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Old Yesterday, 09:41 AM   #601
frank the tank
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It has got to be a confidence / belief issue. Maybe debatable tactics as well or just bad decision making ( as Klopp mentions at each of his post match at the moment). How can we be hitting so many crosses against Burnley when itís meat and drink defending for them?

But on the main I think that lack of confidence makes our forward play predictable because we play the safe pass. Itís safe for Trent to cross it as the space he is into just invites it. Teams pack the area with bodies and are banking on us losing patience or making the wrong pass, which weíre doing a lot of the moment.

Having said that, we had the chances last night. Just not enough and consistently enough in the game to put Burnley under siege for longer periods. We did briefly threaten to run them over for a 10 minute period in the second half but they saw and rectified the issue tactically and we couldnít find another way to that.

Itís belief and confidence the issue and itís not going to be easy. Weíre not shit and havenít become shit overnight and donít believe that narrative. Jurgen and the coaching staff have to find something somewhere starting Sunday against United. Maybe play some of our fringe players and give them a chance but something need to be done slightly out of the ordinary now.

Life is grim without our reds.
The selection of Origi and Shaq last night was two fold. To give Bobby and Salah a rest if possible and also to shoot from the edge of the box. Origi took a few shots from outside the box. Just that most of them were straight at Pope. Total shite from Origi missing that one-on-one chance too. He puts that away and Burnley have to come out. Chances are we win 2 or 3 nil then and all of a sudden, the reds are back!!! It's all fuckin narrative and in realty we are a cunt hair away from winning games.

Yes I think the team are knackered. Yes there is something not right with the front 3. Or Trent. Or Robbo. Plus we are missing VVD. And Gomez. And Hendo is obviously not 100% fit. And the team misses the fans support. And everyone seems knackered. But this is only a crisis because of the hugely high standards we have set ourselves. A win or two against the likes of spurs and lecester and we are back in our groove.

If we don't win the league this year, Jurgen will use that disappointment to channel it into hunger to get it back.

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Old Yesterday, 09:47 AM   #602
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Donít think itís physical tiredness, more of a mental thing where weíre doubting a little bit what weíre doing and not doing the correct pass in certain situations.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by frank the tank View Post
The selection of Origi and Shaq last night was two fold. To give Bobby and Salah a rest if possible and also to shoot from the edge of the box. Origi took a few shots from outside the box. Just that most of them were straight at Pope. Total shite from Origi missing that one-on-one chance too. He puts that away and Burnley have to come out. Chances are we win 2 or 3 nil then and all of a sudden, the reds are back!!! It's all fuckin narrative and in realty we are a cunt hair away from winning games.

Yes I think the team are knackered. Yes there is something not right with the front 3. Or Trent. Or Robbo. Plus we are missing VVD. And Gomez. And Hendo is obviously not 100% fit. And the team misses the fans support. And everyone seems knackered. But this is only a crisis because of the hugely high standards we have set ourselves. A win or two against the likes of spurs and lecester and we are back in our groove.

If we don't win the league this year, Jurgen will use that disappointment to channel it into hunger to get it back.

I am
Agree with most of that with maybe the exception that the lads are knackered - Jurgen's said they've never been fitter, 100% and not tired at all. That might, of course, just be him protecting them from the media spotlight - but I do think heads go down, energy levels drop and no-one wants to take responsibility for the final shot when we're in this run of form. I don't think it's fitness levels, I think it's such a drop in confidence that the body language and 'zip' of players has just gone. We need to find it again.. and like you say, if we use this season to almost reset levels again, find a way to play against a low block and just focus on top four finish.. I'm sure we'll all be back stronger next year.
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Old Yesterday, 01:05 PM   #604
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Don’t think it’s physical tiredness, more of a mental thing where we’re doubting a little bit what we’re doing and not doing the correct pass in certain situations.
Yep and none more noticeable than Mane. He's not sure whether to take a player on, pass it to Robbo or run into the area. For one second he got courage of conviction and won us a very deadly freekick. A lot of quick moves died at his indecisive feet, not just yesterday.

We shall overcome this and it will just be a blip.
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM   #605
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Our form has been poor since the restart last season when the league was already won. Is it possible that after winning the Holy Grail the players don't have the same fire in them ??
If the current problems were a tactical issue you would think Klopp would have sorted it by now.
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Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM   #606
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I'd keep playing Origi through the middle so there is a focal point. He comes in from out of the cold and in 45 minutes he engineers himself two attempts on goal, both on target, both relatively easy to save, but on target. He then gets gifted an opportunity that a confident player sticks away, but I always think the ones where you get time to think are the hardest. Through on goal, hasn't scored for ages, team is struggling, he would have felt the pressure, he made decent contact and rattles the bar. I've seen rush, fowler, Owen, torres, mane and salah miss similar chances. It happens. But he was a goal threat. Bobby has gone 3 or 4 matches at times not even having a shot at goal. Zero goal threat. Owen used to say get it on target, keep getting into the positions and eventually it'll come. If you don't shoot you've no chance.

I know Origi isn't good enough long term, I'm far from his biggest fan. But he should get a run of a few games imo. Absolutely no point starting the usual 3 right now. He is what we have, let's use him.

Sunday is perfect to get his second consecutive start. No one expects us to win.

How about playing 2 up front? Maybe Origi and Mane or Salah alongside just to try a different tactic. Least we might have two players in the box for the barrage of crosses.

Just my thoughts.
good post

He should definitely start on Sunday.
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Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM   #607
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Our form has been poor since the restart last season when the league was already won. Is it possible that after winning the Holy Grail the players don't have the same fire in them ??
If the current problems were a tactical issue you would think Klopp would have sorted it by now.
Yes, it's important to note that this is not a 5 or 6 game issue, we haven't looked our flowing best with any consistency for 9 months, or about 7 of you exclude the suspended period. Obviously, this slump is exceptionally bad, but the idea of a return to our former gloriousness is just a win away seems pretty deluded in that context.
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Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM   #608
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Yes, it's important to note that this is not a 5 or 6 game issue, we haven't looked our flowing best with any consistency for 9 months, or about 7 of you exclude the suspended period. Obviously, this slump is exceptionally bad, but the idea of a return to our former gloriousness is just a win away seems pretty deluded in that context.
This is the worry - I had put it down to missing that edge post winning the league but the malaise has been there for a while. The thing is though last season we didnít play brilliantly all the time but we won (late goal, set piece....etc). We always seemed to find a way to grind it out. In addition to that we seemed to be able to lift it when it mattered - Chelsea, Ars, Leicester, Spurs and City this season were excellent performances against top sides.

The margins are so fine at this level - instead of the 2-1 win we are drawing 1-1, instead of 1-0 we are drawing 0-0 and so on.....Our process of playing still seems sound to me - we are getting into the positions we used to but the last pass or decision making is not what it was. This has afflicted most of our go to players and then factor in injuries, VAR, COVID, luck etc....all seems to be against us right now.

The players can do better, Klopp can do better but as important will be that things tend to balance out over a season. Our run of bad luck will end and maybe one goal can spark us back into life.

I have said Iíd give it a break until the Spurs game but I am too invested in it - hence me stupidity scanning social media and here today to see if we have signed Bobby Moore or Franz Beckenbaur I will pass on the United game though - itís too soon to go through it again
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #609
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You know the phrase Ďeverything falls into placeí, well this season has been the opposite
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Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM   #610
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This is the worry - I had put it down to missing that edge post winning the league but the malaise has been there for a while. The thing is though last season we didnít play brilliantly all the time but we won (late goal, set piece....etc). We always seemed to find a way to grind it out. In addition to that we seemed to be able to lift it when it mattered - Chelsea, Ars, Leicester, Spurs and City this season were excellent performances against top sides.

The margins are so fine at this level - instead of the 2-1 win we are drawing 1-1, instead of 1-0 we are drawing 0-0 and so on.....Our process of playing still seems sound to me - we are getting into the positions we used to but the last pass or decision making is not what it was. This has afflicted most of our go to players and then factor in injuries, VAR, COVID, luck etc....all seems to be against us right now.

The players can do better, Klopp can do better but as important will be that things tend to balance out over a season. Our run of bad luck will end and maybe one goal can spark us back into life.

I have said Iíd give it a break until the Spurs game but I am too invested in it - hence me stupidity scanning social media and here today to see if we have signed Bobby Moore or Franz Beckenbaur I will pass on the United game though - itís too soon to go through it again
Yes, a lot of wins last season were unimpressive grind out a 1-0 win types and when that works game after game everything seems fine but once it stops working and luck turns against you a whole host of issues that were being papered over come to the surface.
Our squad is obviously much, much better than current results indicate but there is clearly something seriously wrong and I can't figure out what it is.
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Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM   #611
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There are similarities with the situation Sheffield Utd are in. They won an awful lot of tight games last year and this year they're playing similar but they're on the wrong end of mostly closely fought affairs. Small margins.

We won a crazy amount of games last season but the football wasn't as dazzling as the season before. We ground out results despite playing poorly a lot of the time. You could say this lack of threat going forwards has been 18 months in the making.
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Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM   #612
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I think there are also lots of similarities with us and other teams defending the title. Particularly such a big one. Our players haven’t all become bad players, they are just not performing well. We can carry one or 2 under performing, not 7 or 8. I listened to Carra and Neville, and Neville actually spoke with more assurance than Carra on the life of champions.

Consider all of this AND being decimated by injury. We just aren’t playing with any consistency. The squad will require a bit of a refresh in the summer for sure. This season? I think we focus on top 4 now, and who knows removing the pressure of needing to win the league may remove some pressure.

We also have a decent draw in the CL and have had a strong tournament so far. Everything seems doom and gloom but not too much needs to change for things to improve. Getting Jota back would be huge, he was a live wire at the beginning of the season - playing without pressure and looking a threat.

This team has been so prolific, going 27 games unbeaten (winning 26) last season so they have earned a massive amount of credit. They deserve our patience.
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Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM   #613
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I wish we'd saved a few of last year's win for this year but still maintain that I'd have willingly taken this shit for winning the league last season.

We're a bit spoilt these days
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Old Yesterday, 06:57 PM   #614
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We miss the fans massively, I think it's hurt us more than any other side.
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Old Yesterday, 07:04 PM   #615
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We miss the fans massively, I think it's hurt us more than any other side.
Some teams such as West Ham/Everton, maybe even Utd to an extent benefit I think because their fans arenít there to get on the backs of the teams after 30 mins without a goal.
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Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM   #616
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Some teams such as West Ham/Everton, maybe even Utd to an extent benefit I think because their fans arenít there to get on the backs of the teams after 30 mins without a goal.
To be honest football misses fans, with the exception of a few clubs in the world (City for example) they could all argue that their need for fans is greater. Having no fans in theory should make it easier for bigger sides to win away but that hasnít been there with us......

We are all looking for reasons, excuses or someway to validate this season when we have been near perfect for 2 seasons. Itís a perfect storm of a shit show for us - serious injuries in the one area in the squad we couldnít compensate, Covid to many of our players, been on the wrong side of so many marginal VARtrocites, shocking refereeing even outside of VAR, players off form at the same time and luck. Luck is so unquantifiable but weíve been on the wrong end of the bounce of the ball so many times.

A lot of that will come right/even itself out and we are not as bad as weíve shown. I think the league is gone now (maybe not if we buy a CB) but I genuinely want us to focus on top 4......it would be a disaster not to qualify. The CL might be interesting if we had Jota, Naby and Matip fit and available for the rest of the season
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Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM   #617
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we can talk around it but we were built on

---------Ali,
TAA - Joe/Matip - VVD- robbo
FAB, Gin, Hendo
Mo, bobby, Mane,

This season we have been decimated by all sorts of shit & players playing out of position; you take Ali, VVD, Joe, Fab, Matip, Mo, Hendo even Jota, Thiago, Millie, Ox & Keita out of our options & of course we are going to suffer.

The shape is awful at present with midfielders playing in unfamiliar positions, the team constantly changing & not just one or two positions +3 different keepers, 7 different CB's, Gini overused to an extraordinary level; it is no wonder 1/2 way thru the season we appear, confused, devoid of ideas & mentally fucked.
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 PM   #618
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I reckon Hendo misses Sunday too
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM   #619
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yep, Milner, jones, ox i think on sunday
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 PM   #620
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When Ox gets the ball in the right position he looks great, even at times on Thursday, he plays with pace and always looks forward. It’s just that position is never on the right wing. Don’t understand why he is an option for right wing, it never works.
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Old Today, 02:16 AM   #621
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If he's not playing centrally then he shouldn't be playing.
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Old Today, 11:39 AM   #622
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If he's not playing centrally then he shouldn't be playing.


Like playing with 10 when he's playing out wide.
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Old Today, 11:49 AM   #623
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Yeah he's utterly useless out wide and he's not technically good enough to play out wide either, his first touch is so poor. He is quick and direct and that be very effective but he's just not a versatile player (I don't know why I thought he would be when he joined). That's not even mentioning his injury record & unfortunately he will be injured soon just like Matip. Honestly, I just cannot see him being here for much longer as we are not getting value for money.
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