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Old 02-03-21, 12:41 PM   #641
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I get that he is a really good player, but this season and in that team as it is currently playing, he is in my view a weak link. His tackling leads to yellow cards and free kicks given away in dangerous positions. His attempts to turn his way out of close attention are being read too easily. And, when I watch closely what he does with the ball, I find his usage is currently less progressive/incisive than the other midfielders' usage.

I think he has found it a really tough start and has started to concentrate mainly on not losing the ball, even when close to the box. We have so much ball ten years outside the box and what we need is someone who the opposition are scared of leaving with the ball in that position.


And yet he is the midfielder who has been dispossessed the least, misplaced the least passes from him, made the most successful passes, and won the most tackles from between him, Wijnaldum and Jones the past five or six games.

Not to mention the fact he is playing a different role to what he played when at Bayern and is primarily being used in a CDM role for us. He is basically being used in the role Fabinho used to play in for us and he is not as good in that role as Fabinho is.

What he has been in most of the games he has played in for us is solid but unspectactular. He is doing all the basics well, and he is recycling the ball better than all our other starting midfielders. Is he racking up goals and assists? No but then again he never did that for Bayern or Barca ether.

Is he finding forward players with passes? Turns out he is and the guy he is finding the most in the final third is Firmino. The guy he was finding the second most in our last game in the final third was Wijnaldum.


So as said he is having solid games and I suspect that if players he was finding in the final third were in turn setting up assists more or scoring more then Thiago might be standing out more as a result.

But as said by a number of folk, the new guys in the team are a bit of a red herring as to why the team looks so disjointed. If we look past the obvious injuries then the new guys like Kabak and Thiago seem to be looked at a lot more as reasons why we are not playing well than guys like Wijnaldum, Milner, Robertson, TAA, Firmino, Mane etc who have underperformed a hell of a lot this season and who have been more guilty of playing it safe, dithering on the ball, misplacing passes, being dispossessed than the new guys still setlling into a new team and country.

If Thiago and Kabak are expected to hit the ground running in a misfiring team, then where are our settled regulars when it comes to doing what we are ecpecting the new guys to be doing?
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Old 03-03-21, 12:58 PM   #642
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And yet he is the midfielder who has been dispossessed the least, misplaced the least passes from him, made the most successful passes, and won the most tackles from between him, Wijnaldum and Jones the past five or six games.

Not to mention the fact he is playing a different role to what he played when at Bayern and is primarily being used in a CDM role for us. He is basically being used in the role Fabinho used to play in for us and he is not as good in that role as Fabinho is.

What he has been in most of the games he has played in for us is solid but unspectactular. He is doing all the basics well, and he is recycling the ball better than all our other starting midfielders. Is he racking up goals and assists? No but then again he never did that for Bayern or Barca ether.

Is he finding forward players with passes? Turns out he is and the guy he is finding the most in the final third is Firmino. The guy he was finding the second most in our last game in the final third was Wijnaldum.


So as said he is having solid games and I suspect that if players he was finding in the final third were in turn setting up assists more or scoring more then Thiago might be standing out more as a result.

But as said by a number of folk, the new guys in the team are a bit of a red herring as to why the team looks so disjointed. If we look past the obvious injuries then the new guys like Kabak and Thiago seem to be looked at a lot more as reasons why we are not playing well than guys like Wijnaldum, Milner, Robertson, TAA, Firmino, Mane etc who have underperformed a hell of a lot this season and who have been more guilty of playing it safe, dithering on the ball, misplacing passes, being dispossessed than the new guys still setlling into a new team and country.

If Thiago and Kabak are expected to hit the ground running in a misfiring team, then where are our settled regulars when it comes to doing what we are ecpecting the new guys to be doing?
Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
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Old 03-03-21, 01:02 PM   #643
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Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
Aye, next season will be the one to judge him on as will have most of the 1st team back...byjasus, we will see a very different player as Thiago will have the season behind him & a full pre-season with us.
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Old 03-03-21, 03:07 PM   #644
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Old 03-03-21, 05:34 PM   #645
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Well said, agree with all of this.

People just choose to see what they want to see and blame 'the new shiny thing' as the reason for this dip in form, when actually they should be looking at the players from last season and beyond, first...
I don't agree: I think the stats quoted just show how easy it is to use stats to support almost any view one might have (Butch Wilkins probably had a high success rate for his passing too, but it was rarely progressive); Gini has been playing defensive midfield in some of the recent games and in at least one other Thiago had to be moved to a more advanced role because he was not able to cope in a covering role forward; and he gave away the freekick against Leicester and it was his header that created the passing opporrtunity for Everton's first goal so, even if I wouldn't put the blame for those goals solely at his feet, I also wouldn't describe his performances as 'solid'.

I do have high hopes for him in a Liverpool shirt and everytime he gets the ball I will him to do something decent with it, but currently he is in the 11 because of a lack of decent alternatives rather than because of his performances.
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Old 03-03-21, 06:37 PM   #646
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I don't agree: I think the stats quoted just show how easy it is to use stats to support almost any view one might have (Butch Wilkins probably had a high success rate for his passing too, but it was rarely progressive); Gini has been playing defensive midfield in some of the recent games and in at least one other Thiago had to be moved to a more advanced role because he was not able to cope in a covering role forward; and he gave away the freekick against Leicester and it was his header that created the passing opporrtunity for Everton's first goal so, even if I wouldn't put the blame for those goals solely at his feet, I also wouldn't describe his performances as 'solid'.

I do have high hopes for him in a Liverpool shirt and everytime he gets the ball I will him to do something decent with it, but currently he is in the 11 because of a lack of decent alternatives rather than because of his performances.

Fine - that’s your opinion, I just disagree.
You can prove anything with stats, and quite right too...

Thiago was moved forward to offer more of an attacking threat than the other two alongside him... to try and unlock some passes to the front three. In my view - and yes, it is my view - he’s coped admirably as a CDM considering it’s not his natural position.

There are plenty of others who have played far worse of late...
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Old 04-03-21, 11:28 PM   #647
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Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
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Old 04-03-21, 11:32 PM   #648
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Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
Agree with that
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Old 04-03-21, 11:39 PM   #649
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Good player.
Just not one for us.
Two good games, 1 vs 10 man Chelsea and the other vs Villa's kids.
He's joined too late in his football career.
The game is too fast and/or physical for him, he's just not got the legs for a Klopp team.
Will he improve when Van Dijk comes back (and by extension Hendo/and Fab in CM)? who knows, especially at this stage of his career. Lets not forget he's not an attacking midfielder, he played as a 6 at Bayern.
He reminds me of Morientes who looked lost.
so far sadly this does look the case. He ll get his chance next season in our proper setup to show his class but thus far he has been pretty dreadful.
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Old 06-03-21, 10:42 AM   #650
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I think he should be dropped. He's too slow in this set up.
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Old 10-03-21, 10:46 PM   #651
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Best performance in a LFC imo
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Old 10-03-21, 10:48 PM   #652
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Wrong thread
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Old 10-03-21, 11:19 PM   #653
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Best performance in a LFC imo
Nah, that was vs the Bitters before he got hacked but he was very good today.
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Old 11-03-21, 05:32 AM   #654
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Much better today with Fab in the No6 shirt. More of a free role although TAA seemed exposed at times, which may have been down to him.
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Old 11-03-21, 09:00 AM   #655
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Much better today with Fab in the No6 shirt. More of a free role although TAA seemed exposed at times, which may have been down to him.
TAA exposed at times is down to TAA in fairness... his positioning play defensively is total crap.

As much as Trent was better going forward last night, he's still always way out of position for the long ball over the top down our right hand side
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Old 11-03-21, 09:05 AM   #656
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TAA exposed at times is down to TAA in fairness... his positioning play defensively is total crap.

As much as Trent was better going forward last night, he's still always way out of position for the long ball over the top down our right hand side
He is ‘out of position’ because he is told to play high. The issue was the ball wasn’t always sticking up top and when it broke down their CBs launched into that space for Nkunku who was supposed to be their out ball - lucky he was wasteful
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Old 11-03-21, 09:21 AM   #657
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Trent has been targeted all season unfortunately. That diagonal over the top or looking to break down his side is a ploy used by several teams this season with much success. I suspect Wolves will try similar too.
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Old 11-03-21, 09:39 AM   #658
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Trent has been targeted all season unfortunately. That diagonal over the top or looking to break down his side is a ploy used by several teams this season with much success. I suspect Wolves will try similar too.
It's not a problem most times. I'd love to see statistics of goals conceded from that side. Only goal I can recall is the one Mount scored and even then, we had enough bodies to stop that goal.
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Old 11-03-21, 09:55 AM   #659
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It's not a problem most times. I'd love to see statistics of goals conceded from that side. Only goal I can recall is the one Mount scored and even then, we had enough bodies to stop that goal.
It's still a problem though, teams have been targeting him and the space beside and behind him. Just because the likes of Nkunku & Lookman in the last two games in particular haven't actually had a goal or an assist doesn't mean it is not an issue, we've just been a bit lucky.

He has never been the greatest defender but his attacking production made up for that, now he is not getting attacking numbers & has a new CB beside him in most games. It is an area that has absolutely been targeted and rightly so as it is an area that can be exposed.
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Old 11-03-21, 09:59 AM   #660
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It's still a problem though, teams have been targeting him and the space beside and behind him. Just because the likes of Nkunku & Lookman in the last two games in particular haven't actually had a goal or an assist doesn't mean it is not an issue, we've just been a bit lucky.

He has never been the greatest defender but his attacking production made up for that, now he is not getting attacking numbers & has a new CB beside him in most games. It is an area that has absolutely been targeted and rightly so as it is an area that can be exposed.
It becomes less of an issue when you have midfielders in there who are willing to plug those gaps though, that's what Fabinho and Henderson have done in previous years, we haven't had that this season. Hopefully with Fab back in midfield that will be less of an issue.
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Old 11-03-21, 10:15 AM   #661
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It becomes less of an issue when you have midfielders in there who are willing to plug those gaps though, that's what Fabinho and Henderson have done in previous years, we haven't had that this season. Hopefully with Fab back in midfield that will be less of an issue.


Totally agree. The defensive injuries have been a total ballache this season......but the fact that we have had to remove midfielders to plug that gap has hurt us big time too. The fact that Henderson and Fabinho have also both missed a lot of games with injury just further compounds the whole thing.

Some people on here (Jaco I think most vocal??) have been saying for weeks - just play Fabinho and Henderson in midfield and it will protect the defense more. Even if that means Phillips and Williams at CB, then so be in. I never agreed to be honest. The fact that the 12 year old Villa fella left Williams for dead kind of validated that for me. However, in hindsight - i think it was totally correct. They help break up the play a million times better and in turn the transition into the attacking players is quicker and we are fuckin in. If we had our shooting boots on last night, then we could have had 5 or 6. In the champions league knock out phase?!?!

So I still have faith in Thiago coming good to be honest. He is too fuckin good not to. When our 3 CBs were injured, it meant that Fabinho and Hendo have had to deputise. But Thiago and Gini debutising for Fab and Hendo have taken from their games.

Last night we saw fuckin everyone playing in their natural and favoured positions. And the difference was amazing.
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Old 11-03-21, 11:40 AM   #662
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It becomes less of an issue when you have midfielders in there who are willing to plug those gaps though, that's what Fabinho and Henderson have done in previous years, we haven't had that this season. Hopefully with Fab back in midfield that will be less of an issue.
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Totally agree. The defensive injuries have been a total ballache this season......but the fact that we have had to remove midfielders to plug that gap has hurt us big time too. The fact that Henderson and Fabinho have also both missed a lot of games with injury just further compounds the whole thing.

Some people on here (Jaco I think most vocal??) have been saying for weeks - just play Fabinho and Henderson in midfield and it will protect the defense more. Even if that means Phillips and Williams at CB, then so be in. I never agreed to be honest. The fact that the 12 year old Villa fella left Williams for dead kind of validated that for me. However, in hindsight - i think it was totally correct. They help break up the play a million times better and in turn the transition into the attacking players is quicker and we are fuckin in. If we had our shooting boots on last night, then we could have had 5 or 6. In the champions league knock out phase?!?!

So I still have faith in Thiago coming good to be honest. He is too fuckin good not to. When our 3 CBs were injured, it meant that Fabinho and Hendo have had to deputise. But Thiago and Gini debutising for Fab and Hendo have taken from their games.

Last night we saw fuckin everyone playing in their natural and favoured positions. And the difference was amazing.
It wasn’t a ‘problem’ when all players were fit, the defence were in synch with the midfield and the midfield were constantly rotated to cover their workload
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Old 11-03-21, 12:00 PM   #663
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But surely when either fullback gets forward someone has to drop to cover the hole he’s left? With the constant changes in midfield perhaps that’s a big part of the problem? Gini is always thereabouts helping out predominantly on the left side & when Hendo plays he is too but I do agree TAA is not the best defender in our team but he’s under orders to get forward to whip in crosses. So who fills in then? RM?
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Old 11-03-21, 12:09 PM   #664
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But surely when either fullback gets forward someone has to drop to cover the hole he’s left? With the constant changes in midfield perhaps that’s a big part of the problem? Gini is always thereabouts helping out predominantly on the left side & when Hendo plays he is too but I do agree TAA is not the best defender in our team but he’s under orders to get forward to whip in crosses. So who fills in then? RM?
In the case of Trent being out of position because he is making it rain further up the pitch, then I think it was a combination of Joe Gomez, Fabinho and Henderson all covering. They all had different priorities depending on the exact scenario and it was a fuckin machine.

When Gomez, Fabinho and Henderson are all injured, then it is inevitable that new personnel aren't up to speed. The understanding developed between Hendo, Fab and the defence has been a few years of high quality work. Remember when Jurgen had the luxury of slowly integrating both Fabinho and Robbo into the side??? That is probably because it takes hours and hours of work on the training field for the team to be in sync with each other.
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Old 11-03-21, 12:14 PM   #665
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That jumping scissor kick would have been an amazing assist.
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Old 11-03-21, 12:32 PM   #666
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It made a massive difference for him having Fabinho in there doing the defensive stuff. Looked much more like the player we know he is.
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Old 11-03-21, 01:00 PM   #667
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He is ‘out of position’ because he is told to play high. The issue was the ball wasn’t always sticking up top and when it broke down their CBs launched into that space for Nkunku who was supposed to be their out ball - lucky he was wasteful

Another part of it was TAA was moving into the space being left by Phillips. A lot of the time last night when our right flank was exposed, TAA was almost in the RCB position and Phillips was still coming back from an advanced position, so it looked like TAA was trying to do his bit to help the less experienced player out.
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Old 11-03-21, 01:07 PM   #668
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Another part of it was TAA was moving into the space being left by Phillips. A lot of the time last night when our right flank was exposed, TAA was almost in the RCB position and Phillips was still coming back from an advanced position, so it looked like TAA was trying to do his bit to help the less experienced player out.
Noticed that also - Phillips ‘galloping’ back into position
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Old 11-03-21, 02:12 PM   #669
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It becomes less of an issue when you have midfielders in there who are willing to plug those gaps though, that's what Fabinho and Henderson have done in previous years, we haven't had that this season. Hopefully with Fab back in midfield that will be less of an issue.
absolutely
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Old 11-03-21, 10:15 PM   #670
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In the case of Trent being out of position because he is making it rain further up the pitch, then I think it was a combination of Joe Gomez, Fabinho and Henderson all covering. They all had different priorities depending on the exact scenario and it was a fuckin machine.

When Gomez, Fabinho and Henderson are all injured, then it is inevitable that new personnel aren't up to speed. The understanding developed between Hendo, Fab and the defence has been a few years of high quality work. Remember when Jurgen had the luxury of slowly integrating both Fabinho and Robbo into the side??? That is probably because it takes hours and hours of work on the training field for the team to be in sync with each other.
Good observations. So I suppose Curtis Jones & James Milner having been in & out of the side are the next two on the list I suppose in seniority to learn Klopps expectations of them covering for TAA which we’ve missed too.
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Old 25-03-21, 11:21 AM   #671
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Old 25-03-21, 11:35 AM   #672
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He didn't use his left foot once to pass.
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Old 25-03-21, 03:36 PM   #673
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Bet hes shit when its cold and raining.
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Old 26-03-21, 02:08 PM   #674
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He's easily most technically-gifted midfielder at the club. He's a joy to watch when he's got some CDMs around him and a bit of space... plus he's got a bit of bite to him... we've been missing that with our 'nicey-nicey' midfield...
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Old 10-04-21, 06:52 PM   #675
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For such a fantastic footballer, his lack of speed across the ground is quite staggering.
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Old 10-04-21, 07:17 PM   #676
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Never thought he had any speed to be honest, before he signed for us. He's always been talked about for his passing. It's not an issue in the position he plays.
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Old 10-04-21, 07:19 PM   #677
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Aye I don't think we bought him for his pace but he's a very different type of CM to the ones we've been using. I still think with everyone back next season and a solid run of games alongside Fab and AN Other and he'll be like a new player.
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Old 10-04-21, 07:38 PM   #678
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Aye I don't think we bought him for his pace but he's a very different type of CM to the ones we've been using. I still think with everyone back next season and a solid run of games alongside Fab and AN Other and he'll be like a new player.
I hope so Fab alongside Hendo is probably the best legs in the middle with the players we've got but as things stand I think his lack of legs is costing us in our pressing game as he just can't get around quick enough.
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Old 10-04-21, 07:40 PM   #679
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Yeah that's fair. I forgot about Hendo.

His and Fab's legs alongside Thiago ought to be the dream ticket tbh.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:20 PM   #680
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...from memory, Molby didn’t move a lot either
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