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Old 17-10-19, 05:50 PM   #2801
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It's a football forum with millions of posts about football. It's clear that wasting words on unimportant topics is a good character fit for most of us.
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Old 17-10-19, 06:38 PM   #2802
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Funniest post on here for quite some time
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Old 18-10-19, 07:57 AM   #2803
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Its 2019, every fucker is offended by something...

Some will laugh their tits and others will scream like greta thunberg, its the way of the world. Does that make it right... who's to say.
Ill address this first. As I see it a lot, all over the place.

If people are offended, why are you so annoyed by it? Also saying that its 2019 every one is offended by something is true, and has been for the last 1000 years. Its just that now people feel confident enough to speak up when something annoys them.

Just like you are when its suggested that you cannot post the jokes you want. Why are YOU so offended by that notion? See, cuts both ways.

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I think there is some risk with a thread like this but I quite like the idea of a thread, with an appropriate warning that you may well read stuff in here you find offensive or difficult. A place for those jokes that do make you wince on the basis of reader beware.

It is not a place for pure insults, racism or other prejudice and I guess ultimately it comes down to the Mods/Admins to decide where the line is and other posters to just accept that is a judgement call and you will probably not agree with every decision.

I didn't see the last one to cause a stir. Given what has been allowed in the past, I can assume it was simply insulting/denigrating without any saving grace. It's very hard to write a perfect set of rules for such a thread, but most of us know in our gut when "Poor Taste" moves into insult and prejudice.

Quite how we resolve to learn from these examples, when a post crosses the line it's handy to have the example to refer to so people can start to build a consensus based on precedent of where that line is.

For me, closing it down is overkill, but then I'm not the one having to deal with reported posts and the backlash of having to make a call and implement it. I think overall, the mods have trodden the path pretty skilfully so far (in this thread at least ) so if you can keep it up, do so.
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I think changing the name to something more descriptive would be an eminently more appropriate way forward than closing/deleting/censoring it (but that's just my opinion).
To answer your question; I do not want to offend nor do I set out to do so. We should note that we are now talking about the philosophy behind our opinions and have moved the topic off from closing down this thread on this website.

Philosophically I would say that to set out to cause offense for its own ends is a deplorable aspiration. I would also say that setting out with the objective to cause no offense is equally deplorable and carries with it a number of attendant problems for individuals and societies. Entirely aside from the fact that the truth is always a casualty of well-meaning censorship, a good enough reason alone to do away with the idea, it is as an expression of harmlessness that inoffensiveness becomes even more depressing. Harmlessness robs the individual of agency and the ability to change just about anything in the world – good or bad. One of the reasons for this is that change is always a destructive act as what was is replaced by something new, sometimes violently so. Harmlessness and complete inoffensiveness are impossible and undesirable outcomes to pursue in my opinion. I’m not alone in this thinking and as you might imagine, others disagree. From that point on you can see quite easily how the robust exchange of views, essential to formulate well rounded and understood positions, can easily be shut down by those that cry offence and those that yield to their demands. Which brings us back to where this all kicked off….

I appreciate that plotting a path through all of that is not easy – Good luck with it! I hope what I have written above makes sense and is received in the same good faith that it is shared in.
Both good posts here and I dont have much to add to them other than to appreciate the time to argue the case for this thread.

I think TBH Im leaning towards a renaming of this thread and a clearer guideline to what we expect to be acceptable here. (i.e nothing racist, homophobic etc) Those things are absolutely not acceptable on the rest of this site, so they shouldn't have an exception on this thread either.

But if there is more to be said, lets chat about it first.
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Old 18-10-19, 07:59 AM   #2804
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Oh and Ill echo Dom here. I absolutely do not understand the obsession with Greta Thunberg. Its like being annoyed at David Attenborough. They say the same bloody stuff.
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Old 18-10-19, 08:20 AM   #2805
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Maybe those offended by her don't like being told what to do by a young,female foreigner?
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Old 18-10-19, 09:01 AM   #2806
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Old 18-10-19, 09:11 AM   #2807
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Also saying that its 2019 every one is offended by something is true, and has been for the last 1000 years. Its just that now people feel confident enough to speak up when something annoys them.
There is more to it than that. In our current world of over-sharing and the curation of identity online there is currency in being offended. At least being seen to be offended by the 'right' things by others. Social media makes people tend towards projecting what they think other people want them to project, to fit in and gain approval. Virtue signalling really is a thing.
When once disagreeing with something with a tut would have been psychologically sufficient, now we incentivise more extreme reactions that are more likely to break through the noise of millions of people fighting for attention. The meaning of offense has changed, people used to be annoyed by things that they now consider are offensive to them, and they expect people to offer them more consideration and respect when it's framed in that way. And why wouldn't they, it works?
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Old 18-10-19, 09:29 AM   #2808
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Maybe those offended by her don't like being told what to do by a young,female foreigner?
Does anyone like being told what to do by a child? It's inevitable, when adults choose to push a child to the forefront to achieve their own PR goals, some people are going to react positively, and some negatively. From their perspective, she has an innocence and honestly that only children still possess, and on a topic like saving the planet, good Vs evil then such a pure message works for many people. Maybe it wouldn't work so well if a 16 year old was selected to tour the world with proposals for banking reform or such like. But such a stategy clearly isn't going to appeal to everyone and it's entirety understandable that some with push back against a strategy of a child preaching about how the world is in emotive language.

Obviously, people attacking her personality are horrible people. People promoting her and, essentially, exploiting a child, well although their hearts are likely in the right place, I find their actions hard to approve of.
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Old 18-10-19, 09:34 AM   #2809
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There is more to it than that. In our current world of over-sharing and the curation of identity online there is currency in being offended. At least being seen to be offended by the 'right' things by others. Social media makes people tend towards projecting what they think other people want them to project, to fit in and gain approval. Virtue signalling really is a thing.
When once disagreeing with something would have been psychologically sufficient, now we incentivise more extreme reactions that are more likely to break through the noise of millions of people fighting for attention. The meaning of offense has changed, people used to be annoyed by things that they now consider are offensive to them, and they expect people to offer them more consideration and respect when it's framed in that way. And why wouldn't they, it works?
I think there is a danger(?) about confusing people on social media, with people in general. Most people I know, 90% are not on Twitter and probably 50% are no longer on facebook and even less use it.

So it to me is a very intense magnifying glass. People can speak up about it, so they do. Giving it more weight when others chime in too.

But think about your daily life, your normal interactions. How many times have you been told outside of social media "That offends me, you cant say that" Id guess it was significantly less than online?
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Old 18-10-19, 09:54 AM   #2810
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I don't remember hearing that someone was offended in real life, it must be that long ago, it's not a widely used term. I agree that there is a big disparity. But here we are, on social media, trying to protect people and their online personas from being 'online offended'.
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Old 23-10-19, 09:17 PM   #2811
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To me this isnt a free speech issue. Its an issue with the thread and the title of the thread emboldening people to post jokes on here, that probably on the rest of the forum they wouldn't say.

Currently im undecided, and it seems the community is pretty split (70/30ish) at the moment. The people that seem to love this thread, really love it.

Maybe a renaming of the thread would be a better way to tackle it. "Crap Jokes" or something? Bad taste to me implies that its almost free reign to post whatever you think is funny, ignoring the consequences and others who post on this community.

With regards to your question as to whats wrong with offending people. Id like to throw back at you this one. Why do you want to offend people?
I havent seen many posts that offend people to be honest. If i make a derogatory comment about Everton, am i offending someoneís uncle or Dad?
I think you are being a little sanctimonious and forgetting you are on a light hearted football site not a christian forum.
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Old 23-10-19, 09:23 PM   #2812
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I havent seen many posts that offend people to be honest. If i make a derogatory comment about Everton, am i offending someoneís uncle or Dad?

I think you are being a little sanctimonious and forgetting you are on a light hearted football site not a christian forum.
I think you've missed the point
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Old 23-10-19, 10:05 PM   #2813
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You lot sound like my Polish missus. Leave the fucking thread on here, Jesus. Every last post in the last couple of pages could have come out of her mouth. She's a diamond in many regards, but fuck me, tell a joke she doesn't quite get and it's like I'VE invaded fucking Poland! Bunch of miserable cunts on here. My dad's best mate is a hundreds of millions venture capitalist from Tooting. He travels the world and does fuck all but 5star hotels, he's a shareholder at Spurs, and he does NOTHING but tell jokes all fucking day in the broadest of Landan accents befitting of this thread. So what? Are we going to become all German? The Germans, and I'm born and bred in this pithole of a technocrat fucking abyss, are the fucking worst for "I'm so offended by a JOKE".

Actually, if we PC'd this joke thread, we could call it The German And Polish Funzone. That'd be great.

But yea, in the end, whatevs. This whole subforum is shite anyway. Media has moved on. No one posts gifs (but thanks Red Polo for your 'once every two months' contribution). No one posts videos. Everything else is dead. So might as well just delete the whole fucking subforum. Saves me hoping for an update post in the early hours, when everything else has been read. Amen.
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Old 24-10-19, 01:41 PM   #2814
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How about people who are offended by poor/bad taste jokes not open the thread called "Poor/Bad Taste Jokes"?

Although, that would of course deprive them of an opportunity to be "triggered" into "calling out" people for having the "problematic" opinions, which seems to be a favoured pastime for fascists in 2019.
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Old 24-10-19, 01:55 PM   #2815
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How about people who are offended by poor/bad taste jokes not open the thread called "Poor/Bad Taste Jokes"?

Although, that would of course deprive them of an opportunity to be "triggered" into "calling out" people for having the "problematic" opinions, which seems to be a favoured pastime for fascists in 2019.
Are you seriously comparing people on here who reported a racist joke (not a million miles from the Origi banner at the match last night) to fascists?
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Old 24-10-19, 05:04 PM   #2816
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Are you seriously comparing people on here who reported a racist joke (not a million miles from the Origi banner at the match last night) to fascists?
no

I am comparing people who continuously seek to stand in judgment over others, who go on the internet and tell people what they are allowed to think and write, and who try to force their own values on to others to fascists.

If a joke is in breach of the forum rules or the law, that is a separate matter. I didn't see the offending joke in question, my point was a broader one.
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Old 24-10-19, 05:18 PM   #2817
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no



I am comparing people who continuously seek to stand in judgment over others, who go on the internet and tell people what they are allowed to think and write, and who try to force their own values on to others to fascists.



If a joke is in breach of the forum rules or the law, that is a separate matter. I didn't see the offending joke in question, my point was a broader one.
We'll, it was that joke which provoked this particular episode of est naval gazing. At which point, legitimate questions were asked. Where do you draw the line? Do we even want to draw line? Is this thread a relic of the past? Has the world moved on? Have *we* moved on from this kind of thing?

I don't think anyone is telling anyone what they should and shouldn't post beyond being unless the content is racist, misogynistic, discriminatory or whatever. That goes without saying, right?

Some people have taken it that way though, it seems.

Personally I'm not bothered whether the thread stays or goes. It's hardly a body of comic genius. For the most part, it's pretty shit imo and losing it wouldn't be a loss to the site. It doesn't really add anything.

The most ironic part of all this was that hardly anyone posted in the thread until the naval gazing started. Now it's positively trending.
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Old 24-10-19, 05:22 PM   #2818
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Ill address this first. As I see it a lot, all over the place.

If people are offended, why are you so annoyed by it? Also saying that its 2019 every one is offended by something is true, and has been for the last 1000 years. Its just that now people feel confident enough to speak up when something annoys them.

Just like you are when its suggested that you cannot post the jokes you want. Why are YOU so offended by that notion? See, cuts both ways.





Both good posts here and I dont have much to add to them other than to appreciate the time to argue the case for this thread.

I think TBH Im leaning towards a renaming of this thread and a clearer guideline to what we expect to be acceptable here. (i.e nothing racist, homophobic etc) Those things are absolutely not acceptable on the rest of this site, so they shouldn't have an exception on this thread either.

But if there is more to be said, lets chat about it first.
I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. I think people are just far more likely to be offended these days, or to at least to act offended. Many of these are nothing more than pharisees, seeking the support of their online communities, chasing likes and hoping for retweets.

I loaded the BBC site this morning and read a short article about Paul Hollywood feeling the need to apologise because he'd tweeted a photo of some cakes with the tag "Diabetes on a plate". Cue offence. I'm sure those whose posts appeared on the BBC article were very happy. Mission accomplished.

There's a massive difference between being annoyed that a thread is deleted, as opposed to someone being offended by say a sexist joke. You choose to be offended by the joke posted in a "Bad Taste" joke thread, but you have no choice if you sit on the other side of the fence and the thread is removed in its entirety.

I think things are just moving too quickly. People of a certain age are supposed to be able to keep up, but the goal posts are constantly moving. Those of a certain age group are also less likely to be living their lives on social media, so have less exposure to the new set of rules. We've grown up through different times and developed thicker skin, yet we're supposed to be able to change at the flick of a switch, regardless of whether you believe that the offence is genuine or just virtue signalling.
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Old 24-10-19, 06:18 PM   #2819
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I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. I think people are just far more likely to be offended these days, or to at least to act offended. Many of these are nothing more than pharisees, seeking the support of their online communities, chasing likes and hoping for retweets.

I loaded the BBC site this morning and read a short article about Paul Hollywood feeling the need to apologise because he'd tweeted a photo of some cakes with the tag "Diabetes on a plate". Cue offence. I'm sure those whose posts appeared on the BBC article were very happy. Mission accomplished.

There's a massive difference between being annoyed that a thread is deleted, as opposed to someone being offended by say a sexist joke. You choose to be offended by the joke posted in a "Bad Taste" joke thread, but you have no choice if you sit on the other side of the fence and the thread is removed in its entirety.

I think things are just moving too quickly. People of a certain age are supposed to be able to keep up, but the goal posts are constantly moving. Those of a certain age group are also less likely to be living their lives on social media, so have less exposure to the new set of rules. We've grown up through different times and developed thicker skin, yet we're supposed to be able to change at the flick of a switch, regardless of whether you believe that the offence is genuine or just virtue signalling.


The internet, but particularly social media, has turned people into wankers.
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Old 24-10-19, 06:53 PM   #2820
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The internet, but particularly social media, has turned people into wankers.
This is the answer
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Old 24-10-19, 07:08 PM   #2821
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Wankers always existed but it was easier to ignore them
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Old 24-10-19, 07:15 PM   #2822
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I wasn't "offended" by the posting of a racist rape joke - I was angry and disappointed.
That particular trope (black men being driven to rape white women) has been used to justify racist violence since the 1800's.
There's no defending it and any attempt to include it a wider debate about how easily people are "offended" nowadays is disingenuous.
It's a racist,misogynistic nasty trope pretending to be a joke.
Keep that shit to your WhatsApp groups.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:06 PM   #2823
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I wasn't "offended" by the posting of a racist rape joke - I was angry and disappointed.
That particular trope (black men being driven to rape white women) has been used to justify racist violence since the 1800's.
There's no defending it and any attempt to include it a wider debate about how easily people are "offended" nowadays is disingenuous.
It's a racist,misogynistic nasty trope pretending to be a joke.
Keep that shit to your WhatsApp groups.
I have no idea about the original joke and was referring only to the point made that people are not more easily offended today, with which I wholeheartedly disagree. They are, and are positively encouraged to do so.

That said, people complaining about jokes in a thread titled "Poor/Bad Taste Jokes" are akin to people with peanut allergies complaining to KP after they knowingly munch on a handful of Dry Roasted.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:19 PM   #2824
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I have no idea about the original joke
Ladies and gents, this whole debate in a nutshell.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:29 PM   #2825
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So you're fine with racist rape jokes being posted?
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Old 24-10-19, 09:36 PM   #2826
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So you're fine with racist rape jokes being posted?
At best a strange interpretation of my post, but really just a vile thing to suggest about someone with fuck all basis to do so.

My point was that when people come on here complaining about others getting purportedly offended about "a joke", but are then the most vocal people whingeing about how quick everyone else is to take offence, then you find out they haven't even seen what set it all off, the irony meter is maxed the fuck out.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:38 PM   #2827
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So you're fine with racist rape jokes being posted?
Its not something I would ever post, and neither would I find amusing, nice try though.

Edit. Wasn't aimed at me, or was it? Can't people quote if they're addressing a particular post.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:42 PM   #2828
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At best a strange interpretation of my post, but really just a vile thing to suggest about someone with fuck all basis to do so.

My point was that when people come on here complaining about others getting purportedly offended about "a joke", but are then the most vocal people whingeing about how quick everyone else is to take offence, then you find out they haven't even seen what set it all off, the irony meter is maxed the fuck out.
You'd posted after Fabinho - I agree with you totally.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:43 PM   #2829
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Its not something I would ever post, and neither would I find amusing, nice try though.

Edit. Wasn't aimed at me, or was it? Can't people quote if they're addressing a particular post.
So you're not ok with them being posted?
Racist rape jokes that is.
Just so we're all clear about the "joke" that started this spirited defence of the right to be grossly offensive.

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Old 24-10-19, 09:44 PM   #2830
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At best a strange interpretation of my post, but really just a vile thing to suggest about someone with fuck all basis to do so.

My point was that when people come on here complaining about others getting purportedly offended about "a joke", but are then the most vocal people whingeing about how quick everyone else is to take offence, then you find out they haven't even seen what set it all off, the irony meter is maxed the fuck out.
The debate has evolved, and I was replying specifically to a part of a post I'd highlighted about people being generally more easily offended today or not. I don't see the irony there to be honest.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:49 PM   #2831
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So you're not ok with them being posted?
Its not for me to say if it should be allowed or not.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:54 PM   #2832
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The debate has evolved, and I was replying specifically to a part of a post I'd highlighted about people being generally more easily offended today or not. I don't see the irony there to be honest.
Well, don't want to labour the point, but the obvious irony is that those complaining about others being overly sensitive seem to be the most outraged and offended. That they may not have even seen the inciting 'joke' is just the cherry on top.
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Old 24-10-19, 09:56 PM   #2833
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Its not for me to say if it should be allowed or not.
I don't think you're being asked to be the sole decider. Just asked your opinion
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Old 24-10-19, 10:01 PM   #2834
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Well, don't want to labour the point, but the obvious irony is that those complaining about others being overly sensitive seem to be the most outraged and offended. That they may not have even seen the inciting 'joke' is just the cherry on top.
It depends on your interpretation of offended. I'm certainly not offended, but I find it an interesting subject for debate and a fascinating topic as its a source of such differing opinions.
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Old 24-10-19, 10:06 PM   #2835
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I don't think you're being asked to be the sole decider. Just asked your opinion
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Old 24-10-19, 10:11 PM   #2836
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It depends on your interpretation of offended. I'm certainly not offended, but I find it an interesting subject for debate and a fascinating topic as its a source of such differing opinions.
Well that's definitely true.

I'd suggest most people are not just 'offended' it's a shit way of trivialising something and reducing it to being a matter of sensitivity and nothing more. It doesn't particularly matter whether people are offended or not. It's the other stuff surrounding it that counts.
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Old 24-10-19, 10:57 PM   #2837
dom9
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Originally Posted by Red_Polo View Post




My point was that when people come on here complaining about others getting purportedly offended about "a joke", but are then the most vocal people whingeing about how quick everyone else is to take offence, then you find out they haven't even seen what set it all off, the irony meter is maxed the fuck out.
Yep. 100%

So many people piling in and completely missing the original point. And then inventing a completely new made up point.
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Old 25-10-19, 02:09 AM   #2838
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This one may be the thread closer ..

I went to my local Chinese last night
I ordered chicken chow mein egg fried rice and Singapore crispy noodles
The guy tipped it loose into a plastic carrier bag
I said what the fuck are you doing?
He said we’re not allowed to put Chinese into containers anymore
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Old 25-10-19, 02:25 AM   #2839
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Ooof. Now that's an example of bad taste.
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Old 25-10-19, 02:38 AM   #2840
Patricks_Berger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacon View Post
This one may be the thread closer ..

I went to my local Chinese last night
I ordered chicken chow mein egg fried rice and Singapore crispy noodles
The guy tipped it loose into a plastic carrier bag
I said what the fuck are you doing?
He said weíre not allowed to put Chinese into containers anymore
Ouch!

Some will see the dark humour in that, and others not.

Itís a prime example of a poor/bad taste joke of which there are loads on this thread, but Iím interested to see if people think itís racist or not.
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