It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892
Old 22-02-21, 01:03 PM   #921
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
The interaction and harmony between the ref and the video ref in rugby is something football could and should learn from.
It’s so well done and as a fan you get the decision even if in some cases you don’t agree with it (usually reds for dangerous play). All explained and crystal clear.
The draconian shit we see from the PL is horrendous, get it wrong they double down on what they’ve done any halfwitted pundits dragged out to defend their decisions.

Var should be a step forwards but somehow they’ve managed to make things so much worse
It is definitely one of the most circular debates of all time.

I wonder if football is so arrogant that it does not realise that football fans also watch other sports that use the same tech. It is certainly not a debate I have ever heard. Bringing in an ex RU ref, say Nigel Owens to talk about implementation would surely enlighten the conversation about where VAR is going wrong and how it could be better. Nobody seems to be taking ownership of that discussion within football and the PL.

The fact is, it is all so mysterious. Zero transparency, zero culpability. It is a movable feast of rules and decisions and the fact that they have changed so much within a season almost devalues the whole product. We have seen some absolute shockers this season, howlers that were supposed to be eradicated. That Sheff Utd one for example is ridiculous.

And this one is about as bad as it gets. Offside for pointing to where he wants the ball. Backing the tech as opposed to the game.

__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 01:31 PM   #922
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
It is definitely one of the most circular debates of all time.

I wonder if football is so arrogant that it does not realise that football fans also watch other sports that use the same tech. It is certainly not a debate I have ever heard. Bringing in an ex RU ref, say Nigel Owens to talk about implementation would surely enlighten the conversation about where VAR is going wrong and how it could be better. Nobody seems to be taking ownership of that discussion within football and the PL.

The fact is, it is all so mysterious. Zero transparency, zero culpability. It is a movable feast of rules and decisions and the fact that they have changed so much within a season almost devalues the whole product. We have seen some absolute shockers this season, howlers that were supposed to be eradicated. That Sheff Utd one for example is ridiculous.

And this one is about as bad as it gets. Offside for pointing to where he wants the ball. Backing the tech as opposed to the game.

I honestly think that there is something in the lack of awareness of other sports. I think that football and the FA/PL think that their sport is superior to everything else and by extension everything that they do is right or cannot be questioned. To me there is certainly an arrogance that the system is perfect and as such nothing needs to be explained because as they see it the process is perfect and the system is absolute (which clearly it isn't).

One thing that pisses me off about the FA in particular is they give the impression that they consider themselves above any other FA or ruling body, it feels to me almost imperialistic.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 01:35 PM   #923
RichC
Meh
 
RichC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_red View Post
I honestly think that there is something in the lack of awareness of other sports. I think that football and the FA/PL think that their sport is superior to everything else and by extension everything that they do is right or cannot be questioned. To me there is certainly an arrogance that the system is perfect and as such nothing needs to be explained because as they see it the process is perfect and the system is absolute (which clearly it isn't).

One thing that pisses me off about the FA in particular is they give the impression that they consider themselves above any other FA or ruling body, it feels to me almost imperialistic.
You wonder why England time and again loses the rights to host big international tournaments here. I'd say a large part of it is our representitives in the FA (and mass corruption)
RichC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-21, 03:04 PM   #924
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
You wonder why England time and again loses the rights to host big international tournaments here. I'd say a large part of it is our representitives in the FA (and mass corruption)
I imagine that kind of attitude doesn't win you many friends, and as these things are essentially popularity contests it's unsurprising that they don't win any of these bids
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-21, 07:38 PM   #925
McDermotX
Paisley
 
McDermotX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,902
VAR interjects in the Leeds Southampton game.

Ref (Mariner) goes to the monitor and correctly changes his mind with regard to a pen decision he awarded.
Spent a decent amount of time looking at it. Forward looking for the foul etc......like the vast majority of pens awarded nowadays.




I'm baffled at the inconsistency.
__________________
"I will make the boys feel your support"
Jurgen Klopp June 2020
McDermotX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-21, 08:20 PM   #926
S-RED
Dalglish
 
S-RED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,533
The problem with consistency is that if that had been a Rashford or a Kane he would not have changed the decision; in fact VAR probably would not have intervened
S-RED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-21, 09:51 PM   #927
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44,305
The other thing they could do to ensure the amount of time taken isn’t such an issue is stop the bloody clock???

Watching the clock tick on whilst it all plays on is also ridiculous.
__________________
Create a memory
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-21, 10:40 AM   #928
Pablo
Anti-Antipodeanite
 
Pablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDermotX View Post
VAR interjects in the Leeds Southampton game.

Ref (Mariner) goes to the monitor and correctly changes his mind with regard to a pen decision he awarded.
Spent a decent amount of time looking at it. Forward looking for the foul etc......like the vast majority of pens awarded nowadays.




I'm baffled at the inconsistency.
I heard that in our game he was checking if it was a red for Trent? They didn't even think it was worth a check if was actually a penalty. They were that sure about it. Not sure how true it is, but it's just as bad either way.
Pablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-21, 01:44 PM   #929
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
I heard that in our game he was checking if it was a red for Trent? They didn't even think it was worth a check if was actually a penalty. They were that sure about it. Not sure how true it is, but it's just as bad either way.
This is where people need to be told what they are checking and giving an explanation for the decisions, because it's now days later and people still don't know what the hell was going on
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-21, 04:56 PM   #930
Irishnev
Shankly
 
Irishnev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,438
Irishnev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-21, 05:42 PM   #931
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,588
Until we've seen it frame by frame and from 74 angles we can't be sure
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-21, 07:03 PM   #932
Irishnev
Shankly
 
Irishnev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbs View Post
Until we've seen it frame by frame and from 74 angles we can't be sure
They only seem to do that for us and manipulate it to suit the desired outcome
Irishnev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-21, 01:48 PM   #933
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
Had one last night, Sheffield player clearly offside, ball is cleared by our defender and the result was a corner. Presumably the linesman didn't flag in accordance we ith the new VAR rules, but because the ball want put in the net, it wasn't called as offside/reviewed. Seen it loads all season.

I think it's a better system than the flag going up and expecting everyone to play on regardless, but it seems that linesman are concentrating less on offside calls, or don't have a reliable way of letting the ref know without the flag in real-time, and the corner is given by the ref before they can intervene.
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.

Last edited by Kenneth; 01-03-21 at 01:52 PM.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-21, 02:12 PM   #934
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,588
Are corners considered a goal scoring opportunity? If they are then at that stage a goal kick should be rewarded
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-21, 02:59 PM   #935
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
VAR doesn't go back to the awarding of corners or freekicks if there is a review of a goal scored from them.
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 10:07 AM   #936
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 131,274
__________________
Fucking chances, goals
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 10:25 AM   #937
Alex
Administrator
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,757
I hate it and its killing football.
__________________
*Except Michael, who died.
Alex is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 10:53 AM   #938
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
I hate it and its killing football.


I thought the odd poor decision a few years ago was frustrating. VAR in it's attempt to improve things has made it 100 times worse, there are shit decisions every game that have been reviewed by VAR and often by the ref on the pitch side monitor using slow mo, multiple angles and take 2 or 3 mins to reach and are still fucking wrong.

Consistency has gone to shit too same incident one week is a pen or an offside the next week it isn't

An official just getting the decision wrong because he only saw it once from a single angle in real time is the dream at the moment, we could understand why he got it wrong and move on.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 10:53 AM   #939
Harv
Randy Marsh
 
Harv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,189
Yep, VAR + no fans and football is just joyless.

Those handball/non handball decisions from last nights games are a joke.

The Fulham player had his arm hard up against his body and the ball was leather at him from half a meter away FFS! He had no chance of doing anything other than what he did.

Conversely ours, the Chav had his arms up in the fucking air and blocked a cross!! Since when has that not been a pen?!?

Even the Chav offside goal was a joke. You cant give that offside, how many goals have you ever seen scored by someones elbow?
__________________
"When a man insults my country I insult him, by taking his woman" Tony Yeboah

"looking through your posts since 2007 and what you have consistently written about my football team I have come to the conclusion that if you had 1 more brain cell you would be a plant .. your father was a hamster and your mother smells of elder berries, I fart in your general direction ..." Nicey
Harv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 11:27 AM   #940
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
The Fulham one shows just how stupid the current rules are around contact with the arm when a goal is scored. There is zero reason why they have brought in that specific rule, it's illogical and stupid.
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 12:18 PM   #941
Bender
Bite my shiny metal ass!
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
The Fulham one shows just how stupid the current rules are around contact with the arm when a goal is scored. There is zero reason why they have brought in that specific rule, it's illogical and stupid.
Indeed that was laughable... All the players and managers now shout is var var ... just get rid of it.
Bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 04:01 PM   #942
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
The Fulham one shows just how stupid the current rules are around contact with the arm when a goal is scored. There is zero reason why they have brought in that specific rule, it's illogical and stupid.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 04:53 PM   #943
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,651
Still rather have VAR than conceding a goal in a tight game via a one eyed assistant referee with no way of reversing the decision. They'll eventually sort it out.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 05:32 PM   #944
Alex
Administrator
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,757
I dont think VAR has added anything to the game.

What's the benefit bar the odd marginal call? If anything people kick off about VAR as much, its just shifted the anger to a different place. When the focus should probably be on supporting the Refs to do their job better, shouldn't it?
__________________
*Except Michael, who died.
Alex is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 05:48 PM   #945
chadrtc
Dalglish
 
chadrtc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
I dont think VAR has added anything to the game.

What's the benefit bar the odd marginal call? If anything people kick off about VAR as much, its just shifted the anger to a different place. When the focus should probably be on supporting the Refs to do their job better, shouldn't it?


I was really looking forward to it being introduced as I expected it to bring about consistency, but it's completely farcical now. No two games are refereed in the same way - the dreaded purple screen now just feels more like a lottery. I can't remember the last time I watched a game where there wasn't a VAR issue one way or another.

The lack of crowds have made time wasting in games the norm as well. I don't recall seeing a single booking for time wasting since the crowds went away, but it's there in almost every match. 60 second setups for every goal kick and loads of throw ins.

Football is bad enough due to our results of late, but even when we were top at Xmas, the season was already a terrible watch. I can't see myself wanting to watch games live for much longer if the game continues down this route. The mad thing is - I don't feel any of this in European games. The issues seem to be squarely based around the Premier League's interpretation of the technology.
chadrtc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 07:00 PM   #946
Maxiedge
Shankly
 
Maxiedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,375
They've changed the handball law again today which means the Fulham goal would have stood yesterday. Complete farce
Maxiedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-21, 10:04 PM   #947
S-RED
Dalglish
 
S-RED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,533
Yes but not until after 1st July... apparently
S-RED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-21, 12:43 PM   #948
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,235
Yep the new rule kicks in from July.

Means from July 2020 to July 2021 there will have been three different handball rules in play.

The one that started this season, the one that came in whilst this season was in play, and the one coming in July which is actually close to the one that started this season.

The Fulham goal would have stood with the rule that started the season and with the rule that starts next July.
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to
Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do
Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you
And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-21, 01:02 PM   #949
ChesterDave
Paisley
 
ChesterDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25,040
Does that not mean the rule changes mid Euros?
__________________
Lot and lots of points still to go. We're going to win it for a 7th time instead.
ChesterDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-21, 11:08 PM   #950
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
Not handball and not reviewed on the monitor

__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-21, 11:27 PM   #951
ChesterDave
Paisley
 
ChesterDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25,040
Defo hand ball for me. Doesn't matter that he hasn't moved his hand to the ball - his arm shouldn't be out that far.
__________________
Lot and lots of points still to go. We're going to win it for a 7th time instead.
ChesterDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 02:44 AM   #952
foresterbloke
Run the Jewels
 
foresterbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 34,918
His arm is fucking sideways and Pepe doesn't slam it into him either. Total stonewall penalty that is.
__________________
Great Britain is really fucked.
foresterbloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 08:12 AM   #953
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
Not handball and not reviewed on the monitor

https://twitter.com/arsenal_video/st...01510044065799
Did VAR review that and decide it wasn't handball or did it just completely miss the incident? Because that's as clear a handball as you will see, I can't believe anyone has looked at that and said no pen
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 11:49 AM   #954
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
I believe VAR did check it, but the ref wasn’t asked to look at the replay on the monitor.
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 11:54 AM   #955
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33,588
It wasn't a penalty. Pepe flicks the ball up and it hits his arm from point blank range. Unnatural arm position is irrelevant when it is at close range

I've learnt from what was said on here after the Firmino incident in our midweek game
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 01:06 PM   #956
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,973
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 03:11 PM   #957
ChesterDave
Paisley
 
ChesterDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25,040
Ref gave a penalty and a red card. VAR intervened and ref reversed both decisions.
__________________
Lot and lots of points still to go. We're going to win it for a 7th time instead.
ChesterDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-21, 03:13 PM   #958
ChesterDave
Paisley
 
ChesterDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbs View Post
It wasn't a penalty. Pepe flicks the ball up and it hits his arm from point blank range. Unnatural arm position is irrelevant when it is at close range
Nah. Gives players the opportunity to deliberately create an obstacle for attacking players to get the ball past.
__________________
Lot and lots of points still to go. We're going to win it for a 7th time instead.
ChesterDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-21, 02:42 AM   #959
foresterbloke
Run the Jewels
 
foresterbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 34,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbs View Post
It wasn't a penalty. Pepe flicks the ball up and it hits his arm from point blank range. Unnatural arm position is irrelevant when it is at close range

I've learnt from what was said on here after the Firmino incident in our midweek game
Sorry, he doesn't smash it and his arm is already fully extended sideways at the point Pepe's boot touches the ball. That would be a sending off it was on the goal line.
__________________
Great Britain is really fucked.
foresterbloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-21, 07:01 AM   #960
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 44,537
No fucker knows the rules anymore, they change them that frequently they are just making them up as they go along, while VAR might not be directly to blame the rules have been modified for the VAR era and it's just messed things up further.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > Football > General Football

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:25 PM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.