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Old 20-12-21, 12:26 AM   #1041
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The bent ref can just put his finger in his ear and then blame some other cunt.
If VAR stays then make the communications live/public, then the anonymous twats become answerable.
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Old 20-12-21, 12:41 AM   #1042
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Chris Kavanagh was on VAR. Fairly sure he is either from Manchester, affiliated to their local FA, or both
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Old 20-12-21, 10:15 AM   #1043
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Ref's VARing Ref's..... It's a closed shop & they are looking put for each other.

They need to change it up & get 1;former players to do it or 2; train up a team solely for VAR.
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Old 20-12-21, 10:16 AM   #1044
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This might be naive on my part but I don't think the VAR officials are corrupt or biased. I think that the rules around it's use are complicated and as a result applied inconsistently by people who are crap at their job, don't know the game and have no accountability.

VAR in it's current guise isn't fit for purpose. I have said for a while it would be beneficial for everyone if decisions were properly communicated, fans, players and everyone involved would understand the decisions and there would be some accountability as people could call into question the rationale for decisionsand this could be used to improve the system and training of officials.

Robertson rightly has to serve his ban, we as a club have to accept the result, but Tierney and Kavanagh don't face any consequences for the shit show that was their performance.
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Old 20-12-21, 10:44 AM   #1045
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The definition of 'clear and obvious' seems to be the problem to me. Either a decision is right or wrong? Take the Jota penalty incident - it's a penalty and he didn't give one - isn't that clear and obvious?
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Old 20-12-21, 10:52 AM   #1046
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Same with the Kane incident, clear and obvious that it was red but VAR chose not to intervene (but did with Robbos yellow)

For professionals, itís difficult to understand how they can be so utterly incompetent.

Iíd love hear an explanation from them, we wonít though as there is no accountability.
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Old 20-12-21, 10:53 AM   #1047
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Same with the Kane incident, clear and obvious that it was red but VAR chose not to intervene (but did with Robbos yellow)

For professionals, itís difficult to understand how they can be so utterly incompetent.

Iíd love hear an explanation from them, we wonít though as there is no accountability.
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Old 20-12-21, 10:53 AM   #1048
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They’ve got it totally arse about face. There’s one ref with restricted angles, who only sees things once in real time, who has to run around to keep up with play, who gets lobbied by players in his ear and the crowd. There’s another with none of those issues who has the added benefit of uninterrupted concentration, a top down view of the game, multiple camera angles, slow motion and an augmented reality system. Let’s design a process that gives the former all of the control and restricts what the latter is allowed to be involved in
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Old 20-12-21, 12:09 PM   #1049
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It should not be 'clear & obvious', it should be 'Ref i think you have missed that'.

That way if there is a competent VAR official, he tells the ref what he missed, rather than thinking 'well i can't really overrule that as it is not 'clear & obvious'.

Still wouldn't be a guarantee that Kavanagh would have stopped smokin his pot to change the decision yesterday mind...
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Old 20-12-21, 12:18 PM   #1050
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It should be VAR says “that was a pen” and the ref (aka professional whistle blower) says “okay boss”.
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Old 20-12-21, 12:32 PM   #1051
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The problem is VAR has never been about getting the right decisions if it were we wouldn't have this version of it. It's about backing up the on field ref's decision that's why there is such limited scope for changing decisions.

I don't know the stats on this but I feel it's about ensuring the worst 1% of wrong decisions don't stand the other 99% of wrong decisions are deemed subjective.

Until VAR is about getting decisions right the shit show will continue.
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Old 20-12-21, 12:59 PM   #1052
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It should be VAR says “that was a pen” and the ref (aka professional whistle blower) says “okay boss”.
Sticking with the onfield decision is fine when there are no visibly clear outcomes.

Again, taking Rugby as an example, it often happens exactly as you say. VAR (TMO) interiors the game and there is a conversation that we all get to listen to.

The TMO can strongly advise the ref as to what he should be looking at on screen. They sometimes have a professional conversation but typically land on the correct outcome collectively.

The words ‘what I am seeing is’ and ‘are we in agreement’ are often used.

Stop the clock whilst all this happens and take your time and I really don’t see why this is such hard work. Maybe because it is a bigger sport but there definitely feels like an outside bias in football, even in Rugby because of the professional handling of a decision, even when it goes against your team, it doesn’t tend to feel so bad. And by bad I mean corrupt.

(I reckon I’ve posted a variation of this about ten times in this thread )
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Old 20-12-21, 01:02 PM   #1053
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The problem is VAR has never been about getting the right decisions if it were we wouldn't have this version of it. It's about backing up the on field ref's decision that's why there is such limited scope for changing decisions.

I don't know the stats on this but I feel it's about ensuring the worst 1% of wrong decisions don't stand the other 99% of wrong decisions are deemed subjective.

Until VAR is about getting decisions right the shit show will continue.


It comes across as if they are just playing at it. There is such an obvious way to mitigate error.

Iíve genuinely no idea why the Harry Kane tackle wasnít reviewed other than protection of a national institution.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:09 PM   #1054
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Sticking with the onfield decision is fine when there are no visibly clear outcomes.

Again, taking Rugby as an example, it often happens exactly as you say. VAR (TMO) interiors the game and there is a conversation that we all get to listen to.

The TMO can strongly advise the ref as to what he should be looking at on screen. They sometimes have a professional conversation but typically land on the correct outcome collectively.

The words Ďwhat I am seeing isí and Ďare we in agreementí are often used.

Stop the clock whilst all this happens and take your time and I really donít see why this is such hard work. Maybe because it is a bigger sport but there definitely feels like an outside bias in football, even in Rugby because of the professional handling of a decision, even when it goes against your team, it doesnít tend to feel so bad. And by bad I mean corrupt.

(I reckon Iíve posted a variation of this about ten times in this thread )
I just canít fathom the need for one professional referee to ask another professional referee to look at a screen and decide. A professional referee has already looked at the replays, let him call it.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:15 PM   #1055
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I just can’t fathom the need for one professional referee to ask another professional referee to look at a screen and decide. A professional referee has already looked at the replays, let him call it.
Yep. It’s only incompetence. Massively over complicating a pretty simple system. They should be working as a team to get to the best decision and that (as you say) does not give the infield presence final say. What’s the point otherwise.

Clarity (live audio) would help as it takes any crowd pressure out of the equation. Just being good at your job would also do this.

For the Kane one it would be (TMO) “we are seeing a wild, high out of control challenge that misses the ball, we think red card unless you can say otherwise”.

Then it’s up to the ref to agree or shine a light on his POV.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:19 PM   #1056
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The system does have to cater for some marginal calls.

The problem is it is still getting absolute howlers wrong.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:19 PM   #1057
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In an odd why i think the refs would prefer that, as it gets them out of the controversial decision. Kane's yesterday for example could have been an VAR not having to make the decision with 30k people screaming at you because you sent a saint off..... it would be a decision purely given by the VAR numpty
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Old 20-12-21, 01:25 PM   #1058
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It has to offer a layer of protection. That said they never even looked at the Kane one!

I actually think Robbos was a red as well, it is hard to argue a case that it wasnt. Or at least it would be if it was not for Kane not getting carded, which set a precedent (that wasnt followed) and a tone for the game.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:30 PM   #1059
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In an odd why i think the refs would prefer that, as it gets them out of the controversial decision. Kane's yesterday for example could have been an VAR not having to make the decision with 30k people screaming at you because you sent a saint off..... it would be a decision purely given by the VAR numpty
Itís ego, they want to be centre stage and king of the pitch.
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Old 20-12-21, 01:41 PM   #1060
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It should not be 'clear & obvious', it should be 'Ref i think you have missed that'.

That way if there is a competent VAR official, he tells the ref what he missed, rather than thinking 'well i can't really overrule that as it is not 'clear & obvious'.

Still wouldn't be a guarantee that Kavanagh would have stopped smokin his pot to change the decision yesterday mind...
It's such as ridiculous ruling. VAR ref either agrees or disagrees with the decision. If he disagrees, then he should either tell the ref he was wrong or get him to check the monitor. In what universe was it deemed a good idea to rule that the var ref can review a decision, see it's a mistake, but not be allowed to intervene if he can understand why the ref made the mistake.

Who f*cking signed up to this shit?
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Old 20-12-21, 06:40 PM   #1061
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Alan Shearer: Standard of refereeing is 'not acceptable'

Alan Shearer urges head of referees Mike Riley to "take responsibility" for the level of refereeing decisions in recent Premier League matches.

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp was unhappy that Tottenham forward Harry Kane was not shown a red card for a lunge on Andrew Robertson, while Robertson himself was dismissed after VAR check for a challenge in the second half of the teams' 2-2 draw.

Shearer is also frustrated by the "terrible" decision not to award Newcastle a penalty in their 4-0 defeat by Man City.
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Old 20-12-21, 08:15 PM   #1062
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This might be naive on my part but I don't think the VAR officials are corrupt or biased. I think that the rules around it's use are complicated and as a result applied inconsistently by people who are crap at their job, don't know the game and have no accountability.

VAR in it's current guise isn't fit for purpose. I have said for a while it would be beneficial for everyone if decisions were properly communicated, fans, players and everyone involved would understand the decisions and there would be some accountability as people could call into question the rationale for decisionsand this could be used to improve the system and training of officials.

Robertson rightly has to serve his ban, we as a club have to accept the result, but Tierney and Kavanagh don't face any consequences for the shit show that was their performance.


There's no corruption, that's tin hat stuff
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Old 20-12-21, 08:18 PM   #1063
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I guess it depends what you mean by corruption. I don’t think anyone can seriously think that there’s a plan to benefit one team over another via referees, but the relevant authorities (including the PGMOL) releasing bullshit statements or changing guidance on the fly to cover up errors by refs and VARs is happening, and I’d say that might well fall under the definition of corruption.
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Old 20-12-21, 08:37 PM   #1064
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There's no corruption, that's tin hat stuff
As an organised plan across the organisation, or with individual refs?
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Old 20-12-21, 08:52 PM   #1065
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I guess it depends what you mean by corruption. I donít think anyone can seriously think that thereís a plan to benefit one team over another via referees, but the relevant authorities (including the PGMOL) releasing bullshit statements or changing guidance on the fly to cover up errors by refs and VARs is happening, and Iíd say that might well fall under the definition of corruption.


That and the protection of Kane, definitely his status helped him yesterday. Pretty much every other player in the league gets a red for that.
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Old 20-12-21, 08:59 PM   #1066
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As an organised plan across the organisation, or with individual refs?
Both
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Old 20-12-21, 09:01 PM   #1067
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Both
Oh. As for individual refs I think you'd have to be stark raving mad not to think some have been bribed. We've seen it across other sports. We've seen it across other leagues in football so to think the Premier League is immune to the reach of than criminality is baffling to me.
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Old 20-12-21, 09:31 PM   #1068
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Oh. As for individual refs I think you'd have to be stark raving mad not to think some have been bribed. We've seen it across other sports. We've seen it across other leagues in football so to think the Premier League is immune to the reach of than criminality is baffling to me.
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Old 20-12-21, 09:45 PM   #1069
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I guess it depends what you mean by corruption. I donít think anyone can seriously think that thereís a plan to benefit one team over another via referees, but the relevant authorities (including the PGMOL) releasing bullshit statements or changing guidance on the fly to cover up errors by refs and VARs is happening, and Iíd say that might well fall under the definition of corruption.
This for me is a grey area, I agree that coming out with statements on individual cases where the ref has clearly got it wrong is dodgy. Also changing the rules part way though a season is dodgy and shouldn't be happening. But the 'Monday morning meeting saying we are giving too many pens for minimal contact is adapting guidance and trying to get consistency I think is OK. The problem with it is then it depends on the lucky of the fixture list or if you are the poor sods whose high profile mistake causes change in guidance, where everyone else benefits from it but you have already dropped those points...
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Old 20-12-21, 11:46 PM   #1070
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Remember when Mascherano was the one and only person sent off as part of the "respect" campaign for telling the ref to fuck off.
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Old 21-12-21, 12:43 AM   #1071
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Liverpool's Andy Robertson is 'lucky to be walking' - Mark Clattenburg

Former Premier League referee Mark Clattenburg has criticised the officiating in Tottenham's draw with Liverpool on Sunday, saying Andy Robertson is "lucky to be walking".

The left-back was on the end of a strong studs-up tackle from Harry Kane.

Referee Paul Tierney only gave a yellow card and Robertson was later shown a straight red for a foul on Emerson Royal that was reviewed by VAR.

"I think Kane's tackle's worse than Robertson's," said Clattenburg.

BBC Sport were told one of the mitigating factors behind the decision not to dismiss Kane for his first-half challenge was the fact Robertson lifted his standing leg out of the way of the Spurs captain's tackle.

"To hear that Robertson has to have his leg planted alarms me, because if he does that he's not walking this Christmas," Clattenburg told the Monday Night Club on BBC Radio 5 Live.

"If you don't believe this is a clear and obvious error about Kane, you're not doing your job correctly.

"I think we, as referees, are sometimes guilty of knowing the laws of the game but we don't understand the game.

"VAR cannot get this wrong. Referees can, because they have a split second. VAR have all the angles, he's got all the slow-motion, he can see the point of contact.

"If they are saying that his (Robertson's) leg has to be planted, which is a new one to me, if the leg was high, the studs were showing, it's reckless, he's lunged. For me, he's endangered the safety of the opponent.

"Robbo is lucky today that he's still walking. We should understand footballers more because he's not going to leave his leg there, why should he? He's not going to want his leg broken and his career put in doubt."
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Old 21-12-21, 07:29 AM   #1072
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Remember when Mascherano was the one and only person sent off as part of the "respect" campaign for telling the ref to fuck off.
Let's not forget this either...




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Old 21-12-21, 07:34 AM   #1073
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Also, didn't the ref have a shocker during a 2-2 with Spurs a few years ago, giving two pate pens plus a few other dodgy decisions?
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Old 21-12-21, 12:26 PM   #1074
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Also, didn't the ref have a shocker during a 2-2 with Spurs a few years ago, giving two pate pens plus a few other dodgy decisions?
Had to refresh my memory.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...tottenham-2018

Kane offside, then dives for first pen. Lamela then jumps into Virg, who is pulling out of the challenge, to get the 2nd.
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Old 21-12-21, 12:30 PM   #1075
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The famous Jon Moss, i don't know if he touched him; fuck it i will give the penalty anyway
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Old 21-12-21, 12:39 PM   #1076
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The famous Jon Moss, i don't know if he touched him; fuck it i will give the penalty anyway
Atkinson as 4th official, what a team. No wonder Klopp got sent off.
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Old 09-01-22, 03:46 PM   #1077
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Rules being made up off the cuff again in Leeds game?? How is Bowen not interfering in that goal???

Shambles
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Old 09-01-22, 04:08 PM   #1078
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Bizarre
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