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Old 19-01-20, 03:34 PM   #4161
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Saracens accept their punishment and apologise for wrongdoing.

Could you imagine City in that position? They'd fight it in every court imaginable.
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Old 21-01-20, 07:14 PM   #4162
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proper order - strip the cheats of their European Cups also

Not deliberately siding with Saracens here but the CC isn't a level playing field because the English salary cap is lower than the French one and Ireland have some odd arrangements that you posted about a few days back. No idea about the Scots and I think the Welsh regions are WRFU funded.

Anyway the point I'm making is that they haven't broken any CC rules so I'm not sure how they could be stripped of the titles - it doesn't even look as if they will have their Premiership titles taken away, although that one is less up for debate IMO.
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Old 21-01-20, 07:16 PM   #4163
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Slightly amusing (maybe not for an Irishman) that the top team in the CC will end up playing them in the Qtrs. Bet Leinster are livid
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Old 21-01-20, 07:17 PM   #4164
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Slightly amusing (maybe not for an Irishman) that the top team in the CC will end up playing them in the Qtrs. Bet Leinster are livid
Ya tough game for Leinster no doubt - the winner should come from this game
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Old 22-01-20, 09:23 PM   #4165
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Not banging my own drum (much ) but noticed that Nigel Owens and Alex Rieder have clearly read one of my earlier posts in this thread

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51200652

International referee Nigel Owens suggests fewer substitutions could help make modern rugby union safer.

Speaking on Radio 4's Today Programme, he said big and strong players tend to run directly at opponents rather than trying to go past them.

But with fewer substitutions, Welshman Owens believes players would need to be smaller and lighter which would "reduce the impact" of collisions.

But he added a lot of research needed to be done first.

Owens was joined on the programme by Alex Rieder, a regular for English Premiership side Wasps until last year when his latest injury turned out to be his last - and he retired at just 28.

Rieder now wants a change in the rules to prevent further career-ending injuries and highlights a lack of enforcement of the law that prohibits players charging into a ruck to clear out players.

"I worry that could be an area where someone could have a seriously catastrophic injury," he said, with players "flying into it without repercussion"

Owens has taken charge of 76 Test matches in an international career that began in 2005 and will be in the middle when France host England in the 2020 Six Nations' opening round on Sunday, 2 February.

He said World Rugby is doing everything it can to minimise the risk of injuries.

"The negatives of playing the sport are outweighed by the positives by a long way," he said.

"It's a physical sport, a lot of people go through rugby without having a serious injury. Unfortunately for some people, they do receive an injury or they're unlucky."

But Owens believes there are "simple things" which could change the game and points to how it used to be played.

"If you think 20 or 30 years ago, or even less than that, your aim as a player when you had the ball was to beat the man in front of you and that was to try to either dummy a pass or side step around him.

"What you see now, because of the physicality and big men in the sport, is instead of running around the player they run through them.

"It comes down a lot to the coaching, the way the game is played and the players playing the game."

And he thinks allowing fewer substitutions could be the way forward with players having to adapt their approach in games to avoid impact and stay on the pitch longer.

"We as referees and referee managers in World Rugby, we're always looking at things that need to be applied firmer, which contributes to the safety of the game and that is an ongoing process," said Owens.

"It is a physical game and unless you change it beyond total recognition of what the sport is, you are going to have to accept that there is going to be a risk of injury, but a minimal risk if you compare it to people that are injured everyday in walking about doing nothing."
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Old 22-01-20, 10:06 PM   #4166
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It would definitely be good for us.

I think it makes sense, when you have an entire front row coming on after 50 mins, its purely to shore up a scrum/ensure dominance, and whereas before the contest would involve mainly the same players now you are seeing 4-5 scrum replacements.

Re. Salary cap in Scotland. We have central contracts for Edinburgh and Glasgow International players, but both have relatively small budgets so Cap not an issue. The reason marquee players (Russell, Hogg, Gray, Laidlaw) have left reviously is for the money.
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Old 22-01-20, 11:49 PM   #4167
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Saracens accept their punishment and apologise for wrongdoing.

Could you imagine City in that position? They'd fight it in every court imaginable.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:11 AM   #4168
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Yep, what Saracens have done to the league is disgraceful, and their actions subsequently have not been amazing. They new what they were doing, no matter what anyone says.

However they have accepted their punishment and will now begin to work to rectify.

No chance of that happening in football. The clout and power of club owners ensures it.
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Old 23-01-20, 12:25 PM   #4169
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Not banging my own drum (much ) but noticed that Nigel Owens and Alex Rieder have clearly read one of my earlier posts in this thread
As I said before, can't see it happening as it would render a large percentage of forwards almost useless. We'd need to find a whole bunch of rugby league styled players and Schalk Brits would need to come out of retirement to reign as the best player in the world.

Although I do get the point, as a boxing man we always speak about PEDs as dangerous if someone punches as hard in the 2nd round as they do in the last. Which obviously a sub is, in disjointed terms.
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Old 23-01-20, 03:54 PM   #4170
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For fuck sake.

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Old 23-01-20, 04:06 PM   #4171
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That's a shame
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Old 23-01-20, 04:15 PM   #4172
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Torpedoing our own chances before a ball is kicked by falling out with one of our only world class players.

Doesn't get more Scottish than that

Rumours that thats him for the tournament. Suspect a falling out with Townsend.

Cant see GT surviving another shit tournament he's taken us backwards since Cotter
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Old 23-01-20, 05:55 PM   #4173
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Torpedoing our own chances before a ball is kicked by falling out with one of our only world class players.

Doesn't get more Scottish than that

Rumours that thats him for the tournament. Suspect a falling out with Townsend.

Cant see GT surviving another shit tournament he's taken us backwards since Cotter
Thatís one from the Irish playbook - see Roy Keane and Japan/Korea World Cup
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Old 23-01-20, 07:02 PM   #4174
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Earlier I thought he had been told to go but now from what I've read it seems more likely he had a tizzy and flounced off

I think I'd read somewhere earlier that he doesn't especially get on with GT so maybe a fall out was inevitable.

We'll now have to see who's the bigger man.

(And Nev's chuffed to bits Buzzo even though he's not saying it )
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Old 23-01-20, 07:08 PM   #4175
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There was talk of a fallout at HT at Twickenham (Russell mentioned it post match) I get the feeling Russell doesn’t rate Townsends tactics.

Hastings is an able if untried deputy. It’s just we’ve nobody behind him. I hope Duncan Weir gets a recall and that things are patched up with Finn for the Calcutta.
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Old 23-01-20, 08:00 PM   #4176
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If true then he acted the idiot


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Old 23-01-20, 08:14 PM   #4177
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dupe

Last edited by Cormack74; 23-01-20 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 23-01-20, 08:18 PM   #4178
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As I said before, can't see it happening as it would render a large percentage of forwards almost useless.
It's chicken and egg. It's become like this because teams have 7 subs.

When I played as a kid there were 2 - generally one forward and one back.

Stocky people were playing back then but they had to be fit enough to go 80 mins. It would just be a return to those times. Doesn't mean it would look like rugby league.
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Old 23-01-20, 08:27 PM   #4179
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It's chicken and egg. It's become like this because teams have 7 subs.

When I played as a kid there were 2 - generally one forward and one back.

Stocky people were playing back then but they had to be fit enough to go 80 mins. It would just be a return to those times. Doesn't mean it would look like rugby league.
Whilst that is true, the speed of the game in the professional era has increased considerably. The stats on number of collisions has increased greatly, so those big players tire a lot quicker as they're making more carries/tackles in a limited period of time.

But yes, conditioning and tactics would in turn change to suit the law should it change.
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Old 24-01-20, 09:58 PM   #4180
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Darcy Graham also out.

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Old 25-01-20, 12:13 AM   #4181
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They've called up Weir I see.

He looks to have improved hugely since he's been at Worcester. He's clearly no Russel but if he can take club form with him he'll do ok if he's called upon to play.
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Old 25-01-20, 01:56 PM   #4182
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Russell has opted to play for Racing this weekend apparently which seems like a further 2 fingers up to GT.
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Old 25-01-20, 09:28 PM   #4183
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I dunno.

It’s hard to know what to believe - but if he is not going to play then he may as well play with Racing. That may well be a stipulation in his contract.

Hopefully it can be sorted out by next week so he is ready for the following game.

He had to be disciplined for getting pissed and missing training, but we have to move on from it. And he has to play.
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Old 26-01-20, 08:42 AM   #4184
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See Tana Umaga's nephew got the call up for the England squad. Anyone seen much of him? Huge rugby family, would be nice to see another one come through the ranks.
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Old 26-01-20, 10:59 AM   #4185
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So, still no clarity on what actually happened or what the eventual outcome might be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51250135

When the dam burst and Finn Russell departed the scene earlier in the week this was the brief, but knowing, response from one Scotland player: "No surprise."

The comment spoke to a situation that some say has been developing for a while now, not just something that happened in the bar of the team hotel on Sunday night or, for that matter, in the Twickenham dressing-room at half-time in the Calcutta Cup in March.

Getting clarity on what has occurred here is not easy. Different people are saying different things. What we know is that there is, so to speak, a stand-off between the stand-off and the former stand-off, between Russell, who is now in exile in Paris, and Townsend, who is picking up the pieces after the exit of his most high-profile player.

Russell's life has changed remarkably in the last year, going from Glasgow Warriors to the super rich behemoths of Racing, from Scotstoun to Paris and all the money and glamour it entails.

He is a world class 10, a player with a magician's touch but also a player upon whom so much rests, especially for his country. That pressure on him to perform, when opposing teams have him firmly in their sights, can be difficult. His demeanour is that of a wise-cracker - and he is - but he's far from care-free in his approach to rugby. He's desperate to win and carries a burden because of it.

Some players have noticed an edge between himself and his national team coach. "Undeniable" says one. "I think it's fair to say that Finn feels as if he's being picked on at times when things go wrong. Gregor will disagree with that. Everybody wants the same thing - success - but there's been issues. Was I shocked when I heard the news the other day? Really, really disappointed, but not shocked, no."

Following on from the let-down of 2019, the new year has started grimly for the coach. Since the news broke that the fly-half had left the international camp less than a fortnight before the beginning of the Six Nations, and a game against Ireland that would have seen him winning his 50th cap, there's been versions of the truth put out there, each of them contradictory in detail, each of them with the potential of adding fuel to the fire and making a rapprochement more difficult.

In one narrative, Russell was supposed to have left the team hotel around 10pm on Sunday night after drinking one too many. In another he left at around midnight after drinking considerably more than one too many and after dismissing the counsel of some senior players, who were, and remain, angered by his actions. In that version, before being collected by his family and taken away from the team hotel, he had a brief conversation with Townsend and was told his ill-discipline had cost him his place in the squad for the Ireland game. Only those present know the absolute truth. Both parties cannot be right.

Russell didn't turn up for training on Monday. One scenario had it that Townsend and Russell met later on Monday and had a positive meeting lasting hours, a deep, clear-the-air chat during which the player accepted his punishment of expulsion from the squad for the Ireland game, expressed contrition for overstepping the mark in the bar the night before, promised to apologise to his team-mates and emphasised his intention to play a full part in training on Thursday and Friday, particularly in helping Adam Hastings, who will take his place in the 10 jersey in Dublin.

That version has it that at some point between Monday and Tuesday Russell had a major change of heart and decided he wasn't sticking around in Edinburgh for the week and was heading back to Paris instead. The alternative version is that Russell was told officially that he could return to Paris and that the leaks about him 'walking out of the camp' are untrue.

Townsend, it is said, is disappointed at what has gone down. Russell, it is said, is angered by what his camp see as spin put on the story by the SRU, an organisation that his father, a former SRU employee, was unceremoniously removed from and who he subsequently won a case of unfair dismissal against. This is where we are at. A cluster-shambles.

Russell will not play against Ireland in Dublin and given that the England game is only a week later it's a bit much to think that everything will be resolved in time for the arrival of the World Cup finalists in Edinburgh. Beyond that, it's anybody's guess when Russell will play for Scotland again.

To get to a resolution, sources close to the Scotland squad say that Russell is going to have to show humility and apologise for his boozing episode on Sunday. Based on the posts that he's liked on social media that acceptance of responsibility might be a while in coming, if it comes at all.

There's an entrenchment at work here at the moment and it suits neither party. Russell misses out on playing for his country while Townsend goes into a campaign that might define his career as Scotland coach without his most influential talent. The longer this goes on the more both men lose. A mediator is required before it's too late.
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Old 26-01-20, 11:01 AM   #4186
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See Tana Umaga's nephew got the call up for the England squad. Anyone seen much of him? Huge rugby family, would be nice to see another one come through the ranks.
Promising from what I've seen so far.

But some way off International standard at this point - this is the first season he's been a regular starter for his club.

I think he was called up as what EJ calls his "Apprentices".
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Old 30-01-20, 09:00 AM   #4187
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In case anyone missed it, Folau signed a 1 year contract with the Catalan Dragons and will return to league which has caused some mayhem. Dickhead for a shit sport, good match. Honestly speaking though, would have loved to see him at the Bulls in Super Rugby when those rumours were floating around.
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Old 01-02-20, 12:19 PM   #4188
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Zero confidence for today.
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Old 01-02-20, 02:22 PM   #4189
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Zero confidence for today.
New manager on our side and he has changed it up a small bit. Back to basics for us to beat Scotland I.e. keep it tight, use the set piece and win the pack battle.

Conway, Larmour, Doris and Cooney off the bench are the ones Iím interested in
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Old 01-02-20, 03:04 PM   #4190
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Our team is massively changed.

I’m assuming Magnus Bradbury is injured.

Darcy Graham is a big loss he is electric and in brilliant form. Big challenge for Hastings today, he’s good and has improved lots but on this stage who knows.
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Old 01-02-20, 03:46 PM   #4191
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I'm looking forward to the game (not sure I'll bother with Wales v Italy). I think the tournament could be close this year with teams beating each other.

No idea what to expect from England. They theoretically have strength in depth yet a lot of injuries in certain positions which means the likes of Furbank playing.

He's shown some promise but not quite ready for International rugby IMO. I think the back three could be a bit of an issue defensively today and maybe in subsequent weeks if Watson and Nowell etc stay injured.

No idea what to expect from France and with some new players involved they could be even more maverick than they usually are. If they're going to get it together at some point in the tournament I hope it's not tomorrow.
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Old 01-02-20, 06:35 PM   #4192
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Frustrating half from us. Keep getting turned over in the Irish 22. We’ve had a lot of ball.

All to play for second half which is more than we usually have at this point.
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Old 01-02-20, 07:04 PM   #4193
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Fucking hell Hoggy.
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Old 01-02-20, 07:39 PM   #4194
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Punishing game.

Won on outstanding defence all game by Ireland.
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Old 01-02-20, 07:58 PM   #4195
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Punishing game.

Won on outstanding defence all game by Ireland.
Weird for me - watched the Liverpool game and then turned on the rugby, I watched about 5 mins and couldnít get into it. For some reason I havenít felt any excitement in the build up as I normally would.

My son has a bad flu and was lying on the coach beside me and asked could we watch the last episode of the Mandalorean......I put it in and watched it with him and saw the last 15 mins of the game.We defended well but Scotland probably deserved to win from what I saw and am listening to here.

When the same old names are being rolled out you get fed up of it a bit - would be nice to see them bin off a few of the older lads and start to blood some new players.
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Old 01-02-20, 08:21 PM   #4196
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We probably should have won, but it was down to outstanding defence (zzzzz) that we didnt.

Counts for fuck all for us. You lot won, we for the billionth time can consider what might have been.

Was a brutal test though.
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Old 01-02-20, 08:49 PM   #4197
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We probably should have won, but it was down to outstanding defence (zzzzz) that we didnt.

Counts for fuck all for us. You lot won, we for the billionth time can consider what might have been.

Was a brutal test though.
Watching the analysis now - looked a tough one.....I hope ye take it to England next week
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Old 01-02-20, 09:01 PM   #4198
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Watching the analysis now - looked a tough one.....I hope ye take it to England next week
Big time.

I'll be there. Going out for lunch then drinking pre-match.

There were some encouraging signs for us. No trys and a defeat though
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Old 01-02-20, 09:21 PM   #4199
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Big time.

I'll be there. Going out for lunch then drinking pre-match.

There were some encouraging signs for us. No trys and a defeat though
Winning gets to be a habit - look at the amount of tight games Lpool have come through this year.....they just know how to do it.

Enjoy it and I hope the day turns out to be a good one

No football next week so maybe Iíll be more focused
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Old 02-02-20, 11:37 AM   #4200
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Fucking hell Hoggy.
That was very odd under no pressure.

Scotland were looking good at that point and the momentum would have been with them for the last quarter.
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