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Old 15-07-18, 06:58 PM   #3281
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It's been a fantastic world cup. I've really enjoyed it
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Old 15-07-18, 07:00 PM   #3282
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It was handball, you can't wave them away. Compared to the two against us Vs Roma, it was clear as day.
Nope.

And the same with Milner too, even though he was further away from the previous contact.
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Old 15-07-18, 07:18 PM   #3283
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It was handball, you can't wave them away. Compared to the two against us Vs Roma, it was clear as day.
i didn't think it was initally but after analysis at half time it was a pen, a wee bit harsh considering how close he was to Matuidi but hand was out.
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Old 15-07-18, 07:24 PM   #3284
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I don't think it was a deliberate handball. I also don't think it was clear and obvious enough to review.
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Old 15-07-18, 07:32 PM   #3285
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i didn't think it was initally but after analysis at half time it was a pen, a wee bit harsh considering how close he was to Matuidi but hand was out.
When you slow it down to super slow motion, yes. It looks deliberate as there is a motion.

Look at it in anything like real-time and that is impossible.
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Old 15-07-18, 07:45 PM   #3286
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Still and slo-mo’s can massively distort things.

The ball deflects off Matuidi, there’s no way Perisic could have seen that and reacted to it in a split second.

Not a deliberate hand ball.
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Old 15-07-18, 07:58 PM   #3287
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Old 15-07-18, 08:00 PM   #3288
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And then also add in the VAR ‘clear and obvious’ rule.
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Old 15-07-18, 08:05 PM   #3289
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Still and slo-mo’s can massively distort things.

The ball deflects off Matuidi, there’s no way Perisic could have seen that and reacted to it in a split second.

Not a deliberate hand ball.


Not to mention his hand was naturally on the way down coming down after his leap.
It wasn't a pen in my book. Slow-mo made it look way worse than the way it happened in real-time. The fact that the ref took so long viewing all the slow-mo fed to him massively distorted things.

Pity VAR wasn't so examined on the first goal.

Croatia were done today IMO.
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Old 15-07-18, 08:13 PM   #3290
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I think deliberate is more nuanced than did he intends to handle it, otherwise the best way for defenders to stand when a shot is expected is arms out wide, or a wall at a free kick to stick their hands in the air. They couldn't specifically intend to handle it if the free kick hadn't even been taken yet, but there is an idea that putting your hands out to a position that is likely to impede the ball is intentional, and if it hits it it was therefore deliberate.
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Old 15-07-18, 08:24 PM   #3291
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I think deliberate is more nuanced than did he intends to handle it, otherwise the best way for defenders to stand when a shot is expected is arms out wide, or a wall at a free kick to stick their hands in the air. They couldn't specifically intend to handle it if the free kick hadn't even been taken yet, but there is an idea that putting your hands out to a position that is likely to impede the ball is intentional, and if it hits it it was therefore deliberate.
Eh? If they’re expecting a shot, then putting their hands up is a deliberate act to make contact with the ball using their hand
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Old 15-07-18, 08:28 PM   #3292
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I think he’s saying there’s engineering a ball to hand in addition to the handball/ball to hand binary
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Old 15-07-18, 08:31 PM   #3293
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I think he’s saying there’s engineering a ball to hand in addition to the handball/ball to hand binary
Yes. That's what he's saying.

But.. that is clearly not what actually happened.

Anyway, it's done now. Injustice rules again. But Croatia should be immensely proud at being overall the best team in the tournament.

An incredible achievement really.
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Old 15-07-18, 08:41 PM   #3294
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I think he’s saying there’s engineering a ball to hand in addition to the handball/ball to hand binary
Ball to hand would be irrelevant in that situation. Standing with your arms up in front of a free kick would clearly a deliberate attempt to make contact with the ball using a hand or arm.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:17 PM   #3295
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Overall, France deserved winners beating the likes of Belgium, Argentina, Uruguay and of course Croatia in the final.

I have enjoyed this World Cup immensely having had a chance to watch almost every single game, it has been the best one for me since 1990. Russia seemingly did a fantastic job as hosts as well.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:20 PM   #3296
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Ball to hand would be irrelevant in that situation. Standing with your arms up in front of a free kick would clearly a deliberate attempt to make contact with the ball using a hand or arm.
If you don't know where the ball is going, how can you be deliberately trying to handle it, in the strict sense? There's ball to hand where a defender is in now way using his hand for an advantage, there's deliberate handball where the defender sees the ball and tries to make contact with it with his hand, and there's the pseudo deliberate situation where the hands are placed in a position that produces a likelihood of the ball hitting it, or makes things harder for the striker in terms of being able to hit the target. The latter two are considered deliberate and are handball. Not that any of this is necessarily relevant. Or interesting.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:29 PM   #3297
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If you don't know where the ball is going, how can you be deliberately trying to handle it, in the strict sense? There's ball to hand where a defender is in now way using his hand for an advantage, there's deliberate handball where the defender sees the ball and tries to make contact with it with his hand, and there's the pseudo deliberate situation where the hands are placed in a position that produces a likelihood of the ball hitting it, or makes things harder for the striker in terms of being able to hit the target. The latter two are considered deliberate and are handball. Not that any of this is necessarily relevant. Or interesting.
... Or what happened
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Old 15-07-18, 09:41 PM   #3298
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Meh. Fucking shithouses.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:44 PM   #3299
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If you don't know where the ball is going, how can you be deliberately trying to handle it, in the strict sense? There's ball to hand where a defender is in now way using his hand for an advantage, there's deliberate handball where the defender sees the ball and tries to make contact with it with his hand, and there's the pseudo deliberate situation where the hands are placed in a position that produces a likelihood of the ball hitting it, or makes things harder for the striker in terms of being able to hit the target. The latter two are considered deliberate and are handball. Not that any of this is necessarily relevant. Or interesting.
If you’re standing in a wall, you’re there to try to block the free kick. You know the ball is coming in your direction.
If you’re standing in the wall with your hands up, you’re trying to block the free kick with your hands. That’s deliberate contact.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:45 PM   #3300
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... Or what happened
Yes, or this.
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Old 15-07-18, 09:49 PM   #3301
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If you’re standing in a wall, you’re there to try to block the free kick. You know the ball is coming in your direction.
If you’re standing in the wall with your hands up, you’re trying to block the free kick with your hands. That’s deliberate contact.
If you're in the wall and jump, you use your arms to lever your jump just like everyone else in the world does, unless you're one of those fannies that covers their nads. Your arms go up just as you're about to jump, and down just before you start to fall. That's not about putting them somewhere they are more likely to illegally block the ball, it's about naturally moving in a way that moves the rest of your body into position in an attempt to legally block the ball.

In other words, you can view deliberacy from this sort of probabilistic sense, however it matters not a jot in this scenario since the motion was clearly the normal way someone would move when seeking to play by the rules.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:01 PM   #3302
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If you're in the wall and jump, you use your arms to lever your jump just like everyone else in the world does, unless you're one of those fannies that covers their nads. Your arms go up just as you're about to jump, and down just before you start to fall. That's not about putting them somewhere they are more likely to illegally block the ball, it's about naturally moving in a way that moves the rest of your body into position in an attempt to legally block the ball.

In other words, you can view deliberacy from this sort of probabilistic sense, however it matters not a jot in this scenario since the motion was clearly the normal way someone would move when seeking to play by the rules.
That’s not what Kenneth was describing though. He was talking about standing in the wall with arms above heads.

Anyway, this is all irrelevant.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:08 PM   #3303
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That’s not what Kenneth was describing though. He was talking about standing in the wall with arms above heads.

Anyway, this is all irrelevant.
Exactly, I agree that would be deliberate. Whereas what actually happened, really wasn't.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:13 PM   #3304
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Exactly, I agree that would be deliberate. Whereas what actually happened, really wasn't.
That’s it
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Old 15-07-18, 10:17 PM   #3305
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Interesting take on today from F365's conclusions...much if what has been highlighted already on here today.

Long story short.......Croatia got shafted and VAR needs a hell of a lot of work.

Quote:
7) During the knockout stages of this tournament, VAR controversies – or controversies involving referees’ interpretation of VAR replays – have largely been kept to a minimum. That all changed in the final, just as FIFA must have hoped everything would go smoothly.


Firstly, France were always going to be awarded a penalty as soon as Nestor Pistana went to watch the replay. We have seen time and again in this World Cup that a referee not awarding a penalty for handball is followed by mass appeals from the attacking team, the word in the ear from the officials watching the replays and then the jog of referee to screen. Having been told he should look at an incident because an error may have occurred, a referee is clearly swayed by that advice.

But here’s the thing: I don’t know what handball is anymore. I always assumed it had to be deliberate, with caveats for arms in unnatural positions and the amount of time the player has to react. There is an argument that Perisic’s hand was in a slightly unnatural position, although not wildly, but he was also very close to the player whose header changed the ball’s direction; it was certainly not deliberate.

But the rules on handballs have changed. Watching football in slow-motion distorts the coverage. It makes incidents that are far from clear-cut in real-time look more obvious. A year ago, that penalty would never have been given for handball. Without the wording of the rules being changed, it is now more likely to be given.



8) That raises two obvious questions:

a) Is it fair on the players for decisions that are so important to the final result to change so radically after the introduction of an initiative? They are having to learn to change their behaviour, but having to learn on the hop without any guidance other than real-time precedent.

b) Does watching slow-motion replays of handball incidents create such a distorted reality that it actually moves away from the very notion of finding the ‘right’ decision? If we have agreed that handball decisions are now changing, what is ‘right’ after all?

Finally, one more question is raised. In their bumph when introducing VAR, FIFA mentioned the term ‘clear and obvious error’. That term has had its usage scaled back since, as if FIFA are keen to move away from it, but that is how VAR was sold to managers, players and spectators. The idea was that huge mistakes would be eradicated.

If referee Pistana has to watch seven or eight slow-motion replays, walk away from the screen and then walk back to the screen to watch another two replays before reversing his original call, how on earth can it be ‘clear and obvious’?
https://www.football365.com/news/wor...16-conclusions
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Old 15-07-18, 10:21 PM   #3306
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In other news, I'm a big fan of Perisic.

Skillful, grafter, ugly and beautiful. A number 4 who plays like a number 11.

A juxtaposition, but a big game player.

I'd take him for LFC in an instant.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:26 PM   #3307
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In other news, I'm a big fan of Perisic.

Skillful, grafter, ugly and beautiful. A number 4 who plays like a number 11.

A juxtaposition, but a big game player.

I'd take him for LFC in an instant.
You and everyone else.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:27 PM   #3308
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In other news, I'm a big fan of Perisic.

Skillful, grafter, ugly and beautiful. A number 4 who plays like a number 11.

A juxtaposition, but a big game player.

I'd take him for LFC in an instant.


Agreed, reminds me of Firmino actually. Shame he's 31 as he'd be on Klopp's radar I believe.
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Old 15-07-18, 10:40 PM   #3309
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When you slow it down to super slow motion, yes. It looks deliberate as there is a motion.

Look at it in anything like real-time and that is impossible.
Yeah it's a difficult one. I did think Croatia were hard done by today .
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Old 15-07-18, 11:10 PM   #3310
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Yeah it's a difficult one. I did think Croatia were hard done by today .
It's only difficult if you're brain works in slow motion to be fair.
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Old 16-07-18, 12:49 AM   #3311
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Two of the biggest cunts in world football got exposed this World Cup. Unfortunately one of them profited from it.

(Griezmann and Neymar)
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Old 16-07-18, 01:27 AM   #3312
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It's only difficult if you're brain works in slow motion to be fair.
Taking it well.
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Old 16-07-18, 01:28 AM   #3313
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Taking it well.
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Old 16-07-18, 10:13 AM   #3314
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So inside the box, a keeper can throw his boots and shinguards at the ball?
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Old 16-07-18, 10:28 AM   #3315
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Agreed, reminds me of Firmino actually. Shame he's 31 as he'd be on Klopp's radar I believe.
Played for Klopp at Dortmund.
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Old 16-07-18, 10:32 AM   #3316
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Played for Klopp at Dortmund.


Who knew! He's only 29.5 too.. Yeah I'd have him here!
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Old 16-07-18, 10:37 AM   #3317
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Klopp didn't pick him much and flogged him to Wolfsburg

It'll never happen.

I always thought he was average but he had a good tournament. United have been after him for over a year. He'll probably go there imo. Right sort of age for Mourinho.
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Old 16-07-18, 11:05 AM   #3318
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Was nice to have a good tournament (albeit without amazing quality) before the absolute shit show that is 2022. Fuck knows what sort of damage that's going to do to the calendar but it'll probably take years to get back to normal after it. Just fuck it off and give it to Australia for fuck sake you bent cunts.
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Old 16-07-18, 11:28 AM   #3319
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I think deliberate is more nuanced than did he intends to handle it, otherwise the best way for defenders to stand when a shot is expected is arms out wide, or a wall at a free kick to stick their hands in the air. They couldn't specifically intend to handle it if the free kick hadn't even been taken yet, but there is an idea that putting your hands out to a position that is likely to impede the ball is intentional, and if it hits it it was therefore deliberate.


His hand impeded the flight if the ball towrds the goal. It was handball
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Old 16-07-18, 01:07 PM   #3320
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I watched the world championship yesterday and was happy with the victory of France. This is a really strong team. When I was actively following the championship, I found one useful site with great live coverage: results, stats, standings and tournament grids for events around the world. 777score.co.uk
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