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Old 12-08-17, 07:38 PM   #4601
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Most likely bollocks. What does seem strange to me is Klopp saying there is no plan B, C, D etc. I take that as FSG not putting the money up for VVD and Keita or Klopp being mental not going for alternatives. I'd go for the former.
We can't afford to allow the window to close and us not hav brought players in, and if we don't, we need to know the reasons why. i.e. whether Klopp had the money but didn't want to spend it or if the owners aren't coughing up the cash.
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Old 12-08-17, 07:56 PM   #4602
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Someone pointed out earlier today that Klopp has had 4 transfer windows and hasn't felt the need to improve upon Mignolet, Lovren and Moreno. We will never win anything with those players being relied upon. Add in there the patchy form of Matip and the pedestrian midfield and you can see where this is all going again. 4th at best - that's not really what we're supposed to be about.

Someone is at fault here - Klopp possibly, FSG possibly - either way someone is culpable. We'll have more games to play this season but the same lacking is there still - no squad depth and poor first choices.

The summer has been shit, the signings inadequate and the back is 5 a fucking joke.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:13 PM   #4603
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Originally Posted by Daniel 7;3393849[B
]Someone pointed out earlier today that Klopp has had 4 transfer windows and hasn't felt the need to improve upon Mignolet, Lovren and Moreno.[/B] We will never win anything with those players being relied upon. Add in there the patchy form of Matip and the pedestrian midfield and you can see where this is all going again. 4th at best - that's not really what we're supposed to be about.

Someone is at fault here - Klopp possibly, FSG possibly - either way someone is culpable. We'll have more games to play this season but the same lacking is there still - no squad depth and poor first choices.

The summer has been shit, the signings inadequate and the back is 5 a fucking joke.
Maybe he's not been allowed to get the players he wants and instead been handed cheaper alternatives, Karius £5m and Robertson £8m. He wants VVD so you can't say he's not identified improvements. Klopp saying no plan B seems like he's sick of being handed cheaper alternatives.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:17 PM   #4604
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That Graeme Kelly bloke who people like to quote as one of few reliable ITK people has said parts of that statement is true, the other parts he doesn't know about, but he wouldn't be surprised if it was all correct.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:20 PM   #4605
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Maybe he's not been allowed to get the players he wants and instead been handed cheaper alternatives, Karius £5m and Robertson £8m. He wants VVD so you can't say he's not identified improvements. Klopp saying no plan B seems like he's sick of being handed cheaper alternatives.
Sometimes you don't get what you want, for whatever reason. It could be the lack of funds, the player is overpriced, the club are unwilling to sell etc. I am hoping that we haven't gone to plan B because we genuinely believe that we can still do a deal for first choices and not because we have decided if we can't have our first choice we won't get anyone. If we had a world class side and a strong squad and the one player who could improve us was unavailable then I can understand not signing someone else, but we aren't in that situation, not only do we need top quality we also need numbers, Matip, Lovren, Klavan and Gomez are not enough CBs for us to get through the season.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:30 PM   #4606
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Can I just say that people call me out for being negative and I read this and think WTF. I'm not going to comment on the game, I saw barely 5 mins as I was at work. On hearing the result, I smiled. It wasn't unexpected. It's Liverpool football club. It's what we do.

I'm having fresh crab meat, vine tomatoes, lettuce, rocket and basil, with a crusty loaf washed down with the rest of the white rioja. I'm going to enjoy. I'll have a campari and tonic as well. Be good, be playful, share the love.

Campari? Have you moved to the 1960's Bob?
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Old 12-08-17, 08:30 PM   #4607
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Sometimes you don't get what you want, for whatever reason. It could be the lack of funds, the player is overpriced, the club are unwilling to sell etc. I am hoping that we haven't gone to plan B because we genuinely believe that we can still do a deal for first choices and not because we have decided if we can't have our first choice we won't get anyone. If we had a world class side and a strong squad and the one player who could improve us was unavailable then I can understand not signing someone else, but we aren't in that situation, not only do we need top quality we also need numbers, Matip, Lovren, Klavan and Gomez are not enough CBs for us to get through the season.
I think there obviously is a plan B but for once it would be nice to get get plan A. I suspect this is how Klopp is feeling at the moment.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:38 PM   #4608
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klopp stating so publicly that there is no plan b, c or d must be a message to the owners. maybe fsg feel the prices have gone mental [fair enough] but we have been penny pinching for some time, tv money has gone mental, and klopp knows its time to make a push as we are back in the CL so need to strengthen and add quality.

move some of our first team players down to squaddies by bringing in better than what we have is the ideal thing.
but the reality is we might not get VVD or keita, so we then need to have other targets lined up.

whoever is in charge of negotiating and contacting these other clubs may be just another bumbling fool with a grand job title but little idea of the football world in which he is now moving.

maybe the guy is under orders from klopp to seal the deal and get the man, but then fsg are saying we'll give you £50 up front and then a penny a week for the rest of eternity.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:41 PM   #4609
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That Graeme Kelly bloke who people like to quote as one of few reliable ITK people has said parts of that statement is true, the other parts he doesn't know about, but he wouldn't be surprised if it was all correct.
Yeah. I smell that something is not right. Could be a bumpy ride over the next few weeks/season.

From someone (GK) who has been convinced consistently we'll have a good summer he's had an about turn recently. That would indicate his sources (if he has any, prob media folk only) have changed their info which could indeed point to issues.

We know FSG play the media game so while reports were all rosey early in the summer re, 200m, keita, VVD, ox nothing actually came to fruition. Another window of PR and fuck all delivery.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:46 PM   #4610
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Campari? Have you moved to the 1960's Bob?
it's ace. Slice of lemon and some tonic, bobs your uncle.
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Old 12-08-17, 09:00 PM   #4611
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it's ace. Slice of lemon and some tonic, bobs your uncle.
Get yourself on the negronis, Bob
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Old 12-08-17, 09:02 PM   #4612
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That Graeme Kelly bloke who people like to quote as one of few reliable ITK people has said parts of that statement is true, the other parts he doesn't know about, but he wouldn't be surprised if it was all correct.
That Graeme Kelly bloke has stated that Klopp wants to sell Coutinho but the owners are stopping him from doing so, yet he wouldn't be surprised that a statement containing the 'fact' that the owners want to sell Coutinho is all correct?

Haven't these twitter ITKs got more constructive things to do with their time? At least line up their nonsense to be more consistent.......they are all over the place, just like our defence
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Old 12-08-17, 09:09 PM   #4613
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it's ace. Slice of lemon and some tonic, bobs your uncle.
Bob chilling after the match.

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Old 12-08-17, 09:11 PM   #4614
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you're not far off.
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Old 12-08-17, 09:15 PM   #4615
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Will Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, and Utd concede 3 goals against Watford this season? I highly doubt it.
Chelsea just conceded 3 at home against Burnley. Arsenal the same against Leicester. Clearly our defending was a shambles today but we're not remotely the only top 6 side who have had defensive issues this weekend!
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Old 12-08-17, 09:21 PM   #4616
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And it's only the first game of the season....
So?
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Old 12-08-17, 09:24 PM   #4617
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Chelsea just conceded 3 at home against Burnley. Arsenal the same against Leicester. Clearly our defending was a shambles today but we're not remotely the only top 6 side who have had defensive issues this weekend!
Nope but ours have been going on for years & we've done fuck all about them. Citing the Chavs at least is very much whataboutery. We need get our own house in order.
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Old 12-08-17, 09:25 PM   #4618
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Chelsea just conceded 3 at home against Burnley. Arsenal the same against Leicester. Clearly our defending was a shambles today but we're not remotely the only top 6 side who have had defensive issues this weekend!
We know that but we've been horrific defensively for years not just today. Chelsea have been nowhere near as bad in the past. Either way it needs addressing.
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Old 12-08-17, 09:26 PM   #4619
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Wagner 2-0 up at Palace. We got the wrong German!!
There may be more to that than a throwaway comment. We as a fan base have a huge love in for Klopp but how much analysis has been done with regards to his Dortmund squad and what he inherited.

I love Klopp and would love him to succeed here but we may be asking a lot of him and he might not be up to the job. Scary thought
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Old 12-08-17, 09:27 PM   #4620
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Chelsea just conceded 3 at home against Burnley. Arsenal the same against Leicester. Clearly our defending was a shambles today but we're not remotely the only top 6 side who have had defensive issues this weekend!
And Watford have spent more than us since the end of the last season. Plus we're without 3 key players through injury
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Old 12-08-17, 09:29 PM   #4621
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I feel it all comes down to not spending the money until we know if we qualify for the CL against Hoffenheim

But the concensus about how weak we are is evident by todays fullbacks , a bloke who couldnt get a game last season and a youngster in the first game of the season.

I find this baffling , it seems like we keep saying don't buy for the sake of it.

But Ox would get into my team ahead of most of our midfielders and defenders that is how average we are in that department.
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Old 12-08-17, 10:28 PM   #4622
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Nope but ours have been going on for years & we've done fuck all about them. Citing the Chavs at least is very much whataboutery. We need get our own house in order.
It doesn't matter what other sides, getting our own house in order is all that matters.
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Old 12-08-17, 10:54 PM   #4623
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In his post match he did say he was up early preparing the game but although you might not have seen it he was.



I found that somewhat reassuring that he might know what he's doing but the players are too dim to carry out instructions. Although I don't agree with Firmino attacking the space (or not as was the case).



But yeah, I don't think anyone will argue with you that the defence is OK, maybe Fredo or FosterBloke at a push.


I don't think our defence is a shambles, our defensive shape and responsibilities are. All of yesterday's goals started from errors from midfielders or attackers which caught us out.

The first was because Firmino didn't pay attention, the second was because of Henderson and the third was Wijnaldum.
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Old 12-08-17, 10:58 PM   #4624
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Chelsea, Arsenal or whoever having problems just makes ours worse tbh, there's a legit chance here to capitalise on others mistakes and the lack of outstanding teams in Europe right now, Real aside. And we are dithering. So fucking irritating. We've always had a semi valid excuse in recent years like no CL, no big name manager, not enough money, well none of that applies now (though the no CL excuse might be coming soon if we defend like that v Hoffenheim).

It's mad what was meant to be the dream window has us starting the first game of the season with Moreno at left back and no senior midfield cover at all, though maybe Milner counts again now he's not number 1 lb. We'll see what happens over the coming weeks but heads should roll if we don't get Dijk at least. I've got no faith in us getting stuff done or winning some tough deadline day negotiation with Southampton or some crazy Ukrainian businessman or whatever but hopefully I'm surprised!
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Old 12-08-17, 11:21 PM   #4625
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Chelsea, Arsenal or whoever having problems just makes ours worse tbh, there's a legit chance here to capitalise on others mistakes and the lack of outstanding teams in Europe right now, Real aside. And we are dithering. So fucking irritating. We've always had a semi valid excuse in recent years like no CL, no big name manager, not enough money, well none of that applies now (though the no CL excuse might be coming soon if we defend like that v Hoffenheim).

It's mad what was meant to be the dream window has us starting the first game of the season with Moreno at left back and no senior midfield cover at all, though maybe Milner counts again now he's not number 1 lb. We'll see what happens over the coming weeks but heads should roll if we don't get Dijk at least. I've got no faith in us getting stuff done or winning some tough deadline day negotiation with Southampton or some crazy Ukrainian businessman or whatever but hopefully I'm surprised!
So basically you've been a hyper positive bullshitter. I rest my case.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:23 PM   #4626
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Zzzz you are tedious, lonely old bore.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:32 PM   #4627
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That Graeme Kelly bloke has stated that Klopp wants to sell Coutinho but the owners are stopping him from doing so, yet he wouldn't be surprised that a statement containing the 'fact' that the owners want to sell Coutinho is all correct?

Haven't these twitter ITKs got more constructive things to do with their time? At least line up their nonsense to be more consistent.......they are all over the place, just like our defence
Just commented on that in another thread. Mental.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:35 PM   #4628
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I don't think our defence is a shambles, our defensive shape and responsibilities are. All of yesterday's goals started from errors from midfielders or attackers which caught us out.

The first was because Firmino didn't pay attention, the second was because of Henderson and the third was Wijnaldum.
Probably true as goal segments of games generally all start further up the pitch, but we still ought to be better at defending set pieces.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:40 PM   #4629
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Zzzz you are tedious, lonely old bore.
lonely? Yeah my wife ain't sitting next to me. One game in and the facade has slipped my friend. You are a bullshitter. It's all good.
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Old 12-08-17, 11:46 PM   #4630
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Zzzz you are a tedious, lonely old bore.
And I've said all summer we need players so I'm not sure what your stalky victim self is upset about now! Is the wife not talking? Can she even talk?

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Old 13-08-17, 12:04 AM   #4631
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And I've said all summer we need players so I'm not sure what your stalky victim self is upset about now! Is the wife not talking? Can she even talk?
Haha brilliant. I don't much like you, but you are priceless.

Can she not talk? what you saying? I've married a mute? What if I have. She trys and god loves one of those.

You know what, however much of a twat you think I am and I think upon you, I know you want Liverpool to do well and I do also. So it's all bullshit. Whether you are glass half full or half empty, it's irrelevant as the one consistency remains the team continues to disappoint every year.

Here's to another 37 games you nutter.
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Old 13-08-17, 12:12 AM   #4632
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Get a room guys.
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Old 13-08-17, 12:21 AM   #4633
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Get a room guys.
Padded room..

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Old 13-08-17, 12:47 AM   #4634
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Padded room..

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Old 13-08-17, 12:50 AM   #4635
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Old 13-08-17, 04:08 AM   #4636
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And I've said all summer we need players so I'm not sure what your stalky victim self is upset about now! Is the wife not talking? Can she even talk?
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Haha brilliant. I don't much like you, but you are priceless.

Can she not talk? what you saying? I've married a mute? What if I have. She trys and god loves one of those.

You know what, however much of a twat you think I am and I think upon you, I know you want Liverpool to do well and I do also. So it's all bullshit. Whether you are glass half full or half empty, it's irrelevant as the one consistency remains the team continues to disappoint every year.

Here's to another 37 games you nutter.
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Old 14-08-17, 11:06 AM   #4637
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it's curious how Klopp hasn't brought in a raft of either german players or players from the german leagues.

Aside from Karius I cant think of anybody else.

When houllier joined we had an influx of french players and then an influx of Spanish players when Rafa joined. They used their extensive knowledge of their native leagues to hoover up young talent.

Klopp hasn't done that at all.

Further, looking at his new found faith in Moreno, he seems to be confident he can coach players to be better rather than rely on the last number of seasons evidence as proof that players aren't up to the job - see Mig, Lovren etc

Looking at his time at Dortmund, does he need a director of football to be at his most effective?
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Old 14-08-17, 11:23 AM   #4638
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it's curious how Klopp hasn't brought in a raft of either german players or players from the german leagues.

Aside from Karius I cant think of anybody else.

When houllier joined we had an influx of french players and then an influx of Spanish players when Rafa joined. They used their extensive knowledge of their native leagues to hoover up young talent.

Klopp hasn't done that at all.

Further, looking at his new found faith in Moreno, he seems to be confident he can coach players to be better rather than rely on the last number of seasons evidence as proof that players aren't up to the job - see Mig, Lovren etc

Looking at his time at Dortmund, does he need a director of football to be at his most effective?
Klavan also

The bit above is the most important thing for me, when we found out we were getting Klopp one of the things that was the most exciting was that we were all of sudden going to buy the best hidden gems and turn them into superstars ala Dortmund.

The one thing that worried me in all of this was how good was Klopp and finding his own players. At Dortmund he had:

Zorc - one of the best around as a DoF
Sven Mislintat - their head scout and Bayern just tried to poach him from them.
Hans-Joachim Watzke - their CEO who has been there for almost 20 years so it a real football man.

A lot of the supporting structures he had at Dortmund are questionable at Liverpool - Edwards, FSG, Moore are all unproven at this level. Look I think he can spot a player but it's not like Naby, VVD etc are not already known. It will be the likes of Grujic, Karius and these type of players that will define the success we have because these were the type of bargains the BVB had and generated them bucketloads of money that they could reinvest WISELY.
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Old 14-08-17, 11:29 AM   #4639
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He needs to lay off the Stella and pub quizzes and put some over time in. Rocks up to training then goes home and forgets all about it. Walking the dog like he has all the time in the world.

On a serious note there is lots of talented players in Germany who wouldn't take thst long to adapt to the league. I would have loved to have signed Bartra, tah or soneone like john Brooks. However we need experience and leaders also.

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Old 14-08-17, 11:29 AM   #4640
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He's on a. It of a hiding to nothing transfer wise though.

Buy and unearth an unknown gem, and it will be, 'not another player for the future'.

Buy a proven star, and he'll get 'well, everyone knows about VVD and Keita'.

If this summer has proven anything it is that buying top level players in this market is not easy because seemingly smaller clubs are in a position where they can turn down £50m bids.

That said I doubt Souampton can turn down £60m.
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