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Old 19-10-20, 12:05 PM   #81
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Nothing major does jimbo know joel????
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Old 19-10-20, 12:13 PM   #82
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Nothing major does jimbo know joel????
Joyce and Bascombe have said the same thing. The info is coming from the club.
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Old 19-10-20, 12:20 PM   #83
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Joyce and Bascombe have said the same thing. The info is coming from the club.
I was more pointing out that nothing major with matip usually means a few weeks out
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Old 19-10-20, 12:22 PM   #84
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I was more pointing out that nothing major with matip usually means a few weeks out
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Old 19-10-20, 02:22 PM   #85
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100% keep matip for the league. No point risking him for champions league.
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Old 19-10-20, 04:50 PM   #86
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Am still bullish about our chances but in terms of squad impact this is the worst possible outcome. I just listened to a pod where the injury was discussed by physios and sports scientists and they said it looked as ‘standard’ as you get from an ACL injury. He should recover fine.

VVD clocks up the most minutes per season of any player in World Football - circa 5000 whereas Gomez and Matip average about 2200 each.......already we have a gap so Fab will need to step in.

I genuinely wonder if we go for an experienced stop gap CB in Jan, buy top quality, make do or play Billy K/ Rhys Williams......
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Old 19-10-20, 05:23 PM   #87
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Am still bullish about our chances but in terms of squad impact this is the worst possible outcome. I just listened to a pod where the injury was discussed by physios and sports scientists and they said it looked as Ďstandardí as you get from an ACL injury. He should recover fine.

VVD clocks up the most minutes per season of any player in World Football - circa 5000 whereas Gomez and Matip average about 2200 each.......already we have a gap so Fab will need to step in.

I genuinely wonder if we go for an experienced stop gap CB in Jan, buy top quality, make do or play Billy K/ Rhys Williams......
imo it has forced our hand. Honestly I think we should go for a main stay and not just a stop gap. Matip will not stay fit, Gomez is injury prone and makes too many mistakes. Maybe now is the time to look for a permanent partner for VVD. Having to sacrifice Fabinho from our CM is a bit ridiculous to be honest.
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Old 19-10-20, 05:26 PM   #88
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imo it has forced our hand. Honestly I think we should go for a main stay and not just a stop gap. Matip will not stay fit, Gomez is injury prone and makes too many mistakes. Maybe now is the time to look for a permanent partner for VVD. Having to sacrifice Fabinho from our CM is a bit ridiculous to be honest.
You have Upamecano who has a release clause next summer of £36million. Us and Man Utd have been linked with that. I can't see us spending big in January, especially with no fans back yet, and potentially a deal like that in the summer. Unless there's a decent name we could get on loan? I can't think of any. The only freebie we could get is Garay (ex Valencia), but he's returning from a cruciate injury himself.
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Old 19-10-20, 05:33 PM   #89
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You have Upamecano who has a release clause next summer of £36million. Us and Man Utd have been linked with that. I can't see us spending big in January, especially with no fans back yet, and potentially a deal like that in the summer. Unless there's a decent name we could get on loan? I can't think of any. The only freebie we could get is Garay (ex Valencia), but he's returning from a cruciate injury himself.
I would actually go for Ibrahima Konate. I know he missed most of last season but he's a physically imposing defender and he is excellent in the air. The only thing Upamecano has on him is his long passing imo. Konate can also play deep or in a high line.

By the way I knew Gomez was poor in the air but 56% success is really bad. I don't think he won one duel against Calvert-Lewin. It really is a part of his game he needs to improve (he's 6 ft 2) as well as well as his reading of the game which will hopefully come as he gains more experience.
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Old 19-10-20, 05:49 PM   #90
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Am still bullish about our chances but in terms of squad impact this is the worst possible outcome. I just listened to a pod where the injury was discussed by physios and sports scientists and they said it looked as Ďstandardí as you get from an ACL injury. He should recover fine.

VVD clocks up the most minutes per season of any player in World Football - circa 5000 whereas Gomez and Matip average about 2200 each.......already we have a gap so Fab will need to step in.

I genuinely wonder if we go for an experienced stop gap CB in Jan, buy top quality, make do or play Billy K/ Rhys Williams......
So Gomez and Matip each average 24 games a season, in all competitions.

We have 33 PL games remaining and 6 in the CL, minimum. 78 combined CB starts.

78 minus 48 would still leave 30 games for Fabinho to cover at CB, and obviously he can only cover 1 of them at a time!

Thatís also ignoring that Gomez has already played 6 times and Matip 2.

I hope the youngsters are up to it, otherwise we desperately need someone else in January. Or for Matip and Gomez to suddenly be fit and available over 50% more between them.

I just canít see us doing major business in January with the return of fans not being anywhere in sight.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:16 PM   #91
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So Gomez and Matip each average 24 games a season, in all competitions.

We have 33 PL games remaining and 6 in the CL, minimum. 78 combined CB starts.

78 minus 48 would still leave 30 games for Fabinho to cover at CB, and obviously he can only cover 1 of them at a time!

That’s also ignoring that Gomez has already played 6 times and Matip 2.

I hope the youngsters are up to it, otherwise we desperately need someone else in January. Or for Matip and Gomez to suddenly be fit and available over 50% more between them.

I just can’t see us doing major business in January with the return of fans not being anywhere in sight.
Gomez and Matip is career average - we have to remember that Gomez had an ACL and broken leg for us so 2 big impact injuries that took a lot of recovery time. His availability has been pretty good the last two seasons - the worry with him is we are expecting him to play more than before. Matip is always muscle injuries so his ability to be relied on is a problem - no way he plays twice a week and that is the cycle we are in now
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Old 19-10-20, 06:22 PM   #92
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One thing we have is an amazing togetherness as a squad, hopefully what’s happened to Virgil this weekend gone will spur the rest of them on to push the rest of this season in the league and Europe.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:27 PM   #93
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I'd nearly make fabinho my first choice defender in absense of Virgil and let the other two rotate to partner him.

I'd also push a big contract in front of Gini now too. He is too important now to have running down his contract.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:35 PM   #94
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I'd nearly make fabinho my first choice defender in absense of Virgil and let the other two rotate to partner him.

I'd also push a big contract in front of Gini now too. He is too important now to have running down his contract.
No need to give Gini a contract. He's clearly not first choice now. OK he'll play plenty but first choice was the 3 that started at Everton. Got Jones knocking on the door.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:40 PM   #95
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So Gomez and Matip each average 24 games a season, in all competitions.

We have 33 PL games remaining and 6 in the CL, minimum. 78 combined CB starts.

78 minus 48 would still leave 30 games for Fabinho to cover at CB, and obviously he can only cover 1 of them at a time!

Thatís also ignoring that Gomez has already played 6 times and Matip 2.

I hope the youngsters are up to it, otherwise we desperately need someone else in January. Or for Matip and Gomez to suddenly be fit and available over 50% more between them.

I just canít see us doing major business in January with the return of fans not being anywhere in sight.
That is somewhat skewed, because VVD played more or less every game the others could only play one at a time. So there is a chance that when one was on the pitch the other was on the bench (when they weren't injured) the number of games that they were both available for is the more accurate measure.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:42 PM   #96
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You have Upamecano who has a release clause next summer of £36million. Us and Man Utd have been linked with that. I can't see us spending big in January, especially with no fans back yet, and potentially a deal like that in the summer. Unless there's a decent name we could get on loan? I can't think of any. The only freebie we could get is Garay (ex Valencia), but he's returning from a cruciate injury himself.
can't see it myself, if anything Gini, Wilson and Shaq may go in that window.
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Old 19-10-20, 06:48 PM   #97
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No need to give Gini a contract. He's clearly not first choice now. OK he'll play plenty but first choice was the 3 that started at Everton. Got Jones knocking on the door.
Need him focused on the team this season.......as opposed to thinking about his next move
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Old 19-10-20, 06:59 PM   #98
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Gomez and Matip is career average - we have to remember that Gomez had an ACL and broken leg for us so 2 big impact injuries that took a lot of recovery time. His availability has been pretty good the last two seasons - the worry with him is we are expecting him to play more than before. Matip is always muscle injuries so his ability to be relied on is a problem - no way he plays twice a week and that is the cycle we are in now
Itís a been bit more than that with Gomez. Last season his availability was good, but he missed much of 18/19 with his second ankle surgery. In each of the previous 3 seasons there was his first ankle surgery, Achilles tendon issues and the big cruciate ligament injury.

I take your point, heís a different case to Matip. But heís still only really had 1 season where heís really managed the availability and playing time weíll need from him this season. The encouraging thing is that it was last season.
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Old 19-10-20, 07:10 PM   #99
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That is somewhat skewed, because VVD played more or less every game the others could only play one at a time. So there is a chance that when one was on the pitch the other was on the bench (when they weren't injured) the number of games that they were both available for is the more accurate measure.
Yeah I know itís not 100%, itís just an indicator. But there has been significant portions over the last few seasons where only one of the 2 has been available. Matip missed most of last season. Gomez missed half of the one before that. Thereís been other shorter overlaps in the previous seasons too.
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Old 19-10-20, 07:12 PM   #100
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No need to give Gini a contract. He's clearly not first choice now. OK he'll play plenty but first choice was the 3 that started at Everton. Got Jones knocking on the door.
He's played full matches every game bar at the weekend, presumably because he was the only player in our team to play 3 times over the international break, including full games on Sunday and Wednesday.

He'll be back in the first 11 for Ajax.
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Old 19-10-20, 08:28 PM   #101
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No need to give Gini a contract. He's clearly not first choice now. OK he'll play plenty but first choice was the 3 that started at Everton. Got Jones knocking on the door.

We donít only give contracts to first choice players. Also itís not about whoís first choice- heís more than capable of fighting for his place, and looks like he has plenty left to offer over the next few years.
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Old 25-10-20, 10:25 PM   #102
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We are one dodgy offside decision in the derby from being three points clear at the top with our indifferent start.

Despite that, level at the top after 6 games.
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Old 25-10-20, 10:36 PM   #103
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We'll win it be maybe only 5 points this year as opposed to 25 which is fine by me. That's the VVD difference.

Still Champions at the end of the season unless we have some more really bad luck.
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Old 25-10-20, 10:39 PM   #104
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Only one of 'the big 6' in the top 8, Chelsea and Arsenal in 9th and 10th and we've beaten them both already. Had an abomination of a result and robbed of 2 points by VAR. Still very much ours to lose despite VVD injury.
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Old 25-10-20, 10:54 PM   #105
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Old 25-10-20, 11:00 PM   #106
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thank fuck Leicester have Europa; we will win the title come ..... erm May??
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Old 26-10-20, 01:56 AM   #107
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Interesting but these are unusual times. Current games sometimes resemble pre-season friendlies. Donít think weíll see crowds this season, so if we can build and maintain our intensity (even if itís 80% compared to the last two seasons) we have a great chance of winning the PL.
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Old 26-10-20, 02:43 AM   #108
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We're actually in a very good place (VVD notwithstanding).

We have one of the best goalkeepers in world football back between the sticks.

We have three of the best defenders in world football fit and playing well.

We have one of the best midfielders in world football recently joined.

We have two of the best attackers in world football in the top scorers charts.

We have the best manager in world football in charge.

The only contenders as far as goal scoring depth is concerned are Aston Villa, Everton and Spurs (all of which have bought very well in the window).

Everyone else has a main scorer led by a host of one goal wonders. Even Man City's top scorer has 2!

I say bring it the fuck on!
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Old 26-10-20, 04:22 AM   #109
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VVD is a huge loss- feel like any team in football history would miss him.... but I think the 3 of Gomez, Matip and Fabinho are good enough to win the PL- if they can stay fit! The main thing Iím worried about since vvd injury is that now our only 2 recognized center backs are the 2 very injury prone ones...

I think Allison was a bigger loss tbh- I really hope he can stay mostly injury free for the rest of the season.. If he was not injured, I reckon weíd be sitting on 18 points now...
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Old 26-10-20, 04:29 AM   #110
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We're actually in a very good place (VVD notwithstanding).

We have one of the best goalkeepers in world football back between the sticks.

We have three of the best defenders in world football fit and playing well.

We have one of the best midfielders in world football recently joined.

We have two of the best attackers in world football in the top scorers charts.

We have the best manager in world football in charge.

The only contenders as far as goal scoring depth is concerned are Aston Villa, Everton and Spurs (all of which have bought very well in the window).

Everyone else has a main scorer led by a host of one goal wonders. Even Man City's top scorer has 2!

I say bring it the fuck on!

Here here!!

Iím optimistic about the season- I reckon Thiago is gonna be the best player in the league.. we walked the league last season, and then this guy comes in, and he looks another level.. heís played 1.5 games for us and got 2 MOTM awards! On his debut he set a PL record ffs! Just wait til heís fully settled in the team! Canít wait til the BlueMoon brigadeís heads explode once the media start saying that KDB is now the second best midfielder in the league, haha
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Old 11-11-20, 12:45 PM   #111
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Maybe this thread could be changed to Title Defence?

From the Athletic.

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Liverpool have weathered worst of the storm with five wins and two draws


By James Pearce Nov 8, 2020 66

Jurgen Klopp came out swinging.

The Liverpool manager hit out at the Premier League and the television companies for the scheduling which he believes is placing unfair demands on players who are dropping like flies in a season unlike any other.

Forming an unlikely alliance with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, he branded the 12.30pm Saturday slot after playing in Europe on a Wednesday as “a killer”. Klopp then accused Premier League CEO Richard Masters of “a lack of leadership” and said he had “sold it completely wrong” when he failed to convince all top-flight clubs of the merits of allowing five substitutes in games this season.

“It’s not an advantage, it’s a necessity, 100 per cent. In all other countries, it happens. It’s really incredible. We have to talk again,” he insisted.

This wasn’t a case of a manager looking for excuses or diversionary tactics to try to take the spotlight away from his own team’s shortcomings. It was simply Klopp banging the drum for player welfare — something to which he has long since felt English football only pays lip service.

His mood hadn’t been helped by the sight of Trent Alexander-Arnold limping off midway through the second half at the Etihad with a calf problem. The right-back will play no part in the November internationals as Liverpool wait to learn the extent of the damage.

However, when the conversation turned to those still standing in the away dressing room, Klopp’s demeanour was very different. A smile spread across his face and there was pride in abundance.

Yes, Liverpool had lost their way after an exhilarating opening half-hour against Manchester City when they took the lead through Mohamed Salah’s penalty and really should have had more to show for their efforts.

Yes, players had been drawn out of position in the build-up to Gabriel Jesus’s equaliser and they were fortunate that Kevin De Bruyne had dragged a spot-kick wide after Joe Gomez had been penalised for handball.

Yes, fatigue had certainly contributed to an error-strewn second-half display which left City looking the more likely victors.

But Liverpool had emerged from what Klopp described as “the most difficult game in the world of football” with a share of the spoils. This was a much better point for the champions than it was for the team most likely to wrestle the crown from them. Liverpool remain five points clear of Pep Guardiola’s side, who have a game in hand.

It’s hardly insurmountable but it’s a position of strength, especially given the obstacles thrown in their path of late.

Liverpool went into the last international break shell-shocked on the back of a humiliating 7-2 thrashing at the hands of Aston Villa. This time around the dust settles with positivity in abundance. Seven games over the space of three weeks have yielded five wins and two draws. Klopp’s men find themselves just a point off the Premier League summit and in complete control of their Champions League group.

Liverpool really should have been at their most vulnerable given the list of absentees.

The torn ACL suffered by Virgil van Dijk following Jordan Pickford’s challenge in the derby at Goodison Park rocked everyone connected with the club. Thiago Alcantara, arguably the signing of the summer, hasn’t played since that game either after a challenge by Richarlison. Fabinho was supposed to fill the Van Dijk void but then he pulled up with a hamstring injury. Klopp’s midfield options have also been depleted the absence of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Naby Keita.

But every step of the way, players have emerged from the fringes to help Liverpool’s season regain momentum. Diogo Jota, Rhys Williams, Nat Phillips and Xherdan Shaqiri have taken centre stage. At the Etihad, it was Joel Matip returning from injury to shine at the heart of Klopp’s backline. City were restricted to just two shots on target in the space of 90 minutes.

“Usually when we play City we sit here and I have to say Ali (Alisson) made some world-class saves or we were slightly lucky, but not today and that’s a compliment to my boys,” beamed Klopp.

No wonder the manager wrapped his arms around Gomez, who has made the leap over the past month from being Van Dijk’s sidekick to the leader of the back four. Remarkably, Sunday was the first time Gomez and Matip have started a game under Klopp as centre-back partners – the 37th different pairing of the German’s reign. Gomez has had four different partners in as many games but he has found his voice and grown in stature. The 23-year-old completed more passes (61) than any other Liverpool player with an accuracy rate of 89 per cent.

Faced with a difficult decision between playing the in-form Jota and the misfiring Firmino, Klopp opted to change the system and find room for them both. It was bold, especially considering the calibre of the opposition. At times it was 4-2-4 before later resembling 4-4-2 when Liverpool ran out of gas.

Did it work? It certainly caught City by surprise early on but Liverpool weren’t clinical enough when they were in the ascendancy. Once again Firmino’s touch and finishing let him down and it was telling that he was the first to make way when Klopp sought fresh legs after the interval and brought on Shaqiri. Jota struggled to impose himself on proceedings after his recent heroics.

But the downside of playing with four attackers was underlined when City rallied with Jordan Henderson and Georginio Wijnaldum outnumbered in the middle of the park. As a result, De Bruyne was able to find the pockets of space he relishes. Klopp’s decision would surely have been different if he had either Thiago or Fabinho to select as a third midfielder.

“I loved the energy of both teams — a proper fight at the highest level, denying the opponent with the quality you have,” Klopp said. “We did that in a lot of moments. I’m really happy with the result and the performance.”

No wonder. Klopp knows that Liverpool have safely navigated a potentially treacherous course. They have already played Chelsea, Everton and now City away from home.

In Thiago and Fabinho, reinforcements are on the way. Their rivals may well be kicking themselves for failing to cash in on Liverpool’s misfortune.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:30 PM   #112
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I think it’s definitely in our favour that no one else look like title winners so far. Makes a big difference having Allison back
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Old 11-11-20, 04:25 PM   #113
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What timing. Gomez is out.
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Old 11-11-20, 04:27 PM   #114
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Maybe this thread could be changed to Title Defence?
No need
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Old 11-11-20, 04:53 PM   #115
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Old 11-11-20, 05:43 PM   #116
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Quitters.

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Old 11-11-20, 08:24 PM   #117
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Just wanted to use that gif.


We are pretty fucked tho.
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Old 11-11-20, 08:43 PM   #118
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I wouldnít say itís over... but it will be hard, thatís for sure!

Last 2 years, our biggest strength was our consistency- very rare that we slip up against a team that we should be beating... our defense is still better than most teams in the league, and our attack is the best in the league.. If we consistently win the games that we should be winning, as we have done, I think we can still do it!

We have 3 out of our 4 hardest fixtures, out of the way, and weíre effectively top of the league (ie weíre ahead of city).

We havenít seen much of them, but Rhys Williams and Nat Philips have both looked good. Hopefully even one of them can establish themselves over the season.

Imagine if we do win it- and then next year we add VVD back into the mix! It will be like a new signing- adding the best defender in the world, to the champions!! Meanwhile pep leaves... all of a sudden weíre looking at long term domination!
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Old 11-11-20, 09:10 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Mr Pink View Post
I wouldnít say itís over... but it will be hard, thatís for sure!

Last 2 years, our biggest strength was our consistency- very rare that we slip up against a team that we should be beating... our defense is still better than most teams in the league, and our attack is the best in the league.. If we consistently win the games that we should be winning, as we have done, I think we can still do it!

We have 3 out of our 4 hardest fixtures, out of the way, and weíre effectively top of the league (ie weíre ahead of city).

We havenít seen much of them, but Rhys Williams and Nat Philips have both looked good. Hopefully even one of them can establish themselves over the season.

Imagine if we do win it- and then next year we add VVD back into the mix! It will be like a new signing- adding the best defender in the world, to the champions!! Meanwhile pep leaves... all of a sudden weíre looking at long term domination!
I'm quite happy to get on board with this optimism.
Add in a working vaccine next year and crowds watching us win the league
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Old 11-11-20, 10:06 PM   #120
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With the best will in the world, itís going to be extremely tough going now... No VVD, Gomez, Thiago, Tsimikas and Fab making their way back, still no Ox nor Keita, TAA out for a few weeks... the injury list is crazy. Defence is decimated and having to rely on Phillips and Williams - good as they have been and could be - thatís a tough ask.

Surely we have to go into the Jan transfer window for quality cover... weíll never last the season otherwise.
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