Chelsea Home - Page 12

npinn001 · 05-03-21, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foresterbloke

We are total cock custard right now.

I still think Thiago is shit in this team, we need three machines in midfield to release the creativity of the attack and full backs.

Yep. Thiago is the type you bring on late in the game to ping a pass or to see the game out by passing it around. Bad fit for us.

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Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 07:55 AM

Last night's defeat means that we have lost more PL games at Anfield in our last 5 than we have in all than in all of Klopp's reign prior to that

Rich · 05-03-21, 08:24 AM

I can’t find of any team anywhere that has totally collapsed to the extent we have.

Relegation form. Can’t get my head around it.

Biggest challenge of Klopp’s career now.

npinn001 · 05-03-21, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I can’t find of any team anywhere that has totally collapsed to the extent we have.

Relegation form. Can’t get my head around it.

Biggest challenge of Klopp’s career now.

Purely speculative, but I can imagine a world where klopp asked the owners to get him a top class centre back on Jan 1st, and they didn't. He tells them top 4 is going to be tough. They still don't. They he gets one player he won't play and another that seems a bad fit at the end of Jan. And now he's sick of being expected to work miracles when they don't back him so why bother changing things.

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Norbs · 05-03-21, 08:49 AM

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

npinn001 · 05-03-21, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

I know. Arms weren't in a natural position. Well, it's natural if you're being held at gunpoint, but that's about it.

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Norbs · 05-03-21, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npinn001

Purely speculative, but I can imagine a world where klopp asked the owners to get him a top class centre back on Jan 1st, and they didn't. He tells them top 4 is going to be tough. They still don't. They he gets one player he won't play and another that seems a bad fit at the end of Jan. And now he's sick of being expected to work miracles when they don't back him so why bother changing things.

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Those miracles would be easier if he stopped playing midfielders in defence. A 75% defender in defence has surely got to be better than a 100% midfielder there, especially if it leaves midfield weekened too. Sounds a bit like Klopp is throwing his toys out of the pram if what you say is true.

Norbs · 05-03-21, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npinn001

I know. Arms weren't in a natural position. Well, it's natural if you're being held at gunpoint, but that's about it.

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I didn't watch the after match autopsy, was it even brought up? Earlier this season it'd have been back page news.

Shaggy · 05-03-21, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

When you think of the pen given against Gomez at City, and then that shitshow last night...fucking disgrace.

npinn001 · 05-03-21, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Those miracles would be easier if he stopped playing midfielders in defence. A 75% defender in defence has surely got to be better than a 100% midfielder there, especially if it leaves midfield weekened too. Sounds a bit like Klopp is throwing his toys out of the pram if what you say is true.

I just think it's a no win situation. If he achieves top 4, he gets a budget now but they won't back him when needed in the future because he's shown he can do it without. If he doesn't get top 4, he doesn't have a budget but maybe he gets backed next time,if he stays around.

I dont think he's doing anything deliberately. I'm just saying I know if be frustrated if my employer didn't back me after the kind of track record klopp has, so it would make you think why bother.

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Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I can’t find of any team anywhere that has totally collapsed to the extent we have.

Relegation form. Can’t get my head around it.

Biggest challenge of Klopp’s career now.

Obviously injuries and the densely packed season have taken it's toll both physically and mentally, but IMO that doesn't explain everything

11 goals scored in the last 13 PL games (6 of which came in 2 games) and while the 16 conceded in those same games isn't great (although understandable given our defensive injuries) the lack of goals is the much bigger problem, we have failed to score in 7 of those games (5 of which have been at home).

Any energy in terms of tempo or pressing have gone from our game, not sure whether the is purposeful from the manager given the fixtures, is happening from the players because of tiredness or if there is a lack of effort from some.

S-RED · 05-03-21, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

To me its not as penalty ( bit like TAA's vs City last season), but just to show how fucked the rules are one of these is a handball & one is not.

Fredo · 05-03-21, 09:15 AM

It is a penalty for me, as clear as. If it doesn’t hit his hand it’s a pass which could lead to a goal no? One of those moments when you need these kind of decisions going for you which we didn’t get.

Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npinn001

Purely speculative, but I can imagine a world where klopp asked the owners to get him a top class centre back on Jan 1st, and they didn't. He tells them top 4 is going to be tough. They still don't. They he gets one player he won't play and another that seems a bad fit at the end of Jan. And now he's sick of being expected to work miracles when they don't back him so why bother changing things.

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The decision not to sign a CB in summer was complete madness and many of us said that at the time not just with the benefit of hindsight. Not sure what went on in January as the situation seems rather odd, leaving things to the last minute signing 2 players, one not being seen at all. Signing players in Jan was always going to be difficult and options would have been limited.

IMO Kabak was always going to be first choice given that he is a ~£20m player and we had reportedly been interested in him for a while, I have no idea if this was true or just paper BS. But I feel really sorry for him, he's 20 years old, thrown into the side, with no preseason to get to know people or the system, new to the league, playing alongside either a CM or someone with only a handful of games and being billed as the solution to our problems. Look at the way Klopp brings players into the side normally. Under normal circumstances he probably wouldn't have started a league game for us yet, just have been brought on for 10 or 20 mins to get some experience and see out some games. The idea that this is a 6 month trial to earn a permanent move is probably now a nightmare for him. His performances now are in no way indicative of how he would play if he were to partner VVD.

Tribute · 05-03-21, 09:18 AM

Every single player and the manager should be getting stick, not just the new lads. Easy to use them as a scapegoat but if we were playing like we were at the start of last season, Kabak, Davies, Thiago all slot in seamlessly and we probably don't even notice a weakness or drop off in attacking threat.

As it stands, NO-ONE is playing well, they all look shadows of their former selves and it's Klopp's job to do something different, try some new team formation or player rotation to give the opposition at least something to think about.

Every team looking at us now will say 'ball over the top of TAA and we'll win this easy' or 'low block and hit them with pace and they'll suffer because of their high line and slow CBs' - it's predictable as fuck. We have to do something other than throw the same browbeaten eleven on the pitch every game. Start with Ox, Shaq, Jota, Milner, Davies, Keita... change two or three around for Fulham ffs... and put Fabinho back in midfield. There is literally no excuse anymore for it being any worse an outcome... five fucking defeats at home... and with a whimper... disgraceful that.

Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

To be honest I don't think incidents like those should be penalties, he's really close and has no chance of getting his arms out of the way. But what the fuck do I know, I didn't think the Gomez one was handball, the one against Robertson was a foul, or half of the ones Man Utd get are pens. We have seen them given over the last couple of seasons, so on that basis there is a question of consistency and we have a right to complain and feel somewhat upset given how the rules of the game have been fucked up

Kenneth · 05-03-21, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-RED

To me its not as penalty ( bit like TAA's vs City last season), but just to show how fucked the rules are one of these is a handball & one is not.

https://twitter.com/CF_Comps/status/1367586375818616842

Whilst I agree that it probably should have been handball last night, it would have been a soft one. But the other one from the Fulham game wasn't given as a foul for handball, it only counted because of the stupid rule about it touching hands in the build up to a goal that was scored, ie a different rule.

Pepe79 · 05-03-21, 11:09 AM

Jaco_Pastorious · 05-03-21, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

That handball rule was changed during this season so whilst that would have been a penalty at the start of the season, the rule change means that it is not a penalty now.

So technically the correct decision, but would have to ask questions about changing such a rule during an active season as it means teams will have benefitted from the rule earlier in the season and teams will then lose out due to the change later in the same season. Is the sort of rule change that should take place between seasons.

Kenneth · 05-03-21, 11:25 AM

The foul on mane where he stayed on his feet was more of a pen. I'm glad he didn't go down and tried to keep the attack going, but those situations are worth a goal a game for spurs.

Maxiedge · 05-03-21, 11:42 AM

You see defenders in exact same position as Kante with their arms behind their back to block. If it's not a pen and its allowed to hit your arm from that distance, then why bother putting your arms behind your back. So which is it? It's all a load of nonsense.

Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth

The foul on mane where he stayed on his feet was more of a pen. I'm glad he didn't go down and tried to keep the attack going, but those situations are worth a goal a game for spurs.

It's decisions like that which are the reasons that players go to ground under any contact, it was a clear foul but because he stayed on his feet he got nothing. Not sure VAR even reviews those types of decisions if the player doesn't go down. I have no idea what the threshold for a VAR check is.

But as you say Spurs and Man Utd go down and get pens for that (or often less) every couple of games.

Exiled_red · 05-03-21, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiedge

You see defenders in exact same position as Kante with their arms behind their back to block. If it's not a pen and its allowed to hit your arm from that distance, then why bother putting your arms behind your back. So which is it? It's all a load of nonsense.

It's not as simple as one or the other it is a complicated process depending on which teams are involved

Irishnev · 05-03-21, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not much talk this morning of being robbed of a penalty for handball. Yes he was close but BOTH his arms were raised and at angles to make him I bigger target

Similar will he given against us in the next few games no doubtb

I’ve given up on that tbh - I’ve seen about 4 pens given for that and about 4 not (mainly for us). It’s a shit show in a season of absolute shit shows

Scratch · 05-03-21, 04:56 PM

Should be simply really, and independent of distance from the ball...was the arm was in an unnatural position (ie not running, or protecting from a fall/ball to face)? If the answer is yes, then it's a penalty. This crap about he blasted it at him from a yard doesn't matter if the arm should not have been there in the first place.

Norbs · 05-03-21, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiedge

You see defenders in exact same position as Kante with their arms behind their back to block. If it's not a pen and its allowed to hit your arm from that distance, then why bother putting your arms behind your back. So which is it? It's all a load of nonsense.

Norbs · 05-03-21, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev

I’ve given up on that tbh - I’ve seen about 4 pens given for that and about 4 not (mainly for us). It’s a shit show in a season of absolute shit shows

Norbs · 05-03-21, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch

Should be simply really, and independent of distance from the ball...was the arm was in an unnatural position (ie not running, or protecting from a fall/ball to face)? If the answer is yes, then it's a penalty. This crap about he blasted it at him from a yard doesn't matter if the arm should not have been there in the first place.

on what planet do you need your arms in a space invaders pose unless it's to make yourself a bigger target

danperkins · 05-03-21, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishnev

I’ve given up on that tbh - I’ve seen about 4 pens given for that and about 4 not (mainly for us). It’s a shit show in a season of absolute shit shows