CL Final Liverpool v Real Madrid (Paris)

Buzzo · 23-05-22, 10:02 AM

Feels a bit flat given we are 6 days away from one of the biggest games you can play in club football

so we need to sort that out.

The fatigue I see in the players is more mental than physical, we are giving it our all.

Thiago (potentially, but realistically) out is a real problem.

Huge game.

Allison

Trent
Joel
VVD
Robbo

Fabinho
Keita
Hendo

Diaz
Mane
Salah

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Last edited by Buzzo; 23-05-22 at 10:46 AM.

Rich · 23-05-22, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

Feels a bit flat given we are 6 days away from one of the biggest games you can play in club football

so we need to sort that out.

Feels like the players and the fans are running on empty.

Huge game, we've not been playing very well but grinding out unbelievable results.

Buzzo · 23-05-22, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Feels like the players and the fans are running on empty.

Huge game, we've not been playing very well but grinding out unbelievable results.

Yep, thats twice in a week we have won from 1-0 down. Massive amounts of guts.

The team pretty much picks itself now.

We saw the leadership that we miss at the back without VVD yesterday, and were reminded that Konate is young and has a mistake in him under pressure. Matip is a definite starter in this.

I also think Jota is a goalscorer, and a workhorse, but we do not seem as cohesive when he plays.

Diaz is the ace in the pack. We have to try and get the ball to him as much as possible.

Jaco_Pastorious · 23-05-22, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

Allison

Trent
Joel
VVD
Robbo

Fabinho
Keita
Hendo

Diaz
Mane
Salah

If that is our team, or if Konate is in for Matip, then it is still more than good enough to be a CL winning team.

That team still makes it a genuine 50/50 game against any team Real can put out.

Plus unlike yesterday the outcome is in our own hands in this game.

Going to be some cracking duels all over the pitch in this one.

Charly · 23-05-22, 10:46 AM

Matip must start. Konate is a great prospect, but I cant really think of a reason to start him over Matip. I think VVD and Matip seem to have a better understsbding positionally.

Do we know if Fab will make it?

If we are missing Fab and Thiago, I do not fancy our chances. I dont think Jones and Keia should play in the same team, which leaves Milner, who just seems to be a yard too slow to each ball.

Firmino as a midfielder is a possibility, but he was awful yesterday. I think we desperately need a new false 9 to link our forward play a bit better, as Bobby seems to be in a downward spiral.

Elliott is our only other option (apart from Ox). I just dont rate him in midfield. He lacks any physical presence, but might do a job further forward.

The rest of the team picks itself... With Timmy being the only other player to be pushing for a starting position. Robbos experience cements his position.

At least we have 5 subs if things dobt go well.

Jaco_Pastorious · 23-05-22, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charly

Matip must start. Konate is a great prospect, but I cant really think of a reason to start him over Matip. I think VVD and Matip seem to have a better understsbding positionally.

Do we know if Fab will make it?

If we are missing Fab and Thiago, I do not fancy our chances. I dont think Jones and Keia should play in the same team, which leaves Milner, who just seems to be a yard too slow to each ball.

Firmino as a midfielder is a possibility, but he was awful yesterday. I think we desperately need a new false 9 to link our forward play a bit better, as Bobby seems to be in a downward spiral.

Elliott is our only other option (apart from Ox). I just dont rate him in midfield. He lacks any physical presence, but might do a job further forward.

The rest of the team picks itself... With Timmy being the only other player to be pushing for a starting position. Robbos experience cements his position.

At least we have 5 subs if things dobt go well.

Pace would be my reasoning given that Real will have Vinicus on their left flank trying to exploit any space left by TAA when he goes forward.

Buzzo · 23-05-22, 10:57 AM

This was Klopp on Thiago.

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Rich · 23-05-22, 11:03 AM

I don't think Matip was particularly cool yesterday. Konate has been playing in Europe ahead of Joel and I think he'll get the nod on Saturday too, even just to have his pace at the back to counter Real's pacy attack.

Jota should be on the bench, he's looked out of sorts/rusty for months. If Salah is fit enough he starts.

spud_gun · 23-05-22, 11:08 AM

The European Cup final.

Season defining game this. Win and this team become immortal. Up there with the absolute best we've ever produced. Loss....don't want to contemplate it tbh

RichC · 23-05-22, 11:11 AM

We need to make sure we shore up the right side, I think whomever we play on that right side of midfield has to be fully aware of vinicius jr as the way we play Trent will leave space down that side.

Tribute · 23-05-22, 11:16 AM

Konate will need his pace if they exploit Trent's side as he's always targeted. Matip might read the game better but the physical presence of Konate might be preferred by Jurgen.

Midfield is where this will be won or lost. A full strength midfield and we would be too strong for them... but without Thiago and if Fab's not fully fit or in his rhythm, this gets much more difficult.

Bobby was awful yesterday when he came on, yet (for those with short memories) he was absolutely fantastic against Southampton and looked back to his best. Still think he's above Diogo in the starting berths, but for me it's Sadio, Mo and Luis starting this.

Diogo has lost all his touch and poacher's ability in the last few months and as much as Mo has dipped as well, he still has a threat in him to score or create something from nothing... plus he's got a better understanding of the front three than Diogo.

It's going to be a nervy first twenty mins... unless we get a couple of early goals. On current form I can see this being cagey until the second half and we'll sneak a win.

Imagine ET and pens for this one - after the Carabao and FA Cup...

Tribute · 23-05-22, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

Feels a bit flat given we are 6 days away from one of the biggest games you can play in club football

so we need to sort that out.

I hope you starting this thread is a good omen, Buzzo...

danperkins · 23-05-22, 11:24 AM

The issues we'll face vs Madrid is getting the ball from them in the midfield. I don't care how old people say Modric is or how slow Kroos is, they are masters in possession and they have pace to burn up top and on the flanks when they get fed.

In saying that they have massively struggled with teams that press high. City, Chelsea & PSG all gave them a tough time but much like us they have guts and know how to grind out a result, seasoned winners in that side. Some of those games they should have been dead and buried and were very lucky imo. I worry that we have look tired of late, especially Trent who is so important to us. We all know the ball Madrid will play is behind Trent/over the head between Trent & CB. It's the same ball teams have been playing all season. We were lucky that Neto went off yesterday imo as he is pace was killing us. Hwang came on and the same thing happened too. We were frantic yesterday which didn't help and I don't think we will be anything like like vs Madrid but a high tempo is key for me. Vinicius is as quick and has been brilliant this season. Trent is going to need some help from that midfield, Jota gave him nothing (Been so poor for awhile now) & we simply need to keep the ball away from Benzema. We have two top notch CB's in Matip and VVD so I'm confident in them.

Thiago is the problem, or the lack of Thiago I should say. Not only does he have the work rate without the ball, it's how quick and precise he is in possession which gives us such an edge in games & the passes he picks out nobody else in our team would even consider. Fab does what he has to do, Hendo will work hard and try be quick on the ball but just doesn't have the skillset & Keita is just so slow to release the ball in general but will press. Milner is the only other option and although he would give he is all, it might be a step too far for him imo. Our attack and defence when firing is sensational but we look ordinary and slow in that midfield without Thiago. Praying Fab is back and fresh anyways, that will be a huge plus but looking at teams Madrid have struggled against, it is teams that have pressed the life out of them and we can do that when we are at it. They will try pass the ball out from the back and that's a dangerous game vs us. Diaz, Mane & Mo if all fit hopefully will squeeze that defence and be up close and personal every time they try to play it out.

They played their strongest team vs Betis on the 20th and surprisingly enough they kept Benz and Vinicius on for the whole game, all the midfield lads got taken off. They were on cruise control though and have been for a few weeks & that is a big advantage they have over us.

Exiled_red · 23-05-22, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't think Matip was particularly cool yesterday. Konate has been playing in Europe ahead of Joel and I think he'll get the nod on Saturday too, even just to have his pace at the back to counter Real's pacy attack.

Jota should be on the bench, he's looked out of sorts/rusty for months. If Salah is fit enough he starts.

Pablo · 23-05-22, 11:59 AM

Matip over Konate on Saturday for me. Both are brilliant, but in the bigger games I'd trust Matip's experience that bit more.

Exiled_red · 23-05-22, 11:59 AM

Fingers crossed we have a full squad to pick from if Fabinho and Thiago are back and fit that would be huge, Suggestions seem to be that VVD will be back, Fabinho could be and Thiago is unknown at the moment.

This is the season defining game, if we end it with a CL win it will be a great season, to finish with 'just' the two domestic trophies would feel a bit of a disappointment. It also feels like a massive deal in recruiting players/keeping existing players to be able to say we have won it twice in the last 4 years.

wiw · 23-05-22, 12:14 PM

Got a bad feeling about this one now. If Thiago and Fab both miss it - what would your midfield be?

I can see an argument for Curtis to be honest

wiw · 23-05-22, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charly

Matip must start. Konate is a great prospect, but I cant really think of a reason to start him over Matip. I think VVD and Matip seem to have a better understsbding positionally.

Do we know if Fab will make it?

If we are missing Fab and Thiago, I do not fancy our chances. I dont think Jones and Keia should play in the same team, which leaves Milner, who just seems to be a yard too slow to each ball.

Firmino as a midfielder is a possibility, but he was awful yesterday. I think we desperately need a new false 9 to link our forward play a bit better, as Bobby seems to be in a downward spiral.

Elliott is our only other option (apart from Ox). I just dont rate him in midfield. He lacks any physical presence, but might do a job further forward.

The rest of the team picks itself... With Timmy being the only other player to be pushing for a starting position. Robbos experience cements his position.

At least we have 5 subs if things dobt go well.

The fact that Fab couldn't even make the bench yesterday is a little worrying.

to the rest

Shaggy · 23-05-22, 12:19 PM

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danperkins · 23-05-22, 12:31 PM

Fab would have had nearly 17 days rest since the Villa injury so hopefully all good. Thiago is achilles and not hammy is more positive imo although I know achilles can be a bugger. We'll find out more over the coming days but we need both. Two huge players players for us, if we have both and they are fit and fresh then I think we beat Madrid. Fab already doing light training and supposedly returns to full training this week.

Fredo · 23-05-22, 12:56 PM

Don’t think Fab nor Thiago will make it and if they do, it will be a big risk.

Kenneth · 23-05-22, 12:58 PM

Last day of the season and with five subs available, how big a risk is it really?

spud_gun · 23-05-22, 12:59 PM

Risk of rupturing his achillies and being out for a year + ?

Maxiedge · 23-05-22, 01:03 PM

Think Fab will be fine, if a little rusty. Thiago sounds much more positive today than yesterday, but again, he might not be 100% either.

Fredo · 23-05-22, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth

Last day of the season and with five subs available, how big a risk is it really?

We usually don’t risk players if they aren’t able to train for more than a couple of sessions. Fab isn’t yet training as far I see so would be really optimistic.

Charly · 23-05-22, 01:50 PM

I dont fancy playing against Modric if Fab is out. Might be more inclined to play Hendo and Milner next to each other with keita further up. Might affect our shape for the press though.

At least we are not.playing City though. Imagine that with half out midfield out

Buzzo · 23-05-22, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredo

We usually don’t risk players if they aren’t able to train for more than a couple of sessions. Fab isn’t yet training as far I see so would be really optimistic.

They are day off today, back in training tomorrow. If he is in this week tomorrow/Weds then he plays I reckon.

Same with Thiago. It’s the CL final.

Jaco_Pastorious · 23-05-22, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charly

I dont fancy playing against Modric if Fab is out. Might be more inclined to play Hendo and Milner next to each other with keita further up. Might affect our shape for the press though.

At least we are not.playing City though. Imagine that with half out midfield out

Don't fret. I'm pretty sure Klopp does not have you in mind to replace Fabinho.

Buzzo · 23-05-22, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious

Don't fret. I'm pretty sure Klopp does not have you in mind to replace Fabinho.

Charly reveals himself to be none other than Curtis Jones.

Jaco_Pastorious · 23-05-22, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

Charly reveals himself to be none other than Curtis Jones.

He wishes. We all know Charly is Mr N Phillips.

Yer a bum Charly

Charly · 23-05-22, 02:42 PM

Ill be back next year...

And you love my bum, Jaco...

I meant Hendo (v Modric).

I think he is wasted that far back, as his deeper crosses and through balls can be devastating. I dont think he holds the line as well. But Milners legs seem to move with a slight delay, and all he does is foul people now... so he cant play in there.

Maybe Matip playing holding with Hendo and Keita further forward...

I have cracked it!!!

I shall let Jurgen know

Norbs · 23-05-22, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious

Don't fret. I'm pretty sure Klopp does not have you in mind to replace Fabinho.

Charly · 23-05-22, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

Charly reveals himself to be none other than Curtis Jones.

His hair has more body than mine.

S-RED · 24-05-22, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

I expect this team will play, Konate may be a (small) curveball, but other than that

Allison

Trent
Joel
VVD
Robbo

Fabinho
Keita
Hendo

Diaz
Mane
Salah

danperkins · 24-05-22, 07:53 AM

If Fab has been in full training this week, he will start. Thiago it just might be too soon for him.

Sus · 24-05-22, 08:17 AM

I wonder if we will see Firmino if Thiago is out, and Mane if he is in. Without Thiago, Bobby is the only one really who can see and make those clever passes into the box, while we would rely a lot more on the creativity coming from the fullbacks in this situation

With Thiago in the middle (and especially with Fab behind him), we would be able to rely on Mane more as a mobile #9, similar to the last few weeks

baitman · 24-05-22, 08:22 AM

The lack of quality, depth and durability in our midfield has been an issue for a few years and now it's going to eat us.

Playing oxlade, Jones, or miner has rarely seen us maintain the top end quality.
Without fabinho, thiago and (to a lesser extent) henderson or keita we have definitely seen a reduction in our effectiveness.

The use of the squaddie midfielder has possibly been our achillies heel and allowed teams to get an unexpected draw.

Jaco_Pastorious · 24-05-22, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sus

I wonder if we will see Firmino if Thiago is out, and Mane if he is in. Without Thiago, Bobby is the only one really who can see and make those clever passes into the box, while we would rely a lot more on the creativity coming from the fullbacks in this situation

With Thiago in the middle (and especially with Fab behind him), we would be able to rely on Mane more as a mobile #9, similar to the last few weeks

I hope not. Bobby as some sort of advanced midfield option is something I would not like to see against the Real options.

Prefer to have solidity in midfield and players who are naturals in the role than trying to shoe horn Bobby in.

The one thing we know pretty much for sure about Real is they are going to start with three from Casemiro, Modric, Kroos or Valverde in the centre so we need our strongest available three in the middle.

Rich · 24-05-22, 08:58 AM

If one of Fab or Thiago make it then the starting midfield pretty much picks itself.

Fab
Hendo - Keita

or

Hendo
Keita - Thiago

It only gets interesting if both are out, if that's the case then I'd go with:

Hendo
Keita - Jones

Jones might not release the ball quickly at times but he's excellent on the ball and willing runner/worker.

Rafa Justice · 24-05-22, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charly

I dont fancy playing against Modric if Fab is out. Might be more inclined to play Hendo and Milner next to each other with keita further up. Might affect our shape for the press though.

At least we are not.playing City though. Imagine that with half out midfield out

Might need a change in tactics if that's the case. Concede possession, reduce the press and hit on the break like in 2019.