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Old 21-03-19, 06:40 AM   #41
EwarWoo
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Originally Posted by Cormack74 View Post
a type rating?
He'd be better getting a pilots license, being able to type quicker wont help him much.
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Old 21-03-19, 11:06 AM   #42
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Work really fucking hard at school and get on a scholarship programme! Or join the RAF.

Or do something else that he enjoys, earn enough money to join a consortium and timeshare a Cessna or something and fun fly?

I wanted to be a pilot growing up, but mostly because of Battlestar Galactica. At 16, having talked my way into the cockpit on a flight back from Alicante and being allowed to stay for landing, and set the altimeter for the autopilot in response to radio from ground control, the 2 pilots convinced me it was shit, boring job and if I wanted to fly, become a systems analyst and fly for fun.
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Old 21-03-19, 11:56 AM   #43
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I wanted to be a pilot growing up. Was one of those nerds who could quote any figure on just about any military plane flying. I started an armed forces course at college when I left school as a way in because my grades weren't good enough.

Lasted about 4 weeks before deciding it would be more fun to get a job so I had money to get pissed with mates. Lol.
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Old 21-03-19, 12:21 PM   #44
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One of my kids is keen to become a commercial pilot. Does anyone want to lend me £100K or ideally £130k so he can go on and get a type rating?
Fuck, is that how inaccessible it is?
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Old 21-03-19, 12:46 PM   #45
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If you just buy it all, he's young!

Look at the scholarship programmes. Take him gliding or on a microlight course. He could get a PPL for a single engine for £4-6 grand etc. Other ratings, like instruments, night flying, radio, navigation and other types of plane etc can follow in dribs and drabs. This is all gold dust extra curricular stuff when applying for scholarships from BA etc

He will need some grades though Maths and Physics were essential and really want to be getting A's.

It is tough to get into, like Brain Science and Rocket Surgery, its a Blue Chip profession and you want the cream of the crop. Flying need not be too expensive, an hour with instruction is around £100, lots of clubs and schools have very soft finance options too.
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Old 21-03-19, 01:02 PM   #46
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Yeah a lot of what Billob said there seems sensible advice. I went to school with someone who desperately wanted to be a pilot. He was thick as two short planks but he knew he needed maths and physics so seriously applied himself at those and got decent A-levels in both. It took him ages but he gradually worked his way up in various roles for airports and airlines, networking and understanding how shit worked while he funded himself to learn to fly and get various bits of accreditation.

If you know what you want and are prepared to apply yourself, there's a way there! Mad that some people would be looking to that sort of enormous outlay though
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Old 21-03-19, 10:17 PM   #47
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Fuck, is that how inaccessible it is?
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Originally Posted by BillobShaisley View Post
If you just buy it all, he's young!

Look at the scholarship programmes. Take him gliding or on a microlight course. He could get a PPL for a single engine for £4-6 grand etc. Other ratings, like instruments, night flying, radio, navigation and other types of plane etc can follow in dribs and drabs. This is all gold dust extra curricular stuff when applying for scholarships from BA etc

He will need some grades though Maths and Physics were essential and really want to be getting A's.

It is tough to get into, like Brain Science and Rocket Surgery, its a Blue Chip profession and you want the cream of the crop. Flying need not be too expensive, an hour with instruction is around £100, lots of clubs and schools have very soft finance options too.

Times have changed chaps as I've found this past 12 months or so since I started devoting some time to research and finding pilots to talk to. Although if there are any Commercial Pilots on here who want to pass on their own experiences I'd be pleased to receive them.

First off the nature of training is different. Very few airlines (the Gulf carriers being the notable exception) now run their own courses. This has pretty much been the case since 911 apparently.

And (possibly) partly for this reason traditional routes like the RAF are not especially beneficial plus you have to compete with stacks of other like minded people and do 5 years with them first whereas most Commercial Programmes take kids at 18.

Weird though it may sound there is no benefit to being a qualified (private) pilot in terms of getting on a course because they're going to teach you that anyway and the qualification is worthless since the one you need to get is called an MPL. Plus you need to get type rated on a Boeing, Airbus or whatever.

Once upon a time (not that long ago) the good flying schools running MPL like Oxford (now CAE) or CTC (now L3) were very selective at intake stage and kept their numbers fairly low and the airlines would pretty much scoop up all their trainees as soon as they had finished the course: supply equalled demand.

Now CAE is owned by a private equity company and L3 by an American conglomerate and quality has been replaced by quantity. I went to an open day at L3 and there were probably in excess of 200 prospective students. I was naively expecting about 50. So whilst there is still an assessment test to be passed, I would a be a bit doubtful if it's still at the level that it once was because let's face it at 100+ K a pop the average Private Equity company or American multi-national wants bums on seats and lots of them. There is certainly no requirement for Maths and Physics at A level anymore.

Of course some students do get picked up by airlines along the way and clearly some at the end, but take up is by no means 100%. It doesn't matter if you've spent big bucks if you do get offered a job because these kids aged 20 will be paid £40k from day one by anyone reputable so can pay it back in no time. But for the others the future is somewhat more expensive and uncertain.

Sorry if I've rambled lads - I could go on for several more pages to be honest so be thankful you got the edited version
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Old 21-03-19, 10:47 PM   #48
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Times have changed chaps as I've found this past 12 months or so since I started devoting some time to research and finding pilots to talk to. Although if there are any Commercial Pilots on here who want to pass on their own experiences I'd be pleased to receive them.

First off the nature of training is different. Very few airlines (the Gulf carriers being the notable exception) now run their own courses. This has pretty much been the case since 911 apparently.

And (possibly) partly for this reason traditional routes like the RAF are not especially beneficial plus you have to compete with stacks of other like minded people and do 5 years with them first whereas most Commercial Programmes take kids at 18.

Weird though it may sound there is no benefit to being a qualified (private) pilot in terms of getting on a course because they're going to teach you that anyway and the qualification is worthless since the one you need to get is called an MPL. Plus you need to get type rated on a Boeing, Airbus or whatever.

Once upon a time (not that long ago) the good flying schools running MPL like Oxford (now CAE) or CTC (now L3) were very selective at intake stage and kept their numbers fairly low and the airlines would pretty much scoop up all their trainees as soon as they had finished the course: supply equalled demand.

Now CAE is owned by a private equity company and L3 by an American conglomerate and quality has been replaced by quantity. I went to an open day at L3 and there were probably in excess of 200 prospective students. I was naively expecting about 50. So whilst there is still an assessment test to be passed, I would a be a bit doubtful if it's still at the level that it once was because let's face it at 100+ K a pop the average Private Equity company or American multi-national wants bums on seats and lots of them. There is certainly no requirement for Maths and Physics at A level anymore.

Of course some students do get picked up by airlines along the way and clearly some at the end, but take up is by no means 100%. It doesn't matter if you've spent big bucks if you do get offered a job because these kids aged 20 will be paid £40k from day one by anyone reputable so can pay it back in no time. But for the others the future is somewhat more expensive and uncertain.

Sorry if I've rambled lads - I could go on for several more pages to be honest so be thankful you got the edited version
Sheesh. Sounds like a minefield.
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Old 21-03-19, 11:05 PM   #49
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Sheesh. Sounds like a minefield.


The more I learn / speak to people the harder it gets and I haven't even taken you down the road of overseas options Maybe I'll save that for another day
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Old 22-03-19, 08:43 AM   #50
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The more I learn / speak to people the harder it gets and I haven't even taken you down the road of overseas options Maybe I'll save that for another day
You might want to check with MrM that he's got space on the database
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Old 22-03-19, 03:01 PM   #51
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You're not wrong mate I could fill entire data centres with this stuff
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Old 22-03-19, 09:38 PM   #52
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From what I know - Air Force + Loan for Comms Pilots license (circa 25 -100k) dependant.
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Old 24-03-19, 08:29 PM   #53
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‪Exclusive: Cardiff City plan to tell Fifa deal struck to buy Emiliano Sala became 'null and void' after he died' | via @telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...iliano/‬
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Old 24-03-19, 09:14 PM   #54
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So Cardiff are going to argue they don't owe money because they broke the rules. Stay classy, hopefully in the championship.
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Old 25-03-19, 05:40 PM   #55
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47696561

And it all kicks off, unpleasant business this is!
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Old 25-03-19, 06:06 PM   #56
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It is an unpleasant business, football is a commodity market for people, it's bizarre. Issues of ill-health, injury and death just expose it for what it is.
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Old 25-03-19, 06:19 PM   #57
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Cardiff, in big business is ruled by the clauses of contracts shocker!!

Going to be an interesting case. I seem to be the only one that is reserving judgement. IF they win, i.e. their interpretation of the clauses is correct, then I utterly fail to see why they should pay £15mil they aren't legally obliged to, to a competitor as some form of moral tax?
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Old 25-03-19, 06:37 PM   #58
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Kind of exposes all the tears and scarfs in Cardiff as a bit of an empty gesture.

This was always going to be a nightmare.
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Old 25-03-19, 06:43 PM   #59
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Why? I can be sad that a guy dies, without giving Nantes money I don't have to?
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Old 25-03-19, 06:47 PM   #60
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Can't wait to see the back of this shit stain of a club when they get relegated.
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Old 25-03-19, 07:20 PM   #61
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Why? I can be sad that a guy dies, without giving Nantes money I don't have to?
No - you do. Check the small print
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Old 25-03-19, 07:35 PM   #62
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Kind of exposes all the tears and scarfs in Cardiff as a bit of an empty gesture.

This was always going to be a nightmare.
It don't agree with that at all. In fact it's a bizarre interpretation.
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Old 25-03-19, 07:37 PM   #63
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It's not that bizzare given all the 'forever a bluebird' and 'one of us' type lines they were trotting out
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Old 25-03-19, 07:42 PM   #64
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It had to be a weird one for them.

An emotional response was required for someone they never made an emotional connection with.

Legally, they may or may not be liable for the fee. And I guess itís insurance where the debate is being had.

But ultimately they were the reason he had to set foot on that plane. It cannot sit well that they are trying to find clauses to release them from financial (or indeed whose insurance) obligation.

Bad karma.
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Old 25-03-19, 08:59 PM   #65
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It had to be a weird one for them.

An emotional response was required for someone they never made an emotional connection with.

Legally, they may or may not be liable for the fee. And I guess itís insurance where the debate is being had.

But ultimately they were the reason he had to set foot on that plane. It cannot sit well that they are trying to find clauses to release them from financial (or indeed whose insurance) obligation.

Bad karma.
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Old 25-03-19, 09:03 PM   #66
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Wtf, they were the reason he got on the plane, so they were in some way culpable? I don't think there is a logical way to link hypocrisy with an emotional response to a death and the financial fall out tbh. Resorting to karma doesn't help.
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Old 25-03-19, 09:30 PM   #67
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I’m not arguing it in court for them though am I

I can talk about karma and divine retribution. I’d feel responsible as the entity that set the chain of events in motion that ended in his death (on 2 deaths). And if I could walk away from the deal feeling i had done well by everyone then that’s what I’d do.

I just think all the hollow sentiment that emanated from them has been shown up to be exactly that.
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Old 25-03-19, 10:43 PM   #68
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Well no grief or equivalent response to the death of someone without a person connection is genuine; pick a name on the dropping like flies thread; couldn't really give a shit about any of them truth be told. But collectively we know that there are people with a personal involvement who are affected and do care, so we have a collective theatre of public grief and respect. There is an acceptable level of reverence that is socially expected. Backing that up with writing off £15m though, fuck that. There's no reason to think that the myriad of people involved in the emotional reaction to the incident weren't as genuine as anyone else because the people in charge of keeping the club running realise that writing off £15m that they may not owe is too high a price for a bit of good PR or for an imaginary concept like Karma.
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Old 25-03-19, 11:14 PM   #69
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I agree with that re grief, and it will get worse as we are just in the early days in terms of age of death of Celebrity death culture, in about 10 years there will be one or two a day .

I’d never heard of Sala until his plane went down he was mad to get on that flight.

karma is real though.
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Old 25-03-19, 11:38 PM   #70
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It's not though, it's mumbo jumbo.
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Old 26-03-19, 12:09 AM   #71
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I have no issue with Cardiff pursuing this, it's just basic sense. Their chairman kicking it off in the media around the guys funeral though was disgusting and everything following that now makes 'em look like twats.
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Old 26-03-19, 12:23 AM   #72
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It's not though, it's mumbo jumbo.


Karmas coming for you.
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Old 30-03-19, 07:36 AM   #73
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Finally some truths. Pilot not qualified to fly at night. Massive insurance implications given his £12m cargo.

Quote:
"Colour-blindness stops a pilot from obtaining a night rating straight away, because being able to differentiate between green and red lights is key to flying in the dark," an aviation source told BBC Wales.
"Anything that's on the UK licence applies to the US licence as well, so he couldn't do anything more than the UK licence allows.
"Flying outside the restrictions of your licence is illegal and that's likely to affect the insurance cover for the flight."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47749265

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Old 30-03-19, 08:15 AM   #74
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Whoever organised that flight is in the shit. Hiring an unlicensed pilot to fly at night sounds like someone is going to prison.
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Old 30-03-19, 10:06 AM   #75
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I wonder how it works? Pilots would have to submit a flight plan and you would imagine at this point licenses would be checked. So I don’t reckon the culpability falls with who never booked the flight unless they knowingly were involved. If they were being deceived, how would anyone know what to look for if you are privately looking for a pilot licenses etc must

The person that would likely be in the most trouble is dead.
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Old 30-03-19, 10:16 AM   #76
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Well no grief or equivalent response to the death of someone without a person connection is genuine; pick a name on the dropping like flies thread; couldn't really give a shit about any of them truth be told. But collectively we know that there are people with a personal involvement who are affected and do care, so we have a collective theatre of public grief and respect. There is an acceptable level of reverence that is socially expected. Backing that up with writing off £15m though, fuck that. There's no reason to think that the myriad of people involved in the emotional reaction to the incident weren't as genuine as anyone else because the people in charge of keeping the club running realise that writing off £15m that they may not owe is too high a price for a bit of good PR or for an imaginary concept like Karma.
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Old 30-03-19, 12:03 PM   #77
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Whoever organised that flight is in the shit. Hiring an unlicensed pilot to fly at night sounds like someone is going to prison.
Quote:
Flight plans seen by BBC Wales indicate the flight scheduled to take Argentine player Sala for his first training session with Cardiff City had been due to leave Nantes airport at 09:00 local time on 21 January.

But the flight was postponed until 19:00, at the request of Sala, to allow him to spend the day saying goodbye to his Nantes teammates.

By the time Mr Ibbotson taxied a Piper Malibu plane on to the runway ready for take-off shortly after 19:00, it would have been around an hour and 10 minutes since sunset.

In an interview in February, football agent Willie McKay, who commissioned the flight, told the BBC that he and his family paid for the flight.

He was not involved, he said, in selecting the plane or the pilot and it was not a cost-share arrangement.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47749265
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Old 30-03-19, 12:51 PM   #78
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Whoever organised that flight is in the shit. Hiring an unlicensed pilot to fly at night sounds like someone is going to prison.
Not sure the person organising the flight would be in trouble unless they explicitly asked for an unqualified pilot. If, for arguments sake, someone hired a minibus and driver to take a group of people on an outing and it turned out the driver wasn't licensed the person making the booking wouldn't get in the shit. You expect the person to be qualified to provide the servicetthey are offering and wouldn't demand to see that they are
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Old 31-03-19, 12:37 AM   #79
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I wonder how it works? Pilots would have to submit a flight plan and you would imagine at this point licenses would be checked. So I donít reckon the culpability falls with who never booked the flight unless they knowingly were involved. If they were being deceived, how would anyone know what to look for if you are privately looking for a pilot licenses etc must

The person that would likely be in the most trouble is dead.

I am assuming that there must be a company who the agent booked the flight with and who arranged the pilot and plane. The agent said he didn't know the pilot so there must be a middle man and I imagine it will be them that ultimately is responsible
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Old 26-04-19, 01:46 PM   #80
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His Dad, just died of a Heart Attack, he was 58, just 3 months after they lost a son. So sad.
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