21, 08:27 AM   #579
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Premature song syndrome
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Old 14-02-21, 11:14 AM   #580
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He hasn't had the crowd cheer his name yet. Feel sorry for all new arrival at clubs.
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Old 14-02-21, 02:18 PM   #581
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Thiago has been poor out of possession and also when in possession and put under pressure. So far. I think he'll come good but not this season. My heart sank when he came on and I kept willing him under my breath (1) not to jump in and (2) to be more progressive. Currently we have only five fit midfielders not playing in defence (Gini, Curtis, Thiago, Shaq and the Ox) and I'd want only two of them (Gini and Curtis) in my starting line up right now.
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Old 14-02-21, 02:28 PM   #582
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Heís not been shit, just below what we were all expecting from him.
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Old 14-02-21, 03:22 PM   #583
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He could do with a few assists or pre assists and less wreck less tackling.
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Old 14-02-21, 04:02 PM   #584
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He could do with a few assists or pre assists and less wreck less tackling.

Not sure where the rash tackling has come from with him tbh. Maybe his timing is a bit off or something but is was never as obvious as now.


He is not a player I would be expecting to rack up good goal or assist numbers either. He will be more like an Alonso figure for us. A string puller when he has movement around him that sets others up for the assist or pre assist like Alonso used to.

But if he keeps playing as a DM and in a spoiling role, then we are not going to see that, especially when passes seem to be bouncing off of our attacking players and we have little to no movement in the centre.

Did think Leicester were very clever in how they dealt with him yesterday. Anytime a long pass went towards Thiago, Ndidi plus which other Leicester CM was closest made a beeline for Thiago over and over. They kept putting two close to him, Ndidi almost always being one of the two and were content to leave their third CM as cover against our two other CMs.

I don't always associate Brendan with getting midfield tactics that spot on, but yesterday he pulled of a few nice switches. That changing to and from a diamond in the centre was a recurring thing with them as well, especially in the second half. They seemed to figure that we were not a threat out wide and would go to a diamond in the middle, overloading the centre when they did so.

Every time they did the overload thing it seemed to be giving them one to two extra runners from deep and we seemed to be tracking the ball and not the men when that happened.
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Old 15-02-21, 09:49 AM   #585
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He's been a shit Paul Scholes so far. He's a walking yellow card. Absolutely lunging into daft tackles all game long. Surely he's been told to curb it and stay on his feet a bit more?

His unreal cameo against Chelsea seems like a dream now. I know they were down to 10 men but he glided around majestically. Now he always looks a couple of yards short of the pace of the game.

I think he perfectly sums up the way our season has gone. I do feel sympathy for him, we're currently nothing like the team he thought he as joining!
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Old 15-02-21, 10:11 AM   #586
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The grief he gets on here is ludicrous. A new player this season, serious injury against Everton, Covid and coming into a team with players around him who are making him put the foot in far more than he's used to in an attempt to make up for their mistakes.

Yes, he's not influenced games in the way we'd hoped. But we expected the team to be playing with some consistency and structure. It hasn't due to the sheer volume of injuries. With a solid back four, he's not lunging in as much to make desperate tackles. With a Hendo and Fab next to him, he's got a little more space and time to find those Bayern defence-splitting passes. If he's able to go forward instead of sitting deep and breaking up play, he's making more assists and potential weighing in with a couple himself.

He's a brilliant player. He's just currently in a shit team and being played out of position, doing a role he's not great at because purely because he's not injured.

There are so many ahead of him as being more fundamental to our problems - Ox, Keita, Jones, Shaq, Gini... midfielders all, none of who have shone, mostly sicknotes and if not sick, desperately out of form.

I've said it before and it still - for me - is the underlying reason why we're at the level we're at this season. VVD, Gomez, Matip and no fourth CB has killed us. Without a solid back line, we're putting players in unnatural positions, not giving them rest and if they are given a rest, their replacement is played out of position and has a shocker or gets injured themselves. It's a car crash of a season, and that's without the appalling VAR and refereeing decisions.

Individual mistakes don't happen in highly functioning teams, because everyone's 'on it' all the time. When the wheels come off, they come off big time and anxiety ripples across the whole squad. Individual errors are many and often. The only way to break the cycle is to get players back from injury and to start with the basics and build back confidence from doing the simple things right and often.

We're guilty of trying to turn things around quickly and it's only making things worse. We need to stop pretending that we'll get out of this 'blip' at some point... we need to start believing in ourselves again and working as a team to put the repair the foundations not applying the sticking plaster.
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Old 15-02-21, 10:31 AM   #587
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For me, it's all down to adaptation. He's clearly not pants, we know this. But I just get the feeling the rash tacking is all down to the leagues reputation, tough league etc etc. He's trying too hard, essentially.
As the other facets in his game, I think he was supposed to bring something different to the midfield, given that it's by and large ignored in our standard play when attacking. But because of the slew of injuries this season, he's had to slot in where required. You can't be expected to break the low block if you're the one sitting deep.
He fared pretty well against Chelsea earlier in the season and was doing the same against Everton until that prick Richarlison put a reducer on him for no good reason.

Once he's had a full pre-season with the squad and we get time to work on our shape again, I think he'll be the player we hoped we were going to get. No problem.
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Old 15-02-21, 11:41 AM   #588
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For me it comes down to him having to play a role he was not bought for, and we won't see the best of him until Fab and/or Hendo are back alongside him doing the donkey work, freeing Thiago up to do as he does best.

Hopefully with Kabak playing alongside Fab (or maybe Davies, but I think he was bought as cover, not to play alongside Kabak), we can move Hendo back into the DM role and then we might see more of what was expected from Thiago.
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Old 15-02-21, 11:47 AM   #589
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I agree with alot from the last 2 or3 posts I think that alot of the grief he is getting is over the top, he is a quality player, but as we have seen it the past it typically takes at least a good few months for most new players to settle into the league. This would be easier if he were coming into a settled side with established relationships where he had a well defined role that he just needed to learn. But with the injuries at the moment that isn't the case. Yes he has made some silly challenges but he isn't the only one a number of other players have been doing it too. He clearly still needs time to settle preferably in something resembling our first choice midfield.
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Old 15-02-21, 11:55 AM   #590
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I'll have zero complaints if he gets a Yellow or Red in his next game.

I hope he does a proper number on Richarlson
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Old 15-02-21, 05:43 PM   #591
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With Jota back in the side, forwards that actually make runs and a back 4 with proper CB's then we'll see if Thiago is going to work out here or if he's another Keita (good player in a foreign league but whose playing style and mentality is unsuited to the PL).
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Old 16-02-21, 10:24 PM   #592
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Old 16-02-21, 10:55 PM   #593
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Worked hard tonight but didn't really dictate any of the play though.
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Old 16-02-21, 11:00 PM   #594
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Heís not a no 10 so wonít really dictate a game. He helps us in our passing though. Got tired a bit and was substituted which is fine. Weíll need him over the week end.
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Old 16-02-21, 11:11 PM   #595
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Heís not a no 10 so wonít really dictate a game. He helps us in our passing though. Got tired a bit and was substituted which is fine. Weíll need him over the week end.
Did well for 60 and looked shot after that - building up his fitness
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Old 16-02-21, 11:19 PM   #596
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Did well for 60 and looked shot after that - building up his fitness
better tonight, but you are right he needs to up his levels fitness wise
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Old 17-02-21, 08:59 AM   #597
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Thiago Alcantara

You can already see he has improved us in our passing and control of the game I think it is the main reason he has been brought here. He helps us tremendously in keeping the ball. Heís not going to make the final decisive pass or play a killer ball that much as his role is to keep possession and be good in transition when we lose the ball. Heís not been perfect yet but heís playing in a team which has been struggling to win games consistently since the turn of the year.

For the times Iíve seen him play for Bayern he played in a deeper role, which he struggled with a bit here, which is why heís been moved to a no 8 type of role. But his ability to play different positions in midfield is probably valuable.
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Old 17-02-21, 11:08 AM   #598
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Heís been shackled as heís having to do a lot of the dirty work that Fab and Hendo would normally take care of, once they are back Iím sure we will see him influencing games from further up the pitch.
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Old 17-02-21, 11:28 AM   #599
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Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
You can already see he has improved us in our passing and control of the game I think it is the main reason he has been brought here. He helps us tremendously in keeping the ball. Heís not going to make the final decisive pass or play a killer ball that much as his role is to keep possession and be good in transition when we lose the ball. Heís not been perfect yet but heís playing in a team which has been struggling to win games consistently since the turn of the year.

For the times Iíve seen him play for Bayern he played in a deeper role, which he struggled with a bit here, which is why heís been moved to a no 8 type of role. But his ability to play different positions in midfield is probably valuable.

He played mostly in the pivot role for Bayern.

Kimmich ws the CDM who stayed deeper there for the most part and Goretzka was the more advanced but still box to box CM for them.

Thiago usually sat between those two. He helped progress play when Bayern had the ball and was key in getting Bayern past low block teams, but he was also a big part of breaking the press when Bayern did not have the ball.

The latter you could see him moving into postion to do when he was on the pitch last night. Time after time when RBL went to do their own high line press, Thiago was the guy looking to be the outlet for our player on the ball.

When RBL had the ball and were doing one of the many quick breaks, Thiago was taking up a position in one of the passing channels immediately.

Where both those things were not going quite right last night was that a number of times when the press was against us, our guys did not spot Thiago looking for the pass or went sideways or backwards.

And when he was trying to block the passing channels he needed at least one other from his midfield partners last night doing the same when he did so. Jones I cannot criticise much on that front as he is a young player and he will no doubt pick up that side of thing more with experience, but Wijnaldum a number of times lasnight was ball watching when RBL went to break and a few times RBL were able to take three or four players out of the game when they pressed or broke because the passing route on Wijnaldum's side was not being blocked by Wijnaldum.

Put Thiago in our team with Fabinho in the CDM role and Henderson in the slightly more advanced box to box role, and he would get the freedom to play in his Bayern style when we had the ball and he would also do the defensive shift when we did not have the ball but with the luxury of having Henderson and Fabinho naturally going into the correct positions more often than not alongside him.
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Old 17-02-21, 02:17 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
He played mostly in the pivot role for Bayern.

Kimmich ws the CDM who stayed deeper there for the most part and Goretzka was the more advanced but still box to box CM for them.

Thiago usually sat between those two. He helped progress play when Bayern had the ball and was key in getting Bayern past low block teams, but he was also a big part of breaking the press when Bayern did not have the ball.

The latter you could see him moving into postion to do when he was on the pitch last night. Time after time when RBL went to do their own high line press, Thiago was the guy looking to be the outlet for our player on the ball.

When RBL had the ball and were doing one of the many quick breaks, Thiago was taking up a position in one of the passing channels immediately.

Where both those things were not going quite right last night was that a number of times when the press was against us, our guys did not spot Thiago looking for the pass or went sideways or backwards.

And when he was trying to block the passing channels he needed at least one other from his midfield partners last night doing the same when he did so. Jones I cannot criticise much on that front as he is a young player and he will no doubt pick up that side of thing more with experience, but Wijnaldum a number of times lasnight was ball watching when RBL went to break and a few times RBL were able to take three or four players out of the game when they pressed or broke because the passing route on Wijnaldum's side was not being blocked by Wijnaldum.

Put Thiago in our team with Fabinho in the CDM role and Henderson in the slightly more advanced box to box role, and he would get the freedom to play in his Bayern style when we had the ball and he would also do the defensive shift when we did not have the ball but with the luxury of having Henderson and Fabinho naturally going into the correct positions more often than not alongside him.
...thought he ran his socks off last night. Still puts the boot in and mis-times a few but he's having to do a role he's not 100% suited to. He does make us much better in possession and his vision and range of passing is subtle and clever for the mostpart. He plays the ball that our midfielders have been reluctant to... he's the one who will make us tick when Hendo and Fab and around him.

People keep saying Fernandes changed Utd and he's just one player, but Thiago hasn't done that with us... Well, Fernandes was given a free rein, not a specific role and he just wandered all over the place when Utd where playing shite and fairly static - hence he stood out head and shoulders above everyone else. Thiago is a playing a disciplined role and is putting in a shift each game which will help his fitness. He'll be a superstar next season in a stronger first team...
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