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Old 19-05-19, 12:10 PM   #4521
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Originally Posted by foresterbloke View Post
In terms of selling players to bring their figures into line with FFP. I didn't mean like a fine.
Selling players now isnít going to fix their figures retrospectively. It goes back as much as 8 years breaking of the financial rules. They can only fall in to line going forward, which would be a start, but isnít a punishment for what theyíve done already.

UEFA canít dock them points in the PL. I think all they could do is ban them from European competition or a transfer ban.
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Old 19-05-19, 12:18 PM   #4522
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The fact that Pep talks about the finance involved tells you he knows how big they have spent.

He talks about their required attacking options and what he wants is ridiculous, of course they are going to do well. They can rotate like for like. With Sterling, Aguero and Bernardo Silva rotating with Sane, Mahrez and Jesus. Pep is a good coach but with the resources he has it is bound to lead to massive success. So FFP is a huge part of it.

That’s 2 full strength forward lines that would each start for most teams. That’s why they won the treble and that’s why they are crooked as fuck (and this is replicated throughout the team).

By comparison we have one starting forward line averaging £30m per player and a fairly conservative back up three. We pretty much funded our squad by selling Suarez and Sterling and Coutinho.

They’ve never sold anyone for big bucks. They don’t sell out their stadium. The numbers don’t work.

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Old 19-05-19, 12:26 PM   #4523
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The fact that Pep talks about the finance involved tells you he knows how big they have spent.

He talks about their required attacking options and what he wants is ridiculous, of course they are going to do well. They can rotate like for like. With Sterling, Aguero and Bernardo Silva rotating with Sane, Mahrez and Jesus. Pep is a good coach but with the resources he has it is bound to lead to massive success. So FFP is a huge part of it.

Thatís 2 full strength forward lines that would each start for most teams. Thatís why they won the treble and thatís why they are crooked as fuck (and this is replicated throughout the team).

By comparison we have one starting forward line averaging £30m per player and a fairly conservative back up three. We pretty much funded our squad by selling Suarez and Sterling and Coutinho.

Theyíve never sold anyone for big bucks. They donít sell out their stadium. The numbers donít work.
Yep, it seems like the basic numbers cannot ever add up but these corrupt cunts know how to play with their accounts and add value to this shitty brand they created.
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Old 19-05-19, 12:58 PM   #4524
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Selling players now isnít going to fix their figures retrospectively. It goes back as much as 8 years breaking of the financial rules. They can only fall in to line going forward, which would be a start, but isnít a punishment for what theyíve done already.

UEFA canít dock them points in the PL. I think all they could do is ban them from European competition or a transfer ban.
Correct, nothing can reverse it. What might be a judicious punishment is a combination of:

-More effective scrutiny so FFP cannot be so enormously abused
-An alteration of the compliance thresholds for clubs in breach that reflects the severity of the breach; so they have a long period of not being able to have any net expenditure wrt FFP
-A heightened level of scrutinee for those serving penalties
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Old 19-05-19, 01:02 PM   #4525
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Kompany, the greatest CB that ever existed, and owner of one of the most bulbous heads mankind has ever witnessed is leaving them.

Good riddance to the filthy prick. Master of the cynical challenge and gets away with it because he's such a nice guy apparently.
Oh behave ... he's Jamie Carragher with less shouting ffs and he is top bloke no getting away from it
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Old 19-05-19, 01:17 PM   #4526
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Based on this.

They have spent £1.502bn in transfers in the last 10 years and recouped £414m so effectively £1bn squad investment. Even if the Saudis have increased their revenue streams a lot that is impossible.

Look at how much they spent the windows prior to the investment: £23m and before that £5m
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Old 19-05-19, 02:14 PM   #4527
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Everyone seems really psyched by City’s big win

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FA Cup final result: Man City flex their muscle to leave helpless Watford trailing in their wake

By Miguel Delaney

A total thrashing to reflect their total domestic domination. Manchester City win the FA Cup to become the first club in English history to complete the domestic treble, but it says an awful lot that it doesn’t feel anywhere near as seismic as it should, or that the embarrassing final scoreline shouts. It is certainly anything but “incredible”, or any of the usual adjectives that would be added to such a feat. City’s immense resources have instead made it feel somewhat inevitable, and almost as predictable as this 6-0 win over Watford at Wembley.

The crowning of a genuinely wonderful team just did not seem like such a wonderful event. That it was the joint biggest win in an FA Cup final - to go with Bury’s 6-0 over Derby County as long ago as 1903 - felt all too fitting given the feat of maximum domestic victory it confirmed.


It is usually in match reports like this that we would now begin to go into the details, the whos, the whys and the hows, but, really, what’s the point? The only relevant factor is that City are an inifinitely better-resourced club, as they have proven every time these two teams have met since Watford’s 2015 promotion. This was the English champions’ ninth win out of nine in this fixture in that time, by an aggregate score of 31-4, making it almost indistinguishable from any other victories.

We’ll tell you what’s true. You can form your own view.
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It was very often indistinguishable from any random Premier League game you want to pick out over the past two years, given that City have won over 82%, and about 70% as easily as this.

If by half-time it felt like any dull pre-season friendly in the United States, it by the end just resembled an evisceration. That’s if any neutrals were actually still watching.

The English game’s great showpiece became a great showcase for a huge problem in football, and not just in this country.

Some of this is obviously down to the genius of Pep Guardiola, and the excellence of his players. He has done to the Premier League what he did to the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich and to the Spanish league with Barcelona, racking up record wins and point hauls.

He has bent English football to his will.

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/...05500965687296

Why a diminished treble leaves Man City fans with greater questions
But this is also the increasing will of the game. We are just seeing in England a predictability that has become a massive problem in Germany, in Italy, in France and in Spain.

City thereby aren’t alone in that, but they do stand alone in terms of the nature of their project, and how they could prospectively make this problem so much worse.

Guardiola is only there because former Barcelona colleagues Txiki Begiristain and Ferran Soriano are there, who are there because the club will give them the scope for this global City Football Project and the wealth that allows it, a wealth that comes from the Abu Dhabi owners who are there because… well, those are bigger questions to go with all the questions about that regime and human rights abuses and the war in Yemen.

The very fact this is even mentioned in what is ostensibly a report on the FA Cup final says it all.

It was difficult not to feel a lot of sympathy for Watford in this situation, and not just because of the scale of the defeat and how futile their performance – their attempt to track City players – became.

Their big day was just one big bad beating, although you wouldn’t have thought from the deafening and defiant display of colour and song around the 84th minute, after it had gone 5-0. That is what football should really be about.

As to what this game was about, Watford’s big day did still come down that one big chance that Roberto Pereyra had in the first few minutes. He was put through one-on-one, and Ederson did wondrously to push it away.

There was then the penalty claim after an Abdoulaye Doucoure shot struck Vincent Kompany’s arm. It was somewhat ironic, given how this season has gone, that it would have been given in the Champions League – and certainly by VAR – but is not a penalty in England.

That, however, was the extent of the tension in the game, those 25 minutes.

That was it because, after City scored the first, that was the match.

There was no coming back.

Watford weren’t blameless or just subject to superior forces here it must be similarly acknowledged. They were slack, not least the usually excellent Doucoure, as a Raheem Sterling shot cannoned into the air from a deflection and David Silva showed superior fight to head it back. Sterling then headed it back his way, and the playmaker finished so well.

Questions could also be asked of Heurelho Gomes, and could have continued throughout the game, but that in itself almost seems so unfair.

It says just as much that, when you’re playing a team like City, the one chance you get means so much; that you have to take it – precisely because they give you so little margin for error.

That’s what they’ve done to English football, and what can they do to teams.

Watford’s one missed chance to a degree reflected the title race in that way. Liverpool had that one big chance to kill City and go seven points clear in February, but didn’t take it, and then saw City streak away with performance that was close to perfection.

That was precisely what happened here, as the goals – and the onslaught – just kept coming.

Gabriel Jesus headed in the second, before Kevin De Bruyne rolled in the third.

That was when an entirely predictable win because a procession, and reflected a problem.

Jesus got his second and City’s fourth before Sterling added the fifth and sixth.

More goals, but also just more minor details in the most major level of domination English football has ever seen.

It produced a feat we’ve never seen before, but one we might well have to get used to.
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Old 19-05-19, 02:15 PM   #4528
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Selling players now isnít going to fix their figures retrospectively. It goes back as much as 8 years breaking of the financial rules. They can only fall in to line going forward, which would be a start, but isnít a punishment for what theyíve done already.

UEFA canít dock them points in the PL. I think all they could do is ban them from European competition or a transfer ban.
Nothing is going to change history, they have won those trophies regardless, but if found guilty then there need to make sure that from the moment verdict is announced that they don't continue to benefit from the breaking of the rules they did before. That means adjusting figures that they have to meet FFP rules by, by the amount.that they have breached them by, i.e. effectively force them to sell players and get them back to a more realistic position of where they should have been going forward.

Neither a fine nor a ban is really punishment as it is a minor inconvenience that allows them to continue to benefit from the rule breaking they did. Unfortunately this is the type of punishment we are likely to see, a small slap on the wrist a minor inconvenience, but once their punishment is done they can still reap rewards from the benefits of cheating going forward using the squad that it allowed them to build. I doubt UEFA will have the balls to do this properly.
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Old 20-05-19, 09:00 AM   #4529
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Old 20-05-19, 09:12 AM   #4530
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And another. This is great stuff.

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Old 20-05-19, 09:14 AM   #4531
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That headline is incredible!

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Old 20-05-19, 09:18 AM   #4532
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That headline is incredible!

Which one are you seeing?

They've just changed it - it did say:

Quote:
How Manchester City’s owners invoked Donald Trump to rile up their gullible fanbase


Now says:

Quote:
How Manchester City’s owners invoked Donald Trump to rile up their fanbase
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Old 20-05-19, 09:20 AM   #4533
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A good read.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...97613?mode=amp
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Old 20-05-19, 09:25 AM   #4534
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Both very good articles. I particularly liked this:

Quote:
The strangest moment of Saturday’s FA Cup final came in the seconds after Manchester City’s sixth goal, when the camera cut from the mob of celebrating City players to Pep Guardiola, who was slumped on the bench with his head in his hands.

Pep looked less like a happy football coach watching his side make history and more like an anguished scientist whose prototype civil defence robot has just run amok at a trade show, slaughtering several bystanders.

It looked as though he understood that the very scale of the victory had begun to devalue it, that City were now in the territory of negative marginal returns, that the reaction to this turkey shoot would go beyond appreciation and congratulation, towards accusation and perhaps even condemnation.
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Old 20-05-19, 09:27 AM   #4535
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I liked this:

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It’s time to accept that oil-funded success and mass popularity are never going to go together. It’s as though City are perched on the back of a dragon, peering down at a sullen populace, wondering incredulously why they are not loved. Shouldn’t it be obvious?
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Old 20-05-19, 09:31 AM   #4536
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And this is as succinct as it's possible to be

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Whether they like it or not, most people see their treble as more transaction than triumph.
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Old 20-05-19, 09:32 AM   #4537
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Ken Early is one of the very best around imo.
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Old 20-05-19, 09:40 AM   #4538
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Excellent articles.

I'm glad this stuff is being written about.
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Old 20-05-19, 09:51 AM   #4539
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just think about this for a minute....

Pair any two City players together and they were more expensive than the entire Watford starting line-up.

fuck me what chance do other teams have; it really does show how absolutely amazing our season has been.
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Old 20-05-19, 10:30 AM   #4540
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just think about this for a minute....

Pair any two City players together and they were more expensive than the entire Watford starting line-up.

fuck me what chance do other teams have; it really does show how absolutely amazing our season has been.
Very true
This is why i find the 'anyone but Liverpool' mentality so surprising, you'd think we would be the club for everyman to love, doing things the right way, no bitterness, great football, and spitting in the face of the oil cheats.
We're like the Greenpeace eco warriors of football.
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Old 20-05-19, 10:36 AM   #4541
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Great to see these articles being written.

Though it is easy to read it as sour grapes from us, the issue really is much bigger and I could not be more happy with our season despite it not delivering the title.

The FA Cup did highlight the problem perfectly. A great opportunity for Watford and it was just carnage. Not even close. If football doesn’t include even a chance in hell in Cup competition for another top half premiership team then the system is broken. The reaction from Pep at 6-0 was telling. For sport to be compelling it needs to be a contest.


This was City destroying competitive football. Pep knows it as well, he is lying to himself about their achievements.

If nothing is done about it, we can look forward to watching City win every trophy domestically.
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Old 20-05-19, 10:51 AM   #4542
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You only have to look at what happens when someone dominates motorsport too much. They put rules in place to even the field.

It's usually around the machinery but money is the only lever in football's case.

Maybe something like only two transfers per window allowed, the rest have to be academy with restrictions on under 23 transfers. That would make things far more competitive and would mean more investment in youth and grassroots football.
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Old 20-05-19, 10:53 AM   #4543
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Very true
This is why i find the 'anyone but Liverpool' mentality so surprising, you'd think we would be the club for everyman to love, doing things the right way, no bitterness, great football, and spitting in the face of the oil cheats.
We're like the Greenpeace eco warriors of football.
Social media and the echo chambers it produces in football means you’re left with the thick tribal bastards who are just never going to mature enough to look at things objectively.

Look through the BBC HYS comments and you’ll find plenty of neutral fans who praise us for doing it the right way but these are drowned out by the more active ‘supporters’ of other clubs with nothing better to do but mud sling and troll.

I think it’s just a case of the more reasonable/mature fans having better things to do with their lives between games, leaving the void to be filled by the mouth foaming inbreds trying to make their clubs more relevant than they are.
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Old 20-05-19, 11:06 AM   #4544
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The anyone but Liverpool thing might be down the the fact that when we win stuff, I dont shut up about it for 12 months. Lots are the same, we as a fan base are a lot more vociferous than others. So people want that to not happen. I get it.

Its all good fun anyway, and at the end of the day. Its football.

Itll just make it sweeter when we get Number 6.
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Old 20-05-19, 11:13 AM   #4545
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The anyone but Liverpool thing might be down the the fact that when we win stuff, I dont shut up about it for 12 months. Lots are the same, we as a fan base are a lot more vociferous than others. So people want that to not happen. I get it.

Its all good fun anyway, and at the end of the day. Its football.

Itll just make it sweeter when we get Number 6.

All supporters are the same with bragging rights and milking it for at least 12 months.

Still waiting for Uefa to get their big bollocks on the table and ban Cheatchester £ity. I know it is wishfull thing but when they get banned. The FA should grow a set and demote them for the qualification season, as their results can affect qualification for other teams
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Old 20-05-19, 11:14 AM   #4546
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The anyone but Liverpool thing might be down the the fact that when we win stuff, I dont shut up about it for 12 months. Lots are the same, we as a fan base are a lot more vociferous than others. So people want that to not happen. I get it.

Its all good fun anyway, and at the end of the day. Its football.

It'll just make it sweeter when we get Number 6.
I've said this before, but I think as a general fan base we come across as a pretty arrogant and entitled bunch.

We have the history, so that makes us better than you.

We have the history and prestige, so we should be winning things.

We have authenticity and class and anyone new to the party is a plastic nouveau riche classless gobshite.

We do things the proper / Liverpool way and that means we're superior to any club that (previously) sold out (Mancs) or were bankrolled by a corrupt gangster / regime.


Plus, add in the fact it'll be 30 years without a league very soon, I'd quite chuckle at anyone else on that run who came so close on so many occasions in that time.
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Old 20-05-19, 11:14 AM   #4547
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I dunno man. Im fucking unbareable when we win anything. Been a while mind.
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Old 20-05-19, 11:16 AM   #4548
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I've said this before, but I think as a general fan base we come across as a pretty arrogant and entitled bunch.

We have the history, so that makes us better than you.

We have the history and prestige, so we should be winning things.

We have authenticity and class and anyone new to the party is a plastic nouveau riche classless gobshite.

We do things the proper / Liverpool way and that means we're superior to any club that (previously) sold out (Mancs) or were bankrolled by a corrupt gangster / regime.


Plus, add in the fact it'll be 30 years without a league very soon, I'd quite chuckle at anyone else on that run who came so close on so many occasions in that time.
That is one thing I dislike about our fanbase. Just because we have 125 years of history. Doesnt mean a club like Chelsea and City cant start to try and generate their own. It takes a long time to become a club like us. What should they do? Keep it boring as fuck and not try to generate it?
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Old 20-05-19, 12:27 PM   #4549
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Perception is always going to be skewed in opposition fans, there is no consensus and ultimately it is all moot. I think we have a likeable honest bunch of players and a manager that everyone (even begrudgingly) loves.

The issue is more that if City have become so strong (Mahrez’ a £62m signing not close to their first choice XI, same with Jesus, Sane and Stones all £50m players all not starters, Du Bruyne coming off the bench FFS, Aguero not required) giving them a squad that most of the other teams cannot deal with. If the end result is they realise there is no point in even trying in the games against them (fielding weaker teams to save players for games they feel they can win), then we have a massive issue in the credibility of the League. Enforcing FFP is a must. If not we had all better get used to playing for second.

We have spent a lot of money also, but bankrolled by sales. And our squad is underpinned by bargains and Bosmans (Matip, Robbo, Trent, Milner, Shaq, Gomez, Origi).

I’ve never cared what other fans think of the teams I support. There are rivalries and no one ultimately likes seeing another team win. Being the neutrals favourite ultimately means you are shit.

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Old 20-05-19, 01:36 PM   #4550
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That is one thing I dislike about our fanbase. Just because we have 125 years of history. Doesnt mean a club like Chelsea and City cant start to try and generate their own. It takes a long time to become a club like us. What should they do? Keep it boring as fuck and not try to generate it?
Plastic nouveau riche classless gobshites seems like a pretty spot on description to me. The nouveau riche part speaks for itself. They buy success and then their fans and players mock others; they are investigated by UEFA and mock the individuals conducting the investigation and threaten everyone with legal action; they are funded by the proceeds of oil via a corrupt and oppressive autocracy while the fans sing "Are we too rich for you?". Covers the classless part.

The plastic part is the interesting bit. You say what are they supposed to do, but the answer is wait, not make plastic and LED versions of traditional football culture. They want to create the trappings of a big club with tradition and a big fan base, to pretend that they are in the hope that it will help them become that, but they can't fill their seats for important games. It's a facade, and plastic covers it quite succinctly.
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Old 20-05-19, 02:05 PM   #4551
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Plastic nouveau riche classless gobshites seems like a pretty spot on description to me. The nouveau riche part speaks for itself. They buy success and then their fans and players mock others; they are investigated by UEFA and mock the individuals conducting the investigation and threaten everyone with legal action; they are funded by the proceeds of oil via a corrupt and oppressive autocracy while the fans sing "Are we too rich for you?". Covers the classless part.

The plastic part is the interesting bit. You say what are they supposed to do, but the answer is wait, not make plastic and LED versions of traditional football culture. They want to create the trappings of a big club with tradition and a big fan base, to pretend that they are in the hope that it will help them become that, but they can't fill their seats for important games. It's a facade, and plastic covers it quite succinctly.
They are only this far away (fingers about an inch apart) from having an automated fan to fill the empty seats, pre-program them to do a Mexican wave, play the stadium crowd noise through them too.
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Old 20-05-19, 02:06 PM   #4552
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On a related note, I still piss myself at this.

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Old 20-05-19, 03:07 PM   #4553
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I was playing doctors and nurses with my female cousin. I was about 6 or 7, and we were inserting little toy stuffs in our bum holes. Does it count as snogging?
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Old 20-05-19, 03:21 PM   #4554
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been watching that exchange on Twitter - MacKenna has made some great points
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Old 20-05-19, 03:35 PM   #4555
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Great read. Just makes me hate the cunts even more
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Old 20-05-19, 05:17 PM   #4556
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You only have to look at what happens when someone dominates motorsport too much. They put rules in place to even the field.

It's usually around the machinery but money is the only lever in football's case.

Maybe something like only two transfers per window allowed, the rest have to be academy with restrictions on under 23 transfers. That would make things far more competitive and would mean more investment in youth and grassroots football.
City have already invested huge sums in their academy haven't they? Not club generated sums of course
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Old 20-05-19, 05:19 PM   #4557
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been watching that exchange on Twitter - MacKenna has made some great points
He destroyed Brennan didn't he. See they were due to appear on the same radio show tonight but when Brennan found out MacKenna was on it too he pulled out.
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Old 20-05-19, 05:24 PM   #4558
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I've said this before, but I think as a general fan base we come across as a pretty arrogant and entitled bunch.

We have the history, so that makes us better than you.

We have the history and prestige, so we should be winning things.

We have authenticity and class and anyone new to the party is a plastic nouveau riche classless gobshite.

We do things the proper / Liverpool way and that means we're superior to any club that (previously) sold out (Mancs) or were bankrolled by a corrupt gangster / regime.


Plus, add in the fact it'll be 30 years without a league very soon, I'd quite chuckle at anyone else on that run who came so close on so many occasions in that time.
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Old 20-05-19, 05:25 PM   #4559
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Plastic nouveau riche classless gobshites seems like a pretty spot on description to me. The nouveau riche part speaks for itself. They buy success and then their fans and players mock others; they are investigated by UEFA and mock the individuals conducting the investigation and threaten everyone with legal action; they are funded by the proceeds of oil via a corrupt and oppressive autocracy while the fans sing "Are we too rich for you?". Covers the classless part.

The plastic part is the interesting bit. You say what are they supposed to do, but the answer is wait, not make plastic and LED versions of traditional football culture. They want to create the trappings of a big club with tradition and a big fan base, to pretend that they are in the hope that it will help them become that, but they can't fill their seats for important games. It's a facade, and plastic covers it quite succinctly.
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Old 20-05-19, 05:30 PM   #4560
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Perception is always going to be skewed in opposition fans, there is no consensus and ultimately it is all moot. I think we have a likeable honest bunch of players and a manager that everyone (even begrudgingly) loves.

The issue is more that if City have become so strong (Mahrezí a £62m signing not close to their first choice XI, same with Jesus, Sane and Stones all £50m players all not starters, Du Bruyne coming off the bench FFS, Aguero not required) giving them a squad that most of the other teams cannot deal with. If the end result is they realise there is no point in even trying in the games against them (fielding weaker teams to save players for games they feel they can win), then we have a massive issue in the credibility of the League. Enforcing FFP is a must. If not we had all better get used to playing for second.

We have spent a lot of money also, but bankrolled by sales. And our squad is underpinned by bargains and Bosmans (Matip, Robbo, Trent, Milner, Shaq, Gomez, Origi).

Iíve never cared what other fans think of the teams I support. There are rivalries and no one ultimately likes seeing another team win. Being the neutrals favourite ultimately means you are shit.
Our record in the league this year is pretty comparable to City's yet teams came to play against us.

This can only lead to something else being the reason. Bribery is the ONLY logic
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