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Old 23-01-20, 10:59 AM   #24401
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Absolutely not picking at that but I think we were back at our peak last season, and that's pure praise for Klopp. 97pts is virtually as good as it has ever been up until this season, it was only because of those oil funded freaks
2015 - 2019

Give or take. But the world has changed and to win the league takes something approaching triple figures in points. Where will they find someone to take them to those levels?

But, yes. We were properly good last season too.
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Old 23-01-20, 11:00 AM   #24402
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I'm not sure they will have so much money going forward. There's only so many years you can go without CL football. The stadium will stop selling out. The commercial tie ups won't be renewed at the same rates, let alone increased ones.

They are already stalling on one deal over cost. The empire is crumbling.
Man, I hope you are right, I'm just a pessimist
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Old 23-01-20, 11:05 AM   #24403
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Man, I hope you are right, I'm just a pessimist
They'll still have cash, just not the eye watering sums of the past.

You cannot underestimate the importance of CL football. Not just for the prize money, but for the knock on effects it has on recruitment, endorsements, and general perceptions of a club by potential partners and staff (players and managers included).
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Old 23-01-20, 11:06 AM   #24404
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Well, we've all been there tbh.
We sure have and come out the other side
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Old 23-01-20, 11:14 AM   #24405
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They'll still have cash, just not the eye watering sums of the past.

You cannot underestimate the importance of CL football. Not just for the prize money, but for the knock on effects it has on recruitment, endorsements, and general perceptions of a club by potential partners and staff (players and managers included).
Apparently they have massive deals coming up though after adidas and Chevrolet, but we'll see if they come to fruition.

They've still got a fair amount in the bank tbf but they'll need it.

Apparently they're after Jude Bellingham - he looks a real prospect. But he's 16 and the money is £30m. It'd be hilarious if he rejects them.
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Old 23-01-20, 11:20 AM   #24406
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I would say they are a minimum of 5 years from challenging again. But in all probability, probably much longer.

It took Klopp 4 years to get us to where we are now, and we were never that bad. And that was Klopp. Where would they find a Klopp from? There is Poch available, but he's not even close to being that good.

We already had the off field structure in place, we just needed that figurehead to bring it all together and overhaul the squad. And it took 4 years.

United have none of that structure right now. It's a complete mess. Still looking for a DoF after what, 18 months? That in itself is unbelievable. No vision, no structure - just making do with the consequences of one bad decision after another.

Here is question though - why has Woodward not resigned yet? He's getting piled on by everyone, and while not everything is his fault, a lot of it stops with him. The Glazers seem to be happy, but he can't be happy with his own work. I can't believe he hasn't quit.

Maybe he will.
The 5 years assumes that they get the right manager and put in place a top class recruiting policy

I dont see them doing either of them things any time soon

Woodward is a Liverpool fan isnt he, probably couldnt give two fucks
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Old 23-01-20, 11:21 AM   #24407
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Apparently they have massive deals coming up though after adidas and Chevrolet, but we'll see if they come to fruition.

They've still got a fair amount in the bank tbf but they'll need it.

Apparently they're after Jude Bellingham - he looks a real prospect. But he's 16 and the money is £30m. It'd be hilarious if he rejects them.
Can't see Chevrolet chucking anything like the sort of cash they did last time?
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Old 23-01-20, 11:24 AM   #24408
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Apparently they're after Jude Bellingham - he looks a real prospect. But he's 16 and the money is £30m. It'd be hilarious if he rejects them.

Wonder if he’s more wondrous than our wonderkid Elliot, who cost a measly £1.5m
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Old 23-01-20, 11:25 AM   #24409
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Can't see Chevrolet chucking anything like the sort of cash they did last time?
Didn't the guy made that deal get the sack - for exactly that reason?
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Old 23-01-20, 11:25 AM   #24410
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Can't see Chevrolet chucking anything like the sort of cash they did last time?

Definitely not, the Chev guy who signed the deal had to resign allegedly in the days following that agreement
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Old 23-01-20, 11:27 AM   #24411
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Apparently they're after Jude Bellingham - he looks a real prospect. But he's 16 and the money is £30m. It'd be hilarious if he rejects them.
The lad looks a prospect but for me theres a few things

He probably needs to develop further and Birmingham looks like the ideal place for now

If he was moving to a big club then somewhere like us would be perfect to nurture him along the way but game time would be an issue

At United he will get more game time but theres a massive risk of burnout and he would have no support system on the pitch around him. I still think this is a massive thing for young players there are no decent old heads at United who can carry players alongwith them through tough moments
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Old 23-01-20, 11:28 AM   #24412
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Wonder if he’s more wondrous than our wonderkid Elliot, who cost a measly £1.5m
Wasnt Elliott out of contract? Also isnt his fee due to be settled at tribunal?
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Old 23-01-20, 11:37 AM   #24413
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The lad looks a prospect but for me theres a few things

He probably needs to develop further and Birmingham looks like the ideal place for now

If he was moving to a big club then somewhere like us would be perfect to nurture him along the way but game time would be an issue

At United he will get more game time but theres a massive risk of burnout and he would have no support system on the pitch around him. I still think this is a massive thing for young players there are no decent old heads at United who can carry players alongwith them through tough moments
Aye, on paper it's a deal that we should look at and has had been said we have in Elliot. We could buy him now and loan him back for a season or two. And he wouldn't start for us for years and until he trained in the system, United would just throw him in the deep end.
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Old 23-01-20, 11:56 AM   #24414
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It's mad that there are 4 points separating 5th and 14th places atm.

Wolves next for United. It could get a lot worse for them soon.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:02 PM   #24415
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Losing Rashford was probably the worst thing that could've happened for them, having Lukaku banging them in for Inter is making it even sweeter.

Can't see them making the CL now, Martial is no centre forward and Greenwood is too young, Maguire is being found as very average, their best midfielders are out and DDG is regressing still, they have some many gaping holes in the squad that they probably don't know where to start.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:05 PM   #24416
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Aye, on paper it's a deal that we should look at and has had been said we have in Elliot. We could buy him now and loan him back for a season or two. And he wouldn't start for us for years and until he trained in the system, United would just throw him in the deep end.
I would actually like us to hoover up talent like this

Its kind of what we did in the 70's and 80's in our pomp and also what United did at times under Fergie

Hes very young though and its a huge amount
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Old 23-01-20, 12:25 PM   #24417
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Old 23-01-20, 12:29 PM   #24418
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Old 23-01-20, 12:30 PM   #24419
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Long may it continue

I was talking to a client last week about Solskjaer and he is actually a supporter of him and wants to give him more time

He wasnt having any of it when I said he was out of his depth until I asked him "Do you want Klopp to stay at Liverpool?" He replied no and suggested many United fans were fearful of Klopp staying with us

I then said to him that the vast majority of Liverpool fans wanted Ole to stay and really that should be enough for any United fan to see how well hes doing
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Old 23-01-20, 12:32 PM   #24420
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I would actually like us to hoover up talent like this

Its kind of what we did in the 70's and 80's in our pomp and also what United did at times under Fergie

Hes very young though and its a huge amount
Aye, exactly. I'm talking about this player in particular. Throwing £30m on 16yo kids unless exceptional could be a risky strategy but if its a generational talent like Mbappe then you're saving a fortune and setting the team up for dominance.

United with Rooney, Ronaldo etc.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:45 PM   #24421
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Old 23-01-20, 12:49 PM   #24422
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Much as with players, you wonder if a lot of elite managers have the appetite for the challenge?

The best manager they could hope for is Pochetino, but a. He has never won anything, so the pressure on him would be immense, and b. does he really want the job?

He will be very much in demand, but perhaps a move to Spain would suit him better or another prem job where the building blocks are in place.

I think Utd missed a trick in not going for Brendan, if you look at what he has achieved with Leicester (including getting £80m from Utd for Maguire). Would Brendan leave Leicester for Utd now? I'm not so sure.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:56 PM   #24423
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That sounds uncomfortably like a vote of confidence.

He might be gone within the week.
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Old 23-01-20, 01:23 PM   #24424
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Much as with players, you wonder if a lot of elite managers have the appetite for the challenge?

The best manager they could hope for is Pochetino, but a. He has never won anything, so the pressure on him would be immense, and b. does he really want the job?

He will be very much in demand, but perhaps a move to Spain would suit him better or another prem job where the building blocks are in place.

I think Utd missed a trick in not going for Brendan, if you look at what he has achieved with Leicester (including getting £80m from Utd for Maguire). Would Brendan leave Leicester for Utd now? I'm not so sure.
Haha no chance was Brendan going to get near that job due to his connection with us

I think he would have them playing better football with a definite identity

I am honestly not sure who I would go for in terms of getting a long term plan together, it probably wouldnt be Pochettino either

That said Poch would at least again give them an identity

The problem with Solskjaer as I see it, is that its unlikely that anyone else wouldnt do a better job than he is doing
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Old 23-01-20, 01:23 PM   #24425
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That sounds uncomfortably like a vote of confidence.

He might be gone within the week.
Yeah won't be long now unfortunately
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Old 23-01-20, 01:41 PM   #24426
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FA Cup exit and he's gone
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Old 23-01-20, 01:47 PM   #24427
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Haha no chance was Brendan going to get near that job due to his connection with us

I think he would have them playing better football with a definite identity

I am honestly not sure who I would go for in terms of getting a long term plan together, it probably wouldnt be Pochettino either

That said Poch would at least again give them an identity

The problem with Solskjaer as I see it, is that its unlikely that anyone else wouldnt do a better job than he is doing
It's a real conundrum for them ().

They don't have an Arteta/Gerrard/Lampard type out there operating and learning at a different club. Solskjaer definitely wasn't ready and just ultimately doesnt seem to have what it takes the charisma, presence or ability - nor will he ever have it.

With Rodgers not being achievable who else is there? Nuno Espirito Santo, but again he has invested too much into Wolves and I struggle to see the appeal for him of the toxic environment at Man U, and again he hasn't won a trophy, and has Wolves almost at Utds level anyway. Im assuming money isn't a huge factor for employed managers in a decent and thriving project.

Until they get a stable side to the football side of the club they are struggling. Commercially Woodward is obviously really strong, so they cant fire him. They must be looking to replicate our model, but then we spent over a decade refining it and had on the face of it a really strong squad at the right age when Klopp came in.

They maybe havent hit rock bottom quite yet, that will happen when teams move past them as Spurs will again surely and Arsenal, Wolves, maybe even Everton if they make smart decisions behind Ancelloti. Watching Sheffield Utd and you see the unity and coherent identity they have and realise Utd are miles away even from that.
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Old 23-01-20, 01:49 PM   #24428
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They'll try and go for Pochetino surely, what with his PL experience. I think he's high enough profile for them too now. If they do, it won't be an instant success though, he'd need to overhaul their squad still, and would need 3 seasons to get their intensity level up before them losing interest and downing tools in the 4th season
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Old 23-01-20, 02:06 PM   #24429
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They'll try and go for Pochetino surely, what with his PL experience. I think he's high enough profile for them too now. If they do, it won't be an instant success though, he'd need to overhaul their squad still, and would need 3 seasons to get their intensity level up before them losing interest and downing tools in the 4th season


Yep. The great thing is, there are no guarantees.

The reason it is all so sweet is that if any fanbase on the planet know and understand how hard it is to get back to the top, then it is ours. I can recall exactly how it felt when you watch a 'down tools' performance like they had last night. One where you realise quite how shit you have become.

It fucking sucks
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Old 23-01-20, 02:18 PM   #24430
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It’s ok, they’re bringing Tevez back apparently
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Old 23-01-20, 02:56 PM   #24431
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Having a late lunch and scrolling through the gift that keeps on giving.

Reality bites on RedCafe.

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If we sign some players and quick, even Lou Macari said last night that we have to spend and now, it might lift the team. If not it will get a lot worse as you say. We could be out of two cups in a short time and I do not have any hope for a EL win. People saying no europe might be a good thing, in the past maybe. This time it could just be the beginning of a massive slide.
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The gap between us and Chelsea is 6 points. But the gap between us and Newcastle (in 14th place) is 4 points. With a difficult run of games coming up, we could quite easily slide into the bottom half of the table. Next up are...

Wolves
Chelsea
Watford
Everton
Man City
Tottenham

On current form I wouldn’t expect many points out of this. So, no, we’ve yet to reach rock bottom!
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If you list our results in order of the opponent's current league positions, it reads like this (/ between results where we have played a team twice)- highest placed teams first (i.e. it runs from L'pool to Norwich)
D/L W W W W D D D D/L L D W/L L/W W D L L L W/W
Which is pretty shocking. Against teams above us, P5 W3 D1 L1 10pts (2 per match)
Against teams in the 30-34 point range : P12 W3 D5 L4 14pts (1.17 per match)
Against the bottom 6 P 7 W3 D1 L3 10pts (1.42 per match)

If our sparkling form continues at this level (and are there any signs that we are going to learn how to break down teams that defend against us, or start getting clean sheets? Not to my eyes) without our best forward, we can look forward to
5 games against the bottom 6 - 7 points
6 games against the middle group - 7 pts
plus whatever we can get away at Leicester and Chelsea, and home to City :

That would mean we are heading for 48 points plus our tally from those last 3.
So 48 points, then.

4th place my arse.
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My opinion remains the same - we have much lower depths to plummet under this coaching team and manager.

By March, we're going to be 10th or lower. Ole cannot stop a nosedive - he proved that last season. Our team has no spine - they've proved that numerous times. That is a melting pot for disaster - I can honestly see this team hitting 13th-14th position by April. Without Rashford, we don't score goals. It's as simple as that.

There are two ways we can stop the nosedive. Either the board sign 2 new players to lift the mood and contribute to attacking/goals, and/or they fire Ole and the squad gets that new manager bounce again that MIGHT scrape us into the top 4.

Do neither, and we're finishing in the bottom half.
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Old 23-01-20, 03:07 PM   #24432
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They'll try and go for Pochetino surely, what with his PL experience. I think he's high enough profile for them too now. If they do, it won't be an instant success though, he'd need to overhaul their squad still, and would need 3 seasons to get their intensity level up before them losing interest and downing tools in the 4th season
Would he give up his gardening leave bonus? Wasn't it around £15m not to manage in the PL for a year?

It'd cost the Scum big time to compensate him for that....
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Old 23-01-20, 04:17 PM   #24433
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Would he give up his gardening leave bonus? Wasn't it around £15m not to manage in the PL for a year?

It'd cost the Scum big time to compensate him for that....
Surely Levy would negotiate with United around that. In reality, if he was still at spurs and it cost them 15m or whatever to release him, then united would pay it if he was their man. I think if Levy and Woodward talked, then a deal could be done. Spurs would save a couple of million, United would pay a couple of million and there'd probably be a clause if united got CL qualification, they'd pay a bit extra.

People say he is a class manager..... But it started to go shite for him at spurs too.

Also, his stock is high. He might wait to see what is there in the summer
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Old 23-01-20, 04:56 PM   #24434
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Another enjoyable listen.

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Old 23-01-20, 06:01 PM   #24435
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What sweet music
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Old 23-01-20, 06:15 PM   #24436
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Random.
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Old 23-01-20, 07:44 PM   #24437
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Old 23-01-20, 07:45 PM   #24438
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Not taking this well are they?
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Old 23-01-20, 07:47 PM   #24439
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I really misread that. Thought they were offering to bum the lot
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Old 23-01-20, 07:50 PM   #24440
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I really misread that. Thought they were offering to bum the lot
Not sure which is worse tbh
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