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Old 14-08-11, 06:25 PM   #41
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First post - Deep breath, no pressure here goes: My first thought when i got the ground yesterday and heard the team was why hendo was in ahead of dirk in the first place, likewise Flanno/Kelly. Obviously the fact he was playing against his old team and making his debut played a major part in his display though, he just wanted to make no mistakes, it must be hard enough making your debut at such a young age with a hefty price tag on your shoulders, add to that it's your childhood team your playing against and his emotions must have been all over the place.

So basically i'm just saying give the lad a chance, I know we didn't see anything from him attacking wise really but that'll come with confidence, his distribution is obviously very good, I don't think I remember him giving the ball away at all? Could be wrong.
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Agree with pretty much all of that, it was a slightly surprising selection for me, what with Flanagan playing behind I would have thought Kuyt's older head would have made more sense though I can understand Kenny wanting to show some faith in the lad, and playing against his old club will have meant a lot to him. I'm sure we'll see an awful lot more from himthough as the season goes on, he was excellent for Sunderland last year for a long spell, is a very level headed young lad, and will benefit from playing with someone like Johnson in the longer term.

Its a total cliché of course, but the huge amount of money we spent on him is hardly his fault; we've paid a premium for a lot of potential and nobody should be jumping to judge him too early in what should be a long career with us.
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Old 14-08-11, 06:30 PM   #42
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Agree with pretty much all of that, it was a slightly surprising selection for me, what with Flanagan playing behind I would have thought Kuyt's older head would have made more sense though I can understand Kenny wanting to show some faith in the lad, and playing against his old club will have meant a lot to him. I'm sure we'll see an awful lot more from himthough as the season goes on, he was excellent for Sunderland last year for a long spell, is a very level headed young lad, and will benefit from playing with someone like Johnson in the longer term.

Its a total cliché of course, but the huge amount of money we spent on him is hardly his fault; we've paid a premium for a lot of potential and nobody should be jumping to judge him too early in what should be a long career with us.
And to be fair nobody did. People waited until full-time and they very much deserve credit for it. We can ask no more and I don't think we can accuse the OP of any undue haste or kneekjerkery whatsoever.
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Old 14-08-11, 09:29 PM   #43
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And to be fair nobody did. People waited until full-time and they very much deserve credit for it. We can ask no more and I don't think we can accuse the OP of any undue haste or kneekjerkery whatsoever.
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Old 15-08-11, 01:46 AM   #44
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Neil

I think the posts have been questioning his role in the team rather than the player himself and amount we payed. As Kris said he will keep it simple, pass & move. I agree on the right may not be his best position but lets give the lad and and the team a bit more time to gel together.

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Old 15-08-11, 01:55 AM   #45
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First post - Deep breath, no pressure here goes: My first thought when i got the ground yesterday and heard the team was why hendo was in ahead of dirk in the first place, likewise Flanno/Kelly. Obviously the fact he was playing against his old team and making his debut played a major part in his display though, he just wanted to make no mistakes, it must be hard enough making your debut at such a young age with a hefty price tag on your shoulders, add to that it's your childhood team your playing against and his emotions must have been all over the place.

So basically i'm just saying give the lad a chance, I know we didn't see anything from him attacking wise really but that'll come with confidence, his distribution is obviously very good, I don't think I remember him giving the ball away at all? Could be wrong.
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Old 15-08-11, 02:02 AM   #46
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I'm just chuffed we have players that can pass the ball crisply and cleanly, and not get harried in midfield or run down blind alleys. Our future goal is possession football, for that you need adept possession players. Henderson is one of the them and his influence will mature as he does.
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Old 15-08-11, 03:00 AM   #47
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I'm just chuffed we have players that can pass the ball crisply and cleanly, and not get harried in midfield or run down blind alleys. Our future goal is possession football, for that you need adept possession players. Henderson is one of the them and his influence will mature as he does.
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Old 15-08-11, 06:57 AM   #48
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I'm just chuffed we have players that can pass the ball crisply and cleanly, and not get harried in midfield or run down blind alleys. Our future goal is possession football, for that you need adept possession players. Henderson is one of the them and his influence will mature as he does.
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Old 15-08-11, 09:37 AM   #49
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Feel sorry for the lad, but he should not be starting ahead of Kuyt right now. Hope he's benched on Sunday.
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Old 15-08-11, 10:24 AM   #50
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at the game saturday - 10 mins in some fella goes "what the fuck is this henderson about....£20m...fucking hell" - too which his mate replied "fuck off dickhead...he's 20 yrs old and 10 mins into his debut."




However i am unsure by it all....i admit i hardly remember him at all from Sunderland....never remember watching them and thinking this henderson is good or anything and i understand he is young and has great potential....but at the same time, when you sign someone for £20m you usually have some idea of what you are getting....and with Henderson i just don't know what to expect...i'm not sure where he plays or what he does and after watching him for 60mins i still wasn't sure...

So whilst i do agree with the "he's 20 and just starting out" arguement, and i believe that he is obviously a talented young lad with a future and i am not going to jump on his back and critiscise him - but i also do a feel a little bit well "er...what did we do that for?"

i'm sure once he settles and the team get to know each other he will get better.
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Old 15-08-11, 10:27 AM   #51
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also has mentioned above by Gary_LFC - totally baffled me when i got the ground and heard it was flanno/henderson on the right over a kelly/kuyt combination.
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Old 15-08-11, 07:21 PM   #52
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He wasn't £20m. Opinions should be diluted by 20% accordingly

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Old 15-08-11, 07:47 PM   #53
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I'm just chuffed we have players that can pass the ball crisply and cleanly, and not get harried in midfield or run down blind alleys. Our future goal is possession football, for that you need adept possession players. Henderson is one of the them and his influence will mature as he does.
But that's not enough, unless we're aiming to be champions in the 'time in possession' league.
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Old 17-08-11, 12:33 PM   #54
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He wasn't £20m. Opinions should be diluted by 20% accordingly

Minus another 3million for them add-ons which won't be triggered yet for a while!
Then we are talking the true value...
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Old 17-08-11, 12:43 PM   #55
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Agree with davegrady, Kris, doogle and all the other positive posts He is surely an old-fashioned Liverpool midfielder - keeps it ticking, rarely loses possession, always on the
move, gets in the box, gets back into his defensive position quickly, good engine, good crosser and has a brain

He will click the more the team clicks and vice versa
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Old 17-08-11, 12:47 PM   #56
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I think he'll do fine for us but I am not sure playing him wide right is the best way of utilizing his skills.

I also think Kuyt gives us more defensively when used on the right than Hendo.
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Old 17-08-11, 12:53 PM   #57
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He seemed to occupy the general right area though, tucking in sometimes and going wide sometimes, which is fine as he's played both positions
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Old 18-08-11, 11:55 AM   #58
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Again... at the risk of repeating myself as I've mentioned in numerous other threads... Henderson had the joint third highest "Key Pass" rate in the premiership last season. That means he created more chances than anyone else in the premier league barring 2 players..... That's what he does exactly.....
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Old 18-08-11, 12:01 PM   #59
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Clearly it's different to play for LFC than for Sunderland.

He won't be a "go-to-guy" (at least not initially) and as result his impact on the game will not be the same.
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Old 18-08-11, 12:01 PM   #60
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Again... at the risk of repeating myself as I've mentioned in numerous other threads... Henderson had the joint third highest "Key Pass" rate in the premiership last season. That means he created more chances than anyone else in the premier league barring 2 players..... That's what he does exactly.....
But he also had a very low assist rate and a low scoring rate, Kuyt had both more assists and more goals.
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Old 18-08-11, 12:06 PM   #61
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Clearly it's different to play for LFC than for Sunderland.

He won't be a "go-to-guy" (at least not initially) and as result his impact on the game will not be the same.
So he's not the Mesiah ?

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Old 18-08-11, 12:09 PM   #62
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Mattshark "But he also had a very low assist rate and a low scoring rate, Kuyt had both more assists and more goals."


Yeah but Its not Henderson's fault if his team mates where not good enough to convert the chances he created last season. Also Kuyt spent 4 1/2 months upfront which was a large contributing factor to his tally of goals...
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Old 18-08-11, 12:10 PM   #63
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So he's not the Mesiah ?

He's Not The Messiah - YouTube
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Old 18-08-11, 12:30 PM   #64
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Mattshark "But he also had a very low assist rate and a low scoring rate, Kuyt had both more assists and more goals."


Yeah but Its not Henderson's fault if his team mates where not good enough to convert the chances he created last season. Also Kuyt spent 4 1/2 months upfront which was a large contributing factor to his tally of goals...
Bent and Gyan are not bad forwards though (even if Bent was only there for a half the season) how good were those chances exactly?
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Old 18-08-11, 12:55 PM   #65
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I know it's the nature of the internet to make snap judgements but writing off Henderson after one game does strike me as a trifle premature.
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Old 18-08-11, 12:57 PM   #66
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I'm not writing him off, I just don't think he is presently as good as other players we have in our team.
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Old 18-08-11, 01:04 PM   #67
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I don't think anyone is really having a go at Henderson. However, there's a lot of questions surrounding his purchase.

1) Did we need him this season?
2) What area's does he actually excel in?
3) Is he better than what we currently have?

I don't think anyone here has said Henderson is shit, but I think people have issues with the points that I have listed above.
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Old 18-08-11, 01:05 PM   #68
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I'm not writing him off, I just don't think he is presently as good as other players we have in our team.
Not particularly aimed at you Matt, just a general point that occurs whilst reading this thread having been away for a couple of weeks.
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Old 18-08-11, 01:11 PM   #69
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I don't think anyone is really having a go at Henderson. However, there's a lot of questions surrounding his purchase.

1) Did we need him this season?
2) What area's does he actually excel in?
3) Is he better than what we currently have?
All valid of course, but I can't remember any of our other signings getting such a forensic level of examination so soon after joining.

Perhaps they did but I just can't recall it.
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Old 18-08-11, 03:28 PM   #70
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All valid of course, but I can't remember any of our other signings getting such a forensic level of examination so soon after joining.

Perhaps they did but I just can't recall it.
in what way is that a 'forensic' examination? The questions couldn't be any more basic.
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Old 18-08-11, 04:36 PM   #71
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It's just a word FFS.

*Note to self, level of pedantry is the same as when I left 2.5 weeks ago*
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Old 18-08-11, 04:42 PM   #72
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Henderson's 'problem' is that he is good at everything but spectacular at nothing. He is one of those players who you appreciate more once he has played regularly but he doesn't make an instant impact.
Because he doesn't smash into challenges, do fake fist clench's to the crowd, play 40 yard passes all game or pop up in the box with an amazing volley fans wonder what he does.

Wiw got it 100% correct, he is an 'old fashioned' or 'typical' Liverpool player.
Reminds me a lot of Ray Houghton, plays in that little inside right role or plays out to in from the right, bundles of energy, good economic use of the ball and will pop up with important goals and assists.

As the saying goes he's a players player, not a fans player.

Lee asked did we need him this season? the answer is probably not but this is what we used to do, buy players, integrate them into the squad and let them find their feet and blossom.

Kenny was often quoted last season about Carroll saying we brought him for 5 years hopefully longer not just for a few games, well he'll hope that we played £16m for someone who could easily spend 15 years here.
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Old 18-08-11, 04:46 PM   #73
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Henderson's 'problem' is that he is good at everything but spectacular at nothing. He is one of those players who you appreciate more once he has played regularly but he doesn't make an instant impact.
Because he doesn't smash into challenges, do fake fist clench's to the crowd, play 40 yard passes all game or pop up in the box with an amazing volley fans wonder what he does.

Wiw got it 100% correct, he is an 'old fashioned' or 'typical' Liverpool player.
Reminds me a lot of Ray Houghton, plays in that little inside right role or plays out to in from the right, bundles of energy, good economic use of the ball and will pop up with important goals and assists.

As the saying goes he's a players player, not a fans player.

Lee asked did we need him this season? the answer is probably not but this is what we used to do, buy players, integrate them into the squad and let them find their feet and blossom.

Kenny was often quoted last season about Carroll saying we bought him for 5 years hopefully longer not just for a few games, well he'll hope that we played £16m for someone who could easily spend 15 years here.
I'd say scoring is something he has not shown himself to be adept at.
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Old 18-08-11, 04:58 PM   #74
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Henderson's 'problem' is that he is good at everything but spectacular at nothing. He is one of those players who you appreciate more once he has played regularly but he doesn't make an instant impact.
Because he doesn't smash into challenges, do fake fist clench's to the crowd, play 40 yard passes all game or pop up in the box with an amazing volley fans wonder what he does.

Wiw got it 100% correct, he is an 'old fashioned' or 'typical' Liverpool player.
Reminds me a lot of Ray Houghton, plays in that little inside right role or plays out to in from the right, bundles of energy, good economic use of the ball and will pop up with important goals and assists.

As the saying goes he's a players player, not a fans player.

Lee asked did we need him this season? the answer is probably not but this is what we used to do, buy players, integrate them into the squad and let them find their feet and blossom.

Kenny was often quoted last season about Carroll saying we brought him for 5 years hopefully longer not just for a few games, well he'll hope that we played £16m for someone who could easily spend 15 years here.
Fair points there mate.
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Old 18-08-11, 04:59 PM   #75
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Henderson's 'problem' is that he is good at everything but spectacular at nothing. He is one of those players who you appreciate more once he has played regularly but he doesn't make an instant impact.
Because he doesn't smash into challenges, do fake fist clench's to the crowd, play 40 yard passes all game or pop up in the box with an amazing volley fans wonder what he does.

Wiw got it 100% correct, he is an 'old fashioned' or 'typical' Liverpool player.
Reminds me a lot of Ray Houghton, plays in that little inside right role or plays out to in from the right, bundles of energy, good economic use of the ball and will pop up with important goals and assists.

As the saying goes he's a players player, not a fans player.

Lee asked did we need him this season? the answer is probably not but this is what we used to do, buy players, integrate them into the squad and let them find their feet and blossom.

Kenny was often quoted last season about Carroll saying we brought him for 5 years hopefully longer not just for a few games, well he'll hope that we played £16m for someone who could easily spend 15 years here.
don't be daft and look at the long term bigger picture - it's all about the short term, here and now!
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Old 18-08-11, 05:07 PM   #76
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I'd say scoring is something he has not shown himself to be adept at.
Not being pissy or anything, but you mention his lack of assists and goals. I have no idea of the stats but when I picked my fantasy team I sorted midfielders by last season's points total, and Henderson (along with Adam & Downing) was right in amongst the very highest points scorers in the league. Right at the top.

So he must've done something right? Quite a lot in fact?
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Old 18-08-11, 05:09 PM   #77
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Not being pissy or anything, but you mention his lack of assists and goals. I have no idea of the stats but when I picked my fantasy team I sorted midfielders by last season's points total, and Henderson (along with Adam & Downing) was right in amongst the very highest points scorers in the league. Right at the top.

So he must've done something right? Quite a lot in fact?
I have no idea how they work it out, but I also noted that Lucas had relatively few points in last year in fantasy teams.
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Old 18-08-11, 05:12 PM   #78
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I have no idea how they work it out, but I also noted that Lucas had relatively few points in last year in fantasy teams.
Me neither really, other than you get points for setting up and scoring goals - which explains Lucas' low total.
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Old 18-08-11, 05:15 PM   #79
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Me neither really, other than you get points for setting up and scoring goals - which explains Lucas' low total.
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Old 18-08-11, 05:15 PM   #80
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lucas got low points because he's shit
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