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Old 10-05-18, 10:07 AM   #4921
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I think the thing is, that Spurs are obviously saying getting 4th is better than winning the cup, because they arent winning any cups.

I didn't hear them saying that previous to them not getting in any finals.

It would have some credibility as a statement if they had said it earlier in the season.

Spurs fans must look at where we are this season with some envy. They were in a great position to progress in the CL and blew it.
TBF, Pochettino basically came out before the FA Cup semis and said he doesn't give a shit about it, that he's not there to win the FA cup.
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Old 10-05-18, 10:23 AM   #4922
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Unfortunately, top 4 has become the holy grail. The FA Cup and League Cup are seen by some as a distraction. I’ll be honest, I would take top 4 (and CL qualification) over a domestic trophy.
every time.
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Old 10-05-18, 10:37 AM   #4923
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It was the Milk Cup in my day.
I remember it before then when it was just the League Cup
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Old 10-05-18, 10:54 AM   #4924
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I would. Not just because of money but because qualifying for the CL gives us a genuine chance of winning it.
For me it's not really about either of those things. Don't get me wrong, a CL run is immense, but the main reason is these days to attract decent players you need to be in the CL.

If you get decent players the rest will hopefully follow. Else you get an Arsenal, the odd FA Cup saving a manager who should have retired years ago.

It's extremely critical to development.
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Old 10-05-18, 10:55 AM   #4925
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Whats the point in being Spurs though? Attaract all sorts of players and be in the Champions league. To do what? The same again next season?
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Old 10-05-18, 12:00 PM   #4926
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Whats the point in being Spurs though? Attaract all sorts of players and be in the Champions league. To do what? The same again next season?
Yep. They've basically replaced Arsenal.

Qualify for Champions League. Do shit in Champions League. Qualify for Champions League again. Repeat.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:03 PM   #4927
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Id much rather a season like we are having and finish 6th in the league, than 4th/3rd and doing nothing. Whats the point of mediocrity?

We either win or lose on the 26th. But its been fun watching and being part of it. Wouldn't change that for all the 4th places in the world.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:04 PM   #4928
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Whats the point in being Spurs though? Attaract all sorts of players and be in the Champions league. To do what? The same again next season?
Exactly the question going through Pochetinos head.

I note, he doesnt refer to Spurs as 'we' he refers to them as 'spurs'. I reckon he is offski.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:09 PM   #4929
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It is hard for him. He's done a good job there, but how much further can he take them?

Aside from winning the odd trophy there's little else he can achieve there.

I think if a big club came in for him he'd be off. Same can be said for Kane, Ali, Eriksen etc.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:17 PM   #4930
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It is hard for him. He's done a good job there, but how much further can he take them?

Aside from winning the odd trophy there's little else he can achieve there.

I think if a big club came in for him he'd be off. Same can be said for Kane, Ali, Eriksen etc.
If we can beat Madrid in the CL final, then Zidane hasn't had a great season. I could see Pochettino going to Real.

He clearly has ambition.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:22 PM   #4931
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If we can beat Madrid in the CL final, then Zidane hasn't had a great season. I could see Pochettino going to Real.

He clearly has ambition.
That would be immense. Winning the CL and weakening a rival at the same time.

Hopefully be brings Kane and Eriksen with him.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:27 PM   #4932
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Id much rather a season like we are having and finish 6th in the league, than 4th/3rd and doing nothing. Whats the point of mediocrity?

We either win or lose on the 26th. But its been fun watching and being part of it. Wouldn't change that for all the 4th places in the world.
I definitely understand this but it's a bit myopic IMO. To continually build you need European football (unless you have owners willing to invest and we invest what we earn/sell). One good season is great but without continued squad investment you could easily slip back to mediocrity. Us in 2005 (although the cowboys played the biggest part there) and Leicester.

Thankfully fourth and a CL win aren't mutually exclusive so there isn't anything to argue here.

My point is i'd prefer this season not to be a one off, and we continued to build so we get back to that '05 era of being feared regularly in Europe instead of a flash in the pan season like Monaco were last year and to do that we need more players, ergo, fourth.

Last edited by labourRed; 10-05-18 at 03:19 PM. Reason: aren't FFS
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Old 10-05-18, 12:33 PM   #4933
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Basically, none of us want to be Spurs, or Spurs fans we can surely all agree on that?

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Old 10-05-18, 12:39 PM   #4934
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Yeah fuck that.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:49 PM   #4935
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Whats the point in being Spurs though? Attaract all sorts of players and be in the Champions league. To do what? The same again next season?
We're not Spurs though, we have a better manager and can afford to pay realistic wages / transfer fees.

With the players we can go a title tilt, FA Cup and CL run in the same season.
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Old 10-05-18, 12:58 PM   #4936
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Yep. They've basically replaced Arsenal.
That's all they've ever wanted. Most Spurs fans will die happy now
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Old 10-05-18, 01:39 PM   #4937
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For me it's not really about either of those things. Don't get me wrong, a CL run is immense, but the main reason is these days to attract decent players you need to be in the CL.

If you get decent players the rest will hopefully follow. Else you get an Arsenal, the odd FA Cup saving a manager who should have retired years ago.

It's extremely critical to development.
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I definitely understand this but it's a bit myopic IMO. To continually build you need European football (unless you have owners willing to invest and we invest what we earn/sell). One good season is great but without continued squad investment you could easily slip back to mediocrity. Us in 2005 (although the cowboys played the biggest part there) and Leicester.

Thankfully fourth and a CL win are mutually exclusive so there isn't anything to argue here.

My point is i'd prefer this season not to be a one off, and we continued to build so we get back to that '05 era of being feared regularly in Europe instead of a flash in the pan season like Monaco were last year and to do that we need more players, ergo, fourth.
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Old 10-05-18, 02:59 PM   #4938
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We need to buy a rival's player. Put in a bid for Son Heung Min, he'd do well here I reckon!
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Old 14-05-18, 02:32 PM   #4939
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Saw this, which may well be behind Pochettino laying down the path for his exit strategy.

A billion quid FFS

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Tottenham facing up to reality check as stadium costs escalate
Mauricio Pochettino will still have to sell players in order to buy them next season despite an increased ground capacity

Mauricio Pochettino has expressed the belief on several occasions. When Tottenham Hotspur move into their 62,062-seat stadium next season, the club will enter a new era of financial power. “It would be the time to say: ‘Now, we will win the title,’” the manager said in December. The theory has been that the stadium’s increased revenues will help the club to attract and keep the A-list players.

The view has sat uncomfortably with the cost of construction. It seems a long time ago that £400m was the ballpark figure. Then, it became £750m and £850m, and now, nobody would be surprised if it reached a billion. Tottenham have taken out £400m in bank loans, which are repayable over a five-year period. This month they announced in their financial results for the year ended 30 June 2017 that the “cumulative spend” on the project had increased from £115.3m to £315.1m. The club’s profits were robust. They stood at £41.2m after interest and tax. But whichever way you dress it up, there is a lot of money to find. It is no wonder chairman Daniel Levy “struggles to sleep at night”, according to Pochettino.

The penny – or great mountains of them – appears to have dropped with Pochettino and when he addressed the press, before Monday’s game against Watford at Wembley, there was a shift in his stance.

“The move to the new stadium is not suddenly going to change everything and millions of pounds will rain from the sky,” Pochettino said. “You have to manage and know exactly the expectations. It will be important to review and set the principles again; how it will be with the team once we move.”

Pochettino’s comments felt significant, just like the ones he made after the FA Cup semi defeat against Manchester United. In four post-match interviews he used the same phrase. The club needed more time to achieve success, he said, and it would be “with me or another” manager.

Pochettino was asked for clarification and explained Tottenham’s project was fixed so strongly for the long term it was inevitable another manager would one day take over the responsibility. His contract runs for a further three years. The project is designed for many more.

It remains difficult to escape the impression that Pochettino is approaching a crossroads. He has urged Levy on more than one occasion to move quickly in this summer’s transfer market while he ignored a question about whether he would lead the club into the new stadium and, instead, answered one of his own – the classic politician’s trick. “If I stay here for three more years, the project will not change,” Pochettino said. “We cannot change because the club cannot change. Whether it is me or another, that is the right project to keep pushing.

“We are the victims of our own success because we are ahead in our project. It’s not easy to accept being close [to a trophy] and being disappointed. The easy thing is give up and say we need to change everything. No. We need to keep going. You have to keep dreaming.”

The supporters’ fear is that Pochettino will be prised away. The good news for them is that PSG are likely to replace Unai Emery with Thomas Tuchel while Real Madrid will surely not dispense with Zinedine Zidane if, as expected, he takes them to a third successive Champions League final.

But Pochettino has seen the future at Tottenham with clarity. The new stadium will change little for him. His transfer dealings since his arrival in the summer of 2014 have shown a net spend on permanent fees of £40.25m – a remarkably low figure – and he will continue to have to sell in order to buy; to keep the books balanced.

Meanwhile the Manchester clubs, in particular, will carry on splurging. At what point does that get to Pochettino – a manager whose stated ambition is to win the Premier League title?


Tottenham remain in a curiously hemmed-in position with regard to strengthening the squad. Last summer they sold Kyle Walker to Manchester City for an initial £50m to fund purchases that would make the collective stronger and this time they are expected to do something similar. Toby Alderweireld is for sale while they would listen to offers for Danny Rose and, surprisingly, Mousa Dembélé.

However, the incoming signings would have to fit into Levy’s wage structure, which is capped at a basic £100,000 a week, although not for him. He earned £6m, including bonuses, equating to £115,000 a week, in the year covered by the most recent accounts.


It will be difficult to find too many players who would improve Pochettino’s best XI and be happy to sign for, say, £60,000 to £70,000 a week, which is the threshold for many of his starters.

One example is Wilfried Zaha, who earns more than £120,000 a week at Crystal Palace. A deal for the winger would be complicated on many levels, not least in terms of the impact it would have on existing squad harmony, which Pochettino has fostered expertly.

Will Levy raise the wage ceiling? Yes, although not to market rates. In other words, the club’s stars could get more elsewhere, if they could get out – which is a big if under Levy.

Are Tottenham stronger without Walker or, indeed, Alderweireld, who has been marginalised? One thing can be said for certain and it is that the club’s players have noted with interest how Walker has trebled his salary at City and won the title. Could they do one or both at Tottenham? For Pochettino, the balancing act does not get any easier.
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Old 14-05-18, 02:43 PM   #4940
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Old 14-05-18, 03:03 PM   #4941
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It gives some perspective on why we took the approach we decided upon with regards new stadium vs expand Anfield.

We spent £114M according to Google to leave us with a stadium maybe around 7k less than what Spurs are going to end up with however we're not going to be left hamstrung in terms of what we can do in the transfer market whereas looking at this Spurs are going to be managing the cost of this for a while at least.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:07 PM   #4942
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It gives some perspective on why we took the approach we decided upon with regards new stadium vs expand Anfield.

We spent £114M according to Google to leave us with a stadium maybe around 7k less than what Spurs are going to end up with however we're not going to be left hamstrung in terms of what we can do in the transfer market whereas looking at this Spurs are going to be managing the cost of this for a while at least.
In the expansion/new build debate, I think I voted for a new stadium.

Was thinking about it after the City game and was glad we didn't.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:15 PM   #4943
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It gives some perspective on why we took the approach we decided upon with regards new stadium vs expand Anfield.

We spent £114M according to Google to leave us with a stadium maybe around 7k less than what Spurs are going to end up with however we're not going to be left hamstrung in terms of what we can do in the transfer market whereas looking at this Spurs are going to be managing the cost of this for a while at least.


If those figures are even ballpark then they are going to be pretty limited financially for a number of years. They do have the right Chairman for that process in Levy, but he is not going to be popular.

Ultimately it is just a stadium, and cost has to be a factor. In which case the route we took was definitely correct. Our integration to our new capacity crowd was seemless. Thinking back to the old mainstand and it looks shit. It was a really smart decision, both financially and in engineering terms, the way it swallowed up the old stand is nothing short of genius and will I am sure be coped.

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In the expansion/new build debate, I think I voted for a new stadium.

Was thinking about it after the City game and was glad we didn't.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. A new stadium seems like an amazing option, but on the face of it other than revenue what else does it bring you, particularly if it leaves you saddled wit a massive debt to service. If we can get up to 60k by overhauling the main stand and the anfield road end for a fraction of the cost, then we have definitely made the right decision.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:16 PM   #4944
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Old 14-05-18, 03:32 PM   #4945
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It gives some perspective on why we took the approach we decided upon with regards new stadium vs expand Anfield.

We spent £114M according to Google to leave us with a stadium maybe around 7k less than what Spurs are going to end up with however we're not going to be left hamstrung in terms of what we can do in the transfer market whereas looking at this Spurs are going to be managing the cost of this for a while at least.
Definitely, almost every club whom has invested heavily into a new stadium in the last 10-15 years have been struggling at some capacity because of it. Bayern and Atletico have probably fared the best. Worst case has to be Valencia plummeting a couple hundred million into something which is incomplete and needs to be redone forcing sales of Villa, Mata, Joaquin, Silva, Albiol, Alba etc. So if a new stadium had to cost us some of our best players, or prevent us from buying them, it's definitely not worth it at this moment.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:41 PM   #4946
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Definitely, almost every club whom has invested heavily into a new stadium in the last 10-15 years have been struggling at some capacity because of it. Bayern and Atletico have probably fared the best. Worst case has to be Valencia plummeting a couple hundred million into something which is incomplete and needs to be redone forcing sales of Villa, Mata, Joaquin, Silva, Albiol, Alba etc. So if a new stadium had to cost us some of our best players, or prevent us from buying them, it's definitely not worth it at this moment.
I think that's a bit of a cliche.

The likes of Huddersfield, Cardiff, Southampton, Swansea, Brighton have definitely seen a general improvement over where they were pre-new stadium. City have gone through the roof (quite literally in one end) since they moved into their stadium too.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:49 PM   #4947
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Okay then, for larger European level clubs it's been pretty 50-50. Plenty of examples. Benfica springs to mind first.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:52 PM   #4948
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Okay then, for larger European level clubs it's been pretty 50-50. Plenty of examples. Benfica springs to mind first.
So we've gone from almost every club to 50:50 of only the largest European clubs.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:54 PM   #4949
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Would be interesting to see the various expenditures on new stadiums and capacity increases.

I am astonished that Spurs are heading north of £850m.

Spurs fans tend to be massively deluded, it will be interesting to watch them digest this information over the next few years.
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Old 14-05-18, 03:56 PM   #4950
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Would be interesting to see the various expenditures on new stadiums and capacity increases.

I am astonished that Spurs are heading north of £850m.

Spurs fans tend to be massively deluded, it will be interesting to watch them digest this information over the next few years.
The cost of Chelsea's development is also heading north of £1B and there's still no start date in sight.
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Old 14-05-18, 04:05 PM   #4951
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The cost of Chelsea's development is also heading north of £1B and there's still no start date in sight.
Imagine what costs will end up at if it is STARTING at over £1bn.

Its always the same with trades, double the cost and takes twice as long...
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Old 14-05-18, 04:38 PM   #4952
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In the expansion/new build debate, I think I voted for a new stadium.

Was thinking about it after the City game and was glad we didn't.
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Hindsight is a beautiful thing. A new stadium seems like an amazing option, but on the face of it other than revenue what else does it bring you, particularly if it leaves you saddled wit a massive debt to service. If we can get up to 60k by overhauling the main stand and the anfield road end for a fraction of the cost, then we have definitely made the right decision.

I was the same - was desperate for a new stadium and thought it was vital.

However, having seen first hand, prob more than most people (Ie a normal member of the public) how good the improvements have been and how well it's been implemented I think £ for £ we defo made the right choice....

I base it on being involved in quoting for the fire alarm install so managed to get hold of plans/attend site surveys of the ground throughout the build, also a mate worked on the lighting and cctv so I visited a few times with him, I've had business networking in the boardroom, I've been in 3x of the many different executive boxes and to top it off my season ticket was in the old main stand for about years and then I moved up into the new stand when it first opened.


Anfield, in my opinion, has completely transformed. I know people still moan about the atmosphere at times and it can be fucking dire but I think this is a league wide issue, not just a Liverpool one (also, since we've had a good run in Europe the atmosphere has been much better- funny that )

but the whole area is so much better - the new club shop, the concourse by the kop/clubshop where they have a big stage and live acts on before the game and a big screen showing highlights or whatever - all the street food outlets, the area where the coaches go in, just the site of the main stand, then even the fan park at the anfield road and then going up to the top tier of the main stand, where you can get a beer and burger with no fuss and it feels so much cleaner/spacious and fresh but still bouncing with activity - I never used to bother going for a pint in the old main stand - now, about four or five us take it in turns throughout the season at we go for a pint every half time!

With the hotel complex thing to come and plans for the Annie Road to be modernised we've defo made the right choice

only thing i'd change/add would be some sort of underground tube station to improve match day access from the city centre but appreciate it's probably not feasible
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Old 14-05-18, 04:53 PM   #4953
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Well that IS good news, seems FSG are doing things the smart way. There is no way Spurs can keep their players AND their wage structure, Alli, Kane and Eriksen will be looking at ways out over the next seasons.
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Old 14-05-18, 11:44 PM   #4954
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Old 15-05-18, 12:08 AM   #4955
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Seems as though he is looking to move on.

Though 100 mil ain’t much of a war chest in 2018.
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Old 15-05-18, 01:34 AM   #4956
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Selling Kane would quick-fix a shed load of their financial issues at the drop of a hat. Would introduce others obviously, like goals, but a good scoring department and manager would remedy that reasonably quickly.
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Old 17-05-18, 11:02 AM   #4957
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just a short list of countries that didn’t exist when spurs last won the league.

June 19, 1961 - Kuwait
January 1, 1962 - Samoa
July 1, 1962 - Burundi
July 1, 1962 - Rwanda
July 5, 1962 - Algeria
August 6, 1962 - Jamaica
August 31, 1962 - Trinidad and Tobago
October 9, 1962 - Uganda
December 12, 1963 - Kenya
April 26, 1964 - Tanzania
July 6, 1964 - Malawi
Sept.21, 1964 - Malta
October 24, 1964 - Zambia
February 18, 1965 - Gambia, The
July 26, 1965 - Maldives
August 9, 1965 - Singapore
May 26, 1966 - Guyana
September 30, 1966 - Botswana
October 4, 1966 - Lesotho
November 30, 1966 - Barbados
January 31, 1968 - Nauru
March 12, 1968 - Mauritius
Sept. 6, 1968 - Swaziland
October 12, 1968 - Equatorial
June 4, 1970 - Tonga
October 10, 1970 - Fiji
March 26, 1971 - Bangladesh
August 15, 1971 - Bahrain
Sept. 3, 1971 - Qatar
November 2, 1971 - United Arab Emirates
July 10, 1973 - Bahamas
Sept. 24, 1973 - Guinea-Bissau
February 7, 1974 - Grenada
June 25, 1975 - Mozambique
July 5, 1975 - Cape Verde
July 6, 1975 - Comoros
July 12, 1975 - Sao Tome and Principe
Sept. 16, 1975 - Papua New Guinea
November 11, 1975 - Angola
November 25, 1975 - Suriname
June 29, 1976 - Seychelles
June 27, 1977 - Djibouti
July 7, 1978 - Solomon Islands
October 1, 1978 - Tuvalu
November 3, 1978 - Dominica
February 22, 1979 - Saint Lucia
July 12, 1979 - Kiribati
October 27, 1979 - Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
April 18, 1980 - Zimbabwe
July 30, 1980 - Vanuatu
January 11, 1981 - Antigua and Barbuda
Sept.21, 1981 - Belize
Sept. 19, 1983 - Saint Kitts and Nevis
January 1, 1984 - Brunei
October 21, 1986 - Marshall Islands
November 3, 1986 - Micronesia, Federated States of
March 11, 1990 - Lithuania
March 21, 1990 - Namibia
May 22, 1990 - Yemen
April 9, 1991 - Georgia
June 25, 1991 - Croatia
June 25, 1991 - Slovenia
August 21, 1991 - Kyrgyzstan
August 24, 1991 - Russia
August 25, 1991 - Belarus
August 27, 1991 - Moldova
August 30, 1991 - Azerbaijan
Sept. 1, 1991 - Uzbekistan
Sept. 6, 1991 - Latvia
Sept. 8, 1991 - Macedonia
Sept. 9, 1991 - Tajikistan
Sept. 21, 1991 - Armenia
October 27, 1991 - Turkmenistan
November 24, 1991 - Ukraine
December 16, 1991 - Kazakhstan
March 3, 1992 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
January 1, 1993 - Czech Republic
January 1, 1993 - Slovakia
May 24, 1993 - Eritrea
October 1, 1994 - Palau
May 20, 2002 - East Timor
June 3, 2006 - Montenegro
June 5, 2006 - Serbia
February 17, 2008 - Kosovo
July 9, 2011 - South Sudan
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Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

Think we have the answer..Klopp
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Old 17-05-18, 11:04 AM   #4958
Alex
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Quote:
demands a £100m war chest


War Chest
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*Except Michael, who died.
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Old 17-05-18, 09:33 PM   #4959
Scratch
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Red g, not sure about your list there...where did you get it from?
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Old 17-05-18, 09:41 PM   #4960
red g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
Red g, not sure about your list there...where did you get it from?
A mate of mine sent it, no idea of source!
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Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

Think we have the answer..Klopp
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