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Old 27-09-19, 12:51 PM   #2241
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That is a brilliant and well considered article
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Old 27-09-19, 05:54 PM   #2242
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Keep digging Pep


Benjamin Mendy tweet row: Bernardo Silva an exceptional person, says Pep Guardiola - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49855441
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Old 27-09-19, 05:56 PM   #2243
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He is totally missing the point.

And if ever a group of supporters has discussed racism in football... then we are they.
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Old 27-09-19, 06:06 PM   #2244
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To be honest, he could do with going on the same course as the one Silva should be told to go on.

Miguel Delaney made a good point the other day in that countries in southern Europe have not historically had as much immigration when compared to, say the UK or France. So they've essentially not had to deal with and solve the problem of racial integration. This has lead ignorance across the board, and behaviour which to most people here would be classed as completely unacceptable. Be it through jokey banter, misplaced respect (monkey chants on the terraces) or whatever.

They're 30 plus years behind us on that journey.

Remember watching as recently as the 80s sitcoms such In Sickness & Health, Only Fools And Horses or Mind Your Language, or gollywogs on marmalade jars to see how far we have come (and there's a way to go yet).

So there's the context, but that's not an excuse.
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Old 27-09-19, 06:23 PM   #2245
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I was a kid in Scotland when Mark Walters signed for Rangers, I would have been about 12 and the racism was off the scale. I am fairly sure Mark Walters at that point was the only black player in the SPL. I recall hearing all of the jokes at Primary School, not really understanding what racism was, but knowing it wasn't right. When Rangers played Hearts I recall the amount of bananas being thrown on the pitch. It was not jokey banter it was malicious and I remember some kids thinking it was hilarious. I still recall hearing the jokes.

Actually, just found a clip.


And an article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42371953

There remains a massive amount of misunderstanding up here I'd say, but now at least most people are trying, I cant say it is any better than that.

Interestingly, my kids are growing up aware of racism, they watch Newsround at school and the incidents this season have been discussed. They just don't understand it on any level at that age, which is reassuring. And they are instantly involved in a far more multicultural society.
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Old 01-10-19, 07:50 PM   #2246
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Old 01-10-19, 08:32 PM   #2247
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The excuses are embarrassing.

As if we’ve not experienced in the past throughout Europe. At least in the UK we acknowledge we have a problem.
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Old 01-10-19, 10:33 PM   #2248
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"Normal, white skin"

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Old 01-10-19, 11:02 PM   #2249
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Old 19-10-19, 05:45 PM   #2250
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fa cup tie abandoned due to alleged racism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50111754
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Old 20-10-19, 04:03 PM   #2251
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Bristol City looking into alleged racist comments/chants from their own fans against Luton yesterday.

Not a great day yesterday for the English game, especially following the incidents in Bulgaria, not to mention the Kick It Out push this weekend.
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Old 20-10-19, 04:06 PM   #2252
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People just don't like being told what to do by the experts it seems
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Old 22-10-19, 11:43 AM   #2253
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Never the biggest fan of Evra (as he had more than a few of his dickhead moments), but he does come across well last night with re: Suarez, as does Carra in the main (though I think he may be being a wee bit economical with the whole 'I didn't know about the shirts').

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Old 22-10-19, 01:19 PM   #2254
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Bunch of cunts, the lot of em. Obviously Daily Mail Carra wouldn't want to upset The Jeebies right now, where he's got a cushty life as a pundit (and after the spitting incident obvs wants to make amends in the public eye) . But Evra is the biggest cunt ever and he will get to meet his maker when he dies, the despicable cunt. It was a Fergieled skirmish to derail us. It was obvious with the various language experts that the whole thing was a matter of miscommunication, but every news outlet in this racist news outlet country couldn't wait to sell more papers and cry uproar. Its a fucking stain that grinds my gears even now, still does. That was really when my yea whatever attitude towards Utd turned to venom.
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Old 22-10-19, 01:24 PM   #2255
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Did you watch the video? Even in that Evra is saying that just because its a racist word, doesnt make him a racist.

Nuance was totally lost on this incident IMO.
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Old 22-10-19, 01:50 PM   #2256
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Did you watch the video? Even in that Evra is saying that just because its a racist word, doesnt make him a racist.

Nuance was totally lost on this incident IMO.
Hi Alex, I started watching the video but didn't bother. Of course nuances were lost, I'm referring to the incident and the massive witch hunt at the time. It was imperial at the time and fucked me off soooo badly. I'm a language expert in dialects, cultural nuances etc. and it really boiled my piss at the time. But anyways, whatevs, I shall continue to never listen to anything Evra ever says, just like I pretty much tend to ignore everything that Carra says any more. Just wanted to vent my anger, as many on here have been trying to avoid the discussion and that fucks me off too and I, funnily enough, have been called a racist nazi at the age of 7,so I have a bit more rage towards racist flamboyant judgement (by funnily enough always white males)
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Old 22-10-19, 03:11 PM   #2257
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Evra is a snake, he is a prick of the highest order ... he is the same twat who celbrated right in front of Suarez, he made like he was moving his hand away for the hand shake and when Suarez saw it he pulled away, he owned Suarez time and time again

Suarez called him a little black girl, its prejorative but its not racist, he claimed he called him the N word, he did not, he called nigreta which basically is spanish for black, he was trying to wind him up and Evra took it and used it against him

Hes a twat of the highest order, cant stand him, he is fooling people

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Old 22-10-19, 03:14 PM   #2258
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Evra is a snake, he is a prick of the highest order ... he is the same twat who celbrated right in front of Suarez, he made like he was moving his hand away for the hand shake and when Suarez saw it he pulled away, he owned Suarez time and time again

Suarez called him a little black girl, its prejorative but its not racist, he claimed he called him the N word, he did not, he called nigreta which basically is spanish for black, he was trying to wind him up and Evra took it and used it against him

Hes a twat of the highest order, cant stand him, he is fooling people

PATRICE EVRA TALKS ABOUT HIS SUSPENSION | P.EVRA | P.EVRA KICKS THE FAN | - YouTube
Fully agree. He's a fucking bell of the highest order. We were made to walk along to do the handshake instead them cunts. It was all well planned with him dropping his hand as the icing on the cake
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Old 22-10-19, 03:19 PM   #2259
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They fucking played us and it was masterminded by that horrible cunt Ferguson, he is crafty sleeven. Every step of the way those arseholes owned us, it was like that Toffee prick claiming Bobby called him the N word ... were is that prick now ? I think his own people did not want anything to do with him after that

Cultural Imperialism at its worse we dont care how you use that word in your language you are in England now and it means that here .... Nonsense . proper witch hunt that was
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Old 22-10-19, 03:44 PM   #2260
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Do we really need to go through this again?
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Old 22-10-19, 03:48 PM   #2261
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Do we really need to go through this again?
Its not compulsory to participate dom
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Old 22-10-19, 03:51 PM   #2262
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Its not compulsory to participate dom
True.

What I will say that is that nobody came out of that saga looking good, and if you want to continue to talk about it by defending Suarez and attacking everyone else with your conspiracy theories, you'll continue very much on that trajectory.

Ultimately, you are using a thread about racism to defend someone who was found to be guilty of racist / discriminatory behaviour (irrespective of whether it was criminal prosecution or not) and you continue attacking the victim.

It's up to you of course - it ain't a good look, you can decide whether to wear it.

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Old 22-10-19, 03:59 PM   #2263
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True.

What I will say that is that nobody came out of that saga looking good, and if you want to continue to talk about it by defending Suarez and attacking everyone else with your conspiracy theories, you'll continue very much on that trajectory.

It's up to you of course - it ain't a good look, you can decide whether to wear it.

I didnt defend Suarez. I agreed it was a set up. Yes that was exactly what it was, a set up. The home team always walks the handshake line. I havent checked, but I am damn sure that vera normally stood in a different place in the handshake line up and not last.

As brilliant a footballer has been, he is undoubtably a conniving cunt. But he was well and truly fucked over by the purple nosed cunt and vera

Bit of a low blow playing the racist card on me fella!
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Old 22-10-19, 04:00 PM   #2264
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I meant the collective *you*

Anyway, I'm out.
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Old 22-10-19, 04:04 PM   #2265
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Do we really need to go through this again?
No one is forcing you to participate.

They had language experts from the University of somewhere up north discussion the negro/negrito comment, which is also culturally and linguistically differently used in South America. Yet is was ignored.

There are many different wordings in different languages that have ambiguous meanings when used in a pally, banter way, such as "Dicker" (fatty) in German, (Eyup ya slag) (obviously not referring to a demeaning prostitute existence), "Eh du Schwuchtel" (Oi ya poofter) etc. etc.

But that's not really the issue here. The issue here was and is that it was word against word, the language barrier and linguistic nuances were not taken into account although they were confirmed in detail by academic, independent experts, and the witch hunt was on. He received an extremely disproportionate ban considering the "beyond reasonable doubt" aspect that wasn't there,and all the high and mighty white male press, FA and fans of all teams (lager loutish fat White British males) brigade had an absolute field day on their high horses which made it a fucking ugly spectacle.

That's what's most disappointing about it all, the moral stance being taken "Liverpool players condone a convicted racist" that was driven by the white male press, spilled onto the public streets and was lapped up by the majority of the country - which looking at the current Brexit debacle doesn't paint it in the most sophisticated cultural diversity terms - that drove an excessive amount of hate towards us, the team, the city in general. He couldn't even be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" and considering the linguistic evidence to have meant it in that way. But the whole club was hung out to dry, and I'm quite certain Hadd it not been Liverpool, the consequences would not have been as severe as they were.

Anyways, what the fuck ever. Evra is a massive cunt, will always be a cunt, just as United are a classless cunt of a club and deserve all the bad karma they're getting now for decades of cunt.
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Old 22-10-19, 04:05 PM   #2266
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I meant the collective *you*

Anyway, I'm out.
Which ‘you’ are referring too? As you fingered me thrice
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Old 22-10-19, 04:20 PM   #2267
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I meant the collective *you*

Anyway, I'm out.
Ok thanks for playing Dom
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Old 22-10-19, 04:23 PM   #2268
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True.

What I will say that is that nobody came out of that saga looking good, and if you want to continue to talk about it by defending Suarez and attacking everyone else with your conspiracy theories, you'll continue very much on that trajectory.

Ultimately, you are using a thread about racism to defend someone who was found to be guilty of racist / discriminatory behaviour (irrespective of whether it was criminal prosecution or not) and you continue attacking the victim.

It's up to you of course - it ain't a good look, you can decide whether to wear it.

He is not racist and people who call him such are culturally illiterate. Here is a definition from urban dictionary for your reference

Negrita
Spanish word for black girl (negra), used as a term of endearment or just descriptive without being offensive...adding ita/ito to the end of a word is endearing ie. abuelito/a bebito/a, besito...

Some English speakers and Americans would like to make this into an offensive word...see the definitions for negrito but negrito/a is not offensive or racist despite sounding like an English word that is offensive. In fact using negrita is like saying cute little black girl not exact translation.
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Old 22-10-19, 04:27 PM   #2269
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He is many but he is not a fucking racist ... Here is a fucking song for you ... perhaps we should burn out Rollin stones records too

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Old 23-10-19, 10:57 AM   #2270
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No one is forcing you to participate.

They had language experts from the University of somewhere up north discussion the negro/negrito comment, which is also culturally and linguistically differently used in South America. Yet is was ignored.

There are many different wordings in different languages that have ambiguous meanings when used in a pally, banter way, such as "Dicker" (fatty) in German, (Eyup ya slag) (obviously not referring to a demeaning prostitute existence), "Eh du Schwuchtel" (Oi ya poofter) etc. etc.

But that's not really the issue here. The issue here was and is that it was word against word, the language barrier and linguistic nuances were not taken into account although they were confirmed in detail by academic, independent experts, and the witch hunt was on. He received an extremely disproportionate ban considering the "beyond reasonable doubt" aspect that wasn't there,and all the high and mighty white male press, FA and fans of all teams (lager loutish fat White British males) brigade had an absolute field day on their high horses which made it a fucking ugly spectacle.

That's what's most disappointing about it all, the moral stance being taken "Liverpool players condone a convicted racist" that was driven by the white male press, spilled onto the public streets and was lapped up by the majority of the country - which looking at the current Brexit debacle doesn't paint it in the most sophisticated cultural diversity terms - that drove an excessive amount of hate towards us, the team, the city in general. He couldn't even be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" and considering the linguistic evidence to have meant it in that way. But the whole club was hung out to dry, and I'm quite certain Hadd it not been Liverpool, the consequences would not have been as severe as they were.

Anyways, what the fuck ever. Evra is a massive cunt, will always be a cunt, just as United are a classless cunt of a club and deserve all the bad karma they're getting now for decades of cunt.


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Old 23-10-19, 10:58 AM   #2271
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Which ‘you’ are referring too? As you fingered me thrice
Jesus..........was it consensual??
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Old 24-10-19, 10:25 AM   #2272
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a9168816.html

Quote:
Divock Origi banner: Forget the result in Genk – last night was another bleak night for Liverpool Football Club

Every week seems to bring a new low in the legitimising of racism in everyday life. Football, as the biggest expression of working-class culture in Britain, plays a huge part in this normalisation of hatred.

Last night in Genk a banner in the Liverpool end featured a caricature of Divock Origi with a huge penis. It was taken down before the match and the club were rightly furious. The response on social media by too many supporters was to suggest that it was merely a play on the striker’s name. The very idea is appalling.

One of the underpinning features of racism is a fear of black men’s sexuality. It was a huge factor in the wave of lynchings that swept through America after the Civil War and way into the 20th century. The NAACP, one of the most significant organisations in the battle for civil rights in the US and an important movement for social justice to this day, says, “Whites started lynching because they felt it was necessary to protect white women.”

Black men are frequently sexualised in an animalistic manner. There is a deep, ingrained fear in bigots that they will “corrupt” the “white race” through miscegenation. It is not about rape or assault. Emmett Till, a 14-year-old, was hanged by a mob in Mississippi in 1955 for supposedly whistling at a white woman. The suggestion that black men have a dangerous sexuality has been one of the most corrosive components in race relations. It is a deep, dangerous notion that is lodged in the subconscious of many people. Those who seek to excuse it betray their innate racism.

There will be plenty of people who claim that it is a “positive stereotype.” "Wouldn’t we all love a big penis?" they will ask, as if that legitimises the notion. That is just a smokescreen for bigotry. It’s hard to imagine a white player having his manhood depicted in such a way.

The ‘play on words’ theory is also disturbing. It is not rational to think ‘big cock’ when you hear the name Divock. That should be enough to alert the authorities. There are some worrying antecedents from the past, though.

Liverpool supporters rightly laud John Barnes for the way he faced down the haters and his continuing outspokenness on the subject of racism. Yet some of us were uncomfortable with the nickname given to Barnes when he joined the club in 1987. He was referred to as ‘Digger,’ after a character with the same surname in Dallas, the glossy soap opera. There was always a winking, smartarsedness about the use of the moniker. Everyone was aware of its closeness to the N-word and many were amused by the rhyme. This suggestion will cause howls of outrage but it is nonetheless true. It does not matter that Barnes embraced the nickname; like it or not, there was a provocative element to it.

The Origi banner is indefensible in the same way that Luis Suarez’s treatment of Patrice Evra was outrageously unjustified. Yet some supporters on social media sought to deny the offence and dissemble the reality of the insult. In a week where Jamie Carragher admirable apologised to Evra, the banner is another blow to the reputation of Liverpool supporters. It would be wrong to tar an entire fanbase with the racist brush but it is another worrying sign that insidious currents are at work in football and society.

Liverpool’s support is generally left-wing and inclusive but over the past two years more and more reports have emerged from fans from ethnic minority backgrounds saying that they have been abused because of their race. The club have tried their best to eliminate the wrongdoers but the creeping unpleasantness reflects the growing division in everyday life.

The banner was another depressing moment for a sport that should be uplifting. Ability on the pitch transcends race, religion and sexuality. The way the Kop have embraced Mo Salah and Sadio Mane as Muslims is credit to the supporters. But the Origi flag - and the backing of Suarez - causes one to wonder whether the love for Salah and Mane is real or just because the Islamic players wear the red shirt. Is it really an example of inclusion or just a function of football fanaticism, in the same way that the obsessive urge to justify Suarez’s actions came through red-tinted glasses?

Forget the result in Genk. Last night was another bleak night for Liverpool Football Club.
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Old 24-10-19, 10:58 AM   #2273
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Things like this should be teaching moments and used as examples where people have fucked up and shouldn't do the same again.

Id wager that the lad who did it just thought he was having fun. Its a Whatsapp meme that has been sent to me more times than I care to remember.

As long as we accept it for what it is, bigotry. If we as fans all start lashing out and saying people cannot take a joke. Then we've learnt nothing.
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Old 24-10-19, 11:02 AM   #2274
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A thought provoking article.

Particularly given the true fact that we did all attempt to square away the Suarez incident which was undeniably due to his importance to the club.

We can only learn I suppose. The banner was shocking, but I am 100% sure many people will not see the issue. This article clears all of that up, and hopefully helps educate.
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Old 24-10-19, 12:10 PM   #2275
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One thing we can all agree on. Thats one hell of a schlong
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Old 24-10-19, 12:49 PM   #2276
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One thing we can all agree on. Thats one hell of a schlong
It would help explain how Divock sometimes can't get his shot away too.

Nobody has asked about who took the photo of Divock. It looked like he was posing for that photo
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Old 24-10-19, 01:10 PM   #2277
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One thing we can all agree on. Thats one hell of a schlong
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It would help explain how Divock sometimes can't get his shot away too.

Nobody has asked about who took the photo of Divock. It looked like he was posing for that photo
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Old 24-10-19, 01:12 PM   #2278
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It explains his impressive no hands leaning ability.
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Old 24-10-19, 01:13 PM   #2279
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A thought provoking article.

Particularly given the true fact that we did all attempt to square away the Suarez incident which was undeniably due to his importance to the club.

We can only learn I suppose. The banner was shocking, but I am 100% sure many people will not see the issue. This article clears all of that up, and hopefully helps educate.
This incident with Origi is clearly racist, the people who made that banner would be shocked and would protest their innocence but it is racist. Suarez calling Patrice Evra a little black girl is prejorative ... there is a fucking massive difference ... just because a word sounds like a bad word, that does not make the word bad.

Its cultural ignorance and arrogance

Is the rollin stones song posted above Racists ?

Negrita is a term of endearment ... Suarez was winding him up ... he was calling him his little sweet girl ....Negrita is never used with racist intent and it is not a racist word .. its still been used today over and over again by people of all colours in non english speaking countries with zero problems and zero people claiming its racist
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Last edited by Nicey; 24-10-19 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 24-10-19, 01:17 PM   #2280
fah-q
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I've often thought about the nickname that Barnes had. I remember someone from the club once saying it was because his initials are JCB.

Is it just a bit of a retconning for a bit of slightly racist banter though? Not sure we could ever know that though.
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