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Old 17-10-20, 07:22 PM   #561
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Originally Posted by Corndog View Post
It's not VAR that's the problem though. The error rate overall is down after it's implementation. It's the writing of the law and the subjective element that always exists when humans make the decisions.

I think the offside rule should be updated to be 'only offside from the hip down'

It's natural to start a sprint with your top half slightly forward and I think it's a fair race with defenders if your legs are in line.
Just use feet then.
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Old 17-10-20, 07:23 PM   #562
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I've seen it suggested that both the Mane and VVD offsides were offside because of the new handball rule meaning that you can legally play the ball with the upper part of your arm (to the sleeve line) which also means that that part of your body can be offside, under last season's rule both would have been onside.

Not sure that I can see that Mane's offside even with this interpretation.
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Old 17-10-20, 07:26 PM   #563
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1. If you have to start drawing lines play on

or

2. make the ref decide on the much fabled but rarely used screen
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Old 17-10-20, 07:34 PM   #564
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I think the solution to all of this is that if 2 out of 3 VAR officials cannot decide on an offside ruling within 30 seconds, its deemed to close to call and the decision goes for the attacking team.
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Old 17-10-20, 07:49 PM   #565
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The defenders arse is clearly closer to goal than any part of Mane
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Old 17-10-20, 08:15 PM   #566
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Sheesh, if the PL weren't happy with out attempts to restructure the league, they could have just said so rather than punishing us via some dodgy VAR!
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Old 17-10-20, 10:02 PM   #567
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Fully expect the FA to cover themselves by saying they agree with the refs dcisions and end it there. Wasting our time with this cunts.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:09 PM   #568
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Fully expect the FA to cover themselves by saying they agree with the refs dcisions and end it there. Wasting our time with this cunts.
Most likely outcome, but on decisions like this where the TV guys can't see the offside someone should come out and explain them.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:10 PM   #569
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What did Klopp have to say after the game?
Was posted a bit further up
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Old 17-10-20, 10:13 PM   #570
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I think the solution to all of this is that if 2 out of 3 VAR officials cannot decide on an offside ruling within 30 seconds, its deemed to close to call and the decision goes for the attacking team.


There are so many obvious solutions in a similar vein but a countdown timer is the most obvious one. Put them in separate locations and have a buzzer system.

If they're in the same room then we need to hear the convo.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:15 PM   #571
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Most likely outcome, but on decisions like this where the TV guys can't see the offside someone should come out and explain them.
Yes I think Klopp's reaction to the interviewer after the game has forced their hand, the var ref will get the boot i think.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:26 PM   #572
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Yes I think Klopp's reaction to the interviewer after the game has forced their hand, the var ref will get the boot i think.
I'm not so sure, I think that they may explain or justify the decisions at best. Sacking the VAR official basically admits that they got it wrong which they won't want to do. Imagine we lost out on the title by less than a couple of points and they basically admitted that the VAR official cost us those points. Whether they think he was right or wrong they put themselves in a difficult position if they don't back him.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:41 PM   #573
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I'm not so sure, I think that they may explain or justify the decisions at best. Sacking the VAR official basically admits that they got it wrong which they won't want to do. Imagine we lost out on the title by less than a couple of points and they basically admitted that the VAR official cost us those points. Whether they think he was right or wrong they put themselves in a difficult position if they don't back him.
We lost the title on a lack of VAR, I think I'd prefer that to knowing there was something in place that just failed
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Old 17-10-20, 10:46 PM   #574
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I still have bonce ache from this game & it’s not even from the head butt to the door, it’s hiw wound up I was.
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Old 17-10-20, 10:46 PM   #575
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I'm not so sure, I think that they may explain or justify the decisions at best. Sacking the VAR official basically admits that they got it wrong which they won't want to do. Imagine we lost out on the title by less than a couple of points and they basically admitted that the VAR official cost us those points. Whether they think he was right or wrong they put themselves in a difficult position if they don't back him.
He's previously been dropped for fucking up a decision. Sacking or dropping for a limited period of time admits he was wrong so they can do it if they really want
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Old 17-10-20, 11:02 PM   #576
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He's previously been dropped for fucking up a decision. Sacking or dropping for a limited period of time admits he was wrong so they can do it if they really want
Fair enough, I didn't know that, I assume that was the (Chelsea?) foul that I've seen mentioned. I think that they can afford to admit that he got the VVD - Pickford incident wrong and maybe they could afford to punish him for that as long as it is made clear that it was for that incident. The cynical side of me thinks that they won't admit he was wrong with the Mane call because it affects the result and that puts them in a difficult position, it might even protect him from punishment for the first one, but I could be wrong.
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Old 18-10-20, 06:04 AM   #577
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Just use feet then.
Been saying this from the very beginning.

You're still going to have very close ones, but you don't have to compound the difficulty in adjudicating it by some incompetent prick that probably cant use a computer having to draw lines from shoulder/ armpit (or now the elbow for some reason) down to the ground.

A line across the pitch at their feet (touching the ground) and there is no debate. If its so close that the lines are basically on top of each other with no gap then benefit of the doubt with the attacker.
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Old 18-10-20, 06:14 AM   #578
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Decisions like these cast a doubt over the integrity of football in general & kill it a bit for me every time I see shit like this happen.
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Old 18-10-20, 06:31 AM   #579
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The lack of scrutiny for Pickfords challenge on VVD is unbelievable. The play was live at the time and he mows him down with a career wrecking tackle. And what do the VAR fkrs do, hide their cowardly arses behind a marginal offside. Fkn disgrace! Even Tim Cahill was grilling Dermot Gallagher on it!
I love how they were interrogating that shaved scrote and he was just bumbling over his words doing his best to not say the refs have fucked up. They had him snookered and he just wouldn't say it. Cahill was very good i thought.
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Old 18-10-20, 07:14 AM   #580
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1. If you have to start drawing lines play on

or

2. make the ref decide on the much fabled but rarely used screen
Or have the lines parallel to the box - the fucking line they used was skewed to make it seem offside. Iím still livid about the game this morning
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Old 18-10-20, 07:21 AM   #581
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Yip same here.

Someone posted about the details of the technology they are using too.... The frames per second shit. For me, the whole thing is farcical and they have slightly fucked up their "product"
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Old 18-10-20, 08:01 AM   #582
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That shower of cunts are celebrating a draw 5 games in like its some kind of landmark fucking tramps of football
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Old 18-10-20, 08:31 AM   #583
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Yip same here.

Someone posted about the details of the technology they are using too.... The frames per second shit. For me, the whole thing is farcical and they have slightly fucked up their "product"
I am amazed that no-one has called this out either the clubs in an attempt to challenge it or TV broadcasters having an expert in to discuss it. It's over a year since I posted a crude analysis on here expressing my doubts about this. At the time I had to find the company's website to get details of the system which claimed two speeds of camera 120 fps and 50 fps are used. I did an analysis based on the best case, looking at stuff other people have done since it seems that might have been generous and the analysis is done using the lower frame rate camera. This is a good example https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-...ill-be-correct
but the margin of error calculated only takes into account the attacker running in behind not the defender stepping up so scould still underestimate the uncertainty, and that is assuming that there is no error in determining the appropriate parts of the body to use, the lines being correct and the system being properly calibrated....
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Old 18-10-20, 08:38 AM   #584
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Ian Wright and Alan Shearer in complete agreement with us on the Hendo goal offside and Virgil's injury. Lineker said that no VAR decisions had been overturned yet so it seems a waste of time to call for it to be looked at again
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Old 18-10-20, 08:43 AM   #585
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Ian Wright and Alan Shearer in complete agreement with us on the Hendo goal offside and Virgil's injury. Lineker said that no VAR decisions had been overturned yet so it seems a waste of time to call for it to be looked at again
It's not going to overturn the decisions or the result but hopefully it will pile pressure on about the use of VAR for tight offside calls it is clearly not fit for purpose - it cannot determine offside decisions to the degree off accuracy that they are trying to claim.
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Old 18-10-20, 09:03 AM   #586
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Old 18-10-20, 09:21 AM   #587
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I'd be tempted to walk off the field after kick in our next league game. Pack up, go home and make a real stand. The premier league needs us for its product, let's do our upmost to fuck it up for them. Literally no point in working all week to get shafted by a load of corrupt wankers looking at a monitor.
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Old 18-10-20, 09:47 AM   #588
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You have to go with the infield decision. Then, let the ref look at it. If he feels there is evidence to make him change his mind then do so, if not you stay with on field decision.

You still may get the odd shocker, but ultimately there is accountability (as there used to be if ref made a bad decision). Referee MUST have final say.

It’s not complicated.
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Old 18-10-20, 10:40 AM   #589
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The other thing that annoys me is the idea of precision when there is no possible anatomical precision with terms like armpit or chest etc. Where does the arm end and the shoulder begin? They are fuzzy terms.
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Old 18-10-20, 11:17 AM   #590
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I'd be tempted to walk off the field after kick in our next league game. Pack up, go home and make a real stand. The premier league needs us for its product, let's do our upmost to fuck it up for them. Literally no point in working all week to get shafted by a load of corrupt wankers looking at a monitor.
Or just get Carra out of retirement with instructions to search and destroy Coote the next time he steps onto the pitch for one of our games. A nice two footer and then stand over the top yelling how do you like it you fucking bastard.
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Old 18-10-20, 11:18 AM   #591
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Good idea....

Coote can go fuck himself. The cunt
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Old 18-10-20, 12:15 PM   #592
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I wonder if the deluded ones over at BlueMoon are still going on about LiVARpool after we’ve been shafted in 2 matches in a row?
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Old 18-10-20, 01:22 PM   #593
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Old 18-10-20, 02:02 PM   #594
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Still fairly pissed off about yesterday, not even the Pickford incident, more so the VAR ref chose to freeze the frame when the ball has obviously left Thiago’s foot and still get it wrong, this is not a mistake, it is either cheating or sheer incompetence, either way he should lose his job, it’s just not good enough.. will be interested to see what bullcrap the FA come up with.
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Old 18-10-20, 03:03 PM   #595
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Utterly robbed. What's the point in watching games of they are going to get such clear cut calls wrong? Shambles of a game all round. Dirty gits.
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Old 18-10-20, 03:21 PM   #596
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I have not heard 1 fan of another club who is being honest and has put club rivalries aside,who has backed the pickford assaualt and the offside all have said they where joke decisions that shows how bad it was.

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Old 18-10-20, 03:29 PM   #597
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Utterly robbed. What's the point in watching games of they are going to get such clear cut calls wrong? Shambles of a game all round. Dirty gits.
For a number of years i have been falling out of love with football and it's very rare now that i watch a match that we aren't playing in,and yesterday was just another nail in the coffin.if that offside had been given by the linesman in the past i could deal with that and just say he fucked up and it was a joke,but now with var looking at it (i don't even think any bitter player claimed offside) and still give offside for that i just can't be arsed anymore it just makes you think some are making decisions based on who they support or don't.

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Old 18-10-20, 03:35 PM   #598
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For a number of years i have been falling out of love with football and it's very rare now that i watch a match that we aren't playing in,and yesterday was just another nail in the coffin.if that offside had been given by the linesman in the past i could deal with that and just say he fucked up and it was a joke,but now with var looking at it (i don't even think any bitter player claimed offside) and still give offside for that i just can't be arsed anymore it just makes you think some are making decisions based on who they support or don't.

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totally agree with this, really deflated today & its blatant cheating; not having that it is incompetence at all. This system has been in place for 14 months now, no excuses for the clusterfuck yesterday. Coutts is a cheating cunt, plain & simple

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Old 18-10-20, 03:52 PM   #599
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This might be naive but I don't think that there was any bias or corruption, probably just human error, people not being trained properly and a poor system.

That said I imagine that the human element does leave tight decisions rather uncertain and potentially open to abuse. I imagine that you could probably quite easily pick the wrong frame for when the ball is played or put the lines / markers down slightly in the wrong place. I doubt that there is anyone checking the decision so if you weren't totally impartial manipulate the decision to a desired outcome.
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Old 18-10-20, 03:52 PM   #600
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Dunk has just made the same tackle on Cahill & got a straight red; making my blood boil even more that PRICKford got away with it.
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