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Old 05-11-06, 02:25 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJS
That's an amazing coincidence, because i encountered the same feeling of confusion after your previous post.

Come on DJ, it's Saturday night/Sunday morning like posts
In others words: all over the show
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Old 05-11-06, 02:26 AM   #82
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[QUOTE=DJS]Very selective examples. Either Chelsea or Man Utd, who you acknowledge are the biggest spenders, are going to win the title...
QUOTE]

Are they? Arsenal don't look too shabby lately. And United at least overspent on two English players who were pretty much sure things, and at least had youth on their side (ie Ferdinand & Shrek)... how is bringing up Ballack & Shevchenko 'selective'? They were brought in at the same time as we got the group of players you're complaining about, and have had a similar impact. In fact no, because that does Dirk Kuyt a serious disservice - at £10m he's looked three times the player Shevchenko is, which is strange considering the latter cost three times the money.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:48 AM   #83
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Well each to their own, but i personally think that Sheva and Ballack are unquestionably brilliant and doubting them isnt something a knowledgable fan does.

As for the initial point, yes United or Chelsea will win the league.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:56 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by REDSCOUSER
Gonzos shiner was done by a senior player at the club, he was not injured but more like punished. The club did not want the news to go public so they fabricated it that he's injured .
?????????
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Old 05-11-06, 03:01 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by DJS
Well each to their own, but i personally think that Sheva and Ballack are unquestionably brilliant and doubting them isnt something a knowledgable fan does.

As for the initial point, yes United or Chelsea will win the league.
Am I the only one that thinks calling two 30-year olds who were brought over for huge money and have patently not lived up to their names so far 'unquestionably brilliant' is a bit silly? They might be brilliant but there's certainly a few questions, even more so given the £££ involved. If Pennant turns out to be shit it's £6.5m and £20k a wk down the drain, if Shevchenko is a bust then it's £30m and £130k. But hey, I'm evidently not that 'knowledgable' (weren't you taking the piss out of someone's English a bit earlier?)
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Old 05-11-06, 03:19 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Marky18
Come on lad, reveal all here or at least PM me
My money's on Carra, he'd be the type to have a go if he sees a player isn't pulling his weight and rightly fucking so, just a hunch.
Let me make one thing clear mate, I have no sources BUT yours truely used to work at "it' in the game" for two years on the footy game they make. Anyways, made good friends there one of which works in the Marketing dept.
He was in Liverpool last week and was told by a staff member at Melwood that there has been an incident with Gonzalez. He was not told anything else. He is not a POOL fan or any club for that matter, he just told me cos he knew how mad as Reds about our club.
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Old 05-11-06, 03:19 AM   #87
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Was it divine intervention

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Old 05-11-06, 03:20 AM   #88
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If you dont think Ballack and Shevchenko are brilliant footballers, then i would indeed question your footballing knowledge.

And no, i wasnt taking the piss out of someone's english earlier.
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Old 05-11-06, 04:53 AM   #89
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Ok, so he hasnt impressed me alot since signing, but I've seen what he's capable of. He's got pace and a great left foot. He works his socks of tracking back. Why this sudden negativity? He's 21 and from Chile. He may need some time to settle down. Lets calm down and give him some space and time to settle in.
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Old 05-11-06, 05:24 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Jan-Erik

Why this sudden negativity?
Because....


Quote:
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Ok, so he hasnt impressed me alot since signing
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Old 05-11-06, 05:55 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by anfieldanfield
I've seen him play live Chris and he hasn't particulary impressed me then, either.
You haven't impressed me with your comments either.
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Old 05-11-06, 06:54 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by anfieldanfield
You're spot on.

Far too many 'possibilities' have been purchased under Rafa's reign and not enough first team regulars.

xabi was a 'possibility', Kuyt was a 'possibilty', Garcia was a 'possibility', Reina, Agger etc etc.......everybody overlooks these guys in their arguments.

Your full of shite mate

They were all our most expensive signings (Moro was left out...but who would've thought he would be so shit), IMO they have all been very good/ fantastic so far.
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Old 05-11-06, 07:00 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by anfieldanfield
Rafa's had over 60m to spend, he's wasted far too much of it on 'squad players' and 'backup'.

Last summer he brought in Aurelio cost nothing, Gonzalez cost 2mill, and i bet you weren't complaining when we bought him for that, Pennant jury is out and Bellamy.he has done nothing wrong so far, and for 6mill looks a good buy

I would've kept Cisse and Hamann and bid 15m for ONE world class attacking winger like Vicente, Jaoquin or maybe even the lad Lennon.

Our squad is already far, far too big.
Vicente is trying his best to impersonate Kewell lately, and Joaquin is hyped up beyond belief.
plus they would take a season to settle in the prem...i would guarantee it.
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Old 05-11-06, 07:03 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by anfieldanfield
Pennant ? Back up for 7m. And he's a criminal. Wow.

Gonzalez ? Jury is still well and truly out on this one.

Bellamy ? Any better than Cisse, I dont think so.
thats a cheap shot (i wouldnt expect anything else from you really)

He didnt cost 7mill either, it was 3.5 + performance based bonuses which get it up to 7mill. At the moment it looks like it will only be 3.5-4mill spent.
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Old 05-11-06, 11:14 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by DJS
If you dont think Ballack and Shevchenko are brilliant footballers, then i would indeed question your footballing knowledge.

And no, i wasnt taking the piss out of someone's english earlier.
But Veron was also a fabulous player and still was a waste of money for both Man Utd and Chelsea. So really there can be a point to arguing that they might not be good signings despite being great players.
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Old 05-11-06, 12:40 PM   #96
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Well each to their own, but i personally think that Sheva and Ballack are unquestionably brilliant and doubting them isnt something a knowledgable fan does.

As for the initial point, yes United or Chelsea will win the league.
What a silly comment.

Morrientes was and you can argue is again brilliant.

He came to us and was pants, why you not doubt Sheva any more than Morrientes? They came from a different league, and both suffered early on, anf there's still no evidence Shevchenko will even cut it in our league.

For my money Kuyt has had a better start then Shevchenko and he cost a third of what he cost.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:40 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Harveybirdman
thats a cheap shot (i wouldnt expect anything else from you really)

He didnt cost 7mill either, it was 3.5 + performance based bonuses which get it up to 7mill. At the moment it looks like it will only be 3.5-4mill spent.
We'll pay the full £7m.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:41 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by dww
But Veron was also a fabulous player and still was a waste of money for both Man Utd and Chelsea. So really there can be a point to arguing that they might not be good signings despite being great players.
Of course there can, but i dont think that applies to Shevchenko and Ballack.

Wishful thinking at best, i'm afraid.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:42 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Morphorino
What a silly comment.

Morrientes was and you can argue is again brilliant.

He came to us and was pants, why you not doubt Sheva any more than Morrientes? They came from a different league, and both suffered early on, anf there's still no evidence Shevchenko will even cut it in our league.

For my money Kuyt has had a better start then Shevchenko and he cost a third of what he cost.
You're comparing Morientes and Shevchenko?

And MINE was a silly comment?
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Old 05-11-06, 02:45 PM   #100
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I know how Gonzalez got his black eye - and much much more. Just pay me £30 and I'll make up some bullshit-- errr I mean tell you.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:45 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by DJS
We'll pay the full £7m.

if we pay the full amount then he would of performed....so i would be happy with that
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Old 05-11-06, 02:47 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Harveybirdman
if we pay the full amount then he would of performed....so i would be happy with that
Not really. How do you definie 'performed' ?

The contract doesnt say "£7m if he is good"....

It'll be appearance related, it'll be related to LFC qualifying for CL etc.

He's been pants so far, and keeps being picked, so there's the appearances.
We'll qualify for CL regardless of how good or bad he is.

So us paying the full fee wont necessarily mean he's been good.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by DJS
Not really. How do you definie 'performed' ?

The contract doesnt say "£7m if he is good"....

It'll be appearance related, it'll be related to LFC qualifying for CL etc.

He's been pants so far, and keeps being picked, so there's the appearances.
We'll qualify for CL regardless of how good or bad he is.

So us paying the full fee wont necessarily mean he's been good.

im not looking to get into a debate with you mate. I doubt the money would be based just on the 'team' performance. Id think it would be on appearances, maybe if he gets an England cap, goals, assists etc....
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Old 05-11-06, 02:55 PM   #104
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im not looking to get into a debate with you mate. I doubt the money would be based just on the 'team' performance. Id think it would be on appearances, maybe if he gets an England cap, goals, assists etc....
It's a debating forum isnt it?

Fees are often based on how the plays 'helps' the club progress. So there will be something in there about CL qualification, no doubt about that.

Appearances, as i've said, he'll get regardless. And i wouldnt be surprised if that tool McLaren picks him for england, so that'll sort that one out.

You might be surprised to realise how little of it is probably to do with goals and assists for LFC.
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Old 05-11-06, 02:59 PM   #105
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It's a debating forum isnt it?

Fees are often based on how the plays 'helps' the club progress. So there will be something in there about CL qualification, no doubt about that.

Appearances, as i've said, he'll get regardless. And i wouldnt be surprised if that tool McLaren picks him for england, so that'll sort that one out.

You might be surprised to realise how little of it is probably to do with goals and assists for LFC.

only if you choose to

in this instance im choosing NOT to

Ive had enough of this Pennant crap, he has showed glimpses, good and bad. He hasn't been given a chance by the majority of fans IMO.

I am willing to give the lad a chance.....but he has alot of work to do (the sub appearance against Utd was horrible, he hid from the ball)
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Old 05-11-06, 03:10 PM   #106
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You're comparing Morientes and Shevchenko?

And MINE was a silly comment?
I'm comparing the situation as both are quality footballers let's not Forget Morrientes was one of the best in the world for a time. Both came from foreign leagues to ply their trade here. Both had trouble in the beginning, Morrientes ultimately failed, and it remains to be seen if Shevchenko will cut it in our league.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with that comparison.
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Old 05-11-06, 03:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Morphorino
I'm comparing the situation as both are quality footballers let's not Forget Morrientes was one of the best in the world for a time. Both came from foreign leagues to ply their trade here. Both had trouble in the beginning, Morrientes ultimately failed, and it remains to be seen if Shevchenko will cut it in our league.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with that comparison.
The problem is, Morientes was nowhere near his peak when he joined us.

Hence, i find it a silly comparison.
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Old 05-11-06, 03:20 PM   #108
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The problem is, Morientes was nowhere near his peak when he joined us.

Hence, i find it a silly comparison.
I'm sorry remind me how many goals he's got for Valencia now, is it 9? and how many for Shevchenko, 2?

He might not be at his peak, but he's just gone to a new team and scored 9 goals, that suggests to me that his best days aren't quite behind him yet.

I'd be willing to bet Shevchenko is going to have the same problems Morro did in our league.

So I think it's quite conceivable to doubt him, until he proves otherwise. He might be the best striker in the world when he's playing in Italy, but it means fuck all here.
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Old 05-11-06, 03:25 PM   #109
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I know how Gonzalez got his black eye - and much much more. Just pay me £30 and I'll make up some bullshit-- errr I mean tell you.
Dunk thanks for the laugh
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Old 05-11-06, 03:25 PM   #110
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Tell me something mate.

Do you consider it too early (10 games, is it?) to write off LFC's season, after such a poor start?
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Old 05-11-06, 04:05 PM   #111
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Tell me something mate.

Do you consider it too early (10 games, is it?) to write off LFC's season, after such a poor start?
Not sure if this is aimed at me, seeing as you asked me yesterday, but no I haven't written the season off completely, however I must add I never had visions of us winning the prem this season, I thought a second place finish would be acceptable this season.

if your making some kind of comparison between writing our league chances off and writing Shevchenko off, then that really is a silly.

I haven't written Shevchenko off at all, but he needs to prove himself all over again here, and at the moment he hasn't. His reputation means nothing at the moment because he hasn't done anything to back it up, and in the games I've seen with him playing for Chelsea he's looks poor. Now that could be down to a number of things of course and we'll see at the end of the season. My gut feling is that he will be another Morientes, but of course he could score a hat trick today, so we'll have to wait and see.

That answer your question?
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Old 05-11-06, 04:17 PM   #112
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I see what you're saying, but you seem to be of the opinion that he WONT prove himself, whereas i disagree.
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Old 05-11-06, 04:20 PM   #113
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I know how Gonzalez got his black eye - and much much more. Just pay me £30 and I'll make up some bullshit-- errr I mean tell you.
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Old 05-11-06, 04:27 PM   #114
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I see what you're saying, but you seem to be of the opinion that he WONT prove himself, whereas i disagree.
Well going on his performances so far he's no better than Morrientes, but the Golden boot isn't handed out in November. I just didn't think he was suited to our league when he signed for Chelsea, and he'll find it doubly hard in a team full of 'superstars' anyway.

Point is, I don't let what a player has done in another influence my opinion of them, until I've seen them play in our league.
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Old 05-11-06, 04:43 PM   #115
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That's fair enough, but i still think he'll do the business eventually.

To be fair, if you took your comparison to most neutrals, they'd probably think you were joking.
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Old 05-11-06, 05:03 PM   #116
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That's fair enough, but i still think he'll do the business eventually.

To be fair, if you took your comparison to most neutrals, they'd probably think you were joking.
Don't see why it's a fair comparison.

How bout if I compare him to Cisse then?
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Old 05-11-06, 05:04 PM   #117
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If you really cant see that Shevchenko is one of the world's top 5 strikers, while Morientes and Cisse arent, then there's little more to discuss.
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Old 05-11-06, 05:05 PM   #118
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If you really cant see that Shevchenko is one of the world's top 5 strikers, while Morientes and Cisse arent, then there's little more to discuss.
I'm comparing the situation, not the quality of the striker, how is that unclear?
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Old 05-11-06, 05:07 PM   #119
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You argued earlier, in response to me calling Shevchenko brilliant, that Moro is/could still be brilliant. That implied that you're comparing the two players themselves, in terms of quality. I personally think there's no comparison, from that point of view, to make.
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Old 05-11-06, 05:18 PM   #120
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You argued earlier, in response to me calling Shevchenko brilliant, that Moro is/could still be brilliant. That implied that you're comparing the two players themselves, in terms of quality. I personally think there's no comparison, from that point of view, to make.
No that's you choosing what you want to see

I said that they both had very similar situations, and both were good footballers, as a way of providing a comparison between two good footballers coming from different leagues to the English Prem.

I'm not saying Shevchenko will fail because Morro did, I'm saying that there's a possibility that he won't make it big over here. Players with big reputations don't always make it here you know, wther they have a 30mil price tag or not.

Why don't you read the posts again before trying to pick up on something, that isn't there to be picked up on.
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