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Old 21-08-06, 10:35 AM   #41
enema of the state
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It wasnt a court of law guys it was on a cricket pitch.

the umpire doesnt have to have to see anyone tamper with the ball, he just has to be satisfied - in his own opinion as the sole arbiter - that the state ball has become altered in a way that is explicable only by alteration by the fielding side. then he applies the rules...change the ball and 5 run penalty..thats just the rules.

i agree that it might have been better had the playing conditions stipulated that you just change the ball and then have an inquest to see if theres any evidence, inforcing further penalties if there is but thats NOT the rules the game was played under. the time for quibbling over that was before play started.

I accept that the umpires could have foreseen the fallout and handled mtters more delicately but thats up to them. as i see it they applied the law correctly if insensitively.

NOTHING had happened to that ball since the peterson wicket at which time the ball would have been checked. Whatever changes were evident at the time of the penalty must have been new and werent affected by any collision with concreter or advertising hoardings etc.

what interested me was the footage of hair watching mohamed asif shine the all. watch how asif does it - large exaggerated swing of the arm against his thigh/pockt region. THATS NOT how you shine cricket ball. i suspect he has something abrasive within or under his whites that hes scuffing the ball. even if he was SCUFFING the ball by that action against his whites, thats illegal. its not scratching the ball with a bottle top but its illegal and a 5 run penalty plus change of ball doent seem unresonable to me.

you HAVE to enforce the ball change there and then in case the fielding side profits by taking a load of wickets. its unreasonble to expect the umpires to act differently on that point

being called a cheat is a terrible insult and it is probably an unfair label for this pakistan team - at worst they are guilty of pushing the fringes of the law. people will have little sympathy however and this is based on an un derstandable prejudice that pakistani cricketers (and indeed umpires) cheat
This occured for many years in many ways.

this time i saw a pakistan side refuse to play when they were winning. the last time i saw that mr miandad - perhaps the biggest cheat ive ever seen play - declined to take the field in support of shakoor rana - in reality england were well on top and that was a dishonest and cynical ploy to avoid defeat.

if there is a prejudice against pakistan cricketers then its sad but it has origins in real past misdeeds
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Old 21-08-06, 11:16 AM   #42
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I know this adds nothing to the debate but I couldn't help noticing this morning that ECB Chief Executive David Collier:



is just a fatter version of this knob:

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Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



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Old 21-08-06, 12:30 PM   #43
Anfield Mole
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If anyone has a Pakistani girlfriend, you ought to ask them to tamper with your balls like a Pakistani.
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Old 21-08-06, 01:27 PM   #44
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Haha
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Old 22-08-06, 12:31 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enema of the state
It wasnt a court of law guys it was on a cricket pitch.

the umpire doesnt have to have to see anyone tamper with the ball, he just has to be satisfied - in his own opinion as the sole arbiter - that the state ball has become altered in a way that is explicable only by alteration by the fielding side. then he applies the rules...change the ball and 5 run penalty..thats just the rules.

i agree that it might have been better had the playing conditions stipulated that you just change the ball and then have an inquest to see if theres any evidence, inforcing further penalties if there is but thats NOT the rules the game was played under. the time for quibbling over that was before play started.

I accept that the umpires could have foreseen the fallout and handled mtters more delicately but thats up to them. as i see it they applied the law correctly if insensitively.

NOTHING had happened to that ball since the peterson wicket at which time the ball would have been checked. Whatever changes were evident at the time of the penalty must have been new and werent affected by any collision with concreter or advertising hoardings etc.

what interested me was the footage of hair watching mohamed asif shine the all. watch how asif does it - large exaggerated swing of the arm against his thigh/pockt region. THATS NOT how you shine cricket ball. i suspect he has something abrasive within or under his whites that hes scuffing the ball. even if he was SCUFFING the ball by that action against his whites, thats illegal. its not scratching the ball with a bottle top but its illegal and a 5 run penalty plus change of ball doent seem unresonable to me.

you HAVE to enforce the ball change there and then in case the fielding side profits by taking a load of wickets. its unreasonble to expect the umpires to act differently on that point

being called a cheat is a terrible insult and it is probably an unfair label for this pakistan team - at worst they are guilty of pushing the fringes of the law. people will have little sympathy however and this is based on an un derstandable prejudice that pakistani cricketers (and indeed umpires) cheat
This occured for many years in many ways.

this time i saw a pakistan side refuse to play when they were winning. the last time i saw that mr miandad - perhaps the biggest cheat ive ever seen play - declined to take the field in support of shakoor rana - in reality england were well on top and that was a dishonest and cynical ploy to avoid defeat.

if there is a prejudice against pakistan cricketers then its sad but it has origins in real past misdeeds
Precisely
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Old 22-08-06, 05:12 PM   #46
enema of the state
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not to mention shahid afridi's gardening antics on the recent tour. I find it a bit rich that the pakistani team are so self righteously indignant over the fact they have been charged with "cheating". One of their stars was caught doing exactly that in front of the whole world just a couple of months ago! waqar has already been punished by the icc for the same offence

they need to get over themselves instead of turning it into an international incident. if you cheat you should incurr the stated penalty. it is not a slur on the nation of pakistan. the accusations in hair's direction constitute "playing the race card".
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