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Old 05-11-19, 01:24 PM   #4081
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Wow - pity City werenít treated the same!
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Old 05-11-19, 09:15 PM   #4082
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No surprise that they've been caught (eventually) - it's been brewing for ages - but I don't think anyone would have guessed the size of the points deduction.

I can see it being reduced on appeal but even if it isn't there's no chance they will get relegated. In fact if everyone beats everyone this season (which happened for quite a bit of last year), they may even win enough games to make the play offs.
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Old 05-11-19, 09:23 PM   #4083
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I dunno, that’s 5 BP wins to even draw level. Apparently they’d have finished 10th with a 35pt deduction last year.!

Totally devalues the last 3 years of the prem.

Similar to Rangers in the SPL.
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Old 05-11-19, 09:55 PM   #4084
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I dunno, that’s 5 BP wins to even draw level. Apparently they’d have finished 10th with a 35pt deduction last year.!

Totally devalues the last 3 years of the prem.

Similar to Rangers in the SPL.

Ok, maybe the play offs would be a stretch but McCall is a very canny guy who rotates his players allowing equal weight to be given to the Champions Cup.

If it was all about survival, the Cup would no doubt take a back seat and he would play his strongest team every week in the league.

I'm absolutely certain Premiership rugby don't want Saracens relegated (a season or two back there was even talk of getting rid of relegation altogether) so I reckon they want to demonstrate how seriously the offence is viewed, whilst making sure Sarries retain their top division status.

On reflection they may decide to reduce the points sanction to absolutely ensure this.
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Old 05-11-19, 10:59 PM   #4085
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Ok, maybe the play offs would be a stretch but McCall is a very canny guy who rotates his players allowing equal weight to be given to the Champions Cup.

If it was all about survival, the Cup would no doubt take a back seat and he would play his strongest team every week in the league.

I'm absolutely certain Premiership rugby don't want Saracens relegated (a season or two back there was even talk of getting rid of relegation altogether) so I reckon they want to demonstrate how seriously the offence is viewed, whilst making sure Sarries retain their top division status.

On reflection they may decide to reduce the points sanction to absolutely ensure this.


Yeah the points deduction would not have relegated Saracens in any of the last 4 years. Itís tough but it would harm Prem if they werenít in it.

Itís a severe punishment, but, itís cheating. A stand has to be taken.

Agree that the appeal will probably see the points ban reduced to 25 or so.
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Old 17-11-19, 09:25 PM   #4086
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No Champions Cup chat lads?

(I can't contribute yet because I've only just started to watch the games on record, but give it a couple of days ).
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Old 17-11-19, 10:00 PM   #4087
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Watched Edinburgh (Challenge Cup) beat Agen on Friday night. Second string BP win.

Saw Exeter play very well and beat La Rochelle.

Was at my Sons rugby training today at Heriots and stayed on to watch first half of the Heriots Super Six game. It was decent enough. Crowd of around 1000.

And just saw this filth from Finn.

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Old 17-11-19, 11:16 PM   #4088
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No Champions Cup chat lads?

(I can't contribute yet because I've only just started to watch the games on record, but give it a couple of days ).
Watched Munster and highlights of the other Irish provinces. It was a typical ground out Munster away win and v happy to get the bonus point.

Sarries and Racing in the group make it tough especially with Racing thumping the Sarries third team ......not sure how the World Cup will affect teams but it seems more open this year. If Sarries regroup they are the side to beat......yet again
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Old 18-11-19, 02:08 PM   #4089
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Saracens taking their medicine.

They've gotten off lightly imo.

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Old 18-11-19, 03:28 PM   #4090
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Just bought 2x tickets for the Ireland Vs Scotland 6 nations game in February! Farrell's first home game in charge, gonna be unbelievable!
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Old 18-11-19, 06:12 PM   #4091
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Just bought 2x tickets for the Ireland Vs Scotland 6 nations game in February! Farrell's first home game in charge, gonna be unbelievable!
good stuff - Iím sure Buzzo will come and stay with you if you are looking to get rid of the spare
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Old 19-11-19, 09:15 AM   #4092
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Been reading quite a bit of the UK and Ireland's response to the WC and I must say, I'm pretty disappointed how bitter and twisted comments from respected people are. Sour grapes everywhere. I expect it from England, but wtf is up with the other home nations, didn't realise they loved England so much.

Guscott saying there shouldn't be that many subs as it gives one team advantage over the other All teams have the same number of subs, it's upto everyone individually to how they use their squad effectively (see Jones' comments about a squad). The fact that that we have more depth in the forwards isn't our problem, each team had 15 players on the pitch. If anything with the way the game is going there should be more speed with all of the collisions and its intensity.

Won only because we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. Wales tight 5 were about 40kgs more than SA's and I think their scrum outweighed us by 15kg and England's scrum was 20kg more than ours. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, as the Boks skilless neanderthals just smashed whatever was in front of them. Not one word about Kolbe's quality etc either.

Neil Francis and other pricks implying of steroid abuse. Come on now, that's a joke, yes I'm sure there are many players using performance enhancers in the world (SA included). Referencing individual cases to try to say everyone is doing it is just madness. Unless there's categorical proof, it's complete hearsay.

Anyway, rant over, just a bit bemused about the reaction.
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Old 19-11-19, 10:14 AM   #4093
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It has only been positive from what I’ve read and listened to up in Scotland.

Most pundits saying the bar has been raised in terms of what we should be expecting from a World Cup host.

In terms of the match I’d say most pundits expected an England win, but (and nobody could argue) that SA deserved the win. The reality is it was a totally comprehensive win, unusual for a WC Final.

All the media I saw including post match (where Bryan Habana was a pundit) was hugely congratulatory.

In terms of Subs, England have used that tactic as effectively as anyone in World Rugby over the years so that’s a weird one. I agree to an extent, but not because I think there has been any particular benefits to one country or another.
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Old 19-11-19, 10:18 AM   #4094
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Originally Posted by Zapater View Post
Been reading quite a bit of the UK and Ireland's response to the WC and I must say, I'm pretty disappointed how bitter and twisted comments from respected people are. Sour grapes everywhere. I expect it from England, but wtf is up with the other home nations, didn't realise they loved England so much.

Guscott saying there shouldn't be that many subs as it gives one team advantage over the other All teams have the same number of subs, it's upto everyone individually to how they use their squad effectively (see Jones' comments about a squad). The fact that that we have more depth in the forwards isn't our problem, each team had 15 players on the pitch. If anything with the way the game is going there should be more speed with all of the collisions and its intensity.

Won only because we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. Wales tight 5 were about 40kgs more than SA's and I think their scrum outweighed us by 15kg and England's scrum was 20kg more than ours. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, as the Boks skilless neanderthals just smashed whatever was in front of them. Not one word about Kolbe's quality etc either.

Neil Francis and other pricks implying of steroid abuse. Come on now, that's a joke, yes I'm sure there are many players using performance enhancers in the world (SA included). Referencing individual cases to try to say everyone is doing it is just madness. Unless there's categorical proof, it's complete hearsay.

Anyway, rant over, just a bit bemused about the reaction.
Doesn't represent what the reaction has been over here at all, but there we are!
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Old 19-11-19, 11:12 AM   #4095
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Been reading quite a bit of the UK and Ireland's response to the WC and I must say, I'm pretty disappointed how bitter and twisted comments from respected people are. Sour grapes everywhere. I expect it from England, but wtf is up with the other home nations, didn't realise they loved England so much.

Guscott saying there shouldn't be that many subs as it gives one team advantage over the other All teams have the same number of subs, it's upto everyone individually to how they use their squad effectively (see Jones' comments about a squad). The fact that that we have more depth in the forwards isn't our problem, each team had 15 players on the pitch. If anything with the way the game is going there should be more speed with all of the collisions and its intensity.

Won only because we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. Wales tight 5 were about 40kgs more than SA's and I think their scrum outweighed us by 15kg and England's scrum was 20kg more than ours. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, as the Boks skilless neanderthals just smashed whatever was in front of them. Not one word about Kolbe's quality etc either.

Neil Francis and other pricks implying of steroid abuse. Come on now, that's a joke, yes I'm sure there are many players using performance enhancers in the world (SA included). Referencing individual cases to try to say everyone is doing it is just madness. Unless there's categorical proof, it's complete hearsay.

Anyway, rant over, just a bit bemused about the reaction.
Watch/listen to Gatland (2 mins in). The reaction to SA winning the World Cup has been very good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07tvv33
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Old 19-11-19, 01:08 PM   #4096
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Been reading quite a bit of the UK and Ireland's response to the WC and I must say, I'm pretty disappointed how bitter and twisted comments from respected people are. Sour grapes everywhere. I expect it from England, but wtf is up with the other home nations, didn't realise they loved England so much.

Guscott saying there shouldn't be that many subs as it gives one team advantage over the other All teams have the same number of subs, it's upto everyone individually to how they use their squad effectively (see Jones' comments about a squad). The fact that that we have more depth in the forwards isn't our problem, each team had 15 players on the pitch. If anything with the way the game is going there should be more speed with all of the collisions and its intensity.

Won only because we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. Wales tight 5 were about 40kgs more than SA's and I think their scrum outweighed us by 15kg and England's scrum was 20kg more than ours. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, as the Boks skilless neanderthals just smashed whatever was in front of them. Not one word about Kolbe's quality etc either.

Neil Francis and other pricks implying of steroid abuse. Come on now, that's a joke, yes I'm sure there are many players using performance enhancers in the world (SA included). Referencing individual cases to try to say everyone is doing it is just madness. Unless there's categorical proof, it's complete hearsay.

Anyway, rant over, just a bit bemused about the reaction.
A prick is the right word - he is contravertial for no reason other than to be heard. Him and Stephen Jones are dinosaurs
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Old 19-11-19, 01:36 PM   #4097
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Can't stand Stephen Jones or Stuart Barnes.
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Old 19-11-19, 11:54 PM   #4098
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Dave Rennie leaving Glasgow at the end of the season to be the new Aussie coach.
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Old 22-11-19, 11:40 AM   #4099
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Originally Posted by Zapater View Post
Been reading quite a bit of the UK and Ireland's response to the WC and I must say, I'm pretty disappointed how bitter and twisted comments from respected people are. Sour grapes everywhere. I expect it from England, but wtf is up with the other home nations, didn't realise they loved England so much.

Guscott saying there shouldn't be that many subs as it gives one team advantage over the other All teams have the same number of subs, it's upto everyone individually to how they use their squad effectively (see Jones' comments about a squad). The fact that that we have more depth in the forwards isn't our problem, each team had 15 players on the pitch. If anything with the way the game is going there should be more speed with all of the collisions and its intensity.

Won only because we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. Wales tight 5 were about 40kgs more than SA's and I think their scrum outweighed us by 15kg and England's scrum was 20kg more than ours. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, as the Boks skilless neanderthals just smashed whatever was in front of them. Not one word about Kolbe's quality etc either.

Neil Francis and other pricks implying of steroid abuse. Come on now, that's a joke, yes I'm sure there are many players using performance enhancers in the world (SA included). Referencing individual cases to try to say everyone is doing it is just madness. Unless there's categorical proof, it's complete hearsay.

Anyway, rant over, just a bit bemused about the reaction.


All the coverage I've seen post WC has been overwhelmingly positive. In fact on BT Sport (where all Premiership and Champs Cup games are shown in the UK) it's been an extended SA love in.

I don't agree with the way that Guscott is framing his point (and generally he is regarded as a dick), but I do think there is a case for less subs; absolutely nothing to do with the WCF but to reduce injuries in the game.

Once upon a time most of the players were going to play the full 80 mins and their size reflected that.

Now almost half are only going to play between 40 and 60 minutes so they can be bigger. And bigger players = bigger collisions = more serious injuries.

World Rugby keep trying to tinker with the rules to make the game safer but the size thing isn't going to go away in terms of its' contribution towards people getting badly hurt.

That and the reffing of the ruck area which is almost never reffed to the parameters laid down in the Laws of the Game - even by the very best officials.
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Old 22-11-19, 11:53 AM   #4100
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Watched Munster and highlights of the other Irish provinces. It was a typical ground out Munster away win and v happy to get the bonus point.

Sarries and Racing in the group make it tough especially with Racing thumping the Sarries third team ......not sure how the World Cup will affect teams but it seems more open this year. If Sarries regroup they are the side to beat......yet again

I've finished my catch up although I did watch a couple of games on x 2 e.g. Leinster's match against the nobodies

I think the tournament is going to be pretty open this year. Sarries have to concentrate on domestic survival so presumably there 2nds / 3rds will get more game time over the coming weeks which may prove costly unless they can scrape through and then pick the first team in the QTR's.

Munster look solid as you say Nev and I was impressed by Glasgow even if the score line didn't reflect their dominance.

Ulster did better than I had anticipated as did Northampton. The Saints are not going to win it but they continued to look like a reasonable bet to challenge domestically this year.

Exeter will need to show a bit more consistency than in recent years but obviously their win over LR was noteworthy. I can't help thinking though that if Slade hadn't caught the interception and scored then LR would have had a try of their own and all the momentum going into the last part of the match. It's amazing how these games change on a matter of inches.
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Old 22-11-19, 02:06 PM   #4101
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Guess I was wrong about what's has been reflected, but it seemed every third day there was some controversy re a journo or ex player coming up with some bizarre call, claim or knock. Guess that kind of thing filters through more so as it makes more of a splash. The discussions of sour grapes from the North has definitely been had a few times here; rightly or wrongly.

It's all about perception and framing I suppose when it comes to media and comms if you want to get technical haha.

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I don't agree with the way that Guscott is framing his point (and generally he is regarded as a dick), but I do think there is a case for less subs; absolutely nothing to do with the WCF but to reduce injuries in the game.
I can understand the argument for that, but I'm not too sure about it. There are so many specialist forwards who aren't built to last for more than 20-40 min. They'd be ineffectual if that were the case and we'd be looking at more rugby league styled players which would result in a number of excellent players being practically obsolete. Imagine Steven Kitshoff playing 80.

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Dave Rennie leaving Glasgow at the end of the season to be the new Aussie coach.
No huge surprise there, but excellent appointment. Could really get them firing. Although could also be another Robbie Deans. Although he should be good for them, a strong Wallabies team is good for the sport regardless of how insufferable they are.
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Old 22-11-19, 02:10 PM   #4102
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Troubling news about ex-lion Tom Smith

Didn't get himself checked straight away apparently.

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Old 23-11-19, 01:04 PM   #4103
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Here you go Zap . . more SA related stuff on the BBC for you to enjoy; like I said a love in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50519816
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Old 23-11-19, 01:08 PM   #4104
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Hogg apparently fit to start for the Chiefs against Glasgow today Buzzo.

You'll be wishing him well no doubt?

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Old 23-11-19, 02:26 PM   #4105
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Definitely.

Should be a cracking match.

There was a decent interview with him in the Guardian saying he is loving it down there so far.

I was at Murrayfield last night for a stodgy Edinburgh game v Bordeaux (second in Top 14) A 16 all draw which Edinburgh should have won. Still a few players to return but my son got a pic with one of them, Darcy Graham!
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Old 23-11-19, 07:48 PM   #4106
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Finn Russell again. Meg grubber try..!

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Old 24-11-19, 03:45 PM   #4107
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Definitely.

Should be a cracking match.

There was a decent interview with him in the Guardian saying he is loving it down there so far.

I was at Murrayfield last night for a stodgy Edinburgh game v Bordeaux (second in Top 14) A 16 all draw which Edinburgh should have won. Still a few players to return but my son got a pic with one of them, Darcy Graham!



I wasn't sure if Scottish club trumped Scottish player.

Glasgow excellent for a half but then tried to play too much rugby in the wrong areas whilst the Chiefs started playing like the Chiefs after the break.

If Exeter were consistent they would look good for a decent run in the competition, but they can't play averagely and win like the very top teams are capable of doing.
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Old 29-11-19, 09:50 PM   #4108
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Watching the Munster Edinburgh game, a decent game, with one of the most one eyed biased Irish commentators I've ever listened to

13-10 with about 30 to go.
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Old 29-11-19, 10:26 PM   #4109
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Edinburgh win 18-16.

They even gave the MotM to Munster FFS
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Old 29-11-19, 11:44 PM   #4110
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Watching the Munster Youths Edinburgh game, a decent game, with one of the most one eyed biased Irish commentators I've ever listened to

13-10 with about 30 to go.
Corrected it for ya - they even played it in Musgrave. A biased Irish man - weíll i never
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Old 30-11-19, 12:59 AM   #4111
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Corrected it for ya - they even played it in Musgrave. A biased Irish man - weíll i never
You can only beat the team put out in front of you Nev, you don't get to pick the oppositions starting XV

The commentary was outrageous, co-commentary was ok, but the lead guy was unbelievable.

I'd say Edinburgh were ahead on every stat and deserved the win. Almost constant territory and possession.

BTW. You want to listen to when Chris Paterson commentates on Edinburgh games, he is almost apologetic if Edinburgh are playing well which is equally annoying.
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Old 30-11-19, 09:31 AM   #4112
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You can only beat the team put out in front of you Nev, you don't get to pick the oppositions starting XV

The commentary was outrageous, co-commentary was ok, but the lead guy was unbelievable.

I'd say Edinburgh were ahead on every stat and deserved the win. Almost constant territory and possession.

BTW. You want to listen to when Chris Paterson commentates on Edinburgh games, he is almost apologetic if Edinburgh are playing well which is equally annoying.
It might have been Michael Corcoran - a very ardent Munster fan.....he does radio and sometimes tv
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Old 30-11-19, 11:03 AM   #4113
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It’s a real boon for Edinburgh points wise to get a relatively straight forward win.

I doubt many other teams will get such assistance away at Munster.

Richard Cockerill as ever spoke well and honestly post match.
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Old 30-11-19, 11:39 AM   #4114
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Finn Russell again. Meg grubber try..!

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/sta...99901081407490
Brilliant play from Russell. He reminds me of the original Jonathan Davies.
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Old 04-12-19, 03:19 PM   #4115
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John Barclay retiring.

He went off with an HIA in the Edinburgh Bordeaux game I was at. And has previously had most of a season out with an HIA.

A career in the media awaits. His Scotland days were numbered with Jamie Ritchie, Magnus Bradbury and Hamish Watson coming through.

Great player on his day. Big few years down in Scarlets. The performance which epitomised his best for me was the Calcutta Cup win in 2018. A superb back row forward performance with some excellent jackaling.

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