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Old 15-06-12, 10:39 AM   #121
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Wheres your money Harv?
I think okc will get it in 6.

They need to get their acts together early in Miami though. Lebrons feeling it and wants this bad.
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Old 15-06-12, 10:45 AM   #122
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That wasnt a charge. Battier was moving. Just like cole was when harden got called.
Haha yeah of course.
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Old 15-06-12, 06:32 PM   #123
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I think okc will get it in 6.

They need to get their acts together early in Miami though. Lebrons feeling it and wants this bad.
I said before the tie began, that Miami needed 1 of the first 2 to have a chance of winning it, now they have the pressure is on OKC, and I have Heat as small favorites now. I still hope OKC win it though.
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Old 16-06-12, 10:29 PM   #124
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Is LeBron really that good? Or is it overhype?

I mean, is he better than Jordan was?
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Old 19-06-12, 08:44 AM   #125
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2-1 Heat in another fairly close game. I'm afraid the inexperience of OKC will cost them in the series.
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Old 19-06-12, 08:47 AM   #126
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Is LeBron really that good? Or is it overhype?

I mean, is he better than Jordan was?
Hard to say really, to different type of players. Jordan is without a doubt the better scorer, but I think Lebron is the better overall player, i.e. he takes more rebounds, have more blocks and I even think his assist rate is better.
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Old 20-06-12, 08:08 AM   #127
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Heat go 3 1 up and no team in finals history has come back from that deficit
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Old 20-06-12, 09:51 AM   #128
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They are in control now, can't see OKC coming back now. Heat just pushes through in the finals, and it seems OKC have those small slips that makes it hard for them. Heat just have the better bench it seems to me, and slightly more rutine as well.
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Old 20-06-12, 09:54 AM   #129
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Beforehand you would have said that OKC has more from the bench but they haven't really stepped up especially Harden who has gone cold
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Old 20-06-12, 10:39 AM   #130
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So close for the Heat, they look awesome at the moment and super clutch but......one win for OKC on Thursday and it's all on again. That was a worrying sign of Lebron's body breaking down after carrying them on his back all season so you never know.
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Old 20-06-12, 11:27 AM   #131
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Beforehand you would have said that OKC has more from the bench but they haven't really stepped up especially Harden who has gone cold
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Old 22-06-12, 07:22 AM   #132
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Luis was there for game 5

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Old 22-06-12, 08:12 AM   #133
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Lebron gets a ring and the MVP incredible performance and series from him

OKC looked shot and turned the ball over so many times although you cant legislate for Mike Miller shotting 7 3 pointers after shooting fuck all in the previous games
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Old 22-06-12, 08:34 AM   #134
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Lebron had a fantastic 5th game there, triple double and deserved MVP. Durant was the only player that seemed to cope with the pressure in this game, Westbrook being out of it.

Good news for the Heat, makes it easier to keep the team together next season. OKC just needs a bit more muscle in the team, and they will be an even stronger challenge next year. If they keep the team together as well, I can see a big rivalry going the next few years.
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Old 22-06-12, 02:30 PM   #135
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MVP, NBA Champion, Finals MVP and Olympic Gold is going to be a pretty productive year for LeGod!
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Old 22-06-12, 02:58 PM   #136
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Hard to say really, to different type of players. Jordan is without a doubt the better scorer, but I think Lebron is the better overall player, i.e. he takes more rebounds, have more blocks and I even think his assist rate is better.
No way is Lebron anywhere near MJ's level.

Of course he takes more boards...he's 6'9 and plays on the wing.

Jordan was incredible.

Lebrons not even as good as Magic Johnson was.

He's a great player, but he has some ways to go before he can be in the same league as Jordan/Magic/Hakeem etc.
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Old 22-06-12, 06:36 PM   #137
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No way is Lebron anywhere near MJ's level.

Of course he takes more boards...he's 6'9 and plays on the wing.

Jordan was incredible.

Lebrons not even as good as Magic Johnson was.

He's a great player, but he has some ways to go before he can be in the same league as Jordan/Magic/Hakeem etc.
That's why I said two different type of players and therefore difficult to say! It's not really fair to compare them. MJ is/was the best scorer in the league and has his merits there, but Lebron is a better overall player - he also makes more assists than Jordan did for example. But it's a bit like comparing a striker with a midfielder in football and deeming who is best - really makes little sense. A more fair comparison between a modern player and MJ would be Kobe, and MJ wins over him in almost every stat.
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Old 30-06-12, 11:46 AM   #138
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Old 30-06-12, 11:55 AM   #139
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LeBron isn't fit to lace Jordan's boots.
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Old 01-07-12, 05:33 PM   #140
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Few rumours knocking about that Howard wants a trade to Brooklyn

Also the Heat trying to sign Ray Allen but the Celtics have offered him more money
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Old 05-07-12, 08:14 AM   #141
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Steve Nash has joined the Lakers
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Old 05-07-12, 08:57 AM   #142
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Good signing for the Lakers, really need an improvement on that position. Not one for the long term, but will give them something really good for a few season. Cost them 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks though!
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Old 05-07-12, 09:06 AM   #143
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Yeah some would argue that injecting some decent youth into the team long term is more important

Rumours they are also going for Grant Hill to join the over 30's club
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Old 05-07-12, 09:30 AM   #144
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really? not that good anymore. I see Dragic is Suns replacement for Nash, so they have come out well really.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:36 AM   #145
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I dont really get the Hill one either heard it on ESPN

Suns also brining in Beasley from the Timberwolves
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Old 05-07-12, 12:31 PM   #146
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That's why I said two different type of players and therefore difficult to say! It's not really fair to compare them. MJ is/was the best scorer in the league and has his merits there, but Lebron is a better overall player - he also makes more assists than Jordan did for example. But it's a bit like comparing a striker with a midfielder in football and deeming who is best - really makes little sense. A more fair comparison between a modern player and MJ would be Kobe, and MJ wins over him in almost every stat.
Is he though? They aren't that different. They both hog the ball and play an outside game. Lebron could be a better inside presence if he wanted to, but he likes to bully smaller guards so doesn't mix with the big boys much.

Are you just looking at rebounding stats? Jordan was a better scorer, lightyears better defensively (he continually led the league in steals and always took the other teams best player in a tag team with Pippen), probably the most clutch player ever and a born leader.

Lebron isn't fit to wipe Jordans ass. Its not difficult, its fact
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Old 05-07-12, 01:00 PM   #147
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Uhm, no if you read one sentence further you would see that I didn't

Not saying Jordan isn't the better player, he almost trancended the game, I was just saying the allround game Lebron have a few better stats. He has more doubles and treble doubles than Jordan for example indicating a good overall game. Defensively Jordan was a better player But many also tend to compare an entire career of Jordan to only half with Lebron. It will be interesting in 6-7 years to see how they compare, although I still don't think it's quite a fair comparison, much like comparing footballers across era's and positions.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/mia...-the-stats-say

How does the 26-year-old LeBron James stack up with the 26-year-old Michael Jordan?

Scottie Pippen joined ESPN's "Mike & Mike in the Morning" on Friday and did what has been done a million times since LeBron James graced the cover of Sports Illustrated as "The Chosen One" back in 2002:

He compared LeBron to Michael.

But Pippen also did what has been done maybe only once: he said LeBron may be better.

Key word: may.

The exact quote:

Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far as to say that LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he's so potent offensively that not only can he score at will, but he keeps everybody involved and you have to be on your P's and Q's on defense because no guy on the basketball court is not a threat to score when LeBron James is out there.



It's interesting to hear Jordan's longtime teammate say that the reason LeBron may be superior is that "he keeps everybody involved."

Is Pippen right?

Is Jordan a better scorer than LeBron? Probably. Is LeBron a better distributor? Probably. Does that make LeBron a better player than Jordan?

Now, that's where we need some help.

Let's put Pippen's assertion to the test.

If we're doing an honest evaluation, we need to grade LeBron and Jordan on the same age curve. Let's compare LeBron's statistical profile to Jordan's statistical profile through their age-26 season.

LeBron vs. MJ (cumulative per-game stats thru age-26)
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Regular LeBron 40.1 20.6 47.9 32.9 74.4 7.1 7.0 3.3 27.7 31.8 26.9
Regular Jordan 39.0 23.4 51.6 28.2 84.8 6.3 6.0 3.3 32.8 33.8 29.9
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Playoffs LeBron 43.6 20.8 45.9 32.3 74.9 8.5 7.0 3.6 28.7 32.1 27.0
Playoffs Jordan 42.5 25.1 50.5 30.4 83.3 6.9 6.7 3.8 35.8 35.5 29.6


Here, we see that LeBron and Jordan are similar ballplayers in the sense that they score a lot points, they grab rebounds and distribute the ball. Jordan looks to be the superior scorer. He scores more points per game and scores more efficiently, with 3-pointers being the only shooting area in which Jordan doesn't have a leg up on James.

And depending on how you look at it, Jordan was the better shot creator, or he was a bigger ball hog. Jordan shot 23.4 field goal attempts per game and used more possessions while on the floor (USG tells us his usage rate, which is the estimated percentage of team possessions used either via field goal attempt, free throw attempt or turnover).

In the playoffs, Jordan asserted himself more than LeBron. Jordan raised his usage rate to 35.5 percent while LeBron's role grew only marginally in the playoffs (from 31.8 percent to 32.1 percent). But the fact Jordan remained efficient while taking more responsibility indicates that he was creating good shots as opposed to hijacking the offense for himself.

But if we use assists as a measuring stick, LeBron is the better passer at this point. Both LeBron's assists per game and his assist rate (as a percentage of total possessions) rank superior to Jordan's. That's not a total surprise, but the gap is smaller than one might think in the playoffs on a per-game level (7.0 to 6.7).

Overall? Looks like Jordan has him beat through age-26. While it's not the end-all-be-all, Jordan's player efficiency rating (PER) is decidedly better. Using other all-in-one metrics like win shares, we find a similar story: Jordan was overall more valuable according to these catch-all measures.

Forget earlier in their career, is LeBron better than Jordan was at 26 years old?

Let's take a look:

LeBron vs. MJ at 26
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Regular LeBron 38.8 18.8 51.0 33.0 75.9 7.5 7.0 3.6 26.7 31.5 27.3
Regular Jordan 39.0 24.0 52.6 37.6 84.8 6.9 6.3 3.0 33.6 33.7 31.2
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Playoffs LeBron 44.0 18.9 46.3 36.8 78.7 8.9 5.5 2.8 26.0 28.6 26.9
Playoffs Jordan 42.1 26.6 51.4 32.0 83.6 7.2 6.8 3.5 36.7 36.1 31.6


Here, we see a similar story: Jordan's better, and more of a scorer. Statistically, it's worth noting that LeBron's numbers are warped because of his star teammates this season. If, for example, we use LeBron's 2009-10 season as a comparison, it actually looks quite favorable compared to Jordan. But then we're just jumping around all over the place.

One of the big takeaways here is that Jordan did not have to share the ball with Pippen. Or at least, not nearly to the same degree that James has to share with Dwyane Wade ... and then add Chris Bosh to that mix.

When Jordan was in the playoffs during his age-26 season in 1989-1990, he took 26.6 field goal attempts per game. Scottie Pippen that playoffs? 14.0 shots per game. Horace Grant didn't take even 10 shots per game. By comparison, Wade and Bosh have taken 17.7 and 13.3 shots per game, respectively.

So when we compare Jordan and James at age 26, we have to be cognizant of their surroundings and contexts. Additionally, Jordan played in a time when it was more physical for perimeter players because there was no hand-checking rule. So there's that, too, and it's no small thing.

When we look at the assists, Jordan actually has the upper hand when he was in the playoffs. So at this moment, after watching LeBron here in the playoffs, Scottie Pippen is claiming that LeBron may be the better distributor and a better creator for his teammates when, in fact, Jordan at this age was dropping more dimes than LeBron in the playoffs. Of course, James was tallying more assists in Cleveland during the playoffs when he had the ball in his hands almost exclusively. So that's worth keeping in mind.

Another way to look at this would be to compare how LeBron's teammates fare on and off the court with LeBron, and then see what Jordan's teammates looked like. If Jordan racked up assists and made his teammates play better, then he has a solid case that he was just as good of a distributor as LeBron is right now. Unfortunately, we don't have that data at the moment, but the stat geeks out there would love to get their hands on some on-court/off-court data to tease out some of the subtle aspects of the game.

In the end, Pippen's right: LeBron may be the greatest player ever to play the game. His story isn't over yet. He has the size, the athleticism and the tools to get there. But statistically, Jordan is the better scorer and the passing gap isn't great enough to say that LeBron matches Jordan at this juncture in their basketball lifetimes.

They're both great.

The thing is, LeBron has completely overhauled his reputation in a matter of weeks.

We're learning now that as soon as we think we have a handle on James, he decides to write his own chapter in history.

It's worth keeping in mind that Jordan didn't win his first title until his was 28 years old.

LeBron is 26 years old now.

What will be his next chapter?
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Old 05-07-12, 01:04 PM   #148
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On the double and trebles:

Jordan after 15 years: 151 doubles and 25 triples

Lebron after 9 years: 195 doubles and 32 triples
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Old 05-07-12, 04:16 PM   #149
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Going on stats Shawn Marion was the best player in the league for the best part of last decade....and Jason Kidd almost has the most triple doubles ever. Is he better than both?

Ive watched both mate. Jordan was on another planet he was that good....and this was in the golden age of NBA. Look at the competition he had to face night in night out. The league is soft as butter now compared to the late 80's early 90's.

The only thing Lebron is better at is rebounding, because he's bigger. Thats it. Jordan has him covered in every other department. Don't let stats fool you. Jordan doesn't have the assist stats because he didn't need to pass...he could do it himself and more often than not did
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Old 05-07-12, 07:23 PM   #150
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I watched a lot of NBA up through the 90's, almost bigger than football for me at the time, seen plenty of Jordan even had posters and Bulls stuff so I know plenty how good he was.

I'm just saying it's not as one sided as people tend to call it just because Jordan is a legend and have had more seasons in the NBA. Will be interesting to see how they compare further down the line, although I still don't think it's an enterily valid comparison. It's a bit like when people compare current footballers with past legends, makes little sense in the end but always tempting to do it.
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Old 06-07-12, 08:22 AM   #151
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Jason Kidd joining the Knicks with the idea of mentoring Lin

Lin though has got a 30mil offer on the table to go back to the Rockets
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Old 07-07-12, 09:32 AM   #152
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Big move by Ray Allen!
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Old 07-07-12, 09:38 AM   #153
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Big move by Ray Allen!
Gone to the Heat?
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Old 07-07-12, 09:42 AM   #154
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Yep.
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Old 07-07-12, 09:43 AM   #155
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Nice addition for them
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Old 07-07-12, 09:44 AM   #156
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Apparently him and Rondo hated each other

And I would guess that puts paid to Garnett giving it another season
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Old 07-07-12, 09:49 AM   #157
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Yeah it's a good move for them for sure, he'll get a lot of open looks there!

Garnett agreed a new 3 year deal about a week or so ago.
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Old 08-07-12, 11:06 AM   #158
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Good move indeed, but from the Celtic perspective Rondo > Allen so makes sense moving him on.

They have signed Jason Terry as a replacement, not to bad really.
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Old 09-07-12, 02:59 PM   #159
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huge trade nearing completion for Dwight Howard apparently. Nets giving Lopez, Hump, Marshon Brooks + picks. Possiby 4 teams involved!

Will be firmly on the Brooklyn bandwagon if this happens Already leaning to them for the East. Brooklyns just so hip

Brooklyn and Golden State FTW
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Old 09-07-12, 03:03 PM   #160
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Just reading about that, a 3 team trade with Cleveland?

They will have arguably the best 2 players in the game in the positions where the Heat are weakest plus some decent outside scorers
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