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Old 14-01-20, 12:43 PM   #6281
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I don't think Lewin is shite, works hard, strong and good in the air but he is nowhere near the level of the others. Rashford and Vardy up top would be tough for any defence to handle. The way Ings is playing, he should ahead of Lewin in the running. England have an abundance of talent to choose from.. best shape they've been in decades imo.
Hes nowhere near good enough to be playing for Everton nevermind England
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Old 14-01-20, 01:21 PM   #6282
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And Trent Alexander-Arnold!
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Old 15-01-20, 12:56 AM   #6283
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I never said just strikers did i? But as far as attacking options go they are stacked. Kane, Rashford, Ings maybe Vardy........ Sancho, Sterling, Alli, Maddison, Abraham, Mount, Foden. Fantastic attacking options.

Giroud can't run and is being offloaded by Chelsea, Dembele hasn't really done much at all for Barca & Draxler has done fuck all in years.
It did seem like you were referring to just strikers tbh. But in honesty, even if you weren't, we ought all be clear the England squad more broadly is largely dogshit
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Old 15-01-20, 08:18 AM   #6284
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It did seem like you were referring to just strikers tbh. But in honesty, even if you weren't, we ought all be clear the England squad more broadly is largely dogshit
Yeah none of that is true to be fair. I said England have an abundance of talent and are in the best shape they've been in years. I can't get more general than that really.

As regards their dogshit squad:

Kane, Rashford, Alli, Maddison, Henderson, Sterling, Sancho, Ox, Trent, Chilwell, Gomez would be their best players.

Pope, Pickford, Henderson, Grealish, Maguire, AWB, Stones, Walker, Winks, Wilson, Dier, Shaw, Abraham, Trippier, Barkley, Mings, Keane would be their second tier.

Abraham, Foden, Mount, Hudson, Tomori are some of the young talents.

For such a young squad they have the best right back in the world in Trent, one of the best strikers in the world in Kane, one of the best attacking players in the world in Sterling, one of the most sought after youngsters in the world in Sancho, one of the most on form strikers in Rashford & one of the most in form CB's in Gomez this season. Oh and Henderson who is better than every other English player above as his illustrious award yesterday suggests. Yeah I reckon they are looking alright
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Old 15-01-20, 09:59 AM   #6285
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That young squad is about 75% hype.
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Old 15-01-20, 10:10 AM   #6286
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That young squad is about 75% hype.


Like the old England squads but without the trophy winning experience the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd players were winning back then.

Who knows, maybe that will help them?

Kane is a flat track bully. When the going gets tough he’s got nothing. You could argue the same of Sterling.
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Old 15-01-20, 10:54 AM   #6287
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That young squad is about 75% hype.
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Old 15-01-20, 12:49 PM   #6288
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Old 15-01-20, 12:55 PM   #6289
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I still think they'll win Euro 2020.
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Old 15-01-20, 05:06 PM   #6290
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That young squad is about 75% hype.
So Trent isn't the best RB in the world? Kane isn't one of the best strikers in the world? Sterling isn't one of the best attacking players in the world? Sancho isn't one of the most sought after young players in the world? Players like Gomez, Maddison and Rashford potential superstars.

It wouldn't make a difference whether the current squad is talented or not.. the media would hype it up anyways so who cares. In this current situation this England side clearly has a squad packed with quality and most of these players are still young and are playing in the best and toughest league in the world.
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Old 15-01-20, 05:17 PM   #6291
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Like the old England squads but without the trophy winning experience the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd players were winning back then.

Who knows, maybe that will help them?

Kane is a flat track bully. When the going gets tough he’s got nothing. You could argue the same of Sterling.
Most strikers are flat track bullies, how do you think Messi, Ronnie, Lewandowski, Aguero, Mbappe etc have the numbers they do... most of those are racked up vs fodder. Of course they score against good teams too as does Kane but a majority of the numbers are made up of goals vs shit. Still wins their team points and we don't complain when Sadio or Mo do it

I'm sure Kane scored against Munich, Leicester and scored vs us this season too. I would hazard a guess if you look at last season he would have scored several vs good teams... same as Sterling. I don't particularly like Kane or Sterling, both seem like real arseholes to be honest but you cannot deny both players are exceptional talents. Their stats are absolutely undeniable:

- Kane:

2019-20: Goals:17 Assists:2
2018-19: Goals:24 Assists:8
2017-18: Goals:41 Assists:5
2016-17: Goals:35 Assists:7

- Sterling:

2019-20: Goals:20 Assists:6
2018-19: Goals:25 Assists:18
2017-18: Goals:23 Assists:17
2016-17: Goals:10 Assists: 20

I would love to say England's team is full of hype and over rated players but the reality is that they are developing a very talented side. Whether they actually end up winning anything is a different story.
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Old 15-01-20, 05:31 PM   #6292
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Most strikers are flat track bullies, how do you think Messi, Ronnie, Lewandowski, Aguero, Mbappe etc have the numbers they do... most of those are racked up vs fodder. of course they score against good teams too as does Kane but a majority of the numbers are made up of goals vs shit. Still wins their team points
Flat track bullys only bully weaker teams, the guys you have listed have scored in the biggest games.

I literally cant think of a Kane 1-0 game, a semi-final or final (not that there have been many of those) where Kane has grabbed the winner. He doesn't boss big games. He is not a terrifying prospect for a top defender. All of the guys above (as well as our three) have delivered when it matters.

His goals against us have been in defeats or draws.

He is good - don't get me wrong, but he is over-hyped because he is English. And for all the potential of those England players, and it is just potential for most of them, they would still have Pickford in goal and Harry Maguire along with one other in Central Defence. Thats why they wont win anything.

Fingers crossed.
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Old 15-01-20, 05:45 PM   #6293
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Old 15-01-20, 05:46 PM   #6294
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I do think Kane is decent. Not world Class level as a forward. But he is very very good. England are building a pretty brilliant team, best I can remember. So I think they have a solid chance of doing well at the Euros. Especially as all their group games are at Wembley and the Semi and Final are too.
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Old 15-01-20, 05:46 PM   #6295
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I just never thought I'd have to talk an Irishman down from getting carried away about England!!!
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Old 15-01-20, 06:08 PM   #6296
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Old 15-01-20, 06:20 PM   #6297
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I just never thought I'd have to talk an Irishman down from getting carried away about England!!!
pmsl

Mate I wish I didn't think they had what looks like a very good side but it's looking that way unfortunately.
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Old 15-01-20, 06:38 PM   #6298
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I just never thought I'd have to talk an Irishman down from getting carried away about England!!!
I apologize for my fellow countryman bur given he is from Dublin I’m not surprised

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Old 15-01-20, 08:40 PM   #6299
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Yeah none of that is true to be fair. I said England have an abundance of talent and are in the best shape they've been in years. I can't get more general than that really.
Ah well I think it might have been the fact the conversation was about lack of options with Kane injured, and that your entire post before that sentence featuring only strikers that could step in, that tripped us up a bit on that front Dan

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As regards their dogshit squad:

Kane, Rashford, Alli, Maddison, Henderson, Sterling, Sancho, Ox, Trent, Chilwell, Gomez would be their best players.

Pope, Pickford, Henderson, Grealish, Maguire, AWB, Stones, Walker, Winks, Wilson, Dier, Shaw, Abraham, Trippier, Barkley, Mings, Keane would be their second tier.

Abraham, Foden, Mount, Hudson, Tomori are some of the young talents.

For such a young squad they have the best right back in the world in Trent, one of the best strikers in the world in Kane, one of the best attacking players in the world in Sterling, one of the most sought after youngsters in the world in Sancho, one of the most on form strikers in Rashford & one of the most in form CB's in Gomez this season. Oh and Henderson who is better than every other English player above as his illustrious award yesterday suggests. Yeah I reckon they are looking alright
Most of that second tier is shocking or some hyped child who may or may not be England regulars once they've developed a bit more.

An abundance of talent to me means the first XI leaves some real class players out and there are some seriously difficult calls to make announcing the squad. Not trash like Pickford guaranteed a start whilst a handful of mediocre players continue to pick up caps due to absence of anyone genuinely good.
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Old 16-01-20, 03:55 PM   #6300
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Old 16-01-20, 04:12 PM   #6301
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Old 16-01-20, 04:44 PM   #6302
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He's been overplayed, felt like a matter of time until he got a bad injury
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Old 16-01-20, 07:23 PM   #6303
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lol
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Old 16-01-20, 07:32 PM   #6304
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Old 16-01-20, 08:01 PM   #6305
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He's been overplayed, felt like a matter of time until he got a bad injury
Hasn’t he had this before and now it’s got progressively worse, for a club that’s been lauded on their transfer strategy and acumen under Levy they’ve dropped the ball big time recently

Rose - will leave on a free
Toby - wanted by everyone 2 years ago, rumoured to have turned down bids of £50m and then when his release clause activated they gave him a new big contract when his legs went
Erickson - was a €100m player a couple of seasons ago, now will leave in a free in the summer or for a fraction of the price this window
Kane - nobody will touch him now given his injuries
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Old 16-01-20, 08:06 PM   #6306
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Yep - they should have punted him for £100m plus after the WC. He was made to look amazing by England’s piss easy run to the semis.
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Old 16-01-20, 10:24 PM   #6307
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Gutted for them that their bubble has burst
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Old 16-01-20, 11:46 PM   #6308
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Kane - nobody will touch him now given his injuries
According to this article in the Athletic, Kane's injury record to date is nothing out of the ordinary...


Harry Kane is a star for club and country, scoring more goals for both Tottenham Hotspur and England in the past five years than any other player.

But yet again England are heading towards a major tournament with the fitness of a key player in doubt. Spurs, meanwhile, are counting the cost of an eighth significant injury to Kane since he made his first-team debut for them in 2011. Combined, he’s missed over a year through injury during that time.

Though many observers would consider Kane injury prone, Johnny Wilson, a clinical director at 108 Harley Street who has conducted pre-signing medical assessments for clubs all over the world, says the Tottenham striker would not be considered a high-risk injury prospect.

“Kane has suffered injuries in the past, as have the majority of 26-year-olds in the Premier League, but having scrutinised his injury history, I don’t believe that his injury history is extraordinary in any respect,” says Wilson.

Indeed, Kane’s availability rate in the Premier League from 2014-15 to 2018-19 was 88 per cent, and, barring illness, he had started every Premier League fixture this season before his latest injury. Only Toby Alderweireld, the centre-back, has played more top-flight minutes for Spurs this season.

Kane was playing his fourth game in 10 days when he suffered the hamstring injury against Southampton and limped off with 15 minutes to go. The busy period over Christmas is notoriously difficult to manage with fixtures scheduled every 48-72 hours.

Injuries are commonplace when the fixtures pile up like that; they are an occupational hazard. Scientists are working on a best-guess scenario as to why these injuries occur. Medical professionals in football are firefighting at best, while coaches believe the culprit for such injuries is fixture-induced fatigue rather than their training methods. It is a mess.

“Plenty of former professional footballers, including Ian Wright, have said that Kane has been mismanaged in the past and returned too quickly due to his importance to the team,” says Wilson. “They believed by rushing Kane back prematurely it has affected his performance over the past two seasons.

“However, injuries are part and parcel of the modern game, and no player is allowed the luxury of time when it comes to playing again following injury. All players will aim to return to play as quickly and safely as possible. They will be involved in a shared decision-making system where the risks of re-injury will be communicated by the medical staff to all parties, including the manager and chief executives. If all the key decision-makers are happy with the risk, then the player will return to action.”

It perhaps didn’t help that, aside from Everton away in November, which he missed through illness, Kane had played every minute of every league game since getting five minutes off against Crystal Palace on September 14 — when his side were already 4-0 up.

[https://cdn]

(Photo: Matt Watson/Southampton FC via Getty Images)

When he’s available, he starts, so without a recognised replacement to ease the burden up front, Kane was pressed into action again at St Mary’s. He left the stadium on crutches sparking speculation of a serious setback, which manager Jose Mourinho initially tried to play down.

“It is negative, hamstring is always negative,” Mourinho told reporters in the post-match press conference. “Is it a tear? Is it a small thing? Is it a contraction? At this moment I cannot say. He plays every minute; he plays all the time. It might be big; it might be small. For sure, he will be out.”

Then, on January 9, the club announced: “Following ongoing assessment by our medical staff over the past week, we can confirm that Harry Kane will undergo surgery to repair a ruptured tendon in his left hamstring.”

From scrutinising video footage of the incident, it would be reasonable to suggest Kane suffered a significant injury to the proximal aspect of his hamstring. This is the area where the hamstring attaches to the hip. In severe cases, there are some surgeons who recommend early surgical treatment to either reattach the hamstring to the bone if it has come off or to stitch the muscle and tendon back together if they think it is too big to heal by itself. However, it should be noted that a successful outcome following surgery is not guaranteed.

The ramifications of this injury could not only jeopardise Kane’s domestic season but also his involvement in Euro 2020. He is 26 years old, and according to scientists is classified as an “older athlete”; therefore, he may require more time to recover satisfactorily. The expected time-frame forecast by surgeons, if everything goes to plan and Kane doesn’t suffer any setbacks, is generally 12 to 16 weeks; although this is a guideline and not definitive.

Data collected over the previous 10 Premier League seasons indicates an average return-to-play period of 107 days from similar injuries, which would, in theory, enable Kane to feature in Tottenham’s final four Premier League fixtures.

[https://cdn]

The surgeon generally governs the rehab for the first few weeks after surgery.

Kane will initially need to recover from the surgery itself; the wound needs to be kept clean and sterile to minimise the chance of post-operative infection. He will then progress from non-weight bearing through to full weight-bearing activities, carry out gentle stretching exercises to regain full range of movement and then begin the arduous journey of strengthening his hamstrings and regaining his fitness levels in such a way that not only can he tolerate the demands of playing in the Premier League but also to perform for England in the Euros this summer.

Although to Spurs supporters it will seem like an eternity, both Kane and the sports medicine team are in a time-crunched environment; they will be keen to get him back as soon as possible, without putting him at risk of re-injury. Expectations are enormous, particularly when it is a player of his profile, and the spotlight will be firmly focused on Kane during his recovery.

From around three to four weeks post-op, the rehab programme will be designed to improve strength, power, speed, aerobic and anaerobic qualities simultaneously. The typical rehab day will involve assessment, monitoring, treatment and both gym and field sessions, as well as endless progress reviews.

The player will spend plenty of hours in the gym pushing, pressing and throwing weights about to regain his pre-injury strength and power levels to help minimise his risk of future injury. He is likely to take advantage of the Wattbike (stationary bike) as an off-feet conditioning tool to build up his aerobic fitness levels.

As well as all this, Kane could commence straight-line, weight-assisted jogging (in the pool or using an AlterG anti-gravity treadmill) within a month of surgery. His running pace will then increase progressively over the following 21 days, and, if all goes to plan, he could reach top speed by week six. Kane’s running programme will also include changing direction, acceleration, deceleration and game-specific scenarios which will involve progressive kicking activities. It should be noted that his progress will be determined by tasks rather than time alone.

Once he is able to tolerate jogging, he can then progress on to running; when he can tolerate running, he will advance to sprinting. It won’t be assumed that, by week six, Kane will magically be able to sprint. It will be determined by how well he is functioning.

The final two to three weeks of his rehab will be spent easing back into full, unrestricted training sessions. If he can cope with the demands of training, Mourinho will be keen to blood him as soon as possible on a match day. A graded return to full match play may help reduce the risk of incurring another hamstring injury; however there are no guarantees when it comes to hamstrings.

Kane can look to the recoveries of fellow top-flight players Ross Barkley and Michail Antonio, both of whom have had similar procedures in recent times. In particular, Barkley, who earned a move from Everton to Chelsea two years ago following his recovery from surgery after being injured in pre-season and is showing no long-term ill-effects of that injury.

Asked for an update on Kane on Monday, Mourinho suggested he may even be out until the 2020-21 season.

He said: “News on Harry, we don’t have. And if you ask me every time we come here the answer will be the same. We expect him to be out until mid-April, end of April, May, next season. I don’t know.”

Tottenham and England must be careful with their treatment of Kane in the coming months though, particularly in terms of the amount of minutes he plays before the European Championship starts on June 12. Any mistakes in the planning of his competitive minutes could be hugely detrimental to his recovery.
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Old 17-01-20, 07:05 AM   #6309
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Old 17-01-20, 08:23 AM   #6310
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According to this article in the Athletic, Kane's injury record to date is nothing out of the ordinary...
I’m not going to disagree with that expert but my point was more around the fact he seems to be having an annual occurrence of a major muscle injury that is keeping him out for sustained periods. The best indicator of future injury is previous injury so the likelihood of it happening again is high.

I don’t know is he being rushed back - Champions league final last year and possibly euros this year. What this highlights is how well we manage our key players with regards to injury prevention. We also tend to buy robust players now I.e. a proven track record of playing many games without injury (Ox May be an exception here)

We also allow players the time to recover when they do get injured - our medical department are also at the top of their game
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Old 17-01-20, 11:12 AM   #6311
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I hope they rush him back again this time and he ends up broken in November for 6 months
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Old 17-01-20, 11:30 AM   #6312
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Hasn’t he had this before and now it’s got progressively worse, for a club that’s been lauded on their transfer strategy and acumen under Levy they’ve dropped the ball big time recently

Rose - will leave on a free
Toby - wanted by everyone 2 years ago, rumoured to have turned down bids of £50m and then when his release clause activated they gave him a new big contract when his legs went
Erickson - was a €100m player a couple of seasons ago, now will leave in a free in the summer or for a fraction of the price this window
Kane - nobody will touch him now given his injuries
Same injury Owen had that depleted his talents

Kane has had consistent injury problems every season, hes had ankle injuries the last two and now its moved to his hamstrings this season

Whilst I dont think it will completely finish him like it did Owen (hes not as reliant on pace) this injury does frequently re-occur
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Old 17-01-20, 11:34 AM   #6313
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I'd be looking at a new club if the current one wasn't taking care of me medically.
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Old 18-01-20, 08:10 PM   #6314
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Mad - I remember thinking how well they spent the Bale money and how badly we spent the Suarez money

Turns out we both did shit

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Old 18-01-20, 08:13 PM   #6315
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Well worth it cos we got this classic

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Old 18-01-20, 10:36 PM   #6316
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Old 20-01-20, 11:07 AM   #6317
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Lose the CL final and go to shit , we lost and bounced back into monsters
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Old 20-01-20, 01:14 PM   #6318
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Good point
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