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Old 20-02-21, 08:15 PM   #881
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Well well well


Ironically VAR done it's job. But apparently its not enough to override the complete ineptitude, and let's face it, pride, of a PL referee.
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Old 20-02-21, 08:39 PM   #882
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I don't understand how he has been told to review it and has seen about 75% of a single replay and decided he was right. Trent isn't even looking at the man. Never ever ever a foul. Players look for the man and run away from the ball to block the man to 'shield' the ball out of play. Trent has no idea where the man is. The man runs in to Trent and gets a penalty.

Pride is definitely a factor. Senior PL figures talking about how important it is for the product that different teams win along with decisions like that are of course going to create suspicions its bent.

I think there is too much money swirling around football. There is no way organised crime groups are going to stay away because of the potential attention. If they will risk it to nobble a challenger tour tennis match and win 4, maybe 5 figures they absolutely will risk it on PL to win 7 figures!
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Old 20-02-21, 08:57 PM   #883
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I donít think itís a conspiracy, itís individuals under a lot of pressure making really poor calls.

If the sport is serious about keeping VAR then implementation needs to change and Riley needs to be replaced.

I bet theyíre currently concocting some BS to explain the pen decision.
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Old 20-02-21, 10:52 PM   #884
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I'd be interested to know what the VAR official says to the ref, do they just say you need to look at this? Do they say I think you have made a mistake? Do they say you need to look at this again because from one angle it looks a pen from another it doesn't.

Surely the VAR official has seen it from multiple angles and has to tell the ref to look at multiple angles? Or there are more angles, or does the VAR not have all the angles that TV have?

To me it looks like the big error is with the ref not looking at, or VAR not showing the second angle and the question has to be why?
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Old 20-02-21, 11:23 PM   #885
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If the referee isn't studying the footage for a minute or so and also in slow mo, then going over to the screen is merely playing lip service
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Old 20-02-21, 11:30 PM   #886
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If the referee isn't studying the footage for a minute or so and also in slow mo, then going over to the screen is merely playing lip service
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Old 21-02-21, 12:00 AM   #887
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From the Sheffield Fulham game.

What the fuck?
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Old 21-02-21, 12:51 AM   #888
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Where are we with ruling on VAR changing decisions or officials changing their decision on looking at the pitchside monitor? Is it still the clear and obvious error stuff, because I can't keep up anymore.

This feels like the clear and obvious error BS the referee gave the penalty on the pitch, if you go with the clear and obvious rule then realistically the only way that pen decision is overturned is if there is no contact or there is some other infringement (eg offside). This is the only way I can see that the decision wasn't changed, because its a stupid rule. The referee should be able to look at the monitor and have free rein to decide if it is a pen or not with no bias from the decision he initially made on the pitch, not having the ability to do so is a problem with VAR. If the referee did have free rein then then the lack of time spent at the monitor represents either a problem with the official being shit or a lack of communication about the need to see other angles.
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Old 21-02-21, 12:52 AM   #889
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To have two penalty decisions like that less than 3 hours apart is baffling. Its hard to argue with the accusation they are making it up with such contrasting decisions.
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Old 21-02-21, 12:58 AM   #890
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I'd be interested to know what the VAR official says to the ref
We all would. And it would be a great step in the direction of giving fans faith in the system and improving transparency.
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Old 21-02-21, 08:49 AM   #891
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We all would. And it would be a great step in the direction of giving fans faith in the system and improving transparency.
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Old 21-02-21, 08:57 AM   #892
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A couple more thoughts about the decision yesterday, as the penalty was given by the on field official this doesn't count as one of the long list of VAR decisions that have gone against us.

The other thing is VAR was supposed to be removing the uncertainty from controversial decisions if anything it is amplifying them, previously you would just say the referee has made a mistake, not be happy about it but move on. Every week now we are talking about poor VAR decisions, offsides that don't look right, fouls that aren't referred to it, soft pens that are awarded despite minimal contact or just poor use of the system in some form. It feels more like we concentrate on these than ever.
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Old 21-02-21, 09:06 AM   #893
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It's really hard to stay interested in football at the moment but there's fuck all else to be inspired by so we're stuck with it
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Old 21-02-21, 10:01 AM   #894
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It's really hard to stay interested in football at the moment but there's fuck all else to be inspired by so we're stuck with it
Thatís kinda it innit? We are fish in a barrel over lockdown.
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Old 21-02-21, 10:10 AM   #895
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Thatís kinda it innit? We are fish in a barrel over lockdown.
In a nutshell
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Old 21-02-21, 10:35 AM   #896
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I am really curious to know what the clubs are doing about VAR do they have access to the VAR tapes and angles etc because I would be running my own analysis of every VAR decision that we are involved in and asking questions about any that are controversial that we don't agree with or we believe are too ambiguous. Are clubs doing this behind the scenes?

If we don't have access to it I would be pushing for it, if the system is robust then reanalysis won't change any of the factual decisions such as offside, and if it does there are serious problems. Likewise the subjective decisions require comparisons across games to ensure that the system is being used consistently. If we are sticking with VAR then we need to use it to ensure consistency of refereeing otherwise it just makes the game more unfair and more of a lottery than without it.

For me there is a big issue around what is called on the pitch and what isn't IMO there are alot of no calls for penalties that aren't given on the pitch and VAR supposedly takes a quick look and confirms the no call but equivalent incidents that are called as pens on the pitch are reviewed by VAR and usually confirmed as pens, clearly there is a massive inconsistency here. The same incident should have the same outcome regardless of how it was called on the pitch, there is a massive confirmation bias in these decisions and that needs to be removed so that games are refereed consistently.
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Old 21-02-21, 05:47 PM   #897
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The simple fact is that all the time a dinosaur (+corrupt) twat like riley is head of the PGMOL, the system will be fucked, awful & irrational with its decision making & it will continue until he is removed.

Forget Webb, without doubt Riley was the most inept & corrupt refi have seen in 40 years of watching football.
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Old 21-02-21, 05:58 PM   #898
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Howard Webb, for those that do not know/remember, was/is a police officer with South Yorkshire Police.
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Old 21-02-21, 06:08 PM   #899
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Howard Webb, for those that do not know/remember, was/is a police officer with South Yorkshire Police.


Never knew that
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Old 21-02-21, 06:47 PM   #900
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Howard Webb, for those that do not know/remember, was/is a police officer with South Yorkshire Police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Never knew that

nothing to see here................
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Old 21-02-21, 06:49 PM   #901
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saw a tweet last night which i completely agree with.

These refs are on 100k a week & £3k a game, they need to be interviewed after games to explain their decisions. Not as a witch hunt, but for us mere mortals to understand the thought process on controversial (strange) decisions.
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Old 21-02-21, 06:51 PM   #902
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& not by twats like Kelly & Shreeves, but decent football reporters (honigstein, Reddy, even Winter)
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Old 21-02-21, 06:53 PM   #903
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saw a tweet last night which i completely agree with.

These refs are on 100k a week & £3k a game, they need to be interviewed after games to explain their decisions. Not as a witch hunt, but for us mere mortals to understand the thought process on controversial (strange) decisions.
£100,000 a week
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Old 21-02-21, 06:56 PM   #904
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There is no way refs are on 100k a week....most would be on over half that a year, plus their match fees (probably 1-2k)
Some of the "top" ones would be on that a year, with elite ones on more.


Edit - Not sure how accurate, but quick Google brought this up



https://www.sportbible.com/football/...ealed-20200913
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Old 21-02-21, 06:57 PM   #905
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And the £3k a game I think covers all officials so ref linos and 4th officials and that covers their travel, accommodation, and food expenses too so if they have an overnight stay they ain't getting a match fee plus expenses.
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Old 21-02-21, 07:06 PM   #906
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There is no way refs are on 100k a week....most would be on over half that a year, plus their match fees (probably 1-2k)
Some of the "top" ones would be on that a year, with elite ones on more.


Edit - Not sure how accurate, but quick Google brought this up



https://www.sportbible.com/football/...ealed-20200913
top refs must do about 30 games a season which means they are on about £250k a year
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Old 21-02-21, 07:18 PM   #907
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Certainly the ones doing CL and international duty would be well compensated alright, especially considering how poor some of their performances are. It's a relatively unskilled role with little to differentiate the ability of those on 48k with those on quadruple that, albeit one that does require certifications, granted.

To be fair they get a lot of shit......but then that's because the majority of them are shit.

Probably no surprise how precious and resistant they've been to any alterations in how the game how the game should be officiated. Couldn't even be arsed getting themselves over to the monitors until recently, and now some of them can't even be bothered to look at them when they make the trip.
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Old 21-02-21, 09:48 PM   #908
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Sorry meant 100k a year
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Old 21-02-21, 11:25 PM   #909
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Here's a random suggestion: I think all refs should be paid more for the shit they have to take. Then they should be closely scrutinised for the delivery of value to the sport. Just like every other fecking job.

If they're not good enough, demotion then released from their jobs. The criteria is simple, how many mistakes did a match day group of officials make, why they were made despite four eye process and a grading of who was most culpable.

Refereeing in this country would instantly become unrecognisably good with lots of new applicants waiting in the wing for the good dough.
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Old 22-02-21, 12:32 AM   #910
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The interaction and harmony between the ref and the video ref in rugby is something football could and should learn from.
It’s so well done and as a fan you get the decision even if in some cases you don’t agree with it (usually reds for dangerous play). All explained and crystal clear.
The draconian shit we see from the PL is horrendous, get it wrong they double down on what they’ve done any halfwitted pundits dragged out to defend their decisions.

Var should be a step forwards but somehow they’ve managed to make things so much worse
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Old 22-02-21, 07:31 AM   #911
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The interaction and harmony between the ref and the video ref in rugby is something football could and should learn from.
Itís so well done and as a fan you get the decision even if in some cases you donít agree with it (usually reds for dangerous play). All explained and crystal clear.
The draconian shit we see from the PL is horrendous, get it wrong they double down on what theyíve done any halfwitted pundits dragged out to defend their decisions.
Var should be a step forwards but somehow theyíve managed to make things so much worse

You either need to hear the discussions between the officials indicating the process like they have in rugby and/or the official needs to explain the decision like they do in the NFL. Football is one of the last sports to bring this in so has seen how other sports do it well and still manages to come up with the shitish system possible.
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Old 22-02-21, 11:38 AM   #912
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Old 22-02-21, 11:42 AM   #913
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Wow
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Old 22-02-21, 11:46 AM   #914
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Old 22-02-21, 11:48 AM   #915
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That is exactly why VAR was bought in, the on-field ref either missed the incident or didn't appreciate what had happened; the VAR must intervene at this point & its a straight red.

They are too busy worrying about 1mm offside calls to see the real incidents

Its an absolute shocker TBH & should be retrospectively reviewed & the VAR official needs to understand that these type of incidents is the whole point of him being in existence …

EDIT: & then i see who the VAR was........... Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Lee Betts, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Lee Mason. VAR: Stuart Attwell.

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Old 22-02-21, 11:52 AM   #916
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3 mins in to the game too, absolute game changer
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Old 22-02-21, 11:54 AM   #917
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Who has updated his WIKI page ;o)

Paul Tierney is a football referee and Man Utd fan who officiates in the English Premier League. He first officiated in the Premier League on 30 August 2014. Tierney was promoted to the FIFA list of Referees on 1 January 2018. Wikipedia
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Old 22-02-21, 12:13 PM   #918
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Quote:
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That is exactly why VAR was bought in, the on-field ref either missed the incident or didn't appreciate what had happened; the VAR must intervene at this point & its a straight red.

They are too busy worrying about 1mm offside calls to see the real incidents

Its an absolute shocker TBH & should be retrospectively reviewed & the VAR official needs to understand that these type of incidents is the whole point of him being in existence Ö

EDIT: & then i see who the VAR was........... Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Lee Betts, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Lee Mason. VAR: Stuart Attwell.
This is the thing that annoys me, who decides what is and what isn't looked at by VAR it seems fairly random, as you say these are the type of decisions VAR was brought in for. When it misses something like that this is where you feel the ability of the manager or captain or someone to ask for an incident to be reviewed by VAR is needed, but that's never going to happen.
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Old 22-02-21, 12:14 PM   #919
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Also that and the Rashford penalty were in the same match wtf were the officials doing?
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Old 22-02-21, 12:49 PM   #920
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its Atwell, he got laughed out of the football league & rocks up reffing prem games.........

He was hated in the championship, due to be completely inept
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