VAR thread

[Norbs]

Originally Posted by Exiled_red

I think that they should have had allowed a documentary on the behind the scenes of VAR showing the process that is involved so that we the fans but also players, pundits and everyone involved in the game know what is happening, what is possible and what the limitations are because we aren't even sure about that.

It's not a substitute for explaining every decision, but it would help with transparency because at the moment they have effectively told us that this is a magic system that gets decisions right, which clearly it isn't. It's the Brexit of football, it's a cluster fuck, we were promised lots of stuff, which isn't accurate, different to what was promised and those in charge are taking no responsibility and we look to be stuck with it.

[Slinky Skills]

Originally Posted by Cormack74

They're scared of something but I can't work out what

Mental isn't it, the technology is supposed to be helping things not hindering them.

[baitman]

Originally Posted by Cormack74

They're scared of something but I can't work out what

They're worried that someone would recognise Slur Alex's voice

[RedReet]

Originally Posted by Exiled_red

I think that they should have had allowed a documentary on the behind the scenes of VAR showing the process that is involved so that we the fans but also players, pundits and everyone involved in the game know what is happening, what is possible and what the limitations are because we aren't even sure about that.

It's not a substitute for explaining every decision, but it would help with transparency because at the moment they have effectively told us that this is a magic system that gets decisions right, which clearly it isn't. It's the Brexit of football, it's a cluster fuck, we were promised lots of stuff, which isn't accurate, different to what was promised and those in charge are taking no responsibility and we look to be stuck with it.

Not a documentary, but all journos, pundits etc were invited to a walk through and taken to Stockly Park last year

[Zapater]

I don't know if anyone else is watching Roma vs Milan (I doubt it) but the standard of officiating is ridiculously poor. Referee giving penalties, throwing yellow cards around etc. What is the point of having VAR if someone doesn't whisper 'you're being a twat and got every decision in the second half wrong' in his ear?

I really fear for the future of football if the last month or so around the world is anything to go by.

[ashey]

I agree about using the Rugby model. We definitely need to hear the discussion and rational, and let the on-pitch referee make the decision.

I'd also advocate using referees that have reached retirement age as the VAR ref. They've built up experience and don't need to worry about the physical aspect of refereeing a game.

[maxwellbaxter]

Video 'assistant' Ref. On Field referee should visit the monitor on every VAR issue and make the final decision

[spud_gun]

VAR shambles in the Chelsea game.

Chavs get a penalty for ricocheted handball and Rennes player gets a second Yellow and red for the handball.

Fuck VAR

[Scratch]

By CL rules, it was a handball, as the player had made himself unnaturally bigger...what I did disagree with was the red, as that was given for stopping a goal scoring opportunity. After the ricochet, the ball was going nowhere near the goal.

[RedReet]

Not exactly a VAR issue, but one of the things that has annoyed me recently is players getting penalties when they are going nowhere. In its simplest terms, a penalty should be awarded as compensation if a player is illegally denied a goal scoring chance. I'm thinking of the Kane and Fabinho incidents recently, despite the fact that they weren't even fouls, both attackers were going nowhere, so why should they be rewarded with an almost guaranteed goal? Even to a lesser extent, the Salah pen as he looked to be going nowhere, although arguably one turn and he was in Salah range. There are many more examples, these are just the more recent and I think something needs to change.

The double jeopardy rule was introduced a few years ago as a red card and pen seemed too severe a punishment and I think the same should apply here.

Neil Atkinson made a fair point on LFC TV's press box that perhaps the boxes should be made smaller. I think this would be an excellent idea. They should definitely be more narrow, as how is a player who is fouled at the left or right hand side of the box denied a goal scoring opportunity? Likewise, it's a harsh punishment for a defender blocking a cross who accidentally handballs it in an innocuous area.

IF VAR are going to check everything and we are going to keep hearing "by the letter of the law...", then something needs to be done to downgrade some pens to free kicks. If the boxes aren't going to change size, maybe referees could decide if a foul denies a goal scoring chance then pen, if the player is going away from goal or the ball going out of play then indirect free kick. Could even make the handball rule a bit easier, deliberate hand ball or denies a goal bound shot then pen, if it's totally accidental (like old rules) or takes a deflected then indirect freekick.

Obviously I've massively simplified here, but f something like this was introduced and there were less match defining calls being decided by VAR, then there would be less publicity around it and hopefully start giving the officials the opportunity to improve their use of it.

[S-RED]

Bamford goal ruled out at palace........ the system is broken, what an absolute joke.

[Kenneth]

Twitter

__________________
Kick VAR out of football.

[RichC]

Absolute fucking shambles.

[Pepe79]

Ludicrous, but it’s as much the new handball rule as VAR that’s the problem there. Same as our disallowed winner against Everton.

[ChesterDave]

Can't even see the arse of the palace player that looks as if it could be playing him on

[S-RED]

Originally Posted by Pepe79

Ludicrous, but it’s as much the new handball rule as VAR that’s the problem there. Same as our disallowed winner against Everton.

It was Oliver in the VAR box & he needed common sense there; yes by the letter of the law & the new handball rule its off; but come on have a bit of sense on these decisions.

[vlahka]

When I was young I always thought offisde was deemed if the attackers foot was passed the defenders foot line. I swear this is how it should be.

[dom9]

Originally Posted by S-RED

It was Oliver in the VAR box & he needed common sense there; yes by the letter of the law & the new handball rule its off; but come on have a bit of sense on these decisions.

I'm not sure I agree. The law is the law, and referees have to implement it.

That said, the law is an ass.

[dom9]

Originally Posted by vlahka

When I was young I always thought offisde was deemed if the attackers foot was passed the defenders foot line. I swear this is how it should be.

It's any part of the body you can legally play the ball with.

[Pepe79]

Originally Posted by S-RED

It was Oliver in the VAR box & he needed common sense there; yes by the letter of the law & the new handball rule its off; but come on have a bit of sense on these decisions.

It’s not a subjective rule though. Offside is a black and white decision with VAR. You’re either off or on. Oliver was correct in process, it’s just that the process is bullshit.

[ChesterDave]

Its not black and white though. It has been discussed to death that the frame rate of the cameras are insufficient to process such precise margins.

And the decisions should only be overturned if it is clear and obvious and from that image it isn't clearly offside

[Zapater]

Jesus christ, I hope there's an inquest for Cairney being a vole diver. No idea how that is a 'clear and obvious' error. They just going for more goals and drama I feel. Nothing to do with the right decision.

[Pepe79]

Originally Posted by ChesterDave

Its not black and white though. It has been discussed to death that the frame rate of the cameras are insufficient to process such precise margins.

And the decisions should only be overturned if it is clear and obvious and from that image it isn't clearly offside

The may well be the case about the frame rates, but that’s not taken into account. The bottom line with VAR is it literally draws a line between on or off. Common sense on how they’re not actually gaining any advantage by having their shoulder or T-shirt line 2mm ahead of the defender doesn’t come in to it.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Zapater

Jesus christ, I hope there's an inquest for Cairney being a vole diver. No idea how that is a 'clear and obvious' error. They just going for more goals and drama I feel. Nothing to do with the right decision.

I thought it was a definite pen.

Lookman's penalty was absolutely unbelievable. Unbelievable!

[ChesterDave]

Oh. Just watching MOTD and they don't even have the image from the other side of the pitch and they still rule it out?

[danperkins]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I thought it was a definite pen.

Lookman's penalty was absolutely unbelievable. Unbelievable!

I hope he got an absolute bollocking for that shite

[Maxiedge]

The VAR rules regarding top of sleeve have to change. It was fine last season when it was start of shoulder. They got it wrong with the handball rule start of season and they need to come out and say they have got this wrong. That Bamford goal is 100% onside in the game we have grown up with and loved.

[BobTheCharmer]

The manager and players should refuse to play until that shit is sorted out.

We should have made a bigger stand with the Henderson goal at Everton.

All teams should call the officials out for what they are. Fucking idiots. Or at least direct the anger at the referees chief.

[S-RED]

46 seconds in on the arse game & villa have one disallowed by VAR; another stupid decision

[frank the tank]

Originally Posted by BobTheCharmer

The manager and players should refuse to play until that shit is sorted out.

We should have made a bigger stand with the Henderson goal at Everton.

All teams should call the officials out for what they are. Fucking idiots. Or at least direct the anger at the referees chief.

It is a bit of a joke now alright....

and i think you might be right about what needs to happen. I don't think that they won't play, but definitely needs the LMA and the PFA to kick off about this.

[Zapater]

Originally Posted by S-RED

46 seconds in on the arse game & villa have one disallowed by VAR; another stupid decision

I hate VAR. Rule of thumb: Everything's a pen and nothings a goal. Only good thing about that is that Barkley fucked it up.

[S-RED]

haha yes regarding barkley.

Did you spot that the VAR screen didn't work so Atkinson had to watch it on a laptop screen.........

[Tribute]

VAR is a fucking joke. Yes, it's supposedly 'black and white' for offside but there are still pixels of greyness depending on who stopped the play, who drew a fucking straight line or an angled one, where a shirt sleeve starts and what colour boot the attacker is wearing. Any if it's viewed in real-time, half-speed or slow-mo - all will give you a different result. Then, to add insult to injury, the complete fuckwits in the VAR office ignore stuff the ref didn't see... but overrule stuff he does see and has a different take on it... even when it's micro-marginal degrees of difference. It's an absolute farce and should be canned. If it can't be 100% fully automated, it's still interpretation and so exactly as it was pre-VAR but with a few extra angles. Utter shite.

[danperkins]

VAR has been an absolute disaster. The only thing it has highlighted which we already knew, is just how poor the standard of officiating in the premier league is. Ref's dropping a massive bollock in nearly every game and too arrogant to correct themselves.

[S-RED]

Originally Posted by danperkins

VAR has been an absolute disaster. The only thing it has highlighted which we already knew, is just how poor the standard of officiating in the premier league is. Ref's dropping a massive bollock in nearly every game and too arrogant to correct themselves.

100% agree on the ref's attitude to correcting their errors. They can't admit their mistakes, which is screwing up the process.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by S-RED

100% agree on the ref's attitude to correcting their errors. They can't admit their mistakes, which is screwing up the process.

They can though can't they? Every single time they go to the pitch-side monitor (bar once, I think), they overturn their original decision.

Not saying it's good, cos the whole thing is a clusterfuck. But it seems once it's gone to VAR, and especially the monitor, we all know the on-field decision is getting overturned. It's like the whole charade is cosmetic, performative.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by vlahka

When I was young I always thought offisde was deemed if the attackers foot was passed the defenders foot line. I swear this is how it should be.

Originally Posted by dom9

It's any part of the body you can legally play the ball with.

True, but for a VAR decision, take it from either the head or the foot, which ever is furthest forwards UNLESS the goal is scored with a part of the body not within this region and that part of the body is visibly further forwards. In these circumstances, use that part of the body as reference.

[S-RED]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

They can though can't they? Every single time they go to the pitch-side monitor (bar once, I think), they overturn their original decision.

Not saying it's good, cos the whole thing is a clusterfuck. But it seems once it's gone to VAR, and especially the monitor, we all know the on-field decision is getting overturned. It's like the whole charade is cosmetic, performative.

yeah ok i sort of agree, i think the frustration is the crass offside & handball rulings; i have yet to see a ref go over & look at an overturned offside decision. i think they should & then be allowed to use common sense (Hendo goal, Bamford goal, etc)

[Exiled_red]

I'm not a defender of VAR but to be fair it is the changes to the rules that are the problem, mostly the changes to the handball rule, it has now become a nonsense. It results in stupid penalties like the one we saw against Gomez at the weekend. Under the current rules that is a 'clear pen' but last year or any other previous year it's clearly not a pen. VAR just enables the referees to see it and highlights the stupidity of the rule. This change to the handball rule is also what has resulted in these stupid offside calls like the Bamford one and probably the Mane one in the derby (although I still can't see that one).

The tight offsides one is a VAR issue though for me this comes from the officials and those involved in the VAR system not knowing (or not acknowledging) it's limitations. I have suggested a better way to use the existing technology for offsides to make it a little fairer and give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker but they wouldn't go for it.

[Fivex]

Some analysis here confirming once more that we’re being shafted rather than benefiting from VAR.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55160134