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Old 18-10-20, 01:44 PM   #721
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Old 18-10-20, 02:20 PM   #722
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Wow. Forgot it was him. That does add an interesting spin on it all
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Old 18-10-20, 02:21 PM   #723
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Which game was that?
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Old 18-10-20, 02:22 PM   #724
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Which game was that?
Trying to work that kit out. Is it Villa?
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Old 18-10-20, 02:25 PM   #725
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Burnley end of last season, got stiffed late on by that ref
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Old 18-10-20, 02:26 PM   #726
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Palace pen is a farce today, FFS vvd and mo a man handled at every opportunity and then the ref gives a joke (ghost) pen for fuck all.
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Old 19-10-20, 09:13 PM   #727
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Even as a neutral I fucking hate these marginal ones. Saiss scored a cracker for Wolves now and was ruled out for a toenail. Admittedly looked more off than our ones but it's all just a bit fucking frustrating.
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Old 20-10-20, 03:21 AM   #728
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Even as a neutral I fucking hate these marginal ones. Saiss scored a cracker for Wolves now and was ruled out for a toenail. Admittedly looked more off than our ones but it's all just a bit fucking frustrating.
It was more than marginal, I wouldn't be upset if that went against us.
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Old 21-10-20, 06:28 AM   #729
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We all know it’s those who are making the decisions are why so many VAR calls are wrong and this guy is chief culprit

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Old 21-10-20, 08:54 AM   #730
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he is truly abysmal & if that is the standard we have to expect going forward, the game is screwed.........

It's bad enough on pitch incompetency, but totally unacceptable when they have multiple replays to watch on a screen.

I still don't know why the on pitch refs have stopped using the pitchside monitors, it was working at the start of the season !!! its ridiculous
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Old 21-10-20, 10:02 AM   #731
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Didn't realise it was him for the City / Leicester game too.
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Old 21-10-20, 01:26 PM   #732
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One look at this guy's face confirms what a bellend he is. If any of us were this incompetent at our jobs we'd have been sacked
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Old 24-10-20, 06:44 PM   #733
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Another shambolic VAR day. Although that's pretty much every match day at the moment. Scrap it.
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Old 24-10-20, 10:39 PM   #734
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Another shambolic VAR day. Although that's pretty much every match day at the moment. Scrap it.
What happened?
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Old 24-10-20, 10:42 PM   #735
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Another shambolic VAR day. Although that's pretty much every match day at the moment. Scrap it.
Scrapping it would be a bit stupid. I'm sure we'd be complaining when decisions don't go our way and there's no VAR to rely upon.
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Old 24-10-20, 10:46 PM   #736
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Different how?
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Old 24-10-20, 10:49 PM   #737
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Different how?
What?

It will improve. Might take a couple of years (last and this year's), but it will come, as with any piece of technology. Doesn't just work overnight.
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Old 24-10-20, 10:53 PM   #738
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VAR is an absolute mess at the moment, the errors and inconsistencies with it are unbelievable. It’s currently not fit for purpose, the tech itself might be good enough but the implementation and use of it is nowhere close to being so
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Old 24-10-20, 10:58 PM   #739
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It's human errors which are undermining it at the moment. It works in other countries so I cannot see why it won't work to a consistent extent here, especially as they can work back and realise these have been mistakes. There's nothing wrong with VAR, but the implementation still leaves us with issues that need sorting.
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Old 24-10-20, 11:00 PM   #740
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VAR is an absolute mess at the moment, the errors and inconsistencies with it are unbelievable. Itís currently not fit for purpose, the tech itself might be good enough but the implementation and use of it is nowhere close to being so


It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.

I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.

The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.

We are absolutely miles away from that happening.
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Old 24-10-20, 11:05 PM   #741
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It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.

I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.

The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.

We are absolutely miles away from that happening.
I’m amazed how badly its being used, it’s even highlighted those that are making the decisions aren’t even sure of the rules themselves and get that wrong.

Rugby, tennis and cricket all use tech successfully to make decisions, football seem to have managed to implement tech and made the absolute worst job possible.

I’m not sure there’s many sensible fans across the PL that are happy with it and the lack of clarity from refs as to the decisions doesn’t help.
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Old 24-10-20, 11:05 PM   #742
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It hasn't come in over night, , they've been evaluating it for years. The issue is that the focus had been on technology, but technology isn't really the issue, except maybe for tight offsides. It's the rules about its use and the incompetence of the people using it. Now the former can change, but the latter won't. As of now, VAR is embarrassing the sport as a whole in this country.

Tonight we hear VAR only checked the position of Fab's tackle, not whether it was a foul. There is absolutely no logical reason for that. Against Everton they only checked the offside, not the subsequent dangerous play, again, no rational reason why. Today Maguire fouled the Chelsea player in the box, VAR didn't even look at it. Either the rules around VAR are monumentally stupid, and or the people using it haven't a fucking clue what they are doing. It's clear that we have two refs per game and they don't want to step on each others dicks.

There are only two ways that VAR can be run without that issue, either the on-field ref looks at everything contentious himself, with prompts to do so for any possible contentious situation, or the VAR overrides any decision that they think didn't match their own, with the help of the replays. One ref has to be responsible for the decisions made, and if we are trying to make things better than before, it's only logical that that is the ref with the best view, the VAR. The VAR should referee the match, with the on-field ref being a human whistle and card pocket imo. But either way, without radical reform, the process does not help the game, we can't even console ourselves with the idea that refs are only human and will inevitably miss things or mis-see things now, we know they had the views they needed, so trust is being degraded.
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Old 24-10-20, 11:50 PM   #743
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What?



It will improve. Might take a couple of years (last and this year's), but it will come, as with any piece of technology. Doesn't just work overnight.
Nah.

The technology is fine. But as you well know, if the end users are abusing it, then it's the process that's fucked, not the tools.
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Old 24-10-20, 11:53 PM   #744
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It is baffling why it is is such bad shape. The whole Stockley park is at the heart of it. Surely there is enough cash in football to have a bloke in a van somewhere outside the ground and a designated 4th (VAR) official. If VAR was owned by the match day officials I think it would work. The 'outsourcing' element is where it is breaking down.



I'm going to say again, this is how it works in Rugby Union and it is so effortless compared to this.



The decisions that have gone against us the last 2 games there is not a single person in football that would stand by them. But, with proper interpretation of the situations and use intelligent use of the tech then VAR should be making a positive impact on the game.



We are absolutely miles away from that happening.
Not sure a man in a van outside the stadium would be any better than a man in an office or a man in a TV studio or a man in a pub or a man in a living room.

The location isn't the problem.

It's the idiots.
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Old 25-10-20, 12:03 AM   #745
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Not sure a man in a van outside the stadium would be any better than a man in an office or a man in a TV studio or a man in a pub or a man in a living room.

The location isn't the problem.

It's the idiots.
I think the location is important, n terms of the VAR official being part of the matchday refereeing team, talking about the game in advance making sure they are all on the same age. OK, the van or whatever isn't the problem but he/she should be inside or outside the stadium. That surely creates a camaraderie between the officials meaning they will work together as a team and work to the correct decision.

I don't think they are currently interested at getting to the correct decision, they are looking to protect the criteria that they are working under. The correct decision should be all that matters, however in football it seems a by-product to the rules.
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Old 25-10-20, 12:04 AM   #746
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To be fair the Maguire one I can see why it wasn't referred to VAR that was from a set piece where there was alot going on, they wouldn't have known that they had to look for anything. If you have to check the pushing and pulling for every set piece delivered into the box the game will take forever. That's one that the linesman should pick up and refer to the ref/VAR official. Unless each team gets a VAR referral where they can ask the ref to look at something they think he missed, I think those type of incidents will continue to happen.

The bigger problem is the ones which are being referred to VAR and being judged inconsistently, it's getting to the point where no one knows the rules anymore: that Fabinho challenge was a foul apparently, and it occurred in the box, last week Mane was offside, and Pickford wasn't endangering an opponent. 3 out of the last 4 major VAR decisions in our last 2 games for me have been wrong (the 4th being the Salah offside was just correct).
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Old 25-10-20, 12:09 AM   #747
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I think the location is important, n terms of the VAR official being part of the matchday refereeing team, talking about the game in advance making sure they are all on the same age. OK, the van or whatever isn't the problem but he/she should be inside or outside the stadium. That surely creates a camaraderie between the officials meaning they will work together as a team and work to the correct decision.

I don't think they are currently interested at getting to the correct decision, they are looking to protect the criteria that they are working under. The correct decision should be all that matters, however in football it seems a by-product to the rules.
I kinda see where you're coming from, but in my normal working day I'm on calls with people from from 6 other time zones at various times. Even at the same time (poor Eric in Malaysia )

And all from my spare room!

Location ain't the problem. You can build camaraderie in many ways.

But there seems to be a bunch of vested interests at play here which are undermining everything.
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Old 25-10-20, 12:18 AM   #748
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Are VAR referees not watching the live game too? Surely they see the same thing we do and say "Hang on a minute!"?

I think someone should make a video of how it should be and get it out there on social media. Start putting pressure on the FA (or whoever is relevant) as a vision of how it should work.

For example show how dick hair tight decisions are waved away because they're too tight to accurately call. How rugby tackles in the area are flagged. How transparency is used (like Rugby and Aussie FA). Show us how it should work and how it would improve the game.

And all of the above could use existing controversial decisions as the basis of the video. Then get buy in from clubs and fan groups and publicise it.
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Old 25-10-20, 12:22 AM   #749
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I kinda see where you're coming from, but in my normal working day I'm on calls with people from from 6 other time zones at various times. Even at the same time (poor Eric in Malaysia )

And all from my spare room!

Location ain't the problem. You can build camaraderie in many ways.

But there seems to be a bunch of vested interests at play here which are undermining everything.
Yeah, possibly.

I think there is a lot of pressure on them to get to the right decision, and they are not in reality working with infinite time to do so, so anything that helps expedite that.

Thats why as mentioned here, the fact that we seem to be as far away from a process that works now as we ever have been is incredible, what were they talking about in that year prior to launch???

I thought the refs were now to go to the screens to take control of the decision (the simplest correction to make) I've not seen that at all.

As for the offsides (ie the Mane one) level is on. If the ref is looking at that and it was not flagged and we cannot clearly see by eye any offside. Then it is not offside. That one is really simple. Fucking lines with a mm difference and then you look to the frame where the pass is made and it is just a blurry mess.

Level is on.

They are also making a mess of handball.



Its unbelievable the mess it is in.
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Old 25-10-20, 08:39 AM   #750
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Just need to copy rugby ffs.

I can imagine all of the meetings and prep that went into this car crash of a system.

I used to think we'd have won the league 2 seasons ago if we had VAR - with that Kompany assault on salah. Not so sure now.... These fuckin dopes would just come out with "it's not a clear and obvious error" bullshit
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Old 25-10-20, 08:53 AM   #751
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They say "we don't want to re-referee games" but it works OK in rugby.

Yesterday, various referees should have got the call to tell them:
- that Gundogan should have had a yellow for blatantly pulling back Rice. This was in the first half and a yellow card for him then would have had to change the way he approached the rest of the match
- that West ham should have had a penalty. Garcia got the ball after the man
- Maguire should have conceded a penalty. It was fuckin rediculus....you can't go doing that.
- Fabinho got the ball

Fuckin jokeshop.

Their raison d'etre needs to be getting decisions right. End of.
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Old 25-10-20, 09:01 AM   #752
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There has to be some explanation of the decision either the interaction of the officials as it is being made or by one of the officials after it has been made explaining it with the video. Because 3 of the last 4 major VAR calls made against us are baffling even after seeing them dozens of time since. Not explaining them does reputational damage to the game.
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Old 25-10-20, 10:10 AM   #753
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Get ex players involved. These fellas by and large are all mates. There needs to be a separation of power. Theres poor Steve Finnan broke, I'm sure he'd know a good tackle from a foul, better than these ex chicken factory workers.
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Old 25-10-20, 11:01 AM   #754
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Get ex players involved. These fellas by and large are all mates. There needs to be a separation of power. Theres poor Steve Finnan broke, I'm sure he'd know a good tackle from a foul, better than these ex chicken factory workers.
No. Just mic the cunts up.

Just copy fuckin rugby
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Old 25-10-20, 11:10 AM   #755
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There has to be some explanation of the decision either the interaction of the officials as it is being made or by one of the officials after it has been made explaining it with the video. Because 3 of the last 4 major VAR calls made against us are baffling even after seeing them dozens of time since. Not explaining them does reputational damage to the game.


it literally is bringing the game into disrepute
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Old 25-10-20, 11:13 AM   #756
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I was watching the Rugby yesterday and how clear the comms were between the Ref and the VAR officials backstage. I do think there are issues as to why this can't be replicated in football and I think abuse from the crowd is one, as well as the foul language of players surrounding the refs being picked up on live televsion, so I wonder whether these things are potentially impacting VAR in football in general maybe?

As someone has mentioned above, it would be great if everyone could hear the comms between officials, see repeats on screen in stadiums etc so that the correct decisions are being made - this would get fans on-side with Premier League imo.

Some of the decisions have been scary bad so far and I can't see it improving anytime soon.
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Old 25-10-20, 12:39 PM   #757
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As someone has mentioned above, it would be great if everyone could hear the comms between officials, see repeats on screen in stadiums etc so that the correct decisions are being made - this would get fans on-side with Premier League imo.


They're scared of something but I can't work out what
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Old 25-10-20, 02:01 PM   #758
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They're scared of transparency, and that is never a good sign. Basically, I think refs feel threatened by the use of VAR, and are in self protection mode. They are desperate to avoid any sense that the on-field ref made a mistake or misjudgement. They're happy for offside or or questions of was it in or outside the box, but anything to do with the interpretation or application of judgement about the rules is off the cards for the VAR ref. It's basically a referee mafia circling to protect what they regard as their interests, or like when the police were responsible for policing themselves.
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Old 25-10-20, 02:44 PM   #759
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I think that they should have had allowed a documentary on the behind the scenes of VAR showing the process that is involved so that we the fans but also players, pundits and everyone involved in the game know what is happening, what is possible and what the limitations are because we aren't even sure about that.

It's not a substitute for explaining every decision, but it would help with transparency because at the moment they have effectively told us that this is a magic system that gets decisions right, which clearly it isn't. It's the Brexit of football, it's a cluster fuck, we were promised lots of stuff, which isn't accurate, different to what was promised and those in charge are taking no responsibility and we look to be stuck with it.
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Old 25-10-20, 02:46 PM   #760
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They're scared of transparency, and that is never a good sign. Basically, I think refs feel threatened by the use of VAR, and are in self protection mode. They are desperate to avoid any sense that the on-field ref made a mistake or misjudgement. They're happy for offside or or questions of was it in or outside the box, but anything to do with the interpretation or application of judgement about the rules is off the cards for the VAR ref. It's basically a referee mafia circling to protect what they regard as their interests, or like when the police were responsible for policing themselves.
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