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Old 09-09-18, 01:46 PM   #1
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Liverpool Women FC

What's happened with them?

We were champions and full of international stars a couple of seasons ago.

First women's team to go professional and the club seemed to be willing to invest money to build a generation of success in the women's game.

This summer 4 players went to the new Manc team, 2 to City and several others left and we are losing the opening game of this season against Arsenal 4-0 at half time!
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Old 09-09-18, 04:07 PM   #2
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Old 09-09-18, 06:11 PM   #3
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Old 09-09-18, 09:54 PM   #4
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Hopefully doesn't sound too awful but I have no interest in women's sport at all, unless it's at the Olympics. Women's football, cricket, golf etc just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm a fan of LFC, not a recently created women's team with the same name
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Old 09-09-18, 10:53 PM   #5
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Hopefully doesn't sound too awful but I have no interest in women's sport at all, unless it's at the Olympics. Women's football, cricket, golf etc just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm a fan of LFC, not a recently created women's team with the same name
Thanks for letting us know. Close the thread. I kinda know what you mean. I don't follow it either. Track cycling is the one sport I equally enjoy the men's and women's versions.
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Old 09-09-18, 11:15 PM   #6
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Hopefully doesn't sound too awful but I have no interest in women's sport at all, unless it's at the Olympics. Women's football, cricket, golf etc just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm a fan of LFC, not a recently created women's team with the same name
Pardon me if I think this sounds a tad misogynistic.
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Old 10-09-18, 05:05 AM   #7
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Pardon me if I think this sounds a tad misogynistic.
Why do you label it as misogynistic? I didn't hear Norbs say it's because they're inferior at sport or that they're weak, just doesn't have the interest.

I guess because I'm not interested in the U-18s or U-23s that makes me ageist?
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Old 10-09-18, 10:14 AM   #8
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Thanks for letting us know. Close the thread. I kinda know what you mean. I don't follow it either. Track cycling is the one sport I equally enjoy the men's and women's versions.


I knew I'd get some abuse for saying it, it's just that the sports are at such different levels in terms of development and appeal.

Did you know that women's football was more popular than men's football up until the war with huge attendances at games. Then it was banned, not sure why
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Old 10-09-18, 10:16 AM   #9
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Why do you label it as misogynistic? I didn't hear Norbs say it's because they're inferior at sport or that they're weak, just doesn't have the interest.

I guess because I'm not interested in the U-18s or U-23s that makes me ageist?
I'm not interested in youth levels really either
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Old 10-09-18, 10:22 AM   #10
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Hopefully doesn't sound too awful but I have no interest in women's sport at all, unless it's at the Olympics. Women's football, cricket, golf etc just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm a fan of LFC, not a recently created women's team with the same name
have to agree. Don't mean anything by it, just not interested.
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Old 10-09-18, 10:39 AM   #11
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Hopefully doesn't sound too awful but I have no interest in women's sport at all, unless it's at the Olympics. Women's football, cricket, golf etc just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm a fan of LFC, not a recently created women's team with the same name
Well said Norbs

I hate the way Sky Sports News tag on a few minutes at the end of the hour devoted to women's sport. Comes across as really patronising.
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Old 10-09-18, 11:28 AM   #12
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It's not as bad as rugby getting mentioned on BBC Breakfast though. I mean, seriously who gives a fuck
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Old 10-09-18, 11:32 AM   #13
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And without looking it up, I defy anyone to name 3 current players for LFC Women

And and, if the best footballer in the world was a woman and she wanted to play for LFC then I'd be all open arms but not in the Baitman sort of way.
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Old 10-09-18, 12:51 PM   #14
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And without looking it up, I defy anyone to name 3 current players for LFC Women

And and, if the best footballer in the world was a woman and she wanted to play for LFC then I'd be all open arms but not in the Baitman sort of way.
I can name 2

Markovic

Lallana

and Loris on loan.
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Old 10-09-18, 04:02 PM   #15
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Not sure any of them would make the first 11 to be fair
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Old 10-09-18, 05:40 PM   #16
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Liverpool Women's have been around for a while, it's not new. And they are as much a part of the club as any other category, not just a team with Liverpool in the name.

The quality gap in the women's game and men's game is due to money, sexism and lack of opportunity, not ability.

It's only been in the last few years that the FA and clubs have started taking the women's game seriously so it will take many more years for girls to come through academies having received the same kind of support as men so that we can truly judge what the differences are in quality and style between the men's and women's games.

If you look at men's and women's tennis today some of the biggest stars are women and whilst the style is different due to physicality both men's and women's tennis is of the highest quality to watch.

It will take many years for the women's game to overcome the kind of dismissive ridicule some of you are displaying just like it has taken decades to eradicate racism from the men's game, something that is still being fought today.

I'm really surprised by the responses in this thread and the lack of respect towards professionals representing our club purely on the basis that they are women.

I didn't expect that on EST.
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Old 10-09-18, 05:43 PM   #17
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I can name 2

Markovic

Lallana

and Loris on loan.

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Old 10-09-18, 05:46 PM   #18
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Liverpool Women's have been around for a while, it's not new. And they are as much a part of the club as any other category, not just a team with Liverpool in the name.

The quality gap in the women's game and men's game is due to money, sexism and lack of opportunity, not ability.

It's only been in the last few years that the FA and clubs have started taking the women's game seriously so it will take many more years for girls to come through academies having received the same kind of support as men so that we can truly judge what the differences are in quality and style between the men's and women's games.

If you look at men's and women's tennis today some of the biggest stars are women and whilst the style is different due to physicality both men's and women's tennis is of the highest quality to watch.

It will take many years for the women's game to overcome the kind of dismissive ridicule some of you are displaying just like it has taken decades to eradicate racism from the men's game, something that is still being fought today.

I'm really surprised by the responses in this thread and the lack of respect towards professionals representing our club purely on the basis that they are women.

I didn't expect that on EST.
Totally agree with most of your post. However, we shouldn't confuse disinterest with disrespect.

As for the OP. I had no idea we'd lost so many players to other top teams. Sort of suggests something is going wrong!
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Old 10-09-18, 05:57 PM   #19
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Liverpool Women's have been around for a while, it's not new. And they are as much a part of the club as any other category, not just a team with Liverpool in the name.

The quality gap in the women's game and men's game is due to money, sexism and lack of opportunity, not ability.

It's only been in the last few years that the FA and clubs have started taking the women's game seriously so it will take many more years for girls to come through academies having received the same kind of support as men so that we can truly judge what the differences are in quality and style between the men's and women's games.

If you look at men's and women's tennis today some of the biggest stars are women and whilst the style is different due to physicality both men's and women's tennis is of the highest quality to watch.

It will take many years for the women's game to overcome the kind of dismissive ridicule some of you are displaying just like it has taken decades to eradicate racism from the men's game, something that is still being fought today.

I'm really surprised by the responses in this thread and the lack of respect towards professionals representing our club purely on the basis that they are women.

I didn't expect that on EST.
They pretty much are to me to be honest. I don't follow womens football so they're not a team that I support. If I ended up watching a game I'd no doubt support them over the opposition, but other than not I don't feel concern about whether they're winning or losing. I don't need support for more than one football team in my life.
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Old 10-09-18, 06:47 PM   #20
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Totally agree with most of your post. However, we shouldn't confuse disinterest with disrespect.



As for the OP. I had no idea we'd lost so many players to other top teams. Sort of suggests something is going wrong!


I have no problem with disinterest, if you aren't interested in the woman's team and/or the academy teams no problem.

But I think some of the posts have been disrespectful.
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Old 10-09-18, 06:53 PM   #21
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It was more than I thought, 12 players left in the summer :-

Liverpool
Neil Redfearn, Liverpool’s new manager, has arguably the best CV in the domestic women’s game. The first former coach of a Football League club to work in the WSL, he managed Leeds and Rotherham in the Championship and played Premier League football for Barnsley, Charlton and Bradford. Last season the 53‑year‑old, who has appointed the former England goalkeeper Chris Kirkland to his coaching staff, led Doncaster Belles to the second tier title but he has inherited a club in turmoil. Unhappiness under Scott Rogers prompted a summer exodus of 12 of the squad who finished sixth, with several defecting to Casey Stoney’s Manchester United. Redfearn has made 10 signings, including the vastly experienced defender and former Doncaster captain Leandra Little.

Key player Jess Clarke

(https://www.theguardian.com/football...-by-club-guide)
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Old 11-09-18, 05:26 PM   #22
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You know most of the womens national teams for example prepare themselves by playing high school male teams? The other year the american team were beaten 5-2 by a high school 15 year old team. Australia got hamered 7-0 by a 15 year old high school team also. Just some of the things out there. I actually watch some womens soccer when I catch it on tv. But lets not pretend they're on the same level as a mens team. You know, cause of obvious reasons.
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Old 11-09-18, 05:39 PM   #23
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In fairness, I don't think anyone has been bold enough to suggest that they are. The quality of football is not entertaining to watch imo.
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Old 11-09-18, 05:42 PM   #24
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You know most of the womens national teams for example prepare themselves by playing high school male teams? The other year the american team were beaten 5-2 by a high school 15 year old team. Australia got hamered 7-0 by a 15 year old high school team also. Just some of the things out there. I actually watch some womens soccer when I catch it on tv. But lets not pretend they're on the same level as a mens team. You know, cause of obvious reasons.
Is anyone pretending or suggesting otherwise?
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Old 11-09-18, 05:55 PM   #25
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The quality gap in the women's game and men's game is due to money, sexism and lack of opportunity, not ability.

How do you quantify that?

Pretty sure its because women are not as strong or fast or agile as men... or is saying that sexist? Its simply not as entertaining.

Obviously more money would help but no investment will make up the quality gap, otherwise we would not need male/female split in tennis or gymnastics
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Old 11-09-18, 06:06 PM   #26
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If technical skill was on parity, which sounds plausible, then the other factors may not prevent the sport from being watchable, and with investment in training then it might get there. If or when it does it might be worth a watch.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:15 PM   #27
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If technical skill was on parity, which sounds plausible, then the other factors may not prevent the sport from being watchable, and with investment in training then it might get there. If or when it does it might be worth a watch.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:16 PM   #28
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Is anyone pretending or suggesting otherwise?
topscorer made some points and some agreed with them. To think that womens soccer is only held back because of little financing and sexism is a huge pass on their skill level.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:33 PM   #29
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topscorer made some points and some agreed with them. To think that womens soccer is only held back because of little financing and sexism is a huge pass on their skill level.
Do you not think the lack of funding, coverage and promotion to females with consequently lower levels of participation in this 'male' sport is the reason the skill gap is quite so huge? Contrast with tennis which enjoys a more equal footing and so much smaller gap, to the point where top female athletes are acknowledged as outstanding in their own right in spite of any gap.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:33 PM   #30
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topscorer made some points and some agreed with them. To think that womens soccer is only held back because of little financing and sexism is a huge pass on their skill level.
Surely that just down to lack of coaching?

Men aren’t genetically pre-disposed to be more skilful at football. Stronger and faster arguably, though not definitely in all cases, but more skilful?

The entire footballing infrastructure has been set up for men for more than 100 years, to expect the women’s game to have the same skill set in a short space of time is unrealistic.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:46 PM   #31
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topscorer made some points and some agreed with them. To think that womens soccer is only held back because of little financing and sexism is a huge pass on their skill level.
I think subsequent posters have answered this for me tbh.
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Old 11-09-18, 06:55 PM   #32
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Do you not think the lack of funding, coverage and promotion to females with consequently lower levels of participation in this 'male' sport is the reason the skill gap is quite so huge? Contrast with tennis which enjoys a more equal footing and so much smaller gap, to the point where top female athletes are acknowledged as outstanding in their own right in spite of any gap.
Which is indeed the point. How the women compare to men is pretty much irrelevant, I doubt Serena would get very far on the mens tour (and that's being polite) but it doesn't matter, the women's game is entertaining and of high quality in its own right.

But I'm not going to watch bad football or follow a team that plays bad football. I'm not Scottish
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Old 11-09-18, 07:32 PM   #33
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Old 11-09-18, 07:34 PM   #34
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Old 11-09-18, 09:47 PM   #35
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Some people seem to get it and some still don't.

The skill gap is obviously because of lack of investment and opportunity. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

I don't think I or anyone has ever suggested that a woman's team would be able to match a man's football team physically.

But as I mentioned and others have too women's tennis is a good example of how watching the womens version of a sport can be equally entertaining to watching as the mens version and in some ways more so. Different skills and tactics can develop based on physicality and some of those skills and tactics might even crossover to the men's game at some point.

Using an example of women's international teams losing to U15s is just another cheap shot at women and insulting.

As for Kenneths comment that the quality is too low to be entertaining or of interest to him that's fine. That's an opinion and a fact, I can respect and accept but not because it's women.

League 2 is very low quality compared to Premier League but a lot of people enjoy watching it. Amateur teams are often very low quality but some teams get a large following of support.

So for anyone that is only interested in watching the highest quality of football or any sport then fine. Just watch that.

I don't go out of the way to watch womens football but I'll watch and support Liverpool Women's if I see they are on TV because they are us.

Just like I watch U23s and U18s if I see they are on.

And I'm pleased that thy woman's game is finally getting some funding to develop, but let's be clear it's still miniscule compared to the investment put into premier league academies that U15s train at.

I have a friend in Mexico whose daughter is an incredible football player. I watched her a few years ago when she was 9 and she had amazing skill. I think she was as good as my son was at that age.

Sadly all the other girls she played with and against were pretty awful and their are very few opportunities for her to continue to develop in Mexico.

My friend struggled to find somewhere for her to develop. So of course she will never have the opportunity to become as good as my 17 year old son is now.

It will take a generation before woman's football can get even close to the potential standard it can reach.

Unfortunately for the money to continue to be invested to create the opportunities for talented girls like my friends daughter the womens game will need a lot more support from the public than I am seeing displayed here.

Not necessarily going to watch if you don't want to do that but at least treating them with the same respect as the U23s and U18s and making sure that the club knows that we want and expect them to continue investing in the womens game.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:59 PM   #36
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Do you not think the lack of funding, coverage and promotion to females with consequently lower levels of participation in this 'male' sport is the reason the skill gap is quite so huge? Contrast with tennis which enjoys a more equal footing and so much smaller gap, to the point where top female athletes are acknowledged as outstanding in their own right in spite of any gap.
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Surely that just down to lack of coaching?

Men aren’t genetically pre-disposed to be more skilful at football. Stronger and faster arguably, though not definitely in all cases, but more skilful?

The entire footballing infrastructure has been set up for men for more than 100 years, to expect the women’s game to have the same skill set in a short space of time is unrealistic.

I mean theres a few ways of looking at it. Probably my use of the words 'skill level' was wrongly chosen. Take the tennis example, its a small court where players run forwards and sideways a few steps and hit the ball. Aside from power and reflexes or whatever, womens and mens tennis are fairly similar when watched.

Now you take womens football and its a completely different thing. The players are far slower compared to the mens game. The speed is a big attraction to the sport. Slow games are very boring at times. Like I said I do enjoy watching some womens games, but the speed and flow of the game is as if they were wading through mud. My friends would ask me how can I watch the womens games they're so boring and slow. And I'm thinking nah they arent THAT slow, look how fast they're running. But then you watch how long it takes for a player just to run half the field and then compare it to the mens. Its very obvious. This is why the sport will never be hugely mainstream. Unless its the national games where we all put on our patriotic hats and wave stuff around while watching.

Money into coaching is a different argument altogether. That wont change the speed of the game. You'd probably have to counter that with skill, by making all the players do flicks and tricks ronaldo messi style everywhere for entertainment. Or something. But no. Even with the huge push women are getting in every field over the past decade, no amount of backing with change the slower part of the game. Thats my view though.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:08 PM   #37
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I mean theres a few ways of looking at it. Probably my use of the words 'skill level' was wrongly chosen. Take the tennis example, its a small court where players run forwards and sideways a few steps and hit the ball. Aside from power and reflexes or whatever, womens and mens tennis are fairly similar when watched.



Now you take womens football and its a completely different thing. The players are far slower compared to the mens game. The speed is a big attraction to the sport. Slow games are very boring at times. Like I said I do enjoy watching some womens games, but the speed and flow of the game is as if they were wading through mud. My friends would ask me how can I watch the womens games they're so boring and slow. And I'm thinking nah they arent THAT slow, look how fast they're running. But then you watch how long it takes for a player just to run half the field and then compare it to the mens. Its very obvious. This is why the sport will never be hugely mainstream. Unless its the national games where we all put on our patriotic hats and wave stuff around while watching.


Sorry but you are talking complete bullshit.

So you like fast football, fair enough so do I.

But again you are dismissing women by saying they are slow and all men are fast and all men's football is fast. Erm like Italian football for example.

Their are many ways to play football, fast slow long short defensive attacking.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:17 PM   #38
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I mean theres a few ways of looking at it. Probably my use of the words 'skill level' was wrongly chosen. Take the tennis example, its a small court where players run forwards and sideways a few steps and hit the ball. Aside from power and reflexes or whatever, womens and mens tennis are fairly similar when watched.

Now you take womens football and its a completely different thing. The players are far slower compared to the mens game. The speed is a big attraction to the sport. Slow games are very boring at times. Like I said I do enjoy watching some womens games, but the speed and flow of the game is as if they were wading through mud. My friends would ask me how can I watch the womens games they're so boring and slow. And I'm thinking nah they arent THAT slow, look how fast they're running. But then you watch how long it takes for a player just to run half the field and then compare it to the mens. Its very obvious. This is why the sport will never be hugely mainstream. Unless its the national games where we all put on our patriotic hats and wave stuff around while watching.

Money into coaching is a different argument altogether. That wont change the speed of the game. You'd probably have to counter that with skill, by making all the players do flicks and tricks ronaldo messi style everywhere for entertainment. Or something. But no. Even with the huge push women are getting in every field over the past decade, no amount of backing with change the slower part of the game. Thats my view though.
The Men's 100m record is 9.58, and that's Usain Bolt, who was plenty ahead of everyone else. Before Bolt the record was held by Asafa Powell, at 9.74. Ignoring Flo-Jo the best women are running around 10.7. Even the best teenage girls are running at not much over 11.0 - I used to be pretty fast when I was 16 and I'd struggle to beat them. Footballers never run 100m in a sprint, so although the gap is 1 whole second, over 30-40 metres it wouldn't be that much.

Now I'm not saying that female footballers have the sprinting quality of professional female sprinters - they don't but neither do the men have the sprinting quality of a professional male sprinter. However, in the men's case they are not far behind, especially over short distances, and that's because of the high quality of training they've had, and their lifestyle etc.

The truth is that female sprinters are not that much slower than male sprinters, so if the women's football game appears slower that's because the quality of training is different, because they could certainly be a lot faster.

In short, more investment in the women's game will make it faster if it improves the quality of training and opportunities to train, just like it has the female sprinting profession.

EDIT: Watch a men's game from the 1980s or even the 1960s - it looks like it's being played in slow motion.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topscorer View Post
Sorry but you are talking complete bullshit.

So you like fast football, fair enough so do I.

But again you are dismissing women by saying they are slow and all men are fast and all men's football is fast. Erm like Italian football for example.

Their are many ways to play football, fast slow long short defensive attacking.
I'm not dismissing anything. Like I mentioned before I do watch some of their games, and they're ones from the national league here, so no liverpool team that I would normally feel obligated to support. Just a bunch of players I dont even know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatterdemalion View Post
The Men's 100m record is 9.58, and that's Usain Bolt, who was plenty ahead of everyone else. Before Bolt the record was held by Asafa Powell, at 9.74. Ignoring Flo-Jo the best women are running around 10.7. Even the best teenage girls are running at not much over 11.0 - I used to be pretty fast when I was 16 and I'd struggle to beat them. Footballers never run 100m in a sprint, so although the gap is 1 whole second, over 30-40 metres it wouldn't be that much.

Now I'm not saying that female footballers have the sprinting quality of professional female sprinters - they don't but neither do the men have the sprinting quality of a professional male sprinter. However, in the men's case they are not far behind, especially over short distances, and that's because of the high quality of training they've had, and their lifestyle etc.

The truth is that female sprinters are not that much slower than male sprinters, so if the women's football game appears slower that's because the quality of training is different, because they could certainly be a lot faster.

In short, more investment in the women's game will make it faster if it improves the quality of training and opportunities to train, just like it has the female sprinting profession.

EDIT: Watch a men's game from the 1980s or even the 1960s - it looks like it's being played in slow motion.


I know what you're both saying and I'm sure a little better coaching would improve things. There are different styles of playing the game yes. Some regions even play it differently so speed may not be the be all end all. That was just a specific example of one reason. I'd love to give more input into this but my thoughts are a little scattered as its 7am and I havent slept yet. So I'm going to do that thing now.

Last edited by vlahka; 11-09-18 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 12-09-18, 06:50 AM   #40
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