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Old 30-11-20, 10:28 PM   #7961
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Losing Allison would have been infinitely worse- excluding penalties, we conceded 4 goals in the 9 games that VVD missed- west ham, city and 2 against Atalanta... we conceded 9 goals in the 3 games that Allison missed!

It’s a looong road ahead, but I think we’ve coped really well without VVD and Gomez so far.
Reports say he's got the Rona..
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Old 30-11-20, 10:53 PM   #7962
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Losing Allison would have been infinitely worse- excluding penalties, we conceded 4 goals in the 9 games that VVD missed- west ham, city and 2 against Atalanta... we conceded 9 goals in the 3 games that Allison missed!

It’s a looong road ahead, but I think we’ve coped really well without VVD and Gomez so far.
In terms of balance to squad - not being able to "missed" or having adequate cover..........no VVD=

Overplaying Gomez - injured
Overplaying Matip - Injured
Overplaying Fab (moved to CB) - Injured
Overplaying Midfielders to compensate for Fab - Naby, Hendo, Milner all injured

Of course Thiago missing also doesn't help but most stems from VVD not being available
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Old 01-12-20, 01:49 AM   #7963
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In terms of balance to squad - not being able to "missed" or having adequate cover..........no VVD=

Overplaying Gomez - injured
Overplaying Matip - Injured
Overplaying Fab (moved to CB) - Injured
Overplaying Midfielders to compensate for Fab - Naby, Hendo, Milner all injured

Of course Thiago missing also doesn't help but most stems from VVD not being available

In the 2 league games games that Allison was out we dropped 5 points...

In the 5 league games that ALL those players were out, we dropped 4...

Also, think you are stretching a bit saying that VVD being out caused all those injuries...
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Old 01-12-20, 02:30 AM   #7964
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Ali is by far our most important player. When he isn't there, we are fucked.

If he wasn't out v Atletico last year, we'd have been in the CL semis.
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Old 01-12-20, 07:14 AM   #7965
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In the 2 league games games that Allison was out we dropped 5 points...

In the 5 league games that ALL those players were out, we dropped 4...

Also, think you are stretching a bit saying that VVD being out caused all those injuries...
I think VVD being out caused a snowball effect to over play others and it cascaded from there. I do agree that Ali being out has a bigger impact though.......Adrien is nowhere near the levels on the back ups to VVD
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Old 17-12-20, 11:12 PM   #7966
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Thought Hansi was a shoe in tbh



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Old 06-01-21, 10:21 AM   #7967
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Jurgen is going to start earning his money now. He has a mini slump to correct, he has a couple of players whose heads need focusing and he needs a workable solution for the defense for the run in. Hopefully, he will have the confidence and swagger back soon.
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Old 06-01-21, 10:41 AM   #7968
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We've had two mini slumps in recent memory. They have usually been around Feb (?). I still don't see any cause for concern at all. There is nothing unusual about anything that has happened the past 3 games. With a bit more luck, we would have scraped a couple of wins and a draw.
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Old 06-01-21, 10:49 AM   #7969
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Jurgen is going to start earning his money now. He has a mini slump to correct, he has a couple of players whose heads need focusing and he needs a workable solution for the defense for the run in. Hopefully, he will have the confidence and swagger back soon.
The decision about who plays CB with Fabinho in the Man Utd game is going to be huge, hopefully Matip is back, fit and able to play to his normal level. But it is still questionable whether he will be available.

If Matip isn't available does he go with Henderson as he did against Southampton and lose him from the midfield? Or go with one of the younger less experienced guys who are CB's by trade, and if so does he go with Williams or Phillips?
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Old 06-01-21, 10:55 AM   #7970
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i think he was playing Henderson in defense to give him some experience playing next to Fabinho - with the united game in mind. That is the only explanation I can see because Williams and Phillips were both on the bench and therefore available to play.

Gini and Thiago will play fine together. It is the other position in midfield that he needs to really think about for the United game. Oxlade did two thirds of fuck all against Southampton. Not sure he will be the right guy to play v United.

Shaqiri didn't exactly stake his claim either.

Not sure he will start with Milner because Milner probably won't last the full game against United.

Perhaps Minamino behind the front 3???
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Old 06-01-21, 12:00 PM   #7971
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i think he was playing Henderson in defense to give him some experience playing next to Fabinho - with the united game in mind. That is the only explanation I can see because Williams and Phillips were both on the bench and therefore available to play.

Gini and Thiago will play fine together. It is the other position in midfield that he needs to really think about for the United game. Oxlade did two thirds of fuck all against Southampton. Not sure he will be the right guy to play v United.

Shaqiri didn't exactly stake his claim either.

Not sure he will start with Milner because Milner probably won't last the full game against United.

Perhaps Minamino behind the front 3???
That was my thought too at the start of the game, not really sure how well it worked for the team overall. I agree that Gini and Thiago are fine as 2 of a midfield three but I think in an ideal world particularly against one of the top sides you would probably want Henderson or Fabinho in there as the third CM. If they are both playing CB then obviously that doesn't happen. The question for me is really does a midfield 3 of Henderson, Gini, Thiago and a CB pairing of Fabinho and Williams/Phillips give us a better balance than a CB pairing of Fabinho and Henderson, with a midfield of Gini, Thiago and someone else?
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Old 06-01-21, 01:43 PM   #7972
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If Matip is not fit (which I won't hold my breath for) then we are stuck between a rock and a hard place vs United. Either play Hendo & Fab at CB and lose that drive and security in midfield or play one of the young lads beside Fab and Hendo back in midfield but then run the risk of the young lad getting destroyed vs the pace of United. The problem with Philips or Williams is that neither or them are quick and imo is Joel is not fit, Hendo will be at CB. We really need Matip back ffs, it's a huge game and a huge game psychologically.

What I will say is that Thiago won't play that poorly again and it was a mistake to play Ox and Thiago in the same midfield as both are nowhere near match fit and it showed. I doubt Trent will ever play as poorly as that again even if his general performances this season have fallen off a cliff & at some stage Mane & Mo will kick in again.

Bit of a double edged sword for Klopp to contend with, we have just been so unlucky this season and we can all see that apart from a few game here and there, the balance of the team is off.
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Old 06-01-21, 01:52 PM   #7973
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If Matip is not fit (which I won't hold my breath for) then we are stuck between a rock and a hard place vs United. Either play Hendo & Fab at CB and lose that drive and security in midfield or play one of the young lads beside Fab and Hendo back in midfield but then run the risk of the young lad getting destroyed vs the pace of United. The problem with Philips or Williams is that neither or them are quick and imo is Joel is not fit, Hendo will be at CB. We really need Matip back ffs, it's a huge game and a huge game psychologically.

What I will say is that Thiago won't play that poorly again and it was a mistake to play Ox and Thiago in the same midfield as both are nowhere near match fit and it showed. I doubt Trent will ever play as poorly as that again even if his general performances this season have fallen off a cliff & at some stage Mane & Mo will kick in again.

Bit of a double edged sword for Klopp to contend with, we have just been so unlucky this season and we can all see that apart from a few game here and there, the balance of the team is off.
Some good points... personally, I think we'd be better with one of the young guns partnering Fab as CB and bring Hendo back into the middle of the park - especially against United. I think Thiago lost his way in the last game due to fitness but also - and more importantly - because he didn't have Hendo doing the grunt work and freeing him up to make those creative, defence-splitting passes... We'll get more from the front three with a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Gini too.. and won't be as reliant on (aimless) crosses into the box by TAA and Robbo...
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Old 06-01-21, 01:55 PM   #7974
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:18 PM   #7975
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Some good points... personally, I think we'd be better with one of the young guns partnering Fab as CB and bring Hendo back into the middle of the park - especially against United. I think Thiago lost his way in the last game due to fitness but also - and more importantly - because he didn't have Hendo doing the grunt work and freeing him up to make those creative, defence-splitting passes... We'll get more from the front three with a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Gini too.. and won't be as reliant on (aimless) crosses into the box by TAA and Robbo...
it's more balanced having Hendo back in that midfield. Him and Gini doing the work and Thiago applying the craft which we desperately need in central areas. Matip back would solve the issue but we just can't rely on that happening. The choice now is who do you choose Williams or Philips?
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Old 06-01-21, 02:19 PM   #7976
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I agree I think I would play Henderson in midfield and one of Williams or Phillips at CB. I feel that regardless of how good the guys in midfield are we need to have a Henderson or Fabinho type player in there (particularly for the big games). On paper Gini, Thiago and Jones/Ox looks decent but it's not got the right balance, I would also worry about the lack of game time that Thiago and Ox have had recently. Henderson in midfield offers protection to the back line and even if the CB pairing itself is slightly weaker as a whole I think it makes us a stronger team, than playing both him and Fabinho at CB, with less protection.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:19 PM   #7977
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Could consider Milner as CB?
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Old 06-01-21, 02:21 PM   #7978
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
with Hendo, Gini and Thiago in there you would like to think that's 3 players who can press and challenge for possession.

Fabinho could very well provide that long accurate ball to the front lads, although we haven't really seen that yet from him at CB but we just miss VVD so much, as would any team. Gigantic loss for our defence, still annoys me.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:21 PM   #7979
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Could consider Milner as CB?
No, play a CB there.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:26 PM   #7980
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Could consider Milner as CB?
I think he is probably a bit too short, I think he's only about 5'9", probably why Henderson was in there ahead of him
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Old 06-01-21, 02:29 PM   #7981
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Millie played there in a cup game last season (or yr before) & was a nightmare
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Old 06-01-21, 03:37 PM   #7982
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
Yep, similar to Spurs when Rhys played, strong midfield, played well and won the game.

Fwiw I think Matip will make it.
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Old 21-01-21, 11:47 PM   #7983
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Something isn't right.

Picked a pointless argument with that bt interviewer. He was moaning about 5 subs but then went on to make none against city. Played first teamers in a dead rubber. Managed to fuck salah off by giving trent the armband. Kept playing the front 3 without a break. Plays taki away to Palace who scores the opening goal and then he's banished to sit on the bench for 4 successive games. I think he's distracted. He's constantly on at the officials, spikey when interviewed. I think he's as mentally fucked as the players and must be equally responsible for the poor form. I don't think he knows how to turn it around. I'm not saying he won't, I just don't think right now he has the answers.

I hope it doesn't end like dortmund. He deserves so much more and I want to see him celebrating in front of the fans again. Come on Jurgen.
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Old 22-01-21, 09:57 AM   #7984
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Something isn't right.

Picked a pointless argument with that bt interviewer. He was moaning about 5 subs but then went on to make none against city. Played first teamers in a dead rubber. Managed to fuck salah off by giving trent the armband. Kept playing the front 3 without a break. Plays taki away to Palace who scores the opening goal and then he's banished to sit on the bench for 4 successive games. I think he's distracted. He's constantly on at the officials, spikey when interviewed. I think he's as mentally fucked as the players and must be equally responsible for the poor form. I don't think he knows how to turn it around. I'm not saying he won't, I just don't think right now he has the answers.

I hope it doesn't end like dortmund. He deserves so much more and I want to see him celebrating in front of the fans again. Come on Jurgen.
I'm with you here. For a long time now the positivity of the team has come from Klopps effervescent personality and infectious positivity. This year he has been frustrating, grumpy, argumentative and it shows in the team. I definitely think whereas his brand is positive thinking, this year it must be hard for them to not feel like everything is against them, and right now he doesnt have an answer for turning that around. I think the only answer is to take a breather, clear the air and then move on, together.
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Old 22-01-21, 09:58 AM   #7985
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Old 22-01-21, 10:51 AM   #7986
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I bet they aren't hugging anymore
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Old 22-01-21, 12:15 PM   #7987
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He could do with a few weeks off back in Germany couldn't he - but just not possible. Or is it? Much better than him quitting completely, either during or at the end of the season.

The lack of fans was always going to affect us more than some (most) of the other clubs as the bond is so important - especially for him. Say that publically and you'll get trashed but it's true so fuck it.
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Old 22-01-21, 12:19 PM   #7988
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I blame the new training complex in Kirby, we've been shit since we moved there from Melwood and that bloke on the gate has gone.
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Old 22-01-21, 12:50 PM   #7989
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He could do with a few weeks off back in Germany couldn't he - but just not possible. Or is it? Much better than him quitting completely, either during or at the end of the season.

The lack of fans was always going to affect us more than some (most) of the other clubs as the bond is so important - especially for him. Say that publically and you'll get trashed but it's true so fuck it.
Wonder if City even know fans have been banned?
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Old 22-01-21, 04:19 PM   #7990
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For a long time now the positivity of the team has come from Klopps effervescent personality and infectious positivity. This year he has been frustrating, grumpy, argumentative and it shows in the team.
Like most of us, the lockdown blues. This season was going to be a difficult one anyway; defending/attacking the title. Add to that: (a) Covid and lockdowns, (b) no money to do the reshaping he wanted to do, (c) no real close season in which to develop the team, (d) no time on the training field, (e) injuries and (f) too many games to play the pressing syle we are built to play. We are in one of those "god knows how this'll end but just hang on and wait for it to end" seasons. As long as not too much gets badly damaged/falls permanently off the perch, this won't matter in the longer run.

And remember, this is what it feels like most of the time to be an Everton fan.
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Old 22-01-21, 04:23 PM   #7991
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Like most of us, the lockdown blues. This season was going to be a difficult one anyway; defending/attacking the title. Add to that: (a) Covid and lockdowns, (b) no money to do the reshaping he wanted to do, (c) no real close season in which to develop the team, (d) no time on the training field, (e) injuries and (f) too many games to play the pressing syle we are built to play. We are in one of those "god knows how this'll end but just hang on and wait for it to end" seasons. As long as not too much gets badly damaged/falls permanently off the perch, this won't matter in the longer run.

And remember, this is what it feels like most of the time to be an Everton fan.
Thiago and Jota were significant signings for us
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Old 22-01-21, 04:33 PM   #7992
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No Klopp hugs.

Don’t underestimate the klopp hugs.
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Old 22-01-21, 04:59 PM   #7993
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Old 22-01-21, 05:03 PM   #7994
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Listening to Klopps interviews last night, he said physically the lads aren't weren't tired as they had a nice rest, so I can only I think we were lazy which I do believe we have been this season in alot of games. He also mentioned decision making and that for me apart from the injuries is the main thing that has gone wrong. So many opportunities with the ball in great positions and so often the wrong ball is played, or the ball isn't played, or the ball is under or over hit or the cross is hitting the first man or the movement is not there to receive the ball. In possession though it's like a wave of over thinking has gotten into the lads and all the freedom and spontaneous free flowing football has been sucked out of them and we look so rigid and predictable.
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Old 22-01-21, 05:10 PM   #7995
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...Decision making ... that for me apart from the injuries is the main thing that has gone wrong. So many opportunities with the ball in great positions and so often the wrong ball is played, or the ball isn't played, or the ball is under or over hit or the cross is hitting the first man or the movement is not there to receive the ball. In possession though it's like a wave of over thinking has gotten into the lads and all the freedom and spontaneous free flowing football has been sucked out of them and we look so rigid and predictable.
It must be tough though. All but Man City seem to put ten men behind the ball and wait. Ironically, in the first half Burnley were more open than most. people have said we are missing VVD, but actually I think last night we missed hin in the opposition penalty area.
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Old 22-01-21, 07:16 PM   #7996
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It must be tough though. All but Man City seem to put ten men behind the ball and wait.
The problem with that is a lot of these teams end up with the better chances of the match as well. Whilst I think this is causing us a problem, teams wil also be sitting back against an in form Utd and City. I'm sure that all these smaller clubs don't go gung ho against the other clubs then all pile into their penalty area for us?

There's a problem, teams may be defensive against us, but this isn't unique to us. City are dealing with it, so are Utd so the problem is with our personnel or with Klopps tactics. Does he have a plan B? Is the balance of the squad poor, do we have a far weaker squad than we thought?

We're in freefall now, but we've been shit for ages. Top of a very different league campaign until recently, but whilst other sides have got it together recently, we've become worse. Even with a full squad we were battered by Villa. Something is massively wrong.
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Old 22-01-21, 07:40 PM   #7997
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Other teams defend deep against city and utd. Difference is they will shoot from outside the area and with accuracy. Pogba for example and Fernandes even Rashford. City are going to miss de Byrne, it's looking like the perfect storm for utd at the moment.
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Old 22-01-21, 11:39 PM   #7998
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Old 22-01-21, 11:47 PM   #7999
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Clearly fsg dont care about winning the league this season because that's going to be the cost. After all he's done for the club, a fucking CB isn't too much of an ask.
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Old 22-01-21, 11:57 PM   #8000
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It’s obvious there is a difference in views between Klopp and FSG. Both parties need to navigate this carefully because it will only end one way. From the amount of cash fsg stand to make (eventually) and with both our first team CBs out with long term injuries, Klopp is not asking for much really. Will be interesting to see how this develops.
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Last edited by kingfunk; 23-01-21 at 12:00 AM.
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