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Old 07-12-19, 11:22 AM   #481
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Ok, fair enough.
hew:

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Old 07-12-19, 11:33 AM   #482
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I think Kenneth does allude to a good point iro the Premier League's application of VAR though.

The referee's decision has always been final until now.

The assistant referees have always been just that. Providing guidance, but not a final decision.

The VARs (Video Assistant Referees) should also be used in same manner. To provide guidance, and not to make the final decision.

In fact, the opposite is happening. I think referees absolutely should consult the monitor and make the call themselves. To not do that undermines them.
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Old 07-12-19, 11:39 AM   #483
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I think Kenneth does allude to a good point iro the Premier League's application of VAR
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Old 07-12-19, 11:51 AM   #484
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So is it the flag or the whistle?
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Old 07-12-19, 12:09 PM   #485
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So is it the flag or the whistle?
Thistle
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Old 07-12-19, 01:16 PM   #486
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I think Kenneth does allude to a good point iro the Premier League's application of VAR though.

The referee's decision has always been final until now.

The assistant referees have always been just that. Providing guidance, but not a final decision.

The VARs (Video Assistant Referees) should also be used in same manner. To provide guidance, and not to make the final decision.

In fact, the opposite is happening. I think referees absolutely should consult the monitor and make the call themselves. To not do that undermines them.
Technically isn't it still the referee making the decision? A goal/decision isn't made until the referee makes the VAR symbol and awards the goal/decision.

Aren't they just taking 'advice' from VAR?
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Old 07-12-19, 01:30 PM   #487
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Technically isn't it still the referee making the decision? A goal/decision isn't made until the referee makes the VAR symbol and awards the goal/decision.



Aren't they just taking 'advice' from VAR?
Right, but if they're taking the VAR decision as read each time without question, then it's a bit academic isn't it?
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Old 07-12-19, 01:33 PM   #488
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Technically isn't it still the referee making the decision? A goal/decision isn't made until the referee makes the VAR symbol and awards the goal/decision.

Aren't they just taking 'advice' from VAR?
No. Not in The PL. The ref can be overruled by VAR. Not like in the world cup where they advise the ref to review monitors. That's the genesis of the clear and obvious implementation of VAR.

The ref makes the VAR symbol under the advice that they are reviewing something.
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Old 07-12-19, 01:36 PM   #489
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Getting back to the lineman's role without going around in circles. I get why people think they are pointless now but they aren't. They still signal for various decisions, ie throw ins (and direction), corners, fouls etc. Its why the correct term is assistant referee. But they can always be overruled on any decision.

They'll always exist. The same can't be said for those pointless penalty refs that were trailed a few years back.

Quite why Riley thinks it's a good idea to flag before the ball ends up dead I don't know. Its stupid and I reckon this season will be the last we see of it.
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Old 07-12-19, 02:57 PM   #490
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Have they now binned this farcical 1st and 2nd stage of play bollocks?
I have seen recent offsides given when the 'offending' player is miles away from the action and out on the wing, which really makes no sense either.
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Old 16-12-19, 02:21 PM   #491
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This is what I thought we would be getting.....

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Old 16-12-19, 02:25 PM   #492
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The Rugby way. Everything is 100% transparent. Even if you don’t agree, at least you know what the ref is thinking.

We’d have had VAR implemented perfectly between us Nev.
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Old 16-12-19, 02:30 PM   #493
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The Rugby way. Everything is 100% transparent. Even if you don’t agree, at least you know what the ref is thinking.

We’d have had VAR implemented perfectly between us Nev.
a balance between eternal optimism and irrational pessimism would get the right results
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Old 16-12-19, 02:39 PM   #494
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a balance between eternal optimism and irrational pessimism would get the right results


“This is going to be amazing”

“I don’t think this is going to work”

We’d get there in the end.
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Old 16-12-19, 03:41 PM   #495
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'do you want me to come across and sell it's

:Haha:

Has there been any follow up regarding Manes offside goal on Saturday?

Didn't see any angle where he appeared to be conclusively offisde.
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Old 16-12-19, 06:10 PM   #496
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“This is going to be amazing”

“I don’t think this is going to work”

We’d get there in the end.
That is me at work - going through the daily emotional rollercoaster that comes with managing big pieces of work
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Old 16-12-19, 09:10 PM   #497
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'do you want me to come across and sell it's

:Haha:

Has there been any follow up regarding Manes offside goal on Saturday?

Didn't see any angle where he appeared to be conclusively offisde.
I thought that it was interesting that it wasn't even discussed on MOTD aside from the commentary, it's as if they are now just accepting it without any questions.
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Old 16-12-19, 09:38 PM   #498
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It wasn't really questionable though, it was pretty obviously offside imo.

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Old 17-12-19, 06:10 AM   #499
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This is what I thought we would be getting.....

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/...02376734691329
The problem is that was a one off and it wasn’t live during the game if I remember correctly. They only showed that, the refs comments, after the game plus I was there live and we didn’t know what was going on. Correct decision but we had no idea what was going on and we all thought it was going to be disallowed.

I agree we need to hear what’s happening both at the ground and on tv.
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Old 17-12-19, 08:19 AM   #500
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The problem is that was a one off and it wasn’t live during the game if I remember correctly. They only showed that, the refs comments, after the game plus I was there live and we didn’t know what was going on. Correct decision but we had no idea what was going on and we all thought it was going to be disallowed.

I agree we need to hear what’s happening both at the ground and on tv.
Aha - I didn’t know that..i assumed that was common place
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Old 17-12-19, 10:39 AM   #501
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It wasn't really questionable though, it was pretty obviously offside imo.

It looks it there, but the other view he looked on
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Old 17-12-19, 11:18 AM   #502
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This is what I thought we would be getting.....

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/...02376734691329
Jarred Gillett - he's refereeing in the Championship (and done VAR for the PL).

https://www.transfermarkt.com/jarred...dsrichter/4929

This is worth a watch (think I might have posted a few months ago). Respect for the ref...

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/jar...e-game-weekend


And apparently he's one of us... so he won't be refereeing any of our games.
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Old 17-12-19, 11:36 AM   #503
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It wasn't really questionable though, it was pretty obviously offside imo.

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It looks it there, but the other view he looked on
Just before the ball was crossed he was in an offside position by around 1 metre. He moved fractionally onside when the ball was crossed and played the ball. So it is offside for me
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Old 17-12-19, 12:11 PM   #504
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Just before the ball was crossed he was in an offside position by around 1 metre. He moved fractionally onside when the ball was crossed and played the ball. So it is offside for me
Eh? He was onside when the ball was played so he's offside
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Old 17-12-19, 02:07 PM   #505
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Obviously a typo
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Old 17-12-19, 06:45 PM   #506
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The moment of ‘release’ is totally debatable.

Given the ball hair accuracy they are aiming for with the ‘level’ or ‘off’ needs to be based on when the pass is made but we see no evidence of how this is gauged at all. Surely they should also be slowing down and zooming in for this also?

It is a totally flawed system as things stand.
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Old 17-12-19, 09:40 PM   #507
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The moment of ‘release’ is totally debatable.

It certainly is in that picture - I'd say the ball's well and truly on its' way. The frame needs dialling back about 1/100th of a second.
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Old 18-12-19, 06:25 AM   #508
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The moment of ‘release’ is totally debatable.

Given the ball hair accuracy they are aiming for with the ‘level’ or ‘off’ needs to be based on when the pass is made but we see no evidence of how this is gauged at all. Surely they should also be slowing down and zooming in for this also?

It is a totally flawed system as things stand.
Yeah that still image above looks like the ball is well off his foot and its something they never ever look at in the microscopic detail they look at the armpit and toes of the goalscorers as you said. Its flawed all round.

For these minimal decisions they should be looking at both
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Old 18-12-19, 06:27 AM   #509
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It certainly is in that picture - I'd say the ball's well and truly on its' way. The frame needs dialling back about 1/100th of a second.
Yeah the balls clearly in the air by a good 500mm or half a Shaqiri in football measurements.
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Old 18-12-19, 07:28 AM   #510
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They should be recording the game at 1,000 frames per second and using that.

I used to love the Sky Sports super slow motion and wondered why it wasn't available everywhere.
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Old 29-12-19, 01:41 AM   #511
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3 shockers today.
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Old 29-12-19, 02:45 AM   #512
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When it comes to offside these off by a toe nail decisions need to be fucked off and just left to the on field officials. The linesman is in line with play and it should be left to him to make the decision and VAR should only be getting involved if it is as clear as day the player is off and the lineman has missed it.
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Old 29-12-19, 04:41 AM   #513
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Gnat's dick decisions are tedious and are killing the game.
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Old 29-12-19, 09:31 AM   #514
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They should just fuck this measure from the armpit shit off. It's laughable and is pure guesswork with tv cameras and perspective distorting things. Measure from the players feet. Thats were they are in actual contact with the pitch and therefore its the easiest part to measure. Even these imbeciles couldn't fuck that up. In fact when you look at the feet you don't even need to draw the line most of the time (unless they're on opposite sides of the pitch)

Pukki was onside, how anyone can claim he wasn't is beyond me. Its an absolute joke.
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Old 29-12-19, 10:29 AM   #515
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They should just fuck this measure from the armpit shit off. It's laughable and is pure guesswork with tv cameras and perspective distorting things. Measure from the players feet. Thats were they are in actual contact with the pitch and therefore its the easiest part to measure. Even these imbeciles couldn't fuck that up. In fact when you look at the feet you don't even need to draw the line most of the time (unless they're on opposite sides of the pitch)

Pukki was onside, how anyone can claim he wasn't is beyond me. Its an absolute joke.
The problem is that was how offsides were agreed to be adjudged at the begining of the season.

You can't now change the rules half way through the seasons.

I suspect we'll see fairly dramatic changes in the summer.

What I'm more surprised is that they're relying on humans to make offsides that are coming down to millimetres

Why hasn't a Hawkeye type system being implemented ot make these judgement calls
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Old 29-12-19, 11:08 AM   #516
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They should just fuck this measure from the armpit shit off. It's laughable and is pure guesswork with tv cameras and perspective distorting things. Measure from the players feet. Thats were they are in actual contact with the pitch and therefore its the easiest part to measure. Even these imbeciles couldn't fuck that up. In fact when you look at the feet you don't even need to draw the line most of the time (unless they're on opposite sides of the pitch)

Pukki was onside, how anyone can claim he wasn't is beyond me. Its an absolute joke.
Whilst i totally agree with this, the media have been told that as you can score with any part of your body, the offside rule needs to match this criteria........ pure stupidity & madness, but thats the FA/Prem stance on it.
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Old 29-12-19, 06:31 PM   #517
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Liverpool goal definitely should have stood
Wolves offside at the point the freeze frame was shown.

Problem is we now have technology the laws are not for for purpose. We can slow the footage down to what, 60fps? What point is the ball 'played'? Is it the frame at which the bodily contact with the ball first occurs, is it the first frame at which the contact between player and ball ceases? At walking pace of 4 mph you would cover 2.9 cm in a single frame if 60 fps. That's a hell of a distance if the foot and ball are in contact for 5 frames and if the player is running its even more
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Old 29-12-19, 06:59 PM   #518
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Liverpool goal definitely should have stood
Wolves offside at the point the freeze frame was shown.

Problem is we now have technology the laws are not for for purpose. We can slow the footage down to what, 60fps? What point is the ball 'played'? Is it the frame at which the bodily contact with the ball first occurs, is it the first frame at which the contact between player and ball ceases? At walking pace of 4 mph you would cover 2.9 cm in a single frame if 60 fps. That's a hell of a distance if the foot and ball are in contact for 5 frames and if the player is running its even more
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Old 29-12-19, 07:54 PM   #519
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The problem with our goal is that the referee blew his whistle before the ball hit the net and players play to the whistle
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Old 29-12-19, 08:28 PM   #520
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The problem with our goal is that the referee blew his whistle before the ball hit the net and players play to the whistle
Whistle was after the ball crossed the line. Otherwise VAR couldn’t have intervened.
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