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Old 15-12-21, 04:46 PM   #2281
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Max was told to cede the position at corner 22. He decided to slow and let Lewis pass on corner 27, just before the DRS zone. Lewis didnít want to go along with such shithouse tactics and slowed, then Max forced the issue and hit the brakes, causing a collision.

Iím not a flag waving Hamilton fan by any means, but I absolutely do not like Verstappen, heís a genuinely dangerous driver and weak sanctions throughout this career have encouraged his behaviour, when they should be doing the opposite for the safety of all concerned.


It sounds like teams won't be able to talk directly to the race director next season which I think is a good thing.

That being said the race director should be someone other than Massi
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Old 15-12-21, 05:08 PM   #2282
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Iím not a flag waving Hamilton fan by any means, but I absolutely do not like Verstappen, heís a genuinely dangerous driver and weak sanctions throughout this career have encouraged his behaviour, when they should be doing the opposite for the safety of all concerned.
The same allegations of recklessness and endangerment were thrown at Lewis as well in his early F1 years. The fearlessness of youth.

I'm still waiting on a Seb Vettel revival, then I can flag wave again!
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Old 15-12-21, 05:51 PM   #2283
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I also still don't see what peoples problem is with them letting the back markers move out the way. It wasn't robbery FFS. Hamilton still had front position and opportunity to pass once he got overtaken. He was unlucky, finally, when all the luck had been with him the rest of the way.

The problem with letting some of the cars through and not others is that it did not treat all drivers on the grid equally. Sainz could have had a shot at the win, all those lapped cars not allowed through were denied a shot at moving up.

Then there's this quote "There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past"
Michael Masi, October 2020

I think both drivers had their share of leniency from the stewards this year and on the whole it balanced out, right up until Latifi crashed... Only one driver benefited from the subsequent decisions
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Old 15-12-21, 06:08 PM   #2284
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The problem with letting some of the cars through and not others is that it did not treat all drivers on the grid equally. Sainz could have had a shot at the win, all those lapped cars not allowed through were denied a shot at moving up.
Equally due to where they were on the track Max could get in the pits & maintain position, whereas Lewis would have lost position under the yellow flag & was then asked to get involved in a 1 lap shoot out on 45 lap tyres at a moments notice. the whole thing is a shambles & Masi should feel very stupid & put simply incompetent with his handling of this race.
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Old 15-12-21, 07:57 PM   #2285
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There’s a good video with all the unedited pit wall discussions with all drivers during the safety car. It shows what an absolute dangerous clusterfuck the whole thing was. The flag went green to restart before everyone had been told what was happening.

Unfortunately, this is going to roll on for months now and could well end up in front of CAS if the FIA can’t come to some sort of agreement with Mercedes. There is a legitimate case to answer here based on the FIA’s own regulations, which contradict themselves within two paragraphs.
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Old 15-12-21, 08:29 PM   #2286
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Thereís a good video with all the unedited pit wall discussions with all drivers during the safety car. It shows what an absolute dangerous clusterfuck the whole thing was. The flag went green to restart before everyone had been told what was happening.

Unfortunately, this is going to roll on for months now and could well end up in front of CAS if the FIA canít come to some sort of agreement with Mercedes. There is a legitimate case to answer here based on the FIAís own regulations, which contradict themselves within two paragraphs.
Link please
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Old 15-12-21, 10:20 PM   #2288
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So basically everyone was expecting the cars to be allowed through. Yeah, only allowing some screwed people chasing for position down the field but had no bearing on the Lewis/Max battle as everyone expected them to unlap themselves. So the only question would be how fixed within the rules is it that the SC needs to do an entire circuit after the cars unlap themselves?
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Old 15-12-21, 11:16 PM   #2289
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only allowing some screwed people chasing for position down the field but had no bearing on the Lewis/Max battle as everyone expected them to unlap themselves.
Wat?
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Old 15-12-21, 11:31 PM   #2290
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Allowing lapped to un-lap themselves was what everyone expected would be the case listening to those transmissions so the fact the cars between Max and Lewis were allowed to pass shouldn't be an issue. The hard done to cars in that scenario were the next batch between Max and the whoever was in 3rd place as they could no longer chase the cars that were allowed to unlap themselves. If all cars had gone through then Max would still have overtaken Lewis.
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Old 16-12-21, 12:32 AM   #2291
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Allowing lapped to un-lap themselves was what everyone expected would be the case listening to those transmissions so the fact the cars between Max and Lewis were allowed to pass shouldn't be an issue. The hard done to cars in that scenario were the next batch between Max and the whoever was in 3rd place as they could no longer chase the cars that were allowed to unlap themselves. If all cars had gone through then Max would still have overtaken Lewis.
If all the cars were let through, there would have been no time for the final lap. So the race would have finished behind the safety car and Hamilton would be the champion. That’s the point.

The rules were changed on the spot to favour a single driver - Verstappen. Literally every other car in the field ended up at a disadvantage as a result. The other cars who should have been able to unlap themselves, couldn’t. Sainz, who should have been able to have a run at Verstappen couldn’t because he had lapped cars still between him and Verstappen. Either all the lapped cars are let through, or none are… those were the two options according to the sporting regulations.

It’s screwy as fuck, and this evenings announcement from the FIA basically admits as much. I’m not saying it was deliberately contrived to give Max the championship… but it was clearly an absolute made up on the spot clusterfuck that has damaged the integrity of the sport.

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Old 16-12-21, 10:31 AM   #2292
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If all the cars were let through, there would have been no time for the final lap. So the race would have finished behind the safety car and Hamilton would be the champion. That’s the point.

The rules were changed on the spot to favour a single driver - Verstappen. Literally every other car in the field ended up at a disadvantage as a result. The other cars who should have been able to unlap themselves, couldn’t. Sainz, who should have been able to have a run at Verstappen couldn’t because he had lapped cars still between him and Verstappen. Either all the lapped cars are let through, or none are… those were the two options according to the sporting regulations.

It’s screwy as fuck, and this evenings announcement from the FIA basically admits as much. I’m not saying it was deliberately contrived to give Max the championship… but it was clearly an absolute made up on the spot clusterfuck that has damaged the integrity of the sport.


There is a general understanding to finish the race under green flags. Clearly there was only really two laps ish after the track was cleared ish. That wasn't enough time to clear all cars and Masi was under pressure from RB. A situation that will clearly not happen going forward.
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Old 16-12-21, 12:14 PM   #2293
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Mercedes will not pursue appeal against F1 title-deciding Abu Dhabi result

Mercedes have decided not to pursue their appeal against the results of the title-deciding Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

Their move follows a decision by governing body the FIA to conduct a "detailed analysis" of the end of the race and an admission it was "tarnishing" Formula 1's image.

Mercedes said they "welcomed" the move and would "hold the FIA accountable".

Max Verstappen's Red Bull overtook Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes on the last lap to clinch the drivers' title.

Mercedes had two protests rejected by F1 officials on Sunday, with the team arguing race director Michael Masi did not apply the rules correctly.

The Australian appeared not to follow standard protocol on restarting the race after a late-race safety-car period. His decisions left Hamilton, who had led for the vast majority of the race and was on course for the world title, as a sitting duck on old tyres, with Verstappen behind him on fresh rubber.

Mercedes had 96 hours after the race in which to lodge their appeal, which would have been heard by the FIA's International Court of Appeal, the final appeal tribunal for international motorsport.

Mercedes said they had been in "constructive dialogue" with the FIA since the race in an attempt to "create clarity for the future".

The team were satisfied with the decision to "thoroughly analyse what happened in Abu Dhabi and to improve the robustness of rules, governance and decision making in Formula 1".

In a lengthy statement, they said they "welcomed" the FIA inviting teams and drivers to take part in the investigation.

Mercedes also offered congratulations to Verstappen and Red Bull, adding: "We would like to express our sincere respect for your achievements this season. You made this F1 championship title fight truly epic."


Why have Mercedes stood down?

Mercedes said that they protested against the results of the race "because the safety car regulations were applied in a new way that affected the race result, after Lewis had been in a commanding lead and on course to win the World Championship".

Masi made two key decisions that appear to be against the rules.

He chose to allow only some of the lapped cars that were interspersed through the order past the leading cars.

He also did not follow the stipulations in the rules around the timing of the restart of the race once the lapped cars had been allowed through.

These decisions meant that not all drivers in the field were treated equally - Verstappen had a clear run at Hamilton, for example, but there were still lapped cars between the Dutchman and third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari - and they ensured the safety car came in a lap earlier than it should have done according to the rules.

The race was restarted for one lap and the Dutchman passed Briton Hamilton to win the race and take the drivers' title.

The FIA initially defended Masi's decisions. The stewards, in rejecting Mercedes' protests on Sunday, claimed the next clause in the rules allowed Masi to do what he did, and cited a rule that gave him authority over the safety car.

But the FIA's decision to launch a review of the events of the race is an effective admission that mistakes were made.

The FIA's statement did not mention Masi, whose actions in the race are at the centre of the controversy. His future as race director is in doubt.


An intervention from Susie Wolff

Mercedes' announcement came an hour or so after Susie Wolff, wife of Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff and boss of the Venturi Formula E team, criticised the FIA in a strongly worded statement of her own.

Wolff said that the events in Abu Dhabi had left her "with a sick feeling".

She said Verstappen and Red Bull were "deserving winners and we always knew it was a strong possibility we may not win - but the way in which Lewis was robbed has left me in utter disbelief".

Wolff added: "The decision of one person within the governing body who applied a rule in a way which has never been done before in F1 singlehandedly decided the F1 drivers' championship.

"Rules are rules; they can't be changed on a whim by one individual at the end of a race."

She concluded: "I hope by March next year there is a governing body with sporting integrity and fairness at its core so I can fall back in love with F1."
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Old 16-12-21, 12:32 PM   #2294
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This thread is just confirming to me that F1 remains shit. I used to love it…!
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Old 17-12-21, 03:40 AM   #2295
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My god the sob stories coming out of Mercedes are laughable. They've had everything go their way season after season and now won't stop crying

Toto and Lewis refusing to go to the ceremony now, Toto's missus is even on it and now they're dangling the "we hope Lewis doesn't retire because of this" carrot.

The question they should be asking themselves, is if the shoe was on the other foot and they had been the ones benefitting, would they have said, " no, this is wrong, they've made the wrong decision, don't overtake him Lewis, its unfair to win like this"....like fuck they would have Toto would've been on the phone screaming at Masi to get the lapped cars out the way.
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Old 17-12-21, 09:40 AM   #2296
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My god the sob stories coming out of Mercedes are laughable. They've had everything go their way season after season and now won't stop crying

Toto and Lewis refusing to go to the ceremony now, Toto's missus is even on it and now they're dangling the "we hope Lewis doesn't retire because of this" carrot.

The question they should be asking themselves, is if the shoe was on the other foot and they had been the ones benefitting, would they have said, " no, this is wrong, they've made the wrong decision, don't overtake him Lewis, its unfair to win like this"....like fuck they would have Toto would've been on the phone screaming at Masi to get the lapped cars out the way.
Are you alright? You seem to be taking this rather strangely.
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Old 17-12-21, 01:26 PM   #2297
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Finding amusement that a team thats literally had everything go their way for 6 years now cant handle one incident going against them is strange?

Yeah im fine pal.
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Old 17-02-22, 03:39 PM   #2298
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Surprise surprise....

Michael Masi removed as F1 race director as part of FIA restructure in wake of Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Michael Masi has been removed as F1 race director as part of a restructure at governing body the FIA in the wake of last year's Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem announced a series of changes as a result of the inquiry into the controversial end to last year's World Championship.

Masi failed to correctly apply the rules in a late safety car period and had a direct impact on the outcome of the title race.

Two men will now alternate in the role, while extra help will be provided to officials.

The new race directors will be Eduardo Freitas, who formerly performed the role in the World Endurance Championship, and Niels Wittich, who did so in the DTM German Touring Car Championship.

Masi will be "offered a new position within the FIA", Ben Sulayem said.

In addition, as part of a wider restructure of race control aimed at providing a calmer environment, direct radio communications between the teams and the race director will no longer be allowed.

In Abu Dhabi, Masi came under pressure from both the Mercedes and Red Bull teams to make decisions in their favour. The huge controversy after the race arose from the fact that he seemed to follow Red Bull's suggestions, to the advantage of their driver Max Verstappen over Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton.

After Masi failed to correctly apply the rules in two ways - over the management of lapped cars and the timing of the restart - Verstappen used his fresh tyres to overtake Hamilton on old ones and win his first world title.

Prior to that, Hamilton had dominated the race and was on course to win a record eighth championship.

An FIA spokesman said the report into the failings at Abu Dhabi would be published at the season-opening race in Bahrain on 19 March.

Teams will still be allowed to put questions to race control, Ben Sulayem said, "according to well defined procedures".

These are expected to be addressed to a new layer of staff in race control, to keep the direct pressure off the race director.

Freitas and Wittich will be assisted by F1 veteran Herbie Blash, who was the deputy race director under former FIA F1 director Charlie Whiting.

Masi assumed the role of race director when Whiting died on the eve of the 2019 F1 season.

The FIA will add a remote race control that will operate in a similar way to the video assistant referee in football.

Ben Sulayem said he had presented this plan to the teams at a meeting of the F1 Commission on Monday, although this is contradicted by insiders who said that only a vague outline was given there.

He added that it had been given the "full support" of the FIA World Council and Senate.

"With this plan, FIA opens the way for a new step forward in Formula 1 refereeing. Without the referees, there is no sport," he said.

"Respect and support of the referees is in the essence of the FIA. That is why these structural changes are crucial in a context of strong development and the legitimate expectations of drivers, teams, manufacturers, organisers, and of course, the fans.

"These changes will enable us to start the 2022 Formula 1 season in the best conditions, and our sport will be even more loved and respected."
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Old 30-06-22, 09:05 AM   #2299
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I see the delightful senhor Piquet is using the Suarez defence for some comments he has made.

BBC Link
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Old 30-06-22, 09:18 AM   #2300
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Suarez defense?

What? That words have different meaning in other languages and cant just be directly translated to English, which white English speaking western do-gooders hellbent on extinguishing their own deep-rooted guilt for their ancestors racist tendencies cant get that through their heads?
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Old 30-06-22, 09:21 AM   #2301
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No idea what Piquet has said BTW. But this "the Suarez defense" shit gets on my tits.

He did absolutely nothing wrong.
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Old 30-06-22, 10:20 AM   #2302
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Yes he did, the racist prick.
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Old 30-06-22, 11:46 AM   #2303
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if you say so Englishman
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Old 30-06-22, 01:42 PM   #2304
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Sorry Mr cultured.

Repeatedly referring to someone’s skin colour during a heated and prolonged argument is racial abuse, even if there’s a ‘nice’ form of usage between friends. Can’t believe people are still wearing Kenny’s T-shirt’s in 2022 when there’s a detailed report on the matter.
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Old 30-06-22, 02:20 PM   #2305
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Bernie Eccleston, eh? Don't want it to seem like I am making light/joknig about dementia, but sure he has onset?

Formula 1 says comments by the sport's former boss Bernie Ecclestone on Vladimir Putin and racism are in "stark contrast" to "modern values".

On Thursday, Ecclestone said he would "take a bullet" for Russia's president.

The 91-year-old, who was removed as chief executive when US group Liberty Media bought F1 in 2017, added that the Russian president's war in Ukraine "wasn't intentional".

More. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61992802
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Old 03-07-22, 07:21 AM   #2306
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Hamilton now trying to cancel old people. Little bit discriminatory if you ask me. But I am getting on a bit.
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Old 03-07-22, 08:34 AM   #2307
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Hamilton now trying to cancel old people. Little bit discriminatory if you ask me. But I am getting on a bit.
What Bernie Iíd take a bullet for Putin and Pique for racist and homophobic comments ? Iíd say hearing a less from both of them would be good.
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Old 03-07-22, 09:23 AM   #2308
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He did make a rather general old people shouldn't be able to have a platform type comment but I suspect it was a toubge in cheek out of context mock of Ecclestone
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Old 03-07-22, 09:54 AM   #2309
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It was about Ecclestone and lesser extent Jackie Stewart. He didn’t name check them as it’ll just stoke it more

Headlines will be headlines though
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Old 03-07-22, 06:58 PM   #2310
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He did make a rather general old people shouldn't be able to have a platform type comment but I suspect it was a toubge in cheek out of context mock of Ecclestone
It was a really dumb thing to say. I'd like to think someone will point it out to him.
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Old 03-07-22, 07:39 PM   #2311
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It was significantly less dumb than what piquet said
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Old 03-07-22, 07:49 PM   #2312
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He was talking about the ‘older voices’ in the sport who spout their archaic attitudes and don’t reflect the sport’s current values, and the fact that people give them time of day. He wasn’t telling you guys not to have opinions
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Old 03-07-22, 08:48 PM   #2313
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Version I read sounded more like censoring older people in general, but I did read the sky news report..
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Old 04-07-22, 12:25 AM   #2314
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I went to Silverstone this weekend. It’s was an incredible time… plus I met Virg and big Sami.
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Old 28-07-22, 11:08 AM   #2315
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Vettel to retire at the end of the season, probably a wise choice I think as he hasn't been on it for a while now regardless of the fact he's not been in a competitive car.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62330316

Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel is to retire from Formula 1 at the end of this season.

The 35-year-old said the decision had been "difficult" and that he had "spent a lot of time thinking about it".

The German said he would "take more time to reflect on what I will focus on next" at the end of the year. He said spending more time with his family was a priority.

Vettel will leave the sport as one of the most successful drivers in history.

Only Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher and Juan Manuel Fangio have won more world titles than Vettel, and only Hamilton and Schumacher have more than his 53 race wins.

He added: "Today is not about saying goodbye. Rather, it is about saying thank you - to everyone - not least to the fans, without whose passionate support F1 could not exist."

Vettel, who won four consecutive drivers' titles with Red Bull from 2010 to 2013, said he had "really enjoyed" his time with Aston Martin in 2021 and 2022, adding: "Although our results have not been as good as we had hoped, it is very clear to me that everything is being put together that a team needs to race at the very highest level for years to come.

"I hope that the work I did last year and am continuing to do this year will be helpful in the development of a team that will win in the future, and I will work as hard as I can between now and the end of the year with that goal in mind, giving as always my best in the last 10 races."

Aston Martin had wanted to keep Vettel next season, but he decided he wanted to step away from the sport.

In recent years he has become an outspoken campaigner on social and environmental issues.

Vettel has always eschewed social media, but he launched an Instagram account on Thursday just before his retirement announcement, with his biography there describing him as "public figure".

In a video on the account, he said of his retirement: "My best race is still to come."

Aston Martin have made no announcement about a replacement for Vettel next season.

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