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Old 02-03-21, 12:41 PM   #641
Jaco_Pastorious
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Originally Posted by Paul12 View Post
I get that he is a really good player, but this season and in that team as it is currently playing, he is in my view a weak link. His tackling leads to yellow cards and free kicks given away in dangerous positions. His attempts to turn his way out of close attention are being read too easily. And, when I watch closely what he does with the ball, I find his usage is currently less progressive/incisive than the other midfielders' usage.

I think he has found it a really tough start and has started to concentrate mainly on not losing the ball, even when close to the box. We have so much ball ten years outside the box and what we need is someone who the opposition are scared of leaving with the ball in that position.


And yet he is the midfielder who has been dispossessed the least, misplaced the least passes from him, made the most successful passes, and won the most tackles from between him, Wijnaldum and Jones the past five or six games.

Not to mention the fact he is playing a different role to what he played when at Bayern and is primarily being used in a CDM role for us. He is basically being used in the role Fabinho used to play in for us and he is not as good in that role as Fabinho is.

What he has been in most of the games he has played in for us is solid but unspectactular. He is doing all the basics well, and he is recycling the ball better than all our other starting midfielders. Is he racking up goals and assists? No but then again he never did that for Bayern or Barca ether.

Is he finding forward players with passes? Turns out he is and the guy he is finding the most in the final third is Firmino. The guy he was finding the second most in our last game in the final third was Wijnaldum.


So as said he is having solid games and I suspect that if players he was finding in the final third were in turn setting up assists more or scoring more then Thiago might be standing out more as a result.

But as said by a number of folk, the new guys in the team are a bit of a red herring as to why the team looks so disjointed. If we look past the obvious injuries then the new guys like Kabak and Thiago seem to be looked at a lot more as reasons why we are not playing well than guys like Wijnaldum, Milner, Robertson, TAA, Firmino, Mane etc who have underperformed a hell of a lot this season and who have been more guilty of playing it safe, dithering on the ball, misplacing passes, being dispossessed than the new guys still setlling into a new team and country.

If Thiago and Kabak are expected to hit the ground running in a misfiring team, then where are our settled regulars when it comes to doing what we are ecpecting the new guys to be doing?
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Old 03-03-21, 12:58 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
And yet he is the midfielder who has been dispossessed the least, misplaced the least passes from him, made the most successful passes, and won the most tackles from between him, Wijnaldum and Jones the past five or six games.

Not to mention the fact he is playing a different role to what he played when at Bayern and is primarily being used in a CDM role for us. He is basically being used in the role Fabinho used to play in for us and he is not as good in that role as Fabinho is.

What he has been in most of the games he has played in for us is solid but unspectactular. He is doing all the basics well, and he is recycling the ball better than all our other starting midfielders. Is he racking up goals and assists? No but then again he never did that for Bayern or Barca ether.

Is he finding forward players with passes? Turns out he is and the guy he is finding the most in the final third is Firmino. The guy he was finding the second most in our last game in the final third was Wijnaldum.


So as said he is having solid games and I suspect that if players he was finding in the final third were in turn setting up assists more or scoring more then Thiago might be standing out more as a result.

But as said by a number of folk, the new guys in the team are a bit of a red herring as to why the team looks so disjointed. If we look past the obvious injuries then the new guys like Kabak and Thiago seem to be looked at a lot more as reasons why we are not playing well than guys like Wijnaldum, Milner, Robertson, TAA, Firmino, Mane etc who have underperformed a hell of a lot this season and who have been more guilty of playing it safe, dithering on the ball, misplacing passes, being dispossessed than the new guys still setlling into a new team and country.

If Thiago and Kabak are expected to hit the ground running in a misfiring team, then where are our settled regulars when it comes to doing what we are ecpecting the new guys to be doing?
Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
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Old 03-03-21, 01:02 PM   #643
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Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
Aye, next season will be the one to judge him on as will have most of the 1st team back...byjasus, we will see a very different player as Thiago will have the season behind him & a full pre-season with us.
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Old 03-03-21, 03:07 PM   #644
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Old 03-03-21, 05:34 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by Tribute View Post
Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
I don't agree: I think the stats quoted just show how easy it is to use stats to support almost any view one might have (Butch Wilkins probably had a high success rate for his passing too, but it was rarely progressive); Gini has been playing defensive midfield in some of the recent games and in at least one other Thiago had to be moved to a more advanced role because he was not able to cope in a covering role forward; and he gave away the freekick against Leicester and it was his header that created the passing opporrtunity for Everton's first goal so, even if I wouldn't put the blame for those goals solely at his feet, I also wouldn't describe his performances as 'solid'.

I do have high hopes for him in a Liverpool shirt and everytime he gets the ball I will him to do something decent with it, but currently he is in the 11 because of a lack of decent alternatives rather than because of his performances.
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Old 03-03-21, 06:37 PM   #646
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I don't agree: I think the stats quoted just show how easy it is to use stats to support almost any view one might have (Butch Wilkins probably had a high success rate for his passing too, but it was rarely progressive); Gini has been playing defensive midfield in some of the recent games and in at least one other Thiago had to be moved to a more advanced role because he was not able to cope in a covering role forward; and he gave away the freekick against Leicester and it was his header that created the passing opporrtunity for Everton's first goal so, even if I wouldn't put the blame for those goals solely at his feet, I also wouldn't describe his performances as 'solid'.

I do have high hopes for him in a Liverpool shirt and everytime he gets the ball I will him to do something decent with it, but currently he is in the 11 because of a lack of decent alternatives rather than because of his performances.

Fine - thatís your opinion, I just disagree.
You can prove anything with stats, and quite right too...

Thiago was moved forward to offer more of an attacking threat than the other two alongside him... to try and unlock some passes to the front three. In my view - and yes, it is my view - heís coped admirably as a CDM considering itís not his natural position.

There are plenty of others who have played far worse of late...
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Old Yesterday, 11:28 PM   #647
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Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 PM   #648
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Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
Agree with that
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Imy View Post
Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
so far sadly this does look the case. He ll get his chance next season in our proper setup to show his class but thus far he has been pretty dreadful.
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