Manchester United

Alex · 16-12-11, 11:29 AM

Are they on the decline, or is it a case of AF simply rebuilding again? Had this discussion the other night. A few of Man Utd fans I know now think Ferguson has had his years in the sun, and is not going to be the man too take them forward to another title.

Last season they were not good at all, best of a bad bunch really, this season they started well but have stuttered badly.

Thoughts

Did you know in the last 3 1/2 seasons Ferguson has names only 2 unchanged sides? Mad when you consider the stick Rafa and Ranieri got about rotation

RichC · 16-12-11, 11:46 AM

I think it'll be hard for Fergie to build again now, age is going to go against him he's almost 70 now but hard to write him off completely.

As much as it pains me to say he's got an amazing knack of getting the very best out of his sides even when they're clearly not that good he finds a way to get them on a run of results I mean even this season they're still only 2 points of City whilst quality wise far,far inferior to them.

Vermilion · 16-12-11, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcasemore

I think it'll be hard for Fergie to build again now, age is going to go against him he's almost 70 now but hard to write him off completely.

As much as it pains me to say he's got an amazing knack of getting the very best out of his sides even when they're clearly not that good he finds a way to get them on a run of results I mean even this season they're still only 2 points of City whilst quality wise far,far inferior to them.

Yep, but he also has an amazing knack of having his shittier seasons/sides coincide with every other top team being in transition, or in turmoil one way or another!

Timing has been everything in his long reign, and not a lot of it planned that way either.

But yeah, grudgingly, he has done a decent job too, but by fuck has he been lucky and helped along the way too.

Shanks · 16-12-11, 11:54 AM

They need to spend on a creative midfileder and a striker..

Can't rely on Rooney..

If they don't, then they may start to slip away.. For the first time in a while teams will be going to OT knowing they can get something..

The problem is ours, Arsenal and Spurs inconsistency, that's keeping them were they are.

PTP · 16-12-11, 11:56 AM

for years i've said united are starting to show cracks etc and they always come back!

fucking cunts!

i won't start believing it till it happens

the big thing is fergie and what he leaves behind - if he leaves a good squad, they have money to spend and bring in someone like Mourinho, then they will be ok...

however ideal situation would be that he goes, giggs retires, vidic leaves, rooney wants out, ferdinand moves on and they appoint someone like Moyes

Lee · 16-12-11, 12:01 PM

I have nothing to add to this thread other than that they're a cunt of a club.

lickedlollipop · 16-12-11, 12:06 PM

^^

end.

Alex · 16-12-11, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I have nothing to add to this thread other than that they're a cunt of a club.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lickedlollipop

^^

end.

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Lee · 16-12-11, 12:14 PM

To be honest mate I don't think they're on the decline at all. City and Spurs have got stronger, Arsenal got stronger under Wenger years ago and Chelsea have been a bit of a force since 2003.

Perhaps United haven't pulled away as far as they should have but they're still up there.

People thought they were on the decline when Cantona left, Stam, van Nistelrooy, Beckham etc. End of the day Ferguson - although he's a cunt - is a fantastic manager. I don't think they'll win the title this season or next (City will probably do that now), but they'll always finish top two or three.

Alex · 16-12-11, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

To be honest mate I don't think they're on the decline at all. City and Spurs have got stronger, Arsenal got stronger under Wenger years ago and Chelsea have been a bit of a force since 2003.

Perhaps United haven't pulled away as far as they should have but they're still up there.

People thought they were on the decline when Cantona left, Stam, van Nistelrooy, Beckham etc. End of the day Ferguson - although he's a cunt - is a fantastic manager. I don't think they'll win the title this season or next (City will probably do that now), but they'll always finish top two or three.

People always thought that about us though.

Lee · 16-12-11, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

People always thought that about us though.

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

They'll be top two or three for the foreseeable.

dww · 16-12-11, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Are they on the decline, or is it a case of AF simply rebuilding again? Had this discussion the other night. A few of Man Utd fans I know now think Ferguson has had his years in the sun, and is not going to be the man too take them forward to another title.

Last season they were not good at all, best of a bad bunch really, this season they started well but have stuttered badly.

Thoughts

Did you know in the last 3 1/2 seasons Ferguson has names only 2 unchanged sides? Mad when you consider the stick Rafa and Ranieri got about rotation

I think he thought Cleverly would go a long way to knitting their team together (and it looked like he was right before his injury). Since he has been out they have reverted to the dull team that won the league but was 3rd best to Barcelona in the CL final.

The problem is that there will be no big funds for a rebuild given their debt burden. The CM they need now more than ever with Fletchers injury will be very expensive. In the past one of Ferguson's biggest talents has been getting in and developing players with the right mentality. Very few good enough CMs with that knack around.

I honestly think given the circumstances he would do as well as anyone rebuilding the current side.

JohnDoe · 16-12-11, 12:38 PM

They're on pace for over 90 points in the season. They're just two points off 1st place. They looked much worse last season and won the title.

I don't see a decline.

Chris · 16-12-11, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

They're on pace for over 90 points in the season. They're just two points off 1st place. They looked much worse last season and won the title.

I don't see a decline.

Their squad clearly has been compared to previous years, you'd look around and see world class players eveywhere, VDS, Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney, prime Ferdinand, prime Evra, you dont anymore. They still have plenty of quality though, are in a weak league and have that brilliant mentality which will keep them going for a while yet.

RichC · 16-12-11, 12:42 PM

thing is even though their squad is weaker they still get the results.

Reece · 16-12-11, 12:45 PM

They have Phil Jones now. Everything else is a mute point.

Resu · 16-12-11, 12:46 PM

How are they doing debtwise? Havn`t herad much about that lately, for all the talk about the Glaziers bleeding the club they always finds money to strengthen.

Alex · 16-12-11, 12:48 PM

I think they are slowly coming out of it. Slowly mind.

JohnDoe · 16-12-11, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Their squad clearly has been compared to previous years, you'd look around and see world class players eveywhere, VDS, Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney, prime Ferdinand, prime Evra, you dont anymore. They still have plenty of quality though, are in a weak league and have that brilliant mentality which will keep them going for a while yet.

The league has weakened as a whole over the last couple of years, but the mancs still find themselves in a very strong position to continue winning titles. I really can't say they're on the decline just because they're not the elite team they were when Ronaldo played for them. In comparison to other sides like Chelsea, Arsenal and us, they've done exceptionally well to solidify themselves.

Darkon · 16-12-11, 12:51 PM

They are far from finished IMO, although they have a weaker squad than before they still have one of the best managers in the world, if not the best. Ferguson is just fantastic at getting the most out of average players and a very good tactician, so I don't reckon they are on a decline as such. More of a transition phase.

And they are second right now 2 points of a Man City team that have only lost 1 game this season, so they are clearly still conteders - unfortunatly :/

Imy · 16-12-11, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTP

for years i've said united are starting to show cracks etc and they always come back!

fucking cunts!

i won't start believing it till it happens

the big thing is fergie and what he leaves behind - if he leaves a good squad, they have money to spend and bring in someone like Mourinho, then they will be ok...

however ideal situation would be that he goes, giggs retires, vidic leaves, rooney wants out, ferdinand moves on and they appoint someone like Moyes

Ideally they'll appoint Manchester United old boy Steve Bruce

lickedlollipop · 16-12-11, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Exiled_red · 16-12-11, 02:49 PM

I don't think this Man Utd team have the quality of some of their past teams. But they have the team spirit / ability / luck that allows them to nick a win when they haven't played well. How many times have they done that over the last few years and got scruffy 1-0 wins? As long as they can keep doing that they'll be a threat.

wavydavy · 06-01-12, 06:38 PM

Very untypical dig at Ferguson. The wind of change?

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...OIRYvc.twitter

Red_Polo · 06-01-12, 06:44 PM

That's from September 2010, wavy - have you linked the right thing?

Chazza · 06-01-12, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavydavy

Very untypical dig at Ferguson. The wind of change?

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...OIRYvc.twitter

Written in Sept 2010 that one

wavydavy · 06-01-12, 06:49 PM

Got sent it and didn't read it properly.Thought it was recent given the old twat dying and all. Sorry

lfcred · 07-01-12, 12:52 PM

not going to be long before they start declining even more in my opinion! i thikn ferguson might be slowly losing his touch, and i think other clubs will be getting more investment in them in the future! might be time for ferguson to go before he ends on a low note!

lickedlollipop · 07-01-12, 01:14 PM

^^

proved us wrong many many many times.

kris90210 · 07-01-12, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lickedlollipop

^^

proved us wrong many many many times.

Exactly. They always find a way of punching above their weight. You've got to give it to Ferguson - he's a hell of a manager. They will be there or thereabouts until the day he retires, then we might see them decline in the face of Chelsea and Man City's millions.

fah-q · 07-01-12, 01:38 PM

Rumours on twitter that Scholes is going to come out of retirement to ease their injury/crapness in midfield crisis. Probably a joke mind.

Kenneth · 07-01-12, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fah-q

Rumours on twitter that Scholes is going to come out of retirement to ease their injury/crapness in midfield crisis. Probably a joke mind.

Either way.

ChesterDave · 07-01-12, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fah-q

Rumours on twitter that Scholes is going to come out of retirement to ease their injury/crapness in midfield crisis. Probably a joke mind.

Would be fun to see Gary Neville commenting on his glorious performances and how he'd give him a big sloppy kiss for that great pass/goal/foul.

Robbie-9-Fowler · 07-01-12, 03:44 PM

It's all going to depend on how well they replace the likes of Giggs, Ferdinand and keeping hold of the likes of Rooney and Vidic.

They lack a central midfielder in the ilk of Sneijder or Modric, can see them going after someone young like Erickson.

They've got a problem with the amount of injury prone and older players they've got too;

Ferdinand
Rafael
Fabio
Fletcher
Giggs
Owen
Evans
Vidic - seems to miss a fair few games each season too

Not forgetting there annual Rooney problems, which see's him going on a poor run for 3/4 months. Yet somehow they still manage to grind out results

Muddled · 07-01-12, 03:50 PM

I think Vidic is getting on a bit now and I think they would have looked to sell him at the end of this season, if he hadn't got injured and Evans is wank. They need to address their defence as much as they have to address their midfield.

Robbie-9-Fowler · 07-01-12, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddled

I think Vidic is getting on a bit now and I think they would have looked to sell him at the end of this season, if he hadn't got injured and Evans is wank. They need to address their defence as much as they have to address their midfield.

especially with Jones looking better further forward than at CB and Evra has made one of the most dramatic falls from grace I can remember for a United player. Horrible season and a half from him, not half the player he once was.

peekay · 08-01-12, 01:54 AM

Remember after Rafa's second season how we used to feel invincible in Europe. We did not care about the injuries, which team we played. We ( the fans, the players, the club) felt that we could go anywhere in Europe - Barcelona, Madrid, Milan - and pull out a result when needed. That sort of mentality is priceless and enabled us to become the most feared team in europe. It took a pair of gigantic moron of owners to pull us down from that mentality.

Mancs have the same in the premier league built over two decades. They start every season expecting to win it. Irrespective of the injuries and the signings, they are able to wipe the floor with teams placed 5 to 15 because of the mentality. As long as they have that mentality they will always be in the top 2.

lackyboy · 08-01-12, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peekay

Remember after Rafa's second season how we used to feel invincible in Europe. We did not care about the injuries, which team we played. We ( the fans, the players, the club) felt that we could go anywhere in Europe - Barcelona, Madrid, Milan - and pull out a result when needed. That sort of mentality is priceless and enabled us to become the most feared team in europe. It took a pair of gigantic moron of owners to pull us down from that mentality.

Mancs have the same in the premier league built over two decades. They start every season expecting to win it. Irrespective of the injuries and the signings, they are able to wipe the floor with teams placed 5 to 15 because of the mentality. As long as they have that mentality they will always be in the top 2.

I think your right there Peekay, teams who acually attack utd and don't sit back, often come out with better results - especially at the moment with their makeshift defence. They do have quality throughout without question, but if some of the lesser teams had the mentality to go 35/65 instead of 20/80 in terms of attack, I think they may struggle. Utd seeem to enjoy teams parking the bus (as opposed to us!)

Gingawaria · 08-01-12, 11:36 AM

I look at their team compared to ours and I seriously struggle to see how they're so far ahead of us. A manc friend of mine was laughing at Adam and Spearing in midfield against Newcastle the other week saying we're never going to win anything with them in the side. Compared to theirs? They've been playing with Phil Jones at centre mid, a player they bought as a centre back?!!?

Exiled_red · 08-01-12, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lackyboy

I think your right there Peekay, teams who acually attack utd and don't sit back, often come out with better results - especially at the moment with their makeshift defence. They do have quality throughout without question, but if some of the lesser teams had the mentality to go 35/65 instead of 20/80 in terms of attack, I think they may struggle. Utd seeem to enjoy teams parking the bus (as opposed to us!)