It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892

Go Back   est1892 > Football > Liverpool FC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-22, 02:35 PM   #241
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by red g View Post
If Thiago's injury is a hamstring I wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in a much needed midfielder before the window closes.
I really hope so but I won't hold my breath.

It's something that we should have anticipated and boxed off already. The most obvious problem with our top class team is we are lacking in midfield and we have players currently in our squad that cannot be relied upon to stay fit. We don't address these issues and we get punished.
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:35 PM   #242
Fosterbloke
Run the Jewels
 
Fosterbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 37,548
Totally out-fought and out-thought.
__________________
Fuck off.
Fosterbloke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:36 PM   #243
Fredo
Not to be taken seriously
 
Fredo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 34,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by danperkins View Post
But he's absolutely spot on Nigel. You can't be an apologist every fucking time. We should not be losing to the likes of Fulham. We lost the league by a fanny hair last season, a draw like this can be the difference between winning and losing a league championship when you are up against Man City.

He’s not spot on to throw his toys out of the pram on the first day of the season, like you do.

Anyway, enjoy the moaning, I’ll be spending the day in the sun.
__________________
Are we winning?
Fredo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:39 PM   #244
labourRed
Paisley
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 10,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
You’re becoming more and more like an old moaning fool.

We’re still undercooked as our pre season has been extended well into the season. Fulham matched and outplayed us in terms of intensity. No big deal losing 2 points at this stage.
To win the league you can afford about 6 draws and 3 defeats give or take. We've absorbed one of those already and that's not ideal.

Bobby though. Fucked if I can see what he adds these days.
labourRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:39 PM   #245
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 55,809
I think he’ll come good, but is Harvey really ready?
__________________
Abolish the Monarchy.

Last edited by Kenneth; 06-08-22 at 02:41 PM.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:39 PM   #246
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishnev View Post


Midfield depth a worry although Elliott looks ready for me. Bobby form a real issue……… that big fucking oaf caused us the world of problems and he’ll do fuck all for the rest of the season. Both Matip and VVD were rattled, casual Trent is infuriating as he is so much better than that

Nunez while still raw is involved in everything and creates mayhem - you need to play him. Thiago injury so predictable and we’ll do nothing…….. fair play to Fulham who shithoused all game, got everything from the ref and outfought us

Gone are the days when it wrecks my weekend but boy God I was annoyed during the game
there were several poor performances, Firmino being shite was not a surprise for me, the last 3 seasons he's been below par, Nunez is raw for sure but he is a live wire and he is unpredictable.

Thiago getting injured was so predictable, same as Keita and Ox being out. I am gobsmacked that we haven't got another quality midfielder in. I like Elliot but he is still a kid and I'm not sure he's ready to be a starter in our side. Credit to Fulham, they worked their bollox off and got stuck in and grinder that result out but I'm livid with our performance and personnel issues.
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.

Last edited by danperkins; 06-08-22 at 02:45 PM.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:39 PM   #247
Bender
Bite my shiny metal ass!
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,859
First game of the new season ....if the team was going to have a crap performance best be it now as Klopp will be tearing a lot of new ass holes today
Bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:40 PM   #248
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 55,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
He’s not spot on to throw his toys out of the pram on the first day of the season, like you do.

Anyway, enjoy the moaning, I’ll be spending the day in the sun.
What are you talking about? What toys? I said we were crap, that Milner made a big difference and that Fulham cheated a lot. So shove it.
__________________
Abolish the Monarchy.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:41 PM   #249
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
2-2

Fair play to Fulham. They were well up for that today.

Midfield still an area for concern. Can't build around Thiago.

What is a bigger concern than Thigao picking up knocks/injuries is that our back up midfielders pick up a lot of knocks and injuries and Keita, the one that would be most likely to stand in for Thiago, is out more than Thiago.

Thought we needed two midfielders since last Janury and nothing has happened to change my mind now.

Still think we need a starter to come in at RCm, a Barella level player if not Barella himself, and also a Laimer type player to be one of the immediate back ups, the sort that can play well in a number of CM spots and that is mobile, technically good and able to get stuck in if needs be.


As for today. We played badly, probably deserved to lose on the balance of play, yet still came away with a point. Also prefer us to have a bad performance and some injury bad luck in early August whilst the wndow is still open than it happening in early September
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:42 PM   #250
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
He’s not spot on to throw his toys out of the pram on the first day of the season, like you do.

Anyway, enjoy the moaning, I’ll be spending the day in the sun.
He's calling a spade a spade, nobody is throwing toys just stating the obvious which you are completely blind to.

Also I'm in Hvar so I ll be spending the day in the sun and pool in my speedos, so enjoy your back garden
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:46 PM   #251
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by danperkins View Post
He's calling a spade a spade, nobody is throwing toys just stating the obvious which you are completely blind to.

Also I'm in Hvar so I ll be spending the day in the sun and pool in my speedos, so enjoy your back garden



__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:49 PM   #252
pondus
Dalglish
 
pondus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,197
What’s the point with fucking VAR if they can’t see the Mitrobitch dive? Just bin it. Fucking useless cunts the lot of them.
pondus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:49 PM   #253
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:53 PM   #254
el matador
Facing the firing squad for suggesting Brian McBride as a transfer target!
 
el matador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,832
Interesting game. We were outfought by an inferior team but in the end you have to be happy with a point because we didn’t deserve one. Plenty of work for jurgen to do.
__________________
[B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]
el matador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:55 PM   #255
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by el matador View Post
Interesting game. We were outfought by an inferior team but in the end you have to be happy with a point because we didn’t deserve one. Plenty of work for jurgen to do.

Not seen you in a bit. Welcome back fella
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:56 PM   #256
el matador
Facing the firing squad for suggesting Brian McBride as a transfer target!
 
el matador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,832
Been busy with business and young family. You guys ok?
__________________
[B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]
el matador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 02:58 PM   #257
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
I'm still sweetness and an all round delight.



The rest on here are still a gaggle of muppets though.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 03:26 PM   #258
Venton
Paisley
 
Venton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
Milner was the difference between a draw and a loss imo.

Shite generally, especially the back five. VVD looked like Maguire when conceding the pen. Not an encouraging start, especially with another injury.

Fulham might do alright because they’ve worked out how to play PL refs quickly. Loads of ridiculous decisions for them today.
Agree about Milner, although it's a bit strange that we need someone of his advancing years to get us going. I also wonder if it's time to start trying Trent in midfield given our injury woes.
__________________
Experimental music, Metropolitan foodstuffs, Mexican wrestler art, London suburbia, wry whimsy, fansy pants flim flam lad
Venton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 03:31 PM   #259
Catrin
Fagan
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,311
Out of possession they were very much on it and quite physical. A lot of borderline wrestling going on. In possession they looked pretty good to be fair. A better final ball a few times and things could have got worse for us. Our passing at times was uncharacteristically sloppy. There was a brief period where Thiago, Virg and Joel were passing the ball amongst themselves and several successive passes were off. Quite a wtf passage of play.
First half particularly Trent and Mo seeded to struggle against their intense pressing. Darwin coming on seemed to draw the attention away from them a bit and gave them more space.
Overall I think it was down to rustiness rather than complacency but they need to snap out of it quick.
__________________
Never knowingly optimistic
Catrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 03:33 PM   #260
Catrin
Fagan
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
I'm still sweetness and an all round delight.



The rest on here are still a gaggle of muppets though.
I guess that makes me Miss Piggy
__________________
Never knowingly optimistic
Catrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 03:51 PM   #261
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catrin View Post
I guess that makes me Miss Piggy


Your words not mine


Though you would not have been my first choice to be Miss Piggy from the current lot on here
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 04:28 PM   #262
Mr Pink
Fagan
 
Mr Pink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
What are you talking about? What toys? I said we were crap, that Milner made a big difference and that Fulham cheated a lot. So shove it.

it’s hardly a surprise that people will be “moaning” in a match thread after we drop points in the opening game, to a newly promoted team, especially after that performance… better to be moaning about the game than moaning about other posters moaning.
__________________
I don't tip
Mr Pink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 04:30 PM   #263
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Klopp in the after game interview saying Thiago's injury looks like it may be a bad one.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 04:36 PM   #264
Pepe79
Shankly
 
Pepe79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,112
__________________
.
.
.
.
Pepe79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 04:54 PM   #265
Irishnev
Paisley
 
Irishnev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Klopp in the after game interview saying Thiago's injury looks like it may be a bad one.
Light in midfield, irreplaceable Thiago = guaranteed injury. Milner and Hendo starting games for the foreseeable…….Milner did well coming on today but we shouldn’t be relying on him
Irishnev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:18 PM   #266
Charly
Shankly
 
Charly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,474
Is Milner really able to press for 90 minutes twice a week? A good option from the bench, but should be temporary starter at best.

Really only leaves Jones. Carv and Elliott dont seem like midielders to me.
It is a bit worrying our lack of depth there. many of us were thinking that this time last year, but we got lucky with injuries.

I have thought Firmino is done as a top level striker for a while. I keep hoping he will prove me wrong though. He could have been an option for midfield. Dunno though. Just not sure why its not working for him. Too many injuries? Maybe he just needs games, but I dont see him getting too many.
__________________
In the beginning, Fowler created the Heaven and the Earth.
Charly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:21 PM   #267
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,363
Let's be honest that was as bad a performance as we've seen for a while, Fulham were by far the better side, we only played for about 15mins in total. That said if they hadn't got that pen I think we would have won, I thought we were building some momentum and it came just at the wrong time. I also thought it was a fairly soft one, silly from VVD to dangle a leg though.

I knew Nunez wouldn't start but I have to say I am baffled as to why, I know Klopp brings in new players slowly to learn the system etc, but the reality is that the system is completely different with Nunez playing in the front 3 to Firmino playing there. I like Bobby, he's done alot for us over the years but the reality now is that when everyone is fit he's a backup. I would be amazed if when everyone is fit the front three isn't Diaz, Nunez and Salah. I think Nunez is ready to start and getting everyone used to that system is something we need to do sooner rather than later.

Midfield today was a big problem they were out thought and out fought. We improved significantly when Milner came on, but I don't see him being able to put those performances in on a regular basis. We are going to E playing twice a week most of the time until the WC, no way he can do that. I am disappointed we didn't sign an new midfielder in the summer, and unless this injury puts Thiago out for much of the season I don't think it changes transfer plans. It's a big opportunity for someone now to step up, Elliott most likely, let's hope he's up to it.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

Last edited by Exiled_red; 06-08-22 at 05:23 PM.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:33 PM   #268
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charly View Post
Is Milner really able to press for 90 minutes twice a week? A good option from the bench, but should be temporary starter at best.

Really only leaves Jones. Carv and Elliott dont seem like midielders to me.
It is a bit worrying our lack of depth there. many of us were thinking that this time last year, but we got lucky with injuries.

I have thought Firmino is done as a top level striker for a while. I keep hoping he will prove me wrong though. He could have been an option for midfield. Dunno though. Just not sure why its not working for him. Too many injuries? Maybe he just needs games, but I dont see him getting too many.
I think Carvalho is a forward at least for now. Jones and Elliott are midfielders but are still a little tactically naive as they are still learning the game I think they require the right players alongside them for the system to work. I feel Elliott is probably the further ahead in his development of the two because I feel we are trying to mould Jones into a different type of player to what I feel he naturally wants to be. If Thiago is out for any length of time we need at least one of them to step up.

Firmino is 5th choice now for me, front three are going to be Diaz, Nunez and Salah, with Jota coming in fairly frequently. I think the style of play we used has evolved and the role he played isn't as needed or as effective as it used to be.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:41 PM   #269
Pepe79
Shankly
 
Pepe79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,112
Klopp also saying that Naby won’t definitely be back for next week.
__________________
.
.
.
.
Pepe79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:48 PM   #270
Tribute
Shankly
 
Tribute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,690
Similar issue to the defensive injury issues we had a couple of seasons ago. Don’t we ever learn… ?!

Ox should have been sold pre-injury and a solid midfielder brought in to shore up our options. Thiago is a worldie, but always prone to long spells on the sidelines…
Tribute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 05:51 PM   #271
npinn001
Benitez
 
npinn001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribute View Post
Similar issue to the defensive injury issues we had a couple of seasons ago. Don’t we ever learn… ?!

Ox should have been sold pre-injury and a solid midfielder brought in to shore up our options. Thiago is a worldie, but always prone to long spells on the sidelines…
Agree. They should have shipped him out right away. But it does feel like we never planned to buy a midfielder either way. Normally we would line up the new player and the outgoing one at the same time, but we just don't seem to be in the mix.
npinn001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 06:16 PM   #272
Fuzzy
Fagan
 
Fuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,819
That Paddy Power video sure aged well
Fuzzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 06:20 PM   #273
el matador
Facing the firing squad for suggesting Brian McBride as a transfer target!
 
el matador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,832
This team hasn’t been phased by too much over the last few years but occasionally we do struggle against physical teams. We wanted Tchouameni for a reason and just because he went to RM doesn’t negate the need for that type of physical presence. With respect to the likes of Keita, Milner and the younger ones like Elliott and Curtis jones the drop off from the first choice midfield is huge. JK can say we have a lot of midfielders but how many does he actually count on.
__________________
[B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]
el matador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 06:42 PM   #274
danperkins
Martin Skrtel can win a game of Connect Four in three moves
 
danperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by el matador View Post
This team hasn’t been phased by too much over the last few years but occasionally we do struggle against physical teams. We wanted Tchouameni for a reason and just because he went to RM doesn’t negate the need for that type of physical presence. With respect to the likes of Keita, Milner and the younger ones like Elliott and Curtis jones the drop off from the first choice midfield is huge. JK can say we have a lot of midfielders but how many does he actually count on.
__________________
When in doubt, mumble.
danperkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 10:06 PM   #275
Big-Red-Ed
Fagan
 
Big-Red-Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,562
All of our midfield 3 were bang average. Only Milner looked up to speed. Elliot showed glimpses.

YNWA
Big-Red-Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 11:03 PM   #276
SB
Paisley
 
SB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,216
It’s the hope that kills us. Shit display & running out of numbers in midfield in the first week of the new season is unforgivable imo.
__________________
No 1 Klopp supporter
SB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 11:25 PM   #277
Jaco_Pastorious
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB View Post
It’s the hope that kills us. Shit display & running out of numbers in midfield in the first week of the new season is unforgivable imo.

Nah it's hope that carries us along.

We get written off over and over, and time after time we find ways to scrape by until we find our stride again.


It is not great to already be missing four midfielders one game into a new season but as said earlier in the thread, better to have a few issues when we still have the time to do something about those issues than have the issues happen at the start of September and then have no choice at all until the WC break.
__________________
I don't hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around.
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-22, 11:48 PM   #278
SB
Paisley
 
SB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Nah it's hope that carries us along.

We get written off over and over, and time after time we find ways to scrape by until we find our stride again.


It is not great to already be missing four midfielders one game into a new season but as said earlier in the thread, better to have a few issues when we still have the time to do something about those issues than have the issues happen at the start of September and then have no choice at all until the WC break.
I’m just not sure we will do anything though which is what worries me. I’m hoping we started negotiating with someone when Ox went down
__________________
No 1 Klopp supporter
SB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-22, 12:45 AM   #279
baitman
Daddy day care
 
baitman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB View Post
I’m just not sure we will do anything though which is what worries me. I’m hoping we started negotiating with someone when Ox went down
If we only started any negotiations based on Ox breaking down then we would be dick heads.

Ox, Keita, thiago, Jones, all unreliable, milner and henderson can't cover all the games.
we have had plenty of bodies but often few are available. Once some of our first choice midfield is out then we are struggling.

Carvalho will be great, and elliot should also be really good, but it's too much to play both and expect them to anchor our teams challenge.
__________________
removing all the weak links makes us stronger

too many gutless players, no beef or desire. pussies everywhere... sack them all, but not VVD or Fabinho

Last edited by baitman; 07-08-22 at 06:33 AM.
baitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-22, 06:24 AM   #280
SB
Paisley
 
SB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitman View Post
If we only started any negotiations based on Ox breaking down then we would be dick heads.

Ox, Keith, thiago, Jones, all unreliable, miner and henderson can't cover all the games.
we have had plenty of bodies but often few are available. Once some of our first choice midfield is out then we are struggling.

Carvalho will be great, and elliot should also be really good, but it's too much to play both and expect them to anchor our teams challenge.
I’m basing that on Klopp saying he’s happy with the squad & will only go into the market IF someone leaves OR we get an injury. That was before Sir Getscrockedalot got his latest injury & yeah we all know about the rest of our midfielders injury records.
__________________
No 1 Klopp supporter
SB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > Football > Liverpool FC

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.