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Old 10-09-18, 05:30 PM   #1041
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Could you give us some context what is meant by a bypassed defender?
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Old 10-09-18, 05:41 PM   #1042
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Could you give us some context what is meant by a bypassed defender?
A long read, but if you just hone in on the bits in red it explains it quite nicely.

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Possession, passes completed, shots on target, corners – just a few statistics so often presented on TV, online, in your newspaper, in your betting app or wherever when it comes to football, let alone during this World Cup. This was “weird” but also “kind of the starting point,” former Bayer Leverkusen and Germany midfielder Stefan Reinartz tells i, because “these statistics have almost no correlation to the end result”. If you had been watching Euro 2016 on German TV, you would have heard about Packing, a statistic developed by the then freshly retired Reinartz as he transitioned into the world of statistics as managing director and co-founder of Impect.

You have to go back a further two years to its genesis. Having been on the panel at the Sports University in Cologne for a talk, he asked one professor: “[Does it make] sense that pass completion has any significance to winning a game? Because I could play the ball back to my goalkeeper 100 times and have a perfect ratio.”

It made him realise: “It’s ultimately about retaining possession whilst getting past the opponents. The opponent is our problem and to solve it, I want to get past the opponent with the ball.”

Influence

Based in Cologne, Reinartz and Impect focus mostly on providing data to clubs as opposed to supplying media. Coaches such as Domenico Tedesco, who finished second with Schalke last season in Germany, and new PSG coach Thomas Tuchel, both use it in their team and opponent analyses. As Reinartz explains, Packing measures each time a forward pass or dribble is completed before, crucially, counting up how many opponents have been taken out or bypassed in the process. As an example, John Stones were to find Harry Kane with a forward pass against Sweden which Kane controlled successfully and that pass took out eight outfield opponents both Stones, as the player of the pass, and Kane, having received it, get a point for every player that was bypassed in the process.

To the England team’s overall tally of bypassed opponents eight would be added too. The correlation from Impect’s work shows that teams who on average get more points than their opponents in a game will win between 30-40 per cent of the time. Narrow that down to just the opponents’ defenders that you take out in a game and the correlation jumps to 60 per cent – something that no traditional statistic can rival, apart from goals scored of course. Eight of the teams making up the top nine in ‘net bypassed defenders’ for the World Cup group stages qualified for the last 16. That tells you something more about the correlation already but then consider that all those eight teams qualified without exception for the quarter-finals.

Belgium lead the way

Russia, Croatia and England did all win on penalties but Reinartz’s fellow managing director at Impect, Lukas Keppler, emphasises that they are looking for “way more than just the two numbers of bypassed opponents and defenders”. “We are also evaluating the interceptions or ‘turnover’ of each player, as well as the abilities as a pass receiver. We try to provide the most accurate analysis of a performance, but of course, we cannot measure everything, For example, how good is the mental strength or mentality of a player? That is something which is hard to evaluate objectively.” The “bypassed defenders” statistic though has certainly given a very good indication at the tournament in Russia of who is more likely to win.

Of the 56 games at the tournament so far in Russia, 12 have been drawn. From those remaining 44 games, only four were won by the team who bypassed fewer defenders i.e. in games with a result, the team who bypassed more defenders won 91 per cent of the time. The importance in that jump between bypassing defenders and bypassing opponents can be seen in how Germany’s Jerome Boateng and Toni Kroos are first and second in the tournament standings for the opponents category but are not in the top five when it comes to taking out defenders, led by Belgium’s Dries Mertens and Thomas Meunier. Similarly, Neymar tops the statistic when it comes to just receiving the ball but isn’t in the top five when it comes to doing so behind defenders, with Michy Batshuayi on top. One of the points with Packing then? Where you play and receive the ball is vital. England fans might be worried that Sweden’s defence has been bypassed the least but Keppler notes that Gareth Southgate’s defence has also been one of the best in the tournament in this regard.

Packing in the Premier League

England and more specifically the Premier League is a particular point of interest for Keppler. Next season, they will be working with data from the Premier League and the Championship for the first time and, as a result, teams in England with co-founder Jens Hegeler playing for Bristol City. Even though they currently work with 10 Bundesliga outfits, Reinartz says that pitching to England is easier than in Germany. Impect are already in talks with two unnamed top six Premier League clubs. “In England, there’s much, much more data orientated work being done. That’s an advantage for us because in Germany we don’t just have to present our product, we have to show that we have the ability to process the data in the first place.”

Does Packing ‘explain’ football?

Reinartz made three appearances for the German national team but injury forced him into an early retirement (Getty Images) The launch in Germany back in June 2016 caused a decent amount of hype, spearheaded by TV pundit and ex-Bayern midfielder Mehmet Scholl being particularly enthusiastic. But the binary manner in which it was put across didn’t help, according to Reinartz. “The expectations were too big and the expectations were too big when Mehmet Scholl immediately said: ‘That explains football.’ “It explains a lot to do with football but when someone says: ‘Hey. We’ve got it! Now that is the truth!’ You can understand the reaction that people say: ‘Ah. It doesn’t explain everything,’” says Reinartz. “That is automatically more negative than when you say: ‘Hey, look, this is something which is very interesting. It’s something which you can use for a lot of things.'”
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Old 11-09-18, 08:40 AM   #1043
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A long read, but if you just hone in on the bits in red it explains it quite nicely.
Thank you for cutting me down from the noose
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Old 12-09-18, 07:12 AM   #1044
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Interesting that it's not massively different from the current league table positions.
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Old 09-10-18, 01:19 AM   #1045
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we've tightened up defensively, mostly thanks to VVD and his steading the ship, helping gomez find his feet and generally bossing things.
alisson looks great, calm and powerful when needed.

the midfield seems to have gone on holiday early, its been looking like milner has been holding things together, but its not possible to run the middle of the pitch on your own.

our attack has looked very leggy and we dont seem to have our pressing game operating as it should.
everyone is struggling.
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Old 09-10-18, 06:25 AM   #1046
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We could really have done with a fit Lallana in midfield.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:10 AM   #1047
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To me it feels as though the start of the season Klopp told the guys who weren't at the world cup that we really needed them to get us through the early weeks of the season. The likes of Milner, Wijnaldum, VVD, Robertson and Gomez were ace, now it feels as though the guys from the WC should be back at it but for some reason tiredness or whatever it just doesn't seem to have happened
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Old 09-10-18, 07:16 AM   #1048
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That Nations league isn't helping with players coming and going. It's a massive bore fest and totally unnecessary. It would be far better if international football was an amateur sport and they took their players from an alternative pool
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Old 09-10-18, 07:48 AM   #1049
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we've tightened up defensively, mostly thanks to VVD and his steading the ship, helping gomez find his feet and generally bossing things.
alisson looks great, calm and powerful when needed.

the midfield seems to have gone on holiday early, its been looking like milner has been holding things together, but its not possible to run the middle of the pitch on your own.

our attack has looked very leggy and we dont seem to have our pressing game operating as it should.
everyone is struggling.
The midfield hasn't been very good going forward but Gini has been excellent in most (not all) games.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:50 AM   #1050
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That Nations league isn't helping with players coming and going. It's a massive bore fest and totally unnecessary. It would be far better if international football was an amateur sport and they took their players from an alternative pool
It's a joke of a competition.
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Old 09-10-18, 08:12 AM   #1051
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That Nations league isn't helping with players coming and going. It's a massive bore fest and totally unnecessary. It would be far better if international football was an amateur sport and they took their players from an alternative pool
absolute farce it is.
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Old 09-10-18, 01:08 PM   #1052
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Our defence in the League has become a thing of beauty.

The thing we were criticised for continually over the years is no longer an issue, and it definitely isn't given enough credit.

In the League the last goal we conceded at home was 9 and a bit games ago to Antonio in a 4-1 thrashing of West Ham. In February. 9 plus games without conceding in the League at Anfield is incredible. 931 minutes.
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Old 09-10-18, 03:52 PM   #1053
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Old 09-10-18, 04:40 PM   #1054
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Mocky McMockerson
Nah, fuck that

I have no power over this stuff.

If we believe in jinxing and putting the mockers on stuff, then there is not much left to discuss.

To this point our League defensive record is amazing, if that changes in the next game I'll blame the players rather than this post
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Old 09-10-18, 05:32 PM   #1055
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Nah, fuck that

I have no power over this stuff.

If we believe in jinxing and putting the mockers on stuff, then there is not much left to discuss.

To this point our League defensive record is amazing, if that changes in the next game I'll blame the players rather than this post
Steady
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Old 09-10-18, 08:07 PM   #1056
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Steady
Was written in a state of stable tranquility.
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Old 09-10-18, 10:14 PM   #1057
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Think someone is reading the forum

Talking about our poor non scoring midfield...
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2018/1...ust-be-solved/
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Old 09-10-18, 10:35 PM   #1058
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Nah, fuck that

I have no power over this stuff.

If we believe in jinxing and putting the mockers on stuff, then there is not much left to discuss.

To this point our League defensive record is amazing, if that changes in the next game I'll blame the players rather than this post
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Old 07-11-18, 01:46 AM   #1059
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gone to shit...
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Old 07-11-18, 08:04 AM   #1060
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I'm not really sure what our style of play is this season to be honest.
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Old 07-11-18, 08:37 AM   #1061
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Without a designated creative midfielder, we look lacking. If Shaq is that player we need him in. Perhaps keita can do that job too?
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Old 07-11-18, 09:06 AM   #1062
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Awaiting Tee's post about Fekir.
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Old 07-11-18, 10:35 AM   #1063
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Last season when Coutinho left our midfield played a magnificent high pressing dynamic style, getting the ball forward to the front 3 as quick as possible, and supported by the attacking full backs, so we compensated for lack of creativity.
This season howeverour midfield has struggled for whatever reason, and the balls to the front 3 are being played all too often from the full back or defensive areas.
What concerns me more than anything else is the sheer lack of basic footballing ability across the team, from controlling a ball to playing a nice fluid passing game, we just seem inept at both.
Personally I do think losing The Brain Buvac has made an impact because the performances since his last game (win v Roma at Anfield) have not in the main been the same.
Fekir would have been a potential solution in midfield but now we have Shaqiri who can play that role, yet we choose not to even take him to arguably what was the most important game of the season so far.
Something just isn’t right and we can all speculate but only Klopp knows where we are losing our way and why.
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Old 07-11-18, 10:49 AM   #1064
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Last season when Coutinho left our midfield played a magnificent high pressing dynamic style, getting the ball forward to the front 3 as quick as possible, and supported by the attacking full backs, so we compensated for lack of creativity.
This season howeverour midfield has struggled for whatever reason, and the balls to the front 3 are being played all too often from the full back or defensive areas.
What concerns me more than anything else is the sheer lack of basic footballing ability across the team, from controlling a ball to playing a nice fluid passing game, we just seem inept at both.
Personally I do think losing The Brain Buvac has made an impact because the performances since his last game (win v Roma at Anfield) have not in the main been the same.
Fekir would have been a potential solution in midfield but now we have Shaqiri who can play that role, yet we choose not to even take him to arguably what was the most important game of the season so far.
Something just isn’t right and we can all speculate but only Klopp knows where we are losing our way and why.
Correct. The front 3 look isolated. (they are also playing shit as well like). But the midfield dynamic is more conservative and defensive this season... intentionally I think.

We dont attack with any pace or numbers. Also the front 3 are coming too deep with their backs to goal so there is no option of the diagonal balls over the top which caught so many teams out last season with salah and mane running on to them.

When the opposition are not made to turn and face their own goal it is far far too easy to defend. And dont get me started on Milners fucking shit show of terrible crosses to forwards who are not renowned for headed goals.
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Old 07-11-18, 10:54 AM   #1065
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Tee

In Honigstein's book, Klopp was the most active in terms of drills, planning, tactics etc, which is why I've been a lot calmer on Buvac's departure. However, it's like the timing of his departure has coincided with a change in style for us. It could be a coincidence.

Our style is definitely slower, and I don't know if Klopp has decided to be more compact, as he's said before that offence wins you games, defence wins you titles. I think there's still an issue with squad depth, which is why the reins have been tightened. We still need more explosive cover in the forward areas, because our midfield is well stocked, but they need to release the ball quickly too.
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Old 07-11-18, 03:35 PM   #1066
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Without a designated creative midfielder, we look lacking. If Shaq is that player we need him in. Perhaps keita can do that job too?
IMO he's by far the best option we have, we left ourselves short there which is not really a shocker with LFC. But Klopp seems to be reluctant to play Shaq regularly even though we do seem a better attacking side with him in it.
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Old 13-11-18, 08:11 AM   #1067
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Could be many factors but main one is I think is 90% of PL teams are now parking the bus against us.

Yet unlike last season we are keeping clean sheets so are not conceding the first goal which then made the bus a double decker. We dropped points in lots of games we dominated last season. Hasn’t happened once so far this season.

We are having to adapt - in another 6 months out play will probably evolve into something else. Something possibly better than we’ve seen so far.

A David Silva player would be very welcome to help that.

On Shaq, I think all managers would like that kind of quality and power as an option from the bench against tired legs. I think that’s a reason Klopp is reluctant to play all his big guns from kick off. Leaves him short of options to affect the game later if needed.

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Old 13-11-18, 11:48 AM   #1068
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Last season, we played with a rather vanilla midfield (not much attacking intent) with Firmino playing the creative central attacking role. This season, our midfielders are playing with more ambition (higher up, more purpose) - especially when Keita and/or Shaqiri play (Wijnaldum and Milner have also shown glimpses of being more attack minded). This has changed the dynamic of the front three - especially Firmino's role.
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Old 13-11-18, 12:06 PM   #1069
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Just reading there sides that have ran the further so far this season. Arsenal have ran 5km more than any other side in league, Emery has really changed things around. Not a surprise that we are 7th this season with the change in style. Mancs are 16th spot as regards ground covered & City dominate possession so didn't expect them to be up there.

Top 10:

1)Arsenal
2)Spurs
3)Everton
4)Bournemouth
5)Chelsea
6)Newcastle
7)Liverpool
8)Palace
9)Huddersfield
10)City
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Old 13-11-18, 12:33 PM   #1070
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Perhaps we'll see some rewards later in the season. And i wonder, if like us in past seasons, Arsenal run out of steam.
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Old 13-11-18, 12:39 PM   #1071
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Just reading there sides that have ran the further so far this season. Arsenal have ran 5km more than any other side in league, Emery has really changed things around. Not a surprise that we are 7th this season with the change in style. Mancs are 16th spot as regards ground covered & City dominate possession so didn't expect them to be up there.

Top 10:

1)Arsenal
2)Spurs
3)Everton
4)Bournemouth
5)Chelsea
6)Newcastle
7)Liverpool
8)Palace
9)Huddersfield
10)City
This can be misleading as the off the ball running when you dominate possession also adds up. I suspect against weaker teams they Ďrestí on the ball but against bigger teams they run a lot even when they dominate possession.
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Old 14-11-18, 08:22 AM   #1072
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This can be misleading as the off the ball running when you dominate possession also adds up. I suspect against weaker teams they Ďrestí on the ball but against bigger teams they run a lot even when they dominate possession.
Read an article before end of last season that City have more possession than the last 12 prem league champions, something like 12% than next place Chelsea (09-10). Don't think their passing is as good as last season but it's up there and their are so clinical. I think they have such a good squad too that when they rest players it doesn't really compromise the team. Even KDB has been out all season and you wouldn't even notice.

In short, it's very annoying.
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Old 14-11-18, 11:06 AM   #1073
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I'm banking on them peaking too early and not being able to sustain their current levels.
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Old 14-11-18, 11:41 AM   #1074
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Read an article before end of last season that City have more possession than the last 12 prem league champions, something like 12% than next place Chelsea (09-10). Don't think their passing is as good as last season but it's up there and their are so clinical. I think they have such a good squad too that when they rest players it doesn't really compromise the team. Even KDB has been out all season and you wouldn't even notice.

In short, it's very annoying.
Results wise we have been amazing in the league so far this season and fucking City are still ahead of us. We are on course to get circa 90 points and just our luck that we are against financial dopers City and their ridiculous squad.

I said it on another post that they are skewing all accepted norms and we have fans who are moaning because we are behind them. Itís mental and hard to know what more can do - if we maintain this level of result and come second then it is absolutely a massive step forward but will also feel like an almighty kick in the balls.
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Old 14-11-18, 11:45 AM   #1075
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Results wise we have been amazing in the league so far this season and fucking City are still ahead of us. We are on course to get circa 90 points and just our luck that we are against financial dopers City and their ridiculous squad.

I said it on another post that they are skewing all accepted norms and we have fans who are moaning because we are behind them. Itís mental and hard to know what more can do - if we maintain this level of result and come second then it is absolutely a massive step forward but will also feel like an almighty kick in the balls.




And that is a City team who are behind on points to where they were after the same amount of games last season. Just shows how strong a team they are when them performing slightly below last season is still enough to see them stay ahead of record breaking PL starts for other teams.
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Old 14-11-18, 02:26 PM   #1076
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Results wise we have been amazing in the league so far this season and fucking City are still ahead of us. We are on course to get circa 90 points and just our luck that we are against financial dopers City and their ridiculous squad.

I said it on another post that they are skewing all accepted norms and we have fans who are moaning because we are behind them. It’s mental and hard to know what more can do - if we maintain this level of result and come second then it is absolutely a massive step forward but will also feel like an almighty kick in the balls.


What I would say is that we have not been playing well and they have been dismantling sides and we are still within touching distance, we are hard to beat. We need to get our front 3 lads firing asap & sorting that midfield out. Rotation is going to have to stop at some point and get some continuity in that midfield. I think Henderson coming back into the side is a good thing & of course playing Shaqiri to get more of the ball to the forward line. Really hoping Keita starts to show why we paid so much for him. The defence has carried us somewhat, it's time for the forward lads to start kicking in.
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Old 14-11-18, 05:34 PM   #1077
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What I would say is that we have not been playing well and they have been dismantling sides and we are still within touching distance, we are hard to beat. We need to get our front 3 lads firing asap & sorting that midfield out. Rotation is going to have to stop at some point and get some continuity in that midfield. I think Henderson coming back into the side is a good thing & of course playing Shaqiri to get more of the ball to the forward line. Really hoping Keita starts to show why we paid so much for him. The defence has carried us somewhat, it's time for the forward lads to start kicking in.
Clearly saving themselves for the second half of the season
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Old 18-11-18, 10:33 PM   #1078
red g
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Sounds like the cube is having a great game tonight. the Swiss stuffing the Belgians 5-2
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Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

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Old 18-11-18, 11:32 PM   #1079
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Just watched the highlights, and he was excellent. Peach of a cross for their 4th and aad no-look ball down the line in the build up to the 5th.
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Old 19-11-18, 12:33 AM   #1080
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He had a superb game, a literal box of tricks!
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